The Lunatic Club

[Tribute]

From what I was seeing the unit has to be involved for their rng to change.

ie chrom and freddy doing something wont affect your levels, but switching with lissa and letting her take a hit, or if you're on the boss where you can stop to heal, unequipping and soaking a hit yourself.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Tribute

[noelclover89]

@Czar Yoshi: Thanks for the tip, it really made things easier, an less wasted EXP :D

[......]

Step 1: Beat the first few chapters and unlock the Outrealm Gate

Step 2: Start grinding in Golden Gaffe & Exponential Growth

Step 3: Beat Lunatic/Lunatic+ like it's normal mode.

Too easy

[Czar_Yoshi]

Step 1: Beat the first few chapters and unlock the Outrealm Gate

Step 2: Start grinding in Golden Gaffe & Exponential Growth

Step 3: Beat Lunatic/Lunatic+ like it's normal mode.

Too easy

Er, who are you talking to?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Minion]

Step 1: Beat the first few chapters and unlock the Outrealm Gate

Step 2: Start grinding in Golden Gaffe & Exponential Growth

Step 3: Beat Lunatic/Lunatic+ like it's normal mode.

Too easy

Er, who are you talking to?

You'll have to forgive my friend here. Us generics aren't very good at conversation.

[Fellblood]

Step 1: Beat the first few chapters and unlock the Outrealm Gate

Step 2: Start grinding in Golden Gaffe & Exponential Growth

Step 3: Beat Lunatic/Lunatic+ like it's normal mode.

Too easy

Do risen skirmishes and don't use Limit Breaker. Its a decent challenge if you are on classic mode and refuse to let anyone die.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Do risen skirmishes and don't use Limit Breaker. Its a decent challenge if you are on classic mode and refuse to let anyone die.

Oh, LB is banned but not the rest of the DLC?

*Recruits Micaiah, grinds her to max stats, gets Galeforce, Sol, Lifetaker, AT, Shadowgift*

No, you need to ban all DLC, along with spotpass characters for that to be hard.

[Fellblood]

I guess so, the game's not all that difficult.

Limit Breaker always seemed like what really made it too easy for me so that's why I put it.

[Czar_Yoshi]

The point of Lunatic with Risen is that the Risen grow extremely quickly. Once you're both capped and neither side can get stronger, DLC or not you're going to steamroll the Risen. The challenge comes from keeping up with their growth while going through bad classes for good skills and training units to either be your partner or the parent of your partner, as well as not running out of money. DLC removes all of those issues, even if you just use it for exp/cash and ignore the skills and characters.

It's a fun run when done properly, though.

[FionordeQuester]

The point of Lunatic with Risen is that the Risen grow extremely quickly. Once you're both capped and neither side can get stronger, DLC or not you're going to steamroll the Risen.

Do you mean once you have your Avatar capped, or if you have a capped team? Because my Avatar was capped, and the man STILL struggled greatly with Risen encounters. In fact, I completed a 100% Lunatic+ game a few days ago (no DLC chapters though), so I'll be sure to share my thoughts on that!

[Czar_Yoshi]

You can do it with just Avatar and a support, but Morgan and a support is better, and Avatar, Morgan, and supports for each of them is best. Wyvern Lord x FK, DK x DF, and Paladin x GK work well. You can't raise too many units for this, as there are only two pairs of Boots and those are very important. Before Cht.13, all of your units should either be Avatar or healers who don't hog his exp (I had Lissa to a Valkyrie by Cht.8).

Oh, and no Dark Magic. Nos ruins the challenge as well.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

So I was kind of bored and made a couple regular Lunatic real time speed run attempts for the sake of curiosity. A Female Avatar x Chrom duo seriously does completely wreck the game when Lunatic+ skills aren't in play (and even with Nos and DLC banned). Of note is that I did use the Second Seal from Renown, as I was getting bad shop spawn luck (the few times they did spawn, it was just with Steel junk) where they just weren't spawning, I was pretty much getting all random Risen encounters. Since I wasn't recording the run or doing it for an audience or anything else that would have made it more serious, I didn't feel like resetting and replaying the first 30ish mins over and over. So I simulated the shop by taking the seal and pitching out 2500 gold (buying 6 Heals, 2 Bronze Axes, 2 Vulneraries and selling them all back).

I started the timer as soon as the chapter screen for Premonition popped up. Prologue required the most inputs and I used the water trick to get Avatar farmed. After that, the next couple chapters were a small amount of inputs plus moving the other player units out of the way to keep them from aggroing enemies and wasting time. Chapter 4 and 5 were pretty much "pair up, end turn, mash start", then Chapter 6 required a bit more input to keep Panne out of the way and prevent Emm from getting ganked (little bit of luck where Lucy had to not die immediately so that I could get in range of all Thieves to prevent them from opening the door). After that, it was pretty much just an "end turn, mash start"-fest where I'd occasionally have to check Avatar's HP (until I got Sol) and Galeforce down a few Counter Warriors. I stopped the timer as soon as Chrom landed the killing dual strike on Grima. The stopwatch read 2 hours, 6 minutes, 48 seconds. I can't remember the exact recorded game time going into Endgame, but it was something like 2 hours, 2 minutes. Sub-2 hours is probably possible, considering I botched a bunch of inputs, got stuck a few times where I wasn't mashing start fast enough to skip enemy phase, skipping 3-4 individual map attacks before I could finally skip enemy phase, plus fumbling swapping Chrom's weaponry around. Not to mention as this was a bit of a casual test, I played it safe and lingered a minute or two for extra fights so that Chrom's hit rate and damage would be more reliable going into the final fight.

Having done the run twice, I have also come to the conclusion that this would have pretty low entertainment value as an actual live speed run because my skipping so much stuff would make it incredibly boring and disorienting for viewers.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Tables]

So I was kind of bored and made a couple regular Lunatic real time speed run attempts for the sake of curiosity.

...

Sub-2 hours is probably possible, considering I botched a bunch of inputs, got stuck a few times where I wasn't mashing start fast enough to skip enemy phase, skipping 3-4 individual map attacks before I could finally skip enemy phase, plus fumbling swapping Chrom's weaponry around. Not to mention as this was a bit of a casual test, I played it safe and lingered a minute or two for extra fights so that Chrom's hit rate and damage would be more reliable going into the final fight.

Having done the run twice, I have also come to the conclusion that this would have pretty low entertainment value as an actual live speed run because my skipping so much stuff would make it incredibly boring and disorienting for viewers.

Hmm, sub-2? I think you could probably get quite a bit faster than that, but I think that it might start to become a lot more luck dependent. The Normal mode WR is about 38 minutes for a non-NG+ run (NG+ can easily get to like 30 minutes or close) to that. Lunatic obviously is much slower, especially early on, but I think once you're past some of the earlygame and Avatar is levelled, it could be much faster, perhaps around 4/3rds of the time of the Normal mode run.

[FionordeQuester]

Well, I've done Lunatic+, and JEEEEEZ is it insane. It is probably by far the hardest hard mode in any Fire Emblem to date. Not only are the stats jacked up to the max, not only are there tons of forged weapons, but every enemy has the potential to halve your defense, reflect damage back at you, or any other assorted number of things. I've never seen a mode that so constantly put you on your toes no matter how strong you were! Even with a maxed Avatar paired with Chrom, and even abusing tricks like having a bow and arrow so that only a few enemies could attack me at a time, and even with stuff like Sol and Lifetaker, it was STILL all I could do just to survive!

So now, I'm doing another run to see if I can perfect an efficient route, without DLC or Spotpass (Renown items are allowed though). What would you guys personally suggest to be the ultimate Avatar, without DLC? What endgame builds do you usually like?

Edited February 20, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Roivann]

Well, I've done Lunatic+, and JEEEEEZ is it insane. It is probably by far the hardest hard mode in any Fire Emblem to date. Not only are the stats jacked up to the max, not only are there tons of forged weapons, but every enemy has the potential to halve your defense, reflect damage back at you, or any other assorted number of things. I've never seen a mode that so constantly put you on your toes no matter how strong you were! Even with a maxed Avatar paired with Chrom, and even abusing tricks like having a bow and arrow so that only a few enemies could attack me at a time, and even with stuff like Sol and Lifetaker, it was STILL all I could do just to survive!

So now, I'm doing another run to see if I can perfect an efficient route, without DLC or Spotpass (Renown items are allowed though). What would you guys personally suggest to be the ultimate Avatar, without DLC? What endgame builds do you usually like?

Well, I always like Vantage/Vengeance. Throwing in Wrath is neat-o, as well.

[Interceptor]

So now, I'm doing another run to see if I can perfect an efficient route, without DLC or Spotpass (Renown items are allowed though). What would you guys personally suggest to be the ultimate Avatar, without DLC? What endgame builds do you usually like?

Counter never really ceases to be an issue in Lunatic+, so my ideal Avatar would be equipped to deal with it. That means a female, for Galeforce. The rest would be situational, but I like Sol, Vantage, Vengeance, and even something like Miracle, Armsthrift, or Lifetaker. Support partner would need to have Dual Guard+ at minimum, since that's a strong answer for those lategame Luna+ enemies with laser-sights.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Hmm, sub-2? I think you could probably get quite a bit faster than that, but I think that it might start to become a lot more luck dependent. The Normal mode WR is about 38 minutes for a non-NG+ run (NG+ can easily get to like 30 minutes or close) to that. Lunatic obviously is much slower, especially early on, but I think once you're past some of the earlygame and Avatar is levelled, it could be much faster, perhaps around 4/3rds of the time of the Normal mode run.

Just making sure we're clear: is NG+ New Game+ and referring to just Renown and the logbook?

I do agree that it could probably be much faster than 2 hours, although I'm a bit hesitant to say less than 1 hour without god luck. I just said sub-2 hours because I wasn't entirely sure how far it could realistically go. Having thought about it more, aside from my suboptimal inputting bleeding time, I think the biggest time losses are at the very beginning and in level ups.

For the first, the enemies are still a pretty big threat right off, so some delaying for the water trick is pretty much necessary. Chapter 1 will be too dicey otherwise, barring some serious luck and getting Avatar ahead sooner rather than later pays dividends. The big potential time-saver comes from luck, in that if Avatar picks up enough really good levels in the Prologue and Chapter 1, then I could ditch Fred and stop having to worry about screwing around keeping Chrom from getting ganked (or having the forced deploy units distracting enemy units toward him) in the next two chapters.

The second is, as far as I know, unskippable, interrupts the enemy phase skip and takes up a surprising amount of time that adds up over a large quantity. It's also something I don't think I have much of a choice on. The disparity in stats needed to complete the game is rather large, so while a Normal run can get just enough stats to never be in danger of dying and then stay at 20 to avoid further time loss. There is still some non-trivial level of risk in the last few chapters on Lunatic, even with maxed stats. What's more, Chrom needs to pick up as many levels as he can so that he can Exalted Falchion down the last boss. I guess this could possibly be circumvented a bit if I were to take him down Archer->Sniper and pick up Hit+20, but that may result in time loss elsewhere, because no Beastkillers, Armourslayers or Rapiers for a while (not to mention the issue of Str). Getting stat boosters from the few Anna shops that spawn may also help with this by capping stats faster (especially since the run's totally rolling in cash after a bit).

Oh and I should note that I considered Paralogues 1-4 part of the run. I guess if we're going straight for the throat, cutting them can probably shave off somewhere between 8 and 12 minutes.

So now, I'm doing another run to see if I can perfect an efficient route, without DLC or Spotpass (Renown items are allowed though). What would you guys personally suggest to be the ultimate Avatar, without DLC? What endgame builds do you usually like?

I usually run a Tactician 20 -> Tactician 10+ (promote ASAP) -> Grandmaster 10 -> Dark Flier 15 -> Hero 15 -> Paladin 15 -> Dark Knight

The resulting final skill build is: Ignis, Sol, Aegis, Axebreaker, Defender. It's a very safe build, especially after getting Galeforce. Ignis will help one-shot early-mid Counter enemies.

I also tried a male Avatar that went Tactician 15 -> Barbarian 10 -> Warrior 15 -> Hero 15 -> Berserker 15 -> Warrior

With the final build being: Gamble, Wrath, Sol, Axebreaker, Despoil/Solidarity

This build can only really be described as Casinovatar. It's hilarious to watch, especially with a Killer Axe equipped, but man is it ever unreliable (but generally gets the job done). I picked up Axefaire to use, but realized that a Warrior had enough Str to generally crit-gib an enemy and that I was just setting myself up to take more damage against Counter guys if the crit didn't go off. Sol crits are generally Avatar's counter to having eaten a Counter. On a second use of the build, I'd probably revise it to:

Tactician 10+ -> Barbarian 10 -> Warrior 10 -> Hero 15 -> Berserker 10 -> Warrior

[Czar_Yoshi]

So now, I'm doing another run to see if I can perfect an efficient route, without DLC or Spotpass (Renown items are allowed though). What would you guys personally suggest to be the ultimate Avatar, without DLC? What endgame builds do you usually like?

No spotpass anything, or just the characters themselves? Spotpass shops are kind of important, and so are the Double Bow and Book of Naga. Without any of those, I grab AT, pass it to Morgan, get her Galeforce and kill things with a Wyvern Lord packing 75+ Atk (Gradivus). Avatar usually ends up as a Warrior with Solidarity, AT, Sol, Counter, and Renewal.

[FionordeQuester]

No spotpass anything, or just the characters themselves? Spotpass shops are kind of important, and so are the Double Bow and Book of Naga. Without any of those, I grab AT, pass it to Morgan, get her Galeforce and kill things with a Wyvern Lord packing 75+ Atk (Gradivus). Avatar usually ends up as a Warrior with Solidarity, AT, Sol, Counter, and Renewal.

What's AT again? Anyways, yes, nothing but Renown Items, that's correct.

[Tables]

What's AT again? Anyways, yes, nothing but Renown Items, that's correct.

Armsthrift. It's a convenience I suppose.

[FionordeQuester]

Ah, that. I LOVE that skill! I would even call it more than a convenience if you've got something awesome like a Katarina's Bolt, and are still in that awkward phase where you're trying to get more skills. You need all the awesome weapons you can get at that point!

Edited February 21, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Czar_Yoshi]

Have fun trying to train your units without Levin Swords.

The best use of AT in Lunatic(+) is preserving the Gradivus, by far. You start getting cash right around the time that it becomes reliable, so it won't make too much of a difference if you're just packing unforged Silver. It could also be helpful for keeping the Levin Sword intact, but that's a weapon for training, not endgame combat so your Lck won't be very high yet.

[FionordeQuester]

Units? As in, plural? What use are they?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Multiple units do make Lunatic+ easier once they get traction (early game is pretty much always going to be dicey barring godlike luck). The trick is actually getting that far. I find three combat pairs is usually enough to cover all directions and get a comfortable EXP distribution (I keep trying for five, but I end up cutting at least one, if not two... and if that 4th pair doesn't get cut, it's usually only strong enough to be emergency tank against one enemy). The rest I typically fill with Lissa, Libra and Anna as staff-botters (Rescue is really versatile and a pretty good way to deal with Counter). If there's still open slots, then I go for Olivia and any units with rallies available (and more staff-botters once I start doing the Bonus Box Paralogues).

[Interceptor]

Armsthrift. It's a convenience I suppose.

Ehhhh... it's a convenience in a world where gold is unlimited, only generic weapons are being used, and it doesn't matter if something breaks in the middle of Enemy Phase. We don't live in that world, though. Armsthrift offers more than just sparing the player some inventory feng shui.