Dacheat Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) So yeah, the title pretty much sums up my question. I don't really care that much about Myrrh, and removing her from the equation gives me 32 characters to work with. EDIT: Oh yeah, having the supports be good is nice, but it's not my top priority. Here's a list of all 4-character support rings to make your searching easier: [spoiler=Support Rings]Amelia Franz, Gilliam, Neimi Garcia, Neimi, Ross Artur Cormag, Joshua, Natasha Gerik, Joshua, Tethys Joshua, Marisa, Tethys Colm Gilliam, Moulder, Neimi Kyle, Moulder, Syrene Marisa, Rennac, Tethys Cormag Artur, Joshua, Natasha Duessel, Ephraim, Tana Duessel, Knoll, Natasha Eirika, Seth, Tana Franz, Natasha, Seth Dozla Ephraim, L'Arachel, Myrrh Ewan, Garcia, Ross Ewan, Myrrh, Saleh Ewan, Rennac, Tethys Duessel Cormag, Ephraim, Tana Cormag, Knoll, Natasha Eirika Cormag, Seth, Tana Ephraim, Forde, Kyle Ephraim, Forde, L'Arachel Ephraim, Forde, Tana Ephraim, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Innes, Tana Ephraim, L'Arachel, Tana Ephraim, Myrrh, Saleh Forde, Franz, Seth Forde, Innes, Vanessa Gerik, Innes, Saleh Innes, L'Arachel, Tana Innes, Joshua, L'Arachel Ephraim Cormag, Duessel, Tana Dozla, L'Arachel, Myrrh Eirika, Forde, Kyle Eirika, Forde, L'Arachel Eirika, Forde, Tana Eirika, Innes, L'Arachel Eirika, Innes, Tana Eirika, L'Arachel, Tana Eirika, Myrrh, Saleh Innes, L'Arachel, Tana Kyle, Syrene, Tana Ewan Dozla, Garcia, Ross Dozla, Myrrh, Saleh Dozla, Rennac, Tethys Gerik, Ross, Saleh Gerik, Ross, Tethys Gerik, Saleh, Tethys Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Kyle Eirika, Ephraim, L'Arachel Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Franz, Seth Eirika, Innes, Vanessa Kyle, Lute, Vanessa Kyle, Syrene, Vanessa Franz Amelia, Gilliam, Neimi Cormag, Natasha, Seth Eirika, Forde, Seth Garcia, Gilliam, Seth Garcia Amelia, Neimi, Ross Dozla, Ewan, Ross Franz, Gilliam, Seth Gerik Artur, Joshua, Tethys Eirika, Innes, Saleh Ewan, Ross, Saleh Ewan, Ross, Tethys Ewan, Saleh, Tethys Innes, Joshua, L'Arachel Innes, Joshua, Marisa Innes, Marisa, Tana Joshua, Marisa, Tethys Gilliam Amelia, Franz, Neimi Colm, Moulder, Neimi Franz, Garcia, Seth Moulder, Syrene, Vanessa Innes Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Forde, Vanessa Eirika, Gerik, Saleh Eirika, Joshua, L'Arachel Eirika, L'Arachel, Tana Ephraim, L'Arachel, Tana Gerik, Joshua, L'Arachel Gerik, Joshua, Marisa Gerik, Marisa, Tana Joshua, Marisa, Tana Syrene, Tana, Vanessa Joshua Artur, Cormag, Natasha Artur, Gerik, Tethys Artur, Marisa, Tethys Gerik, Innes, L'Arachel Gerik, Innes, Marisa Gerik, Marisa, Tethys Innes, Marisa, Tana Knoll Cormag, Duessel, Natasha Kyle Colm, Moulder, Syrene Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Ephraim, Syrene, Tana Forde, Lute, Vanessa Forde, Syrene, Vanessa Lute, Syrene, Vanessa L'Arachel Dozla, Ephraim, Myrrh Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Innes Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Innes, Joshua Eirika, Innes, Tana Ephraim, Innes, Tana Lute Forde, Kyle, Vanessa Kyle, Syrene, Vanessa Marisa Artur, Joshua, Tethys Colm, Rennac, Tethys Gerik, Innes, Joshua Gerik, Innes, Tana Innes, Joshua, Tana Moulder Colm, Gilliam, Neimi Colm, Kyle, Syrene Gilliam, Syrene, Vanessa Myrrh Dozla, Ephraim, L'Arachel Dozla, Ewan, Saleh Eirika, Ephraim, Saleh Natasha Artur, Cormag, Joshua Cormag, Duessel, Knoll Cormag, Franz, Seth Neimi Amelia, Franz, Gilliam Amelia, Garcia, Ross Colm, Gilliam, Moulder Rennac Colm, Marisa, Tethys Dozla, Ewan, Tethys Ross Amelia, Garcia, Neimi Dozla, Ewan, Garcia Ewan, Gerik, Saleh Ewan, Gerik, Tethys Saleh Dozla, Ewan, Myrrh Eirika, Ephraim, Gerik Eirika, Gerik, Innes Ewan, Gerik, Ross Ewan, Gerik, Tethys Seth Cormag, Eirika, Tana Cormag, Franz, Natasha Eirika, Forde, Franz Franz, Garcia, Gilliam Syrene Colm, Kyle, Moulder Ephraim, Kyle, Tana Forde, Kyle, Vanessa Gilliam, Moulder, Vanessa Innes, Tana, Vanessa Kyle, Lute, Vanessa Tana Cormag, Duessel, Ephraim Cormag, Eirika, Seth Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Innes Eirika, Ephraim, L'Arachel Eirika, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Kyle, Syrene Gerik, Innes, Marisa Innes, Joshua, Marisa Innes, Syrene, Vanessa Tethys Artur, Gerik, Joshua Artur, Merisa, Joshua Colm, Marisa, Rennac Dozla, Ewan, Rennac Ewan, Gerik, Ross Ewan, Gerik, Saleh Gerik, Joshua, Marisa Vanessa Eirika, Forde, Innes Forde, Kyle, Lute Forde, Kyle, Syrene Gilliam, Moulder, Syrene Innes, Syrene, Tana Kyle, Lute, Syrene The closest I've gotten so far is this: 1: Ephraim, Erika, Tana, L'Arachel 2: Cormag, Duessel, Knoll, Natasha 3: Colm, Marisa, Tethys, Rennac 4: Amelia, Franz, Gilliam, Neimi 5: Kyle, Lute, Syrene, Vanessa 6: Dozla, Ewan, Garcia, Ross Edited August 13, 2012 by Dacheat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I can't say for certain if this is possible. But let's try. I'll start by assuming this is possible The first step is Knoll. He only has one choice, so that must be in the solution. Further, let's eliminate every other chain that includes the 3 characters he was with, as they can't be part of the solution [spoiler="Chain 1 complete]1: Knoll, Cormag, Duessel, Natasha Amelia Franz, Gilliam, Neimi Garcia, Neimi, Ross Artur Gerik, Joshua, Tethys Joshua, Marisa, Tethys Colm Gilliam, Moulder, Neimi Kyle, Moulder, Syrene Marisa, Rennac, Tethys Dozla Ewan, Garcia, Ross Ewan, Rennac, Tethys Eirika Ephraim, Forde, Kyle Ephraim, Forde, L'Arachel Ephraim, Forde, Tana Ephraim, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Innes, Tana Ephraim, L'Arachel, Tana Forde, Franz, Seth Forde, Innes, Vanessa Gerik, Innes, Saleh Innes, L'Arachel, Tana Innes, Joshua, L'Arachel Ephraim Eirika, Forde, Kyle Eirika, Forde, L'Arachel Eirika, Forde, Tana Eirika, Innes, L'Arachel Eirika, Innes, Tana Eirika, L'Arachel, Tana Innes, L'Arachel, Tana Kyle, Syrene, Tana Ewan Dozla, Garcia, Ross Dozla, Rennac, Tethys Gerik, Ross, Saleh Gerik, Ross, Tethys Gerik, Saleh, Tethys Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Kyle Eirika, Ephraim, L'Arachel Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Franz, Seth Eirika, Innes, Vanessa Kyle, Lute, Vanessa Kyle, Syrene, Vanessa Franz Amelia, Gilliam, Neimi Eirika, Forde, Seth Garcia, Gilliam, Seth Garcia Amelia, Neimi, Ross Dozla, Ewan, Ross Franz, Gilliam, Seth Gerik Artur, Joshua, Tethys Eirika, Innes, Saleh Ewan, Ross, Saleh Ewan, Ross, Tethys Ewan, Saleh, Tethys Innes, Joshua, L'Arachel Innes, Joshua, Marisa Innes, Marisa, Tana Joshua, Marisa, Tethys Gilliam Amelia, Franz, Neimi Colm, Moulder, Neimi Franz, Garcia, Seth Moulder, Syrene, Vanessa Innes Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Forde, Vanessa Eirika, Gerik, Saleh Eirika, Joshua, L'Arachel Eirika, L'Arachel, Tana Ephraim, L'Arachel, Tana Gerik, Joshua, L'Arachel Gerik, Joshua, Marisa Gerik, Marisa, Tana Joshua, Marisa, Tana Syrene, Tana, Vanessa Joshua Artur, Gerik, Tethys Artur, Marisa, Tethys Gerik, Innes, L'Arachel Gerik, Innes, Marisa Gerik, Marisa, Tethys Innes, Marisa, Tana Kyle Colm, Moulder, Syrene Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Ephraim, Syrene, Tana Forde, Lute, Vanessa Forde, Syrene, Vanessa Lute, Syrene, Vanessa L'Arachel Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Innes Eirika, Ephraim, Tana Eirika, Innes, Joshua Eirika, Innes, Tana Ephraim, Innes, Tana Lute Forde, Kyle, Vanessa Kyle, Syrene, Vanessa Marisa Artur, Joshua, Tethys Colm, Rennac, Tethys Gerik, Innes, Joshua Gerik, Innes, Tana Innes, Joshua, Tana Moulder Colm, Gilliam, Neimi Colm, Kyle, Syrene Gilliam, Syrene, Vanessa Neimi Amelia, Franz, Gilliam Amelia, Garcia, Ross Colm, Gilliam, Moulder Rennac Colm, Marisa, Tethys Dozla, Ewan, Tethys Ross Amelia, Garcia, Neimi Dozla, Ewan, Garcia Ewan, Gerik, Saleh Ewan, Gerik, Tethys Saleh Eirika, Ephraim, Gerik Eirika, Gerik, Innes Ewan, Gerik, Ross Ewan, Gerik, Tethys Seth Eirika, Forde, Franz Franz, Garcia, Gilliam Syrene Colm, Kyle, Moulder Ephraim, Kyle, Tana Forde, Kyle, Vanessa Gilliam, Moulder, Vanessa Innes, Tana, Vanessa Kyle, Lute, Vanessa Tana Eirika, Ephraim, Forde Eirika, Ephraim, Innes Eirika, Ephraim, L'Arachel Eirika, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Innes, L'Arachel Ephraim, Kyle, Syrene Gerik, Innes, Marisa Innes, Joshua, Marisa Innes, Syrene, Vanessa Tethys Artur, Gerik, Joshua Artur, Merisa, Joshua Colm, Marisa, Rennac Dozla, Ewan, Rennac Ewan, Gerik, Ross Ewan, Gerik, Saleh Gerik, Joshua, Marisa Vanessa Eirika, Forde, Innes Forde, Kyle, Lute Forde, Kyle, Syrene Gilliam, Moulder, Syrene Innes, Syrene, Tana Kyle, Lute, Syrene I was hoping we'd be left with the same situation, a character with only one viable chain remaining. But we aren't, so let's make an observation (or two): A few characters only have a small number of possible chains, and many of them share a character. This means those two characters must be in the same chain. So we can eliminate any chains that only have one of those characters. These pairs are: Amelia-Neimi, Artur-Tethys, Dozla-Ewan, Lute-Vanessa, Rennac-Tethys, Saleh-Gerik, Seth-Franz. And we can stop here, as we reach a contradiction. For you see, we've observed that Artur and Tethys must be in the same chain, but so too much Rennac and Tethys, and no chain contains all of Artur, Tethys and Rennac. Hence, we have a contradiction, and thus this is not possible. ∎ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That was absolutely fucking brilliantly done, IET. Out of curiosity, is there any one character that one could sub for Myrrh to make it possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 It wasn't that brilliant, just simple logical deduction steps. Hmm... Well, even including Myrrh and her chains, the same Artur-Tethys-Rennac issue emerges, so maybe substituting a character will help. The only ones you could put in, though, are: 1) Knoll (which removes his single chain, and forces you to start Artur: Cormag, Joshua, Natasha (as any other Artur start includes Tethys, which can't work), or 2) Artur or 3) Tethys or 4) Rennac (each of which removes the contradiction, and lets you focus on the other pairs I said (some pairs might not be forced with Myrrh back in though - pay attention to that). It's few enough options that it could be considered, at least. Removing any other character won't stop that issue from occuring, so it has to be one of those four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacheat Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Nice work. I'm disappointed that it's not possible, but thanks a bunch for doing the legwork. Edited August 14, 2012 by Dacheat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHood217 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Though it's not possible, it should still help in making a support ring for the 12 people you're bringing into the final chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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