The Lunatic Club

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Ok guys, turns out, my plan worked absolutely BRILLIANTLY, especially once I switched back to Sorceror after getting Dark Knight. Seems Vengeance + Forged Nosferatu REALLY tears the game apart, to the point where I can just jump into enemy encounters all the up until even Chapter 23!

But now I'm having a problem defeating Grima. I blew a lot of boosters on Avatar, and only have two Staff bots, so I guess that's why I'm having problems? I tried both Dark Knight and Sorceror (each with 4x hitting weapons), and neither of them can seem to survive for long enough to get the job done. What do you guys usually do to guarantee a kill on Grima?

I usually run a tonicked up +Def/-Luk Avatar with a Brave Sword just like you do. Chrom is usually a Great Lord (with pair up boost and a Spd Tonic, Avatar can double without Rally Spd) with a full complement of relevant Tonics and, if my backwards math is correct, 33 Str (dual strikes doing 17 after all that plus Rally Str). There's usually a Rally Mag and Luck in there too, which has Avatar doing a token extra damage on Ignis procs. Luck helps Chrom hit a tiny bit more reliably. My strategy is pretty much just to move everyone up while rallying Avatar, then Dance Avatar. Avatar then runs up, ganks a Berserker, then Galeforces over to Grima and attacks. For enemy phase, the HP Tonic is actually really important here because it helps manipulate Grima's AI, even if he managed to land an Ignis (rather likely). For whatever reason, when Avatar is at a bit more than half HP, Grima will go first in the enemy phase and choose to pick a fight (if less than half, the lackies try to poke Avatar to death).

With a male Avatar, it's a bit trickier getting into range. I think when I did it, I still ganked the Berserker, then hoped for Sol recovery enough during enemy phase that I could still attack Grima and then get attacked back on the next enemy phase. It's a bit fuzzy, since I don't think I ran into too many issues.

Beastkiller++ = Dead Griffon.

It's not that bad in the early game. It's dangerous, sure, but barring Hawkeye, Avatar should be overleveled enough that chances of getting hit should be really low. With my own male Avatar run, I was running Griffon around the same time (chapters 10 through 15) I would be running Dark Flier on a female Avatar and I've never really had any problems.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[FionordeQuester]

Awesome, looks like that did the trick! And, as it turns out, I regret nothing. Yes, the VERY FINAL battle is a little harder without a team...but other than that, I believe I've finally figured out how to make the game a cakewalk even on Lunatic+, and it's all thanks to Sorceror + Forged Nosferatu! In fact, we might not even need Dark Knight! So basically, the path would go as follows...

Tactician(to Chapter 3) > Mercenary (to Chapter 8) > Hero (to Chapter 10, this is where I do Paralogues 2-4 for experience) > Great Knight (to Chapter 13) > Sorceror (to Finale) > Grandmaster (achieve by beating up a bunch of poor dudes in Paralogue 17, with a Forged Rexcalibur).

And of course, I give all the Skill Books and Energy Drops to Chrom at the end. In addition, Lissa will be trained and given a Master Seal since the Finale seems to need at least two competent staff wielders to support you. And the heck of it is, this works even with Male MU. With Female MU, aka, Ms. Galeforce, who knows? The girl would have THREE potential shots at Grima on turn 1, after all (two Player Phases, one Enemy Phase). Only issue is, when's a convenient time to work that skill in? Maybe good level management, and some extra EXP. from Morgan's Paralogue?

EDIT: As for why there's no Gryffon Rider, I just didn't find the skills very helpful. I attempt to assassinate Grima on Player Phase 2 with this strategy, and as long as I have used Boots on my Avatar, I think I'm sitting pretty with, or without Deliverer.

Edited February 24, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Czar_Yoshi]

Awesome, looks like that did the trick! And, as it turns out, I regret nothing. Yes, the VERY FINAL battle is a little harder without a team...but other than that, I believe I've finally figured out how to make the game a cakewalk even on Lunatic+, and it's all thanks to Sorceror + Forged Nosferatu! In fact, we might not even need Dark Knight! So basically, the path would go as follows...

And of course, I give all the Skill Books and Energy Drops to Chrom at the end. In addition, Lissa will be trained and given a Master Seal since the Finale seems to need at least two competent staff wielders to support you. And the heck of it is, this works even with Male MU. With Female MU, aka, Ms. Galeforce, who knows? The girl would have THREE potential shots at Grima on turn 1, after all (two Player Phases, one Enemy Phase). Only issue is, when's a convenient time to work that skill in? Maybe good level management, and some extra EXP. from Morgan's Paralogue?

EDIT: As for why there's no Gryffon Rider, I just didn't find the skills very helpful. I attempt to assassinate Grima on Player Phase 2 with this strategy, and as long as I have used Boots on my Avatar, I think I'm sitting pretty with, or without Deliverer.

If you do Dark Flier, do it early.

So by cakewalk, do you mean extremely consistent (requiring very few resets), or extremely easy to execute/simple in theory (requiring very few complicated maneuvers)? Anyway, nice job.

[FionordeQuester]

So by cakewalk, do you mean extremely consistent (requiring very few resets), or extremely easy to execute/simple in theory (requiring very few complicated maneuvers)? Anyway, nice job.

Both, especially when you get to Sorceror!

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Both, especially when you get to Sorceror!

Well, a (Tact 20 -> Tact 10+ -> GM 10 -> Dark Flier 15) Galeforce Avatar/Chrom duo will start face-rolling pretty hard around the point you would transition to Great Knight. I've done that build (which continues on to Hero 15 -> Paladin 15 -> Dark Knight 1+) in a run where I banned grinding, Bonus Box, Renown, life recovery skills and items (so Sol, Life Taker, Renewal, Relief, Nos or Aversa's Night) and actively using other units (really only somewhat hurts odds against Grima and actually makes other chapters easier). Good positioning and judicious use of Concoctions will carry Avatar to Elixirs, which should then prevent her from ever dying. Anyway, I'm gonna refrain from reiterating too much, as if you're curious, the finer details can be found in my log of the playthrough: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40473&hl=

Anyway, the toughest part of a Lunatic+ run is the early game, with paper-thin player characters and a high density of enemy super soldiers in tight-quarters maps. Once more options open up for the player characters, though, there are many strategies that will get them through the rest of the campaign.

[dudedudedudeo]

When I fought Grima on Lunatic Plus, I was able to one shot him without limit breaker when I went with my Sumia as a Falcon Knight with Gale Force, Lance Faire, and Luna with a Brave Lance [Forged All Might+Hit] and had an S Support with Chrom using his Exalted Falchion [bonus Damage] with the Dual Strike +, Rightful King, and Dual Guard +[i think]. I made full use of every single Rally [besides heart for none DLC]. Thanks to the rallys and support, I was able to get a x4 on Grima with the brave lance. My Ralliers were MU and Cynthia. Max Stats were achieved, since I originally had Limit Breaker on them. However, ONLY Strength, Skill and Speed had a role in this (i thinks)

I’ll give the scenario here:

Turn 1:

Move-Up. Pair UP Chrom onto Sumia. Make sure I’m not in possible range of attack.

Turn 2:

Rally with MU and Cynthia. Then Move up With Sumia and Kill the Berserker in front of Grima. Galeforce lets me move up to Grima and launch an attack with my Brave Lance and Exalted Falchion.

BATTLE SCENARIO:

[dialogue]

Sumia: Luna Activation. Deals 10 Damage, blocked off by Pavise+.

Chrom: Exalted Falchion attack. Deals 28 Damage. Dual Strikes not affected by Pavises.

Sumia: Luna Activation. Deals another 10 damage once again blocked off by Pavise +.

Chrom: Exalted Falchion attack. Deals 28 Damage.

Grima Launches his Expiration. Dual Guarded by Chrom.

Sumia: Luna Activiation. 10 Damage.

Chrom: Exalted Falchion. 28 Damage. Grima has been killed.

[FionordeQuester]

Cool! Though of course, I don't ban Renown items. I mean, it's not something you need an internet connection for, and each mode starts you off with a set amount (in addition to whatever you did on your last finished playthrough), right? So it never seemed like cheating the way stuff like the Outrealms and the Bonus Boxes were.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

The Renown is cumulative across games, so the more you play, the more rewards will be open to you. Depending on just how high that number is, it can skew the game quite a bit. There's plenty of powerful and useful weaponry, not to mention that free stat boosters are a huge deal when characters' stats are barely breaking double digits. The guaranteed Second Seal (available at a paltry 100) is actually really big too, considering a main tank Avatar will quickly hit 20 and start wasting EXP.

I'd also really hesitate to call any of those features cheating. The restrictions I impose are for my own challenge (and originally out of curiosity to see if victory was still possible). In the end, games are typically about personal fun, so I think more than anything, the thing to consider is whether using (or not using) them will detract from your experience.

[FionordeQuester]

The solution to that, I believe, is to calculate how many Renown points you'd have if you blitzed through Lunatic as fast as possible, and did no other playthrough. Then operate as though you only have that number of points when Lunatic+ starts.

EDIT: So, by Chapter 4 on a Lunatic+ playthrough, you'll ALWAYS have at least 300-310 Renown points (depending on whether or not the Finale adds points to your Renown).

Edited February 24, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Interceptor]

The only thing that's "cheating" in Lunatic+, is Lunatic+ itself. Tone gets set pretty early on with the Hawkeye/Luna+ combo enemies. That's the handheld equivalent of a "come at me, bro".

[FionordeQuester]

On the other hand though, you do pretty much get what you asked for. The mode SAYS that it's for "Fire Emblem Masters", and can't even be played without a full playthrough, so I can't fault it for being exactly what you paid for, you know?

[Interceptor]

Oh I definitely agree that Lunatic+ is pretty straightforward about its difficulty level. I'm just saying that there's no reason for a Fire Emblem player to bring a Sword to a map full of Lances, so to speak. The game doesn't leave anything off the table, so why should you?

[FionordeQuester]

Basically so that I know what to tell people who, for whatever reason, don't have internet connection. Also, pride. "Ha ha, I BEAT you WITHOUT this stuff!".

[Czar_Yoshi]

Basically so that I know what to tell people who, for whatever reason, don't have internet connection. Also, pride. "Ha ha, I BEAT you WITHOUT this stuff!".

If they have no internet, they won't excactly be reading about your run, will they? The point of restrictions is really about pushing yourself and having fun.

I personally want to see the day when No Saves/DLC Lunatic+ is possible.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[XeKr]

Re: Renown, the most gamechanging (lowish) award is definitely the Second Seal, because otherwise you wait until near the end of Chapter 8 or get lucky with a Anna shop. And you'll always have that item for Lunatic+ runs.

Other stuff are just nice luxuries to have, particularly the bonus box legendaries for Frederick, or are just RNG (take what you get, imo, much like level ups).

I personally want to see the day when No Saves/DLC Lunatic+ is possible.

All the noteworthy chapters occur in the beginning of the game, so it just requires some brute force there. C2 is the only real barrier anyway, afaik.

It's probably fairly trivial if you're willing to sac characters.

Edited February 25, 2014 by XeKr

[Agent Khaine]

Consider me part of the club. Beat Lunatic Classic in less than a day, and I'm currently pressing through Lunatic+. Obviously, Lunatic+ is taking much, much longer.

For those of you stuck on Ch. 1 of Lunatic FE13 (where you have two forts, a particularly loathing risen with a hammer, remember that one?), I just paired Chrom and Frederick, and placed them on a fort to attract all the trouble. Frederick had MU's sword, so that worked just find against axe-users, and using the elixir from Virion and Chrom and Lissa's Vulnaries solved any damage problems, along with the fort. (Try saving the silver lance for later levels, when you'll really need it.)

On Lunatic+, I did something similar, but with MU and Frederick, as MU was toughened up to level 5 already due to soloing most of the enemies in the Prologue. (MU can go onto the water tiles, while most enemies can't. Just use some healing items when dueling the mages, and have fun picking off their buddies. Pair Frederick up with Chrom, and just have him camp on the water elsewhere. That's not all of the strategy, but it works.)

[FionordeQuester]

On Lunatic+, I did something similar, but with MU and Frederick, as MU was toughened up to level 5 already due to soloing most of the enemies in the Prologue. (MU can go onto the water tiles, while most enemies can't. Just use some healing items when dueling the mages, and have fun picking off their buddies. Pair Frederick up with Chrom, and just have him camp on the water elsewhere. That's not all of the strategy, but it works.)

You didn't get him to Level 7? I find that to be extremely important personally. Well, that, and getting to at least Level 14 by the time you get to Chapter 2.

EDIT: Oh yes, and there was another reason why I didn't use DLC now that I think about it. It's because it's not always going to be available, therefore, I wanted to find strategies that didn't rely on DLC, you know what I mean?

Edited February 27, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[shadowofchaos]

On the other hand though, you do pretty much get what you asked for. The mode SAYS that it's for "Fire Emblem Masters", and can't even be played without a full playthrough, so I can't fault it for being exactly what you paid for, you know?

I know I'm late, but that description is bullcrap.

Equivalent to:

"For those with undying resolve."

[FionordeQuester]

...Huh. That's actually better than the localized message too. That's a bummer.

[dudedudedudeo]

This is why shadowofchaos really makes me want to buy the japanese version of fire emblem awakening. But i have a 300$ field trip i have to pay for, so i cant :o

If you go Lunatic - Lunatic+ - Lunatic (All classic), The second lunatic becomes ridiculously easy.

[......]

I've finally beaten Lunatic+-Casual today.. Shame I didn't get Lunatic+-Classic though, and I don't feel like going through Lunatic-Classic anymore.

[shadowofchaos]

This is why shadowofchaos really makes me want to buy the japanese version of fire emblem awakening. But i have a 300$ field trip i have to pay for, so i cant :o

If you go Lunatic - Lunatic+ - Lunatic (All classic), The second lunatic becomes ridiculously easy.

You mean the really small nitpicks I have of the localized version? >_>;

I really.... wouldn't recommend it (throwing away money just for it) for other people. As long as you won't regret it... I guess it's okay? >_>;

[kusimanse]

Hi serenesforest ^^

I beat lunatic mode about a week ago (woo!), and have been playing lunatic+ since (no dlc). Lunatic+ has been kind of frustrating, I'll play through a level a couple of times to figure out a strategy how to beat it, then after figuring that out, after about 30 turns forget to unequip avatar and splatter myself against counter, then the next time forget to heal for a turn and die, and so on >< It's just really hard not to slip up a little once turn counts get high...

I'm just beat level 5, and am not sure where to go from here...

I managed to grind Donnell to level 10, and the sheer grindyness of doing so also gave my healers a ton of exp.

Here are the main units I'm using, all original classes:

My unit (female, +def/-luck): 20.00

Sully: 15.80

Donnell: 10.02

Liz: 20.00

Mariabelle: 10.37

Chrom: 5.39

Pairings will be chrom/my unit, Sully/Donnell.

My idea was basically to maximize my units with veteran/aptitude, because on lunatic both of those abilities gave my units very high stats compared to the enemey, Donnel was as ridiculous as my unit after promotion. My final core is looking like: my unit, morgan, lucina, donnell, and kjelle. Sully is going to promote to great knight and support Donnel as soon as she gets to level 20, because great knight's stat boosts are great, and dual guard+ seems helpful with hawkeye running around everywhere.

For promotions, I have atm 2 change proofs and 1 master proof (or whatever the english names are, too lazy to look them up). I was thinking going my unit and donnell -> mercenary for armsmith, I'm also really not sure what to do with mariabelle, chrom, and liz.

I might want my unit -> dark mage for general cheesiness, but I don't know how well that will work with counter and luna everywhere.

Also, I want donnell to eventually become a warrior, because counter seems very useful when attacking on the opponents turn is as suicidal as it seems to be on lunatic+. But, I'm kind of worried that my avoiding combat on opponents turn (unequiping/careful placement) will fall apart when promoted enemies start appearing. What would a good path for Donnell to take? Merc->Hero(for sol)-> warrior? Or would merc->fighter->warrior be better, as exp gain would be a lot faster? I'm just worried leveling up with e in both axes and swords won't be fun, especially as he'll be doing enough damage that killing a unit won't take half a weapon level of attacks anymore (atm spear 3/4 of the way to spear level b, lol). It might be worth leveling Donnell to 15 before promotion, his spears are doing actual damage now, he should be lower in level than most enemies, and he should be really hard to hit with his growth rates and all of the avoid boosts.

Finally, should chrom be used at all? Morgan and Lucina will like the boosts, and Chrom has to be used on every map, but Chrom doesn't have any broken abilities like the rest of my main units, and I don't really know what to do with him, his magic sucks and there aren't any physical ranged swords besides for swordsmaster fairly late (and there's only one?). He might suck exp away from everyone else, but with aptitude/veteran I'm not to worried about that.

Sorry for the rambling wall of text ><

^^

[FionordeQuester]

Grindiness huh? Is this with, or without DLC?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Donnel's best class path is Villager (2) -> Bench, or not recruiting him at all. Even once you finally get him traction as a Villager, reclassing causes you to lose all your weapon ranks and start all over. Seriously, he's not worth it. In the event that you *do* decide to use him, Merc -> Hero -> Warrior will pay off more in the end, but you probably won't get to pass Counter to Kjelle.

Lissa should either promote to Sage or reclass to Troubadour (I recommend the former). Maribelle should promote to Valkyrie, possibly gaining a little more exp first. Avatar should either reclass to Merc, or promote and then reclass to Dark Flier at Lv.10. GK will wreck Sully's Spd and make her useless as a combat unit, so don't do that (Paladin is a better option, Aegis can come in handy on Lunatic+ and is much easier to get than Pavise).

Fionorde, I'm guessing Grindiness refers to exp-funneling techniques like the Water trick, setting up a choke to weed out Pass enemies and feed them one at a time to someone, or breaking enemy weapons and boxing Archers.