How to abuse this game?

[darkkfan]

So, I have heard that even though this game offers a world map and potentially unlimited exp, harder difficulties render this almost impossible to exploit. I wonder, then, if other established forms of cheating experience manipulation are possible. Some examples I can think of include arena abuse (I don't even know if there are arenas in this game), boss abuse (one of my personal favorites), RNG abuse (particularly with stat level ups), and enemy-attack abuse (not sure if this is the official term but I seem to recall someone getting a few levels off a longbow archer in 1-Endgame in FE10 just by letting a character be attacked relentlessly for 1 exp per turn).

Ok, I'll admit, only a few of these are actually effective in any fire emblem game. The last form of abuse I listed is admittedly not practical. But the other three forms, RNG, Boss, and Arena abuse all have served me well in the past. So I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on utilizing such techniques in this game. If I am forgetting anything, do not hesitate to point it out.

Edited September 1, 2012 by darkkfan

[Just call me AL]

Misleading description is misleading. But that's another story.

If I'm not mistaken, there's no arenas to abuse in this game. (Thankfully.) There's the DLCs but that's about it.

However, to be blunt, any form of abuse is impractical.

[darkkfan]

Misleading description is misleading. But that's another story.

If I'm not mistaken, there's no arenas to abuse in this game. (Thankfully.) There's the DLCs but that's about it.

However, to be blunt, any form of abuse is impractical.

Thanks for responding, but do you mind elaborating a bit? Why do you say all forms of abuse are impractical and is it so on all difficulty levels or just Lunatic?? And how (level-wise) would one go about abusing DLC?

[Othin]

DLC maps can be replayed unlimited times, so if you want unlimited Exp, just run through those. Far less tedious than other methods.

On the higher difficulties, most DLC maps get challenging enough that you won't be able to have weak characters do much there at all: Spirit Talisman 1 is the easiest "normal" DLC, yet on Lunatic, some enemies there have 20+ Speed. However, the "monster" maps in the first series don't scale with difficulty, so if you buy Gold and Silver and/or Entombed Heaven, you'll have an easy time grinding against the weak enemies there. Gold and Silver is mainly used for getting money; the weak enemies won't give much Exp (or money), but Entombed Heaven has plenty of Exp to offer low-level characters, so if you want to grind for huge amounts of Exp for weak characters, get that one.

[Just call me AL]

Thanks for responding, but do you mind elaborating a bit? Why do you say all forms of abuse are impractical and is it so on all difficulty levels or just Lunatic?? And how (level-wise) would one go about abusing DLC?

Well, basically, any form of abuse is rather time consuming and can get boring eventually in spite of making certain units superheroes. Especially if it happens to be a unit that wouldn't be a superhero otherwise without that abuse. (Like Wendy, Amelia, and Fiona, just to name a few.) FE13 thankfully mitigates tediousness with DLC.

I have no problem with anyone that enjoys spending hours raising particular units. But, though I may relaspe into such practices occasionally, I've outgrown abusing for the most part.

[darkkfan]

DLC maps can be replayed unlimited times, so if you want unlimited Exp, just run through those. Far less tedious than other methods.

On the higher difficulties, most DLC maps get challenging enough that you won't be able to have weak characters do much there at all: Spirit Talisman 1 is the easiest "normal" DLC, yet on Lunatic, some enemies there have 20+ Speed. However, the "monster" maps in the first series don't scale with difficulty, so if you buy Gold and Silver and/or Entombed Heaven, you'll have an easy time grinding against the weak enemies there. Gold and Silver is mainly used for getting money; the weak enemies won't give much Exp (or money), but Entombed Heaven has plenty of Exp to offer low-level characters, so if you want to grind for huge amounts of Exp for weak characters, get that one.

Ok, thanks for the info. Around which level (approximately) or chapter does it become possible to utilize Entombed Heaven for exp purposes?

Well, basically, any form of abuse is rather time consuming and can get boring eventually in spite of making certain units superheroes. Especially if it happens to be a unit that wouldn't be a superhero otherwise without that abuse. (Like Wendy, Amelia, and Fiona, just to name a few.) FE13 thankfully mitigates tediousness with DLC.

I have no problem with anyone that enjoys spending hours raising particular units. But, though I may relaspe into such practices occasionally, I've outgrown abusing for the most part.

Right, while it is certainly not the most sophisticated playing method, it certainly helps to make harder difficulties more manageable. As far as I know there aren't many chapters with turn limits so boss abuse seems like it could work. I still am wondering about those arenas, though...

[Othin]

DLC maps become available following Ch4.

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Enemy_Data:_Entombed_Heaven

I don't think you'll have trouble fighting off these enemies at any level, really.

There are no arenas in FE13, and few bosses sit on healing tiles. As for the harder difficulty levels, there's no point in playing them if you're going to go out of your way to override the challenge, but do what you wish.

[darkkfan]

DLC maps become available following Ch4.

http://serenesforest...Entombed_Heaven

I don't think you'll have trouble fighting off these enemies at any level, really.

There are no arenas in FE13, and few bosses sit on healing tiles. As for the harder difficulty levels, there's no point in playing them if you're going to go out of your way to override the challenge, but do what you wish.

Ok, I probably won't purchase DLC until I've beaten the game (so as not to detract from the challenge), but I don't think a few extra exp here and there from a boss will significantly reduce the challenge. Also, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that this game has random monster skirmishes like fe8 (outside of DLC). How do those work, and are those conducive to level grinding (perhaps these are the monster maps you are referring to)? I apologize if this question has already been answered.

As for DLC reducing the challenge, Normal DLC maps shouldn't be a problem, since they scale, it seems to me that only these "monster maps" that you mentioned are really just "pay to win" or at least "pay to make the game easier".

Edited September 1, 2012 by darkkfan

[Othin]

It's not that DLC hurts the challenge to simply play through once; it's that playing it over and over again destroys any possible challenge. Just don't replay DLC maps within a playthrough until you complete the main story if you want to maintain the challenge.

Random monster skirmishes are available, and start showing up on the world map around the same time as DLC becomes available. They appear and disappear over time based on the real-time clock, and you can summon them at will with an item you can purchase, choosing which area to influence the enemy levels. On Normal, this item is cheap, costing less than the money you get as drops from enemies in the skirmish, but on Hard and Lunatic, the item gets prohibitively expensive. On Lunatic, the skirmishes change to have their levels be determined based on overall game progress regardless of the location, and they scale absurdly fast, such that without huge amounts of grinding already, by the time any skirmishes appear, they're far out of your reach at that point.

You can also set up skirmishes with past-game characters through SpotPass; it's the main method of recruiting SpotPass characters. You can summon any of the teams you've downloaded any number of times to fight them, and like with skirmishes, they increase strongly in difficulty as the difficulty settings increase. However, on Lunatic (and Lunatic+), they become effectively worthless for grinding, as each battle becomes only worth 1 Exp and no WExp, and as always you get no items from the battles to replace any weapon uses you spend there.

So while there are three possibilities for grinding, DLC is the only one that really remains practical on the highest difficulty levels. It's entirely possible to play it without abusing it, but for any of them, you can abuse them and erase the challenge of the game. Once a character gets strong enough, they can hack through any of the maps again and again for free Exp, getting way too strong for that point in the game.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Othin

[darkkfan]

It's not that DLC hurts the challenge to simply play through once; it's that playing it over and over again destroys any possible challenge. Just don't replay DLC maps within a playthrough until you complete the main story if you want to maintain the challenge.

Random monster skirmishes are available, and start showing up on the world map around the same time as DLC becomes available. They appear and disappear over time based on the real-time clock, and you can summon them at will with an item you can purchase, choosing which area to influence the enemy levels. On Normal, this item is cheap, costing less than the money you get as drops from enemies in the skirmish, but on Hard and Lunatic, the item gets prohibitively expensive. On Lunatic, the skirmishes change to have their levels be determined based on overall game progress regardless of the location, and they scale absurdly fast, such that without huge amounts of grinding already, by the time any skirmishes appear, they're far out of your reach at that point.

You can also set up skirmishes with past-game characters through SpotPass; it's the main method of recruiting SpotPass characters. You can summon any of the teams you've downloaded any number of times to fight them, and like with skirmishes, they increase strongly in difficulty as the difficulty settings increase. However, on Lunatic (and Lunatic+), they become effectively worthless for grinding, as each battle becomes only worth 1 Exp and no WExp, and as always you get no items from the battles to replace any weapon uses you spend there.

So while there are three possibilities for grinding, DLC is the only one that really remains practical on the highest difficulty levels. It's entirely possible to play it without abusing it, but for any of them, you can abuse them and erase the challenge of the game. Once a character gets strong enough, they can hack through any of the maps again and again for free Exp, getting way too strong for that point in the game.

Thanks a lot for this, it really makes everything clear. What you have said makes sense, I think I will do what you have suggested and just play through DLC once each. Thanks for providing so much detail, it seems that on Lunatic the game is designed so that grinding/abuse is nearly impossible, aside from replaying DLC which kills the challenge.

How about post-game, though, Is replaying DLC required to complete the harder DLC and Spotpass missions? Also, at what point do the random skirmishes stop being impossible without grinding? What I mean to ask is, are DLC and Random skirmishes good for grinding after finishing the main story, and are they needed to beat the harder post-game missions?

Also, if you can grind postgame, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to cap all stats on your characters using the item that changes them back to level 10 unpromoted, right? And, assuming that you can't purchase infinite stat boosters like in fe8, post-game DLC grinding could theoretically be used to hit max stats and make even the hardest DLC missions a joke, if I am correct?

[Othin]

DLC is good for grinding postgame. Skirmishes can be good on Normal, where you can easily summon them where and when you want them, but they're not too convenient. On Lunatic, skirmishes eventually end up being promoted enemies with nearly all their stats capped, so if you can fight those, chances are, you don't have much grinding left to do.

And yeah, you can keep leveling to become extraordinarily powerful, which is what makes grinding more broken than ever before. It's actually possible to get more stat boosters from random merchants, but it's not at all necessary. And especially with the Limit Breaker skill from Ike's DLC, you can get characters strong enough to tear through any challenge... so far. We've seen images of absurdly strong enemies from upcoming DLC that get even stronger than the strongest player characters could possibly get - generic enemies with multiple special enemy-only skills and most stats going 15-30 points above their usual caps. For player characters, Mark can potentially be set up to exceed a regular stat cap by up to 11 points, but just one stat. The Limit Breaker skill increases caps by +10 each, for a total of 21, still falling far short. So for those maps, especially the hardest of those, you're expected to grind as far as you possibly could and still will have a huge challenge awaiting. Other maps, not so much. My imported maxed-out Limit Breaker MU from my Normal mode run can solo even the Lunatic Ultimate Training maps without much trouble, although meeting the special objective requirements alone is another story... Still, those enemies are fierce and took a bit of skill rearranging to beat even for a character for whom 50 is an average value for most stats. But then, that was with just one of him.

I should mention that even though they won't handle the most heavily-grinded characters, there are still plenty of scenarios set up that you're not supposed to have any chance at beating without grinding - specifically, the Light vs. Dark and Ultimate Training maps, as well as Paris's sidequest.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Othin

[Remnant Sage]

You can purchase infinite stat boosters (minus Boots and Divine Dragon Tears, which are limited to Fame bonus), it just takes forever to do so. The only guaranteed spots as far as I know would be if Anna spawned on a Spotpass map location. Otherwise, her wares are chosen from a list of items for a specific location.

I would like confirmation about a little something on Lunatic since I started not too long ago. I attempted to use Raimi as a source of EXP (because I screwed up distribution earlier), and everyone save Liz stopped gaining both EXP and WEXP after a few turns. I think it was around 3 Turns. Double EXP was a little different too. It looks like half from what's usually gained on Normal.

[Othin]

Interesting about the Anna locations. Checking into it, it looks like there's still a random list, but for those locations, the list is limited to stat boosters (including Arms Scrolls) and Hammerne staffs. Other locations appear to have different lists; the early maps, for example, mainly have basic weapons like Iron, but can also have Master/Change Seals. I'm going to have to look into this more to get specifics to add to the shops list.

That's also interesting about Raimi; she's one of the few bosses you could boss abuse against, but you can't even do that. And Double Exp definitely needs more investigating.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Othin

[darkkfan]

DLC is good for grinding postgame. Skirmishes can be good on Normal, where you can easily summon them where and when you want them, but they're not too convenient. On Lunatic, skirmishes eventually end up being promoted enemies with nearly all their stats capped, so if you can fight those, chances are, you don't have much grinding left to do.

And yeah, you can keep leveling to become extraordinarily powerful, which is what makes grinding more broken than ever before. It's actually possible to get more stat boosters from random merchants, but it's not at all necessary. And especially with the Limit Breaker skill from Ike's DLC, you can get characters strong enough to tear through any challenge... so far. We've seen images of absurdly strong enemies from upcoming DLC that get even stronger than the strongest player characters could possibly get - generic enemies with multiple special enemy-only skills and most stats going 15-30 points above their usual caps. For player characters, Mark can potentially be set up to exceed a regular stat cap by up to 11 points, but just one stat. The Limit Breaker skill increases caps by +10 each, for a total of 21, still falling far short. So for those maps, especially the hardest of those, you're expected to grind as far as you possibly could and still will have a huge challenge awaiting. Other maps, not so much. My imported maxed-out Limit Breaker MU from my Normal mode run can solo even the Lunatic Ultimate Training maps without much trouble, although meeting the special objective requirements alone is another story... Still, those enemies are fierce and took a bit of skill rearranging to beat even for a character for whom 50 is an average value for most stats. But then, that was with just one of him.

I should mention that even though they won't handle the most heavily-grinded characters, there are still plenty of scenarios set up that you're not supposed to have any chance at beating without grinding - specifically, the Light vs. Dark and Ultimate Training maps, as well as Paris's sidequest.

I see. Not much else I can say except I now understand DLC a lot more. Thanks.

You can purchase infinite stat boosters (minus Boots and Divine Dragon Tears, which are limited to Fame bonus), it just takes forever to do so. The only guaranteed spots as far as I know would be if Anna spawned on a Spotpass map location. Otherwise, her wares are chosen from a list of items for a specific location.

Since I am not familiar with how Spotpass appears on the world map, what is a spotpass location? I am assuming that spotpass quests only appear in certain spots and that is where you need to find Anna? Do there need to be Spotpass maps available for her to spawn with stat boosters?

The next question that follows from this new (at least to me) piece of info about stat boosters is: "About how long would it take (i.e. what is the chance) for Anna to spawn with these stat boosters?" I am guessing she would need to spawn more than once, since I don't think they are available all at once from what you've said. Furthermore, I wonder whether buying stat boosters is a quicker path to max stats than grinding and re-promoting? I suppose that would depend on the gold dynamic in the game. The stat booster route is probably more expensive, and I'm guessing change seals are readily available for the grinding route (although, referencing Othin's most recent post I can see that they are found in Anna's random shops, but I am not sure that this is the only place to find them, I wonder if there are also regular non-random shops on the world map like FE8). Again, the only comparable thing is FE8, and there I was only able to obtain enough gold to max stats via the Swiftsoles RNG abuse trick. Without that in this game, maps/enemies would need to give more gold. Perhaps that "Gold and Silver" map you mentioned earlier is the key?

I would like confirmation about a little something on Lunatic since I started not too long ago. I attempted to use Raimi as a source of EXP (because I screwed up distribution earlier), and everyone save Liz stopped gaining both EXP and WEXP after a few turns. I think it was around 3 Turns. Double EXP was a little different too. It looks like half from what's usually gained on Normal.

Wow, is this is true then I would be really impressed. It seems IS has caught onto most of the cheap tricks used by gamers for EXP.

[Remnant Sage]

Yeah, it would be where the 6 Spotpass sidequests are. She can sell stat boosters from every location, but it's AFAIK guaranteed for those 6 locations since her list only contains those and the Hammerne staff (labeled as "Rare" in one of the guides for brevity's sake). When she pops up in a spot, she'll sell whatever the spot sells, along with 3 random items pulled from that location's list. So if she spawns in Divine Dragon's Land (S17), she'll sell Arcfire, Arcthunder, Arcwind, Nosferatu and Ruin, along with 3 of the following: Bolganone, Thoron, Rexcalibur, Il, Brave Sword, Brave Axe, Brave Lance, Brave Bow, Reserve, "Rares". Regular shops don't stock permanent stat boosters, only the temporary ones.

Using Gold and Silver, hoping for 2 enemy symbols on one location, abusing Mug and Weapon Saver... I usually use the 3rd option since replaying G&S gets really old.

[Othin]

SpotPass sidequests are sidequests downloaded free through SpotPass; after downloading and activating them, they show up on the map and can be played after unlocking the Final. You can only play them once per file, like regular sidequests, but you can recruit an interesting secret character in each one. As with all sidequests (and story chapters, for that matter), you unlock a shop on its map location after completing it, and these in particular have rare and powerful items; in particular, Paris's sidequest, the hardest non-DLC map in the game, has a shop that sells Levin Swords, Noble Rapiers, Short Spears, Short Axes, and Longbows, available after completion.

The traveling merchants appear over time, like with skirmishes, only you can't buy an item to summon them. They each sell three items out of a longer list depending on the location, sometimes at slightly reduced prices. Affording the items isn't any trouble, but the fact that the merchants are so slow to appear and usually have other items instead means it would take a ridiculous amount of time waiting in order to get many stat boosters, when you could just grind and level up way faster. Trying to max out stats with stat boosters is just a bad idea.

As for money, it's everywhere. You get a ton from the story, and more from every skirmish. And a couple of unique weapons are infinite-use anyway, so you'll never run out.

As for regular shops: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Shops

[Remnant Sage]

Just scanned the shop listings (doesn't have anything for the Spotpass maps). If it mentions "random rare", then it's Hammerne + stat boosters.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114197013914591167742/FEScans?authkey=Gv1sRgCK7wpp7PgujV-AE#5783400683450660178

https://picasaweb.google.com/114197013914591167742/FEScans?authkey=Gv1sRgCK7wpp7PgujV-AE#5783400970005825026

https://picasaweb.google.com/114197013914591167742/FEScans?authkey=Gv1sRgCK7wpp7PgujV-AE#5783400738849501362

[darkkfan]

Yeah, it would be where the 6 Spotpass sidequests are. She can sell stat boosters from every location, but it's AFAIK guaranteed for those 6 locations since her list only contains those and the Hammerne staff (labeled as "Rare" in one of the guides for brevity's sake). When she pops up in a spot, she'll sell whatever the spot sells, along with 3 random items pulled from that location's list. So if she spawns in Divine Dragon's Land (S17), she'll sell Arcfire, Arcthunder, Arcwind, Nosferatu and Ruin, along with 3 of the following: Bolganone, Thoron, Rexcalibur, Il, Brave Sword, Brave Axe, Brave Lance, Brave Bow, Reserve, "Rares". Regular shops don't stock permanent stat boosters, only the temporary ones.

Using Gold and Silver, hoping for 2 enemy symbols on one location, abusing Mug and Weapon Saver... I usually use the 3rd option since replaying G&S gets really old.

I followed this post no problem... until I got to the last line. Can you please explain what you are referring to? Sorry I am not familiar with specific DLC maps and have no idea what you mean by "Mug", "Weapon Saver", or "2 enemy symbols".

SpotPass sidequests are sidequests downloaded free through SpotPass; after downloading and activating them, they show up on the map and can be played after unlocking the Final. You can only play them once per file, like regular sidequests, but you can recruit an interesting secret character in each one. As with all sidequests (and story chapters, for that matter), you unlock a shop on its map location after completing it, and these in particular have rare and powerful items; in particular, Paris's sidequest, the hardest non-DLC map in the game, has a shop that sells Levin Swords, Noble Rapiers, Short Spears, Short Axes, and Longbows, available after completion.

The traveling merchants appear over time, like with skirmishes, only you can't buy an item to summon them. They each sell three items out of a longer list depending on the location, sometimes at slightly reduced prices. Affording the items isn't any trouble, but the fact that the merchants are so slow to appear and usually have other items instead means it would take a ridiculous amount of time waiting in order to get many stat boosters, when you could just grind and level up way faster. Trying to max out stats with stat boosters is just a bad idea.

As for money, it's everywhere. You get a ton from the story, and more from every skirmish. And a couple of unique weapons are infinite-use anyway, so you'll never run out.

As for regular shops: http://serenesforest...Awakening_Shops

Ok, thanks, I get it now. Makes sense and answers my many questions. I guess you can buy Change Seals normally. Also, it seems that it is impractical to count on stat boosters outside of the ones gotten from the main story, and that grinding is a much more viable alternative.

[Remnant Sage]

Sorry, that was In terms of making money. I tend to answer things in order, but forget to quote stuff.

1. Gold and Silver is the DLC map.

2. The "enemy symbols" are skirmishes that can spawn over time in various locations. Sometimes you'll have 2 on the same spot, which gives you a bonus 3000G and a random item. It's really slow, though.

3. Mug and Weapon Saver are skills. Mug has a Luck% chance of "stealing" a Gold (S) (sells for 1000G) and Weapon Saver preserves weapon uses (Luck*2%) while you're busy mugging enemies. Weapon Saver isn't necessary if you give Marth (Spotpass or DLC) a Falchion, so he can be on his merry way mugging things after the appropriate reclassing. Or you can use Leaf's Prizesword with Weapon Saver for the same effect.

So you really never run out of money.

[Othin]

Of course, once you get Limit Breaker on everyone, you can get them to 50+ Luck no problem and have 100% Weapon Saver for even more characters able to use any weapon unlimited times. But that's more of a long-term thing.

[Fanfaire]

Nosferatu is the only thing you'll need to break the game. EXP will come in droves since everything will throw themselves at you to their deaths as you heal it up.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Fanfaire

[darkkfan]

Of course, once you get Limit Breaker on everyone, you can get them to 50+ Luck no problem and have 100% Weapon Saver for even more characters able to use any weapon unlimited times. But that's more of a long-term thing.

Limit Breaker sounds cool, but I wasn't aware you could get that on everyone. Does it mean replaying the DLC map that gives it to you over and over?

Nosferatu is the only thing you'll need to break the game. EXP will come in droves since everything will throw themselves at you to their deaths as you heal it up.

Only problem with that logic is only Sorcerors can use it, Nosferatu comes late, and it is too expensive to be practical for grinding. But otherwise, yeah, sure, Nosferatu.

[Silent Mercenary]

Affording the items isn't any trouble, but the fact that the merchants are so slow to appear and usually have other items instead means it would take a ridiculous amount of time waiting in order to get many stat boosters, when you could just grind and level up way faster. Trying to max out stats with stat boosters is just a bad idea.

Sorry for asking again, but since my question in the question topic was ignored, and the issue was brought upon again here on a topic about abuse, I'll ask again. Can you adjust the clock/calendar to get merchants to come by faster?

Assuming it works, it would be a tedious process to have to change the calendar, check the game, ignore the merchant (enter and leave?), then repeat until Anna sells what you want. But I think it can help get certain weapon/item for a specific challenge (I'm thinking of you, Donny) or if you're like me and too impatient to get extra Change Seals before the kids start popping up. By extent, does it work on Everyone's room too?

[Remnant Sage]

Limit Breaker sounds cool, but I wasn't aware you could get that on everyone. Does it mean replaying the DLC map that gives it to you over and over?

You can get as many of the Limit Breaker manual as you want, as long as you successfully completely the map.

Sorry for asking again, but since my question in the question topic was ignored, and the issue was brought upon again here on a topic about abuse, I'll ask again. Can you adjust the clock/calendar to get merchants to come by faster?

Assuming it works, it would be a tedious process to have to change the calendar, check the game, ignore the merchant (enter and leave?), then repeat until Anna sells what you want. But I think it can help get certain weapon/item for a specific challenge (I'm thinking of you, Donny) or if you're like me and too impatient to get extra Change Seals before the kids start popping up. By extent, does it work on Everyone's room too?

I just tried changing the system clock (set it 3 days later). Nothing happened.

[Silent Mercenary]

I just tried changing the system clock (set it 3 days later). Nothing happened.

Thanks for the answer. Smart game then? Or is it like playing time and not actual time that matters? Maybe it's just Everyone's Room birthday gifts that could be advanced.