Fire Emblem Wii U

[Rehab]

Am I correct in interpreting Anouleth to be basically saying that, such as they have usually been, both the whole weapon degradation thing, and attempts to make the materials of weapons anything other than linear upgrades, are basically pointless? Which I suppose would then mean it would be preferable to have either FE4's approach or the average RPG's approach to weapons, where weapon choice is relatively linear and stocking up on extra weapons is effectively eliminated?

If so, personally I probably wouldn't have much love lost over it, I admit. I think the way FE did weapons in the GBA era and so forth wasn't necessarily devoid of at least tactical thought by design, but in most cases I didn't really think of it as much more than one more way I had to prepare for fights with the biggest advantage I could get, whenever I had the money. Which, though I might be remembering things selectively, felt like most of the time, given the large inventory space.

I also thought it was sometimes kind of silly that they either never had any smiths around, or that they did but they could only sell you brand new stuff, instead of repairing your old weapons, or at least the kinds they knew how to make.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Rehab

[Constable Reggie]

Because FE13 is a modern FE, in which hit rates are generally quite high, the loss of 5 hit when you have 90 hit is very small in real terms. And certainly this is a move away from earlier FEs where Steel weapons were unusably heavy and inaccurate, to the point where you would have to enjoy a 10 point speed lead in order to effectively use a Steel weapon.

It's still a consequence you have to choose to accept.

Having less uses is pretty much in line with Pokemon, where stronger moves have less PP. And of course they're more expensive. My whole point is that more expensive, rarer, higher rank weapons should be better than cheaper, more common, lower rank weapons. Otherwise, what is the point of money, if "expensive" weapons have to be balanced with "cheap" weapons? What is the point in advancing in the game if the weapons you get are not more powerful than your E Ranks? What is the point in increasing your weapon ranks when a lot of the time, you want to use Iron weapons anyway?

In pokemon though, you basically choose one specific type of attack move, since you're forced to only 4 slots. It's not the same, since Fire Emblem doesn't have that strict limitation, thus giving you the option to retain cheaper weapons without a huge penalty. I'm no expert, but I'm sure people don't put both surf AND hydro pump on one pokemon. And as I've said before, succeeding weapons are usually better overall or situationally MUCH better. But it's not always clear cut 100% of the time if you want to use silver over iron.

Cost is a bit different anyway. Sure, more expensive weapons cost more. But usually, the game gives you more money anyway towards the end of the game. So in real terms they're often not more expensive. So why make them more expensive at all? To make the player feel richer. So this is really an RPG thing. In FE4, weapons could get extremely expensive!

Fair enough. But let me say that weapon balance is not something that Fe4 was exactly praised for.

Nope, not strategy. A plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim. A general, undetailed plan of action, encompassing a long period of time, to achieve a complicated goal. These things you mentioned are tactics, and without good tactics to underpin it, a strategy cannot succeed, and certainly these things might be part of a broader strategy with the goal of beating the game or the level, but they are not strategies.

Killing an enemy usually contributes to the overall goal of beating the chapter. It's a strategic decision to use one weapon that has certain risks over other weapons that has other risks. If you want to be specific, fine it's a tactical decision. They still contribute to overall strategy, though. We're just repeating what we're saying over this over and over again, it's not going anywhere.

The enemy has 15 HP. So you see, in this situation the Iron weapon is always better.

You asked me for a legitimate time you would use steel over iron. Stop trying to hand wave it away by using another example.

No, it isn't. You're not achieving a major or overall aim. It's not a general, undetailed plan. It doesn't encompass a long period of time. You're not achieving a complicated goal.

Since when do short term strategic decisions (tactics) not affect your overall goal? Are you saying that individual movements of chess pieces do not contribute to the overall goal of winning?

No, the Iron Sword is the absolute best one.

Explain to me how eating a counter attack is better than not eating a counter attack.

Fire Emblem is a niche title. It is not wrong for it to try and appeal to the mainstream, even if it gets up the hackles of message board commentators who think that being inaccessible and overly numbers-based is a good thing.

Of course it is, if it means destroying the core concepts that the series was built upon. Steel and above weapons were always meant to have minor consequences that let the player know that more expensive weapons aren't ALWAYS the better choice. They knew that it wasn't a good idea to homogenize the order in Fe4, considering every game after changed it right back to the original way.

Is it innovation for Fire Emblem to continue to do the same thing over and over again? Why am I the one who hates innovation, when it's you who wants to turn back the clock to FE5/6/7 when the game was apparently balanced and full of strategy? I want to see Fire Emblem get out of it's rut, it's comfort zone. FE13 is a good first step. It is making Fire Emblem more like other RPGs. You have a world map you can explore. You upgrade your weapons. You learn skills as you level up. But it also preserves the core mechanics of Fire Emblem: like the grid system and the wide cast of characters. And I for one, would very much like to see Fire Emblem continue down this path. Fame and fortune await!

Where did I say anything about going back to the GBA style (they simplified several things about the series to make up for portability and accessibility). Fe5 is easily the most innovative game in the series, with several new major additions, some of which were permanently added. Fe4 is probably the second most innovative, with it's huge departure from the normal Fe style and weapons. The weapon system wasn't ever used again though, because it wasn't very balanced. Homogenizing a game known for it's different style of play is a bad idea. Where do we draw the limit? Why don't we completely eliminate the permadeath system since it could be considered off putting for mainstream players? Why try to turn it into a Duke Nukem Forever?

Except that Steel weapons having shitty hit is not a core mechanic. Unless you're saying that FE4 isn't a real Fire Emblem.

Of course it is. The original game felt the need to use it's extremely limited memory to implement a weight and accuracy system for the different weapons. Fe4 tried something different, but if it was so great, why did every single game afterwards switch back to the DDaSoL method of weapons?

[Integrity]

That one dude set up a topic where you can continue debating the merits of Fire Emblem mechanics like precisely what you're doing. Kindly take it there, mate.

[Anouleth]

I also thought it was sometimes kind of silly that they either never had any smiths around, or that they did but they could only sell you brand new stuff, instead of repairing your old weapons, or at least the kinds they knew how to make.

History's great scam. These weapons are designed to break down after exactly 45 uses, just so they can sell you more! And of course, the warranties all go up to 40 uses. Typical!

[Gold Vanguard]

I would buy an HD Fire Emblem anytime!!

[Lanko]

Considering i'm going to buy a 3DS XL for Awakening, i really hope they first release more games at this system...at least one more, hopefully two more, to match GBA's three games.

Remakes of FE2, FE4 or FE5 would be nice, including the polemic parts. But i would prefer something new.

I also don't like monsters, like mindless zombies, skeletons, etc...i want to fight other humans ( ok with dragons ) that have objectives other than ''destroy the world'' and you have no remorse in killing. I want a FE with some story/dialogue like Game of Thrones!

I want some intrigue between people not ''oh look undead army wants to wipe all life, let's all join forces to defeat them!''.

I know there are monsters in FE13, but i really hope this game isn't like FE8 bullshit ''we are evil, undead, possesed and ugly,kills us''.

Don't spoil please

Edited December 24, 2012 by Lanko

[Bryan]

I also don't like monsters, like mindless zombies, skeletons, etc...i want to fight other humans ( ok with dragons ) that have objectives other than ''destroy the world'' and you have no remorse in killing. I want a FE with some story/dialogue like Game of Thrones!

Wait, what bosses did you have remorse for besides Lyon from FE8 and Maybe Yurius/Alvis from 4? I wanted to kill 1/2/3/4(sorta)/5/6/7/9/10.

[Rehab]

Let's see, for me at least there was:

- a swordmaster dude in a snowy chapter shortly after Ike got promoted in FE9 who chatted with him a bit about his style and how he learned, I think (and promptly got cut down IIRC)

- that Begnion sentinel dude in FE10 that we all wish was recruitable because he seemed like a nice guy (who was downed in Part 4 IIRC)

- to an extent Uhai in FE7, who seemed like he was working for the Black Hand out of weariness/maybe fear of Nergal/having nowhere else to go

- Tinny's cousin(s?) in FE4, who I thought was/were for the large part more sympathetic than Alvis (WHO'RE THESE ASSHOLES WHO JUST KILLED MY RELATIVES/FRIENDS, WHAT THE HELL MAN)

- though I never got a chance to go very far into FE5 before having to get a new computer, in the first chapter at least the poor suckers you were fighting were mostly just the village militia or something right?

- Selene? Syrene? the only female of the 4 Grado generals in FE 8, IIRC she was staying to fight only out of duty/love/the usual

Potentially more, if you count recruitable characters, say Hannibal in FE4 for example. One thing I especially liked about FE, when I hadn't played that many non-Nintendo games/many with lower age ratings, was the idea that everything (mostly) that I fought (and killed!) wasn't just another copy of an unrelatable monster, I was killing little actual people! I agree that it's nice to see some unambiguously ambiguous action in Fire Emblem games now and then.

(I'm not a sociopath I swear)

Edited December 24, 2012 by Rehab

[Constable Reggie]

- though I never got a chance to go very far into FE5 before having to get a new computer, in the first chapter at least the poor suckers you were fighting were mostly just the village militia or something right?

Negative sir, they were Manster soldiers under the Grandbell Empire. Oh, and they just so happened to kidnap Nanna and Eyval's daughter.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Constable Reggie

[Rehab]

Oh well fuck those guys then, thanks dude

Edited December 24, 2012 by Rehab

[Anouleth]

Yet the game also incentivises killing as many enemies to maximise EXP.

mixed messages

[Lanko]

Wait, what bosses did you have remorse for besides Lyon from FE8 and Maybe Yurius/Alvis from 4? I wanted to kill 1/2/3/4(sorta)/5/6/7/9/10.

I didn't meant just the final boss =p.

And maybe remorse was a wrong word. Like, you fight a boss or someone who you know it's not just a mindless maniac, but they will fight against you for what he believes to be right, be it personal, political or even if misguided.

Ex : Selena, The Four Fangs, Camus, Katarina, etc.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Lanko

[Integrity]

Wait, what bosses did you have remorse for besides Lyon from FE8 and Maybe Yurius/Alvis from 4? I wanted to kill 1/2/3/4(sorta)/5/6/7/9/10.

Alvis, sure, but did I miss the part where Julius was anything other than literally the Antichrist?

[Rehab]

I think at least at one point he was mentioned to be a nice kid until Manfroy showed him the Antibible. But by the time we actually kill him ingame yeah just chuck the dude from the battlements into Narga's mouth far as I'm concerned

[Garteam]

As long as the Jagen of this game isn't as broken as an egg after being crushed by a jackhammer.

That is all.

[BlueLore]

Let's see, for me at least there was:

- a swordmaster dude in a snowy chapter shortly after Ike got promoted in FE9 who chatted with him a bit about his style and how he learned, I think (and promptly got cut down IIRC)

- that Begnion sentinel dude in FE10 that we all wish was recruitable because he seemed like a nice guy (who was downed in Part 4 IIRC)

- to an extent Uhai in FE7, who seemed like he was working for the Black Hand out of weariness/maybe fear of Nergal/having nowhere else to go

- Tinny's cousin(s?) in FE4, who I thought was/were for the large part more sympathetic than Alvis (WHO'RE THESE ASSHOLES WHO JUST KILLED MY RELATIVES/FRIENDS, WHAT THE HELL MAN)

- though I never got a chance to go very far into FE5 before having to get a new computer, in the first chapter at least the poor suckers you were fighting were mostly just the village militia or something right?

- Selene? Syrene? the only female of the 4 Grado generals in FE 8, IIRC she was staying to fight only out of duty/love/the usual

I would add bryce from Fire emblem 9,he wasn't a bad man himself and just wanted to defend his country,yet you had to kill him(or at least it was very helpful to kill him),also hetzel to some extend,sure he was a coward and was too afraid to do anything against lekain and ashera,but it was made clear,that he was still not evil,but actually a good man,giving up a great part of his wealth just to save rafiel.

Also shiraham,jills father,who you have to murder,even killing petrine didn't felt all right,sure she was a bitch,but the way how she was afraid of dying was kinda unnerving,not to mention,that she was actually a branded,so her going to the daein military was probably the best choice.

And I didn't play FE3/12 but don't you have to kill hardin?which is also quite sad

...so yeah overall there are quite some bosses you feel bad for killing...or at least I feel sorry for them.

[Knight]

After I found out the truth of Nergal's motives, I felt quite sorry for him. Also Michalis, Camus, and Rajaion. (You kill him while killing Ashnard.)