The Lunatic Club

[Fragile Snow]

Hi everyone, I'm new to lunatic mode so please bear with my newbie questions should one surface.

Anyway, couple of days ago I got bored of how easily my units were stomping on Hard mode. So I decided to try on Lunatic mode. My arse still hurts til this day after playing that mode.

After hours and hours of strategizing, I finally was able to overcome the first five chapters ( chapter five was the easiest, myrmidon RNG dogde OP since it triggered every fight I got into with my Avatar ). Currently on chapter six and I've got some questions about reclassing my Avatar.

When should I reclass him? As in, the appropriate level to reclass. Just pointing out here that the final class I have in mind is Grandmaster.

I have planned out that I go for this kind reclass route (if it's bad or needs tweaking, do speak up) ; Tactician->Myrmidon->Swordmaster->Mercenary->Hero->Grandmaster

And if you're wandering at what level did I reclass my Avatar to myrmidon from tactician, its when I was level 11 with tactician.

[Interceptor]

Myrmidon is not good, so that sets you back more or less immediately. Mercenary is a much stronger class, generally speaking. Unless you are really married to having a Swordmaster, I would reconsider, especially if you are having difficulty.

What you never want to do is reclass from a 2nd tier class to a 1st tier one; going from Swordmaster to Mercenary is a no-no. If you are going to collect skills from 1st tier classes, get them all first before promoting, because Avatar's EXP gain goes into the toilet in Lunatic after a few reclasses because of the cumulative levels, despite Veteran.

The reclass level depends on what your goal is: reclass at 10 (or 15 promoted) if you are just collecting skills, reclass at 20 if you are maximizing stat growth. It's hard to NOT hit 20 Tactician if you are playing semi-optimally (because Avatar is your best earlygame unit to give EXP to), especially since your first Second Seal doesn't come until a few chapters in. I would personally get to 20 Tactician, reclass to your choice of Myrm/Merc, promote to Swordmaster/Hero, stick around long enough to get whatever skills you want and then land in the final Grandmaster class. That's efficient enough such that you can actually train some other units as well.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Interceptor

[Fragile Snow]

I did some reconsidering. Since you said 2nd tier to a 1st tier is a no-no. I'm ditching the Mercenary class ( I probably wont even trigger Armsthrift with my luck even after x2 ) and heading straight for Hero ( I want the Sol skill ) then Grandmaster. How's that?

Also if you would, could you please explain to me ( or atleast, summarize ) what's the cumulative level all about? I think I've read it somewhere but the explanations shown were hard to understand. Especially with the numbers like 20/5 or 10/5 ( I also don't get what those numbers are at all ).

Reclass at 10 for collecting skills and at 20 for stat growth. Noted. Thank you, though I have a question regarding the 'AVO chance'. Currently I have 57 avoid chance (+10 when paired with Lon'qu) but when I reclass to Hero or Grandmaster, will my avoid chance stay as 57 or will it change depending on what class I'm on? This is probably a stupid question but I didn't pay attention to my avoid chance when I reclassed so... ( kind of regret not paying attention ).

[Airship Canon]

Thank you, though I have a question regarding the 'AVO chance'. Currently I have 57 avoid chance (+10 when paired with Lon'qu) but when I reclass to Hero or Grandmaster, will my avoid chance stay as 57 or will it change depending on what class I'm on? This is probably a stupid question but I didn't pay attention to my avoid chance when I reclassed so... ( kind of regret not paying attention ).

Avoid depends on Speed, Luck, Support, and Skills.

Avoid [Displayed] does NOT calculate Support or Skills, although those do show up in the combat forecast.

Avoid = ([speed*3]+[Luck])/2 rounded Down. + Support bonus [0-20] + Skills

Changing you class will affect your AVO if it changes your unit's Speed Stat.

[FionordeQuester]

Ditching Armsthrift? No, no, no, no, no, no, no! That is a TERRIBLE idea! That thing...well I guess it's not need so much in Lunatic, but in Lunatic+, it is desperately important to have a good weapon that won't break on you after just one chapter.

As for the reclass routes, then well, speaking as a guy who just stomped Lunatic+ in less than 5 in-game hours,I would highly advise...

Tactician > Mercenary (Armsthrift and Patience) > Hero (Sol) > Dark Flier (if female, for Galeforce) > Great Knight (Luna) > Grandmaster (Ignis) > Sorceror (Vengeance and Forged Nosferatu).

It really is incredible just how much Nosferatu + Armsthrift + Galeforce trivializes the game. Turns out, even the final boss could easily be one turned with this so long as you forged a Max Hit, 3+ MT Waste, and supplement that with Patience + Luna + Ignis + Galeforce + Patience!

Edited March 2, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Czar_Yoshi]

Internal level: Whenever you reclass (Second Seal) half of your current level (promoted classes count as displayed level+20) is added to your internal level, and your internal level is added to your displayed level (again, +20 for promoted classes) to calculate exp gain. On normal, the IL caps at 20, on Hard it caps at 30 and on Lunatic(+) it caps at 50, which is a huge difference and completely wrecks your exp gain after a few reclasses. In general, it's a good idea in Lunatic to reclass your Avatar into one base class, promote, and then go through one other promoted class before settling on your final class.

When people say 20/5 and the like, it usually refers to what level they reclassed at. A 20/5 Grandmaster leveled Tactician to 20 and is either a Lv.5 Grandmaster currently or reclassed to something else at Lv.5.

[Interceptor]

I did some reconsidering. Since you said 2nd tier to a 1st tier is a no-no. I'm ditching the Mercenary class ( I probably wont even trigger Armsthrift with my luck even after x2 ) and heading straight for Hero ( I want the Sol skill ) then Grandmaster. How's that?

How are you going to get to Hero without going through Mercenary first? Myrmidon can only promote to Swordmaster or Assassin. Merc makes more sense to limit the reclassing you have to do in tier 2, plus Armsthrift is pretty convenient. Grandmaster will take a while to get to if you're going to be going SM -> Hero -> GM.

[XeKr]

I think he already reclassed to Myrm?

Pretty much any reclass with a modest amount of synergy works in Lunatic. Tact->Myrm->SM->Hero->GM is fine, though you might not get that far into GM (depending on how large the team is). Sol + Avoid+10 will be nice for durability. I'll add it might be a good idea to try and get to Hero before the Valm arc (starts around Chapter 12, in full swing by C17), since being sword-locked in the Myrmidon line is not so fun there. Avatar usually has the raw stats to manage though.

It’s also worth noting that something like 10/20 Tactician/Myrm is slightly more efficient on your internal level than 20/10 Tactician/Myrm (if you go all the way to 20/20, your promotion is even more delayed, and I’ve found the later unpromoted levels to be quite slow. 20/19 unpromoted and 10/20/4 promoted both get exp as a level 28, for example.). Given how fast diminishing returns seems to set in and how strong promotion gains are, the 5 internal level difference is noticeable, which is why I usually favor the earlier reclasses myself.

However, overall, it doesn’t really matter too much. The key is just staying in your final unpromoted class as long as possible for the stats, since promoting at 10 or 20 doesn’t matter wrt to your cumulative level.

Edited March 3, 2014 by XeKr

[Fragile Snow]

Avoid depends on Speed, Luck, Support, and Skills.

Avoid [Displayed] does NOT calculate Support or Skills, although those do show up in the combat forecast.

Avoid = ([speed*3]+[Luck])/2 rounded Down. + Support bonus [0-20] + Skills

Changing you class will affect your AVO if it changes your unit's Speed Stat.

I see, thank you for the information, I really needed this! I did some researching and some calculations.... let's just say, I'm not too happy about losing significant avoid chances but I guess Sol will make up for that.

Internal level: Whenever you reclass (Second Seal) half of your current level (promoted classes count as displayed level+20) is added to your internal level, and your internal level is added to your displayed level (again, +20 for promoted classes) to calculate exp gain. On normal, the IL caps at 20, on Hard it caps at 30 and on Lunatic(+) it caps at 50, which is a huge difference and completely wrecks your exp gain after a few reclasses. In general, it's a good idea in Lunatic to reclass your Avatar into one base class, promote, and then go through one other promoted class before settling on your final class.

When people say 20/5 and the like, it usually refers to what level they reclassed at. A 20/5 Grandmaster leveled Tactician to 20 and is either a Lv.5 Grandmaster currently or reclassed to something else at Lv.5.

I think I get it for the Internal level part, as for the general reclass idea, I'll keep that in mind. For the numbers though, I get it now so thank you for that.

How are you going to get to Hero without going through Mercenary first? Myrmidon can only promote to Swordmaster or Assassin. Merc makes more sense to limit the reclassing you have to do in tier 2, plus Armsthrift is pretty convenient. Grandmaster will take a while to get to if you're going to be going SM -> Hero -> GM.

By directly reclassing Swordmaster to Hero. Or is this not allowed in Lunatic?

I think he already reclassed to Myrm?

Pretty much any reclass with a modest amount of synergy works in Lunatic. Tact->Myrm->SM->Hero->GM is fine, though you might not get that far into GM (depending on how large the team is). Sol + Avoid+10 will be nice for durability. I'll add it might be a good idea to try and get to Hero before the Valm arc (starts around Chapter 12, in full swing by C17), since being sword-locked in the Myrmidon line is not so fun there. Avatar usually has the raw stats to manage though.

It’s also worth noting that something like 10/20 Tactician/Myrm is slightly more efficient on your internal level than 20/10 Tactician/Myrm (if you go all the way to 20/20, your promotion is even more delayed, and I’ve found the later unpromoted levels to be quite slow. 20/19 unpromoted and 10/20/4 promoted both get exp as a level 28, for example.). Given how fast diminishing returns seems to set in and how strong promotion gains are, the 5 internal level difference is noticeable, which is why I usually favor the earlier reclasses myself.

However, overall, it doesn’t really matter too much. The key is just staying in your final unpromoted class as long as possible for the stats, since promoting at 10 or 20 doesn’t matter wrt to your cumulative level.

Hero before chapter 12. Gotcha.

Crapppp. I went 11/10 to Swordmaster........... I'm screwed now aren't I? Not even my AVO will help me now I assume....

[Czar_Yoshi]

You're not screwed, your exp gain will just tank sooner which means it's more important to get some more units (the children). Veteran combined with the children's low internal levels and high base stats can boost them to Avatar's power around the time they hit Lv.20 promoted (in ~2 chapters) and from there they can take over as your main units with your Avatar functioning as a wall/decoy to help feed them.

The reason early Hero is important is that there's a lot of Lances in Valm, and your Avo won't work so well against those (plus, Hit+10 starts showing up around then, making dodgetanking much harder) so you want to have ready axe access. Axes and Lances together really are the best, but all the classes that get both of those have weaknesses. You might want to consider using an Arms Scroll (there's one in Cht.15 if you missed the one in Par.4) to get your Avatar to D Axes so you can use Hand Axes, they're quite cheap and useful.

[FionordeQuester]

So I'm a bit confused here. Are you JUST aiming at beating Lunatic+, or do you literally want a Swordmaster build out of personal preference? Because if it's the first, my path will work wonders as well.

In any case, I think I actually found a new, fairly reliable trick to getting Avatar to Level 8.5 in the Prologue, via killing absolutely everything except the Mage. Is this a new method, or has someone else found a similar trick? I don't want to make a thread about it if someone already has, you know?

[kusimanse]

Grindiness huh? Is this with, or without DLC?

Fionorde, I'm guessing Grindiness refers to exp-funneling techniques like the Water trick, setting up a choke to weed out Pass enemies and feed them one at a time to someone, or breaking enemy weapons and boxing Archers.

This, no dlc. Sorry I wasn't that clear><

Donnel's best class path is Villager (2) -> Bench, or not recruiting him at all. Even once you finally get him traction as a Villager, reclassing causes you to lose all your weapon ranks and start all over. Seriously, he's not worth it. In the event that you *do* decide to use him, Merc -> Hero -> Warrior will pay off more in the end, but you probably won't get to pass Counter to Kjelle.

Lissa should either promote to Sage or reclass to Troubadour (I recommend the former). Maribelle should promote to Valkyrie, possibly gaining a little more exp first. Avatar should either reclass to Merc, or promote and then reclass to Dark Flier at Lv.10. GK will wreck Sully's Spd and make her useless as a combat unit, so don't do that (Paladin is a better option, Aegis can come in handy on Lunatic+ and is much easier to get than Pavise).

Thanks! I'll go lissa->sage, maribelle -> valkyrie a bit later, and reclass avatar to merc then.

For donnel, I got an arms scroll (or whatever item levels up weapon skill level) from somewhere(a merchant, I think?). Leveling him up as a mercenary to level 10 isn't going to be fun though. You're probably right that he's not worth it, but I've don't really want to replay the beginning of the game... I just want to get him to be viable as fast as possible, I'm assuming in the end aptitude will make him strong enough that it won't matter. I was thinking merc->fighter might be better because I can promote at level 10, get axes to at least D with rank books, then start using 2 range axes, to get the most level ups possible without really sacrificing growth rates. Finally, I'll probably be passing aptitude, so not getting counter early shouldn't matter.

Finally, I'm still not sure if I should give up on Chrom, or what to do with him if I use him. Is promoting to a great lord worth it?

I see, thank you for the information, I really needed this! I did some researching and some calculations.... let's just say, I'm not too happy about losing significant avoid chances but I guess Sol will make up for that.

I think I get it for the Internal level part, as for the general reclass idea, I'll keep that in mind. For the numbers though, I get it now so thank you for that.

By directly reclassing Swordmaster to Hero. Or is this not allowed in Lunatic?

Crapppp. I went 11/10 to Swordmaster........... I'm screwed now aren't I? Not even my AVO will help me now I assume....

It's allowed! You're just playing lunatic right, not lunatic+? Either way, as czar_yoshi said, just rely more on other units, morgan is even more broken than my unit after they get going. good luck ^ ^

[FionordeQuester]

Cool. And what exactly are your goals? Pure efficiency, or winning with your current plans?

[Fragile Snow]

So I'm a bit confused here. Are you JUST aiming at beating Lunatic+, or do you literally want a Swordmaster build out of personal preference? Because if it's the first, my path will work wonders as well.

In any case, I think I actually found a new, fairly reliable trick to getting Avatar to Level 8.5 in the Prologue, via killing absolutely everything except the Mage. Is this a new method, or has someone else found a similar trick? I don't want to make a thread about it if someone already has, you know?

I'd say a bit of both. I want to beat this Lunatic mode and I also want to do it through this personal build. Y'know, to feel more satisfied since I ( assuming I actually beat the game ) thought of this myself along with some of these helpful tips you've all given me.

Thank you to the people who've given me tips. I'm always open for more so don't hesitate to leave something that you think might help me in my playthrough.

[Interceptor]

By directly reclassing Swordmaster to Hero. Or is this not allowed in Lunatic?

It's allowed, it's just a lot of internal levels to eat on your way there. You're undoubtedly going to hit a wall where EXP is glacial even with Veteran. Unless you're ignoring other units, you may find that you don't make to to Grandmaster until pretty late in the game.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

The gain isn't actually that bad so long as Avatar remains the main tank. For reference, I'll list my usual timelines. Classes will be different, most of what really matters for EXP is how many class changes have happened by point X. Note that this also includes doing Paralogues as soon as or after one chapter of rthem first appearing (I usually gun for Chapter 8 ASAP, for example, in order to get that Master Seal).

Multi-Unit Run (5 combat pairs where 1-2 usually fall off later)

Chapter 5 - Tactician 20 (1st unpromoted)

Chapter 8 - Tactican 10+ (2nd unpromoted) -> Grandmaster (1st promoted)

Chapter 10 - Grandmaster 10 -> Dark Flier (2nd promoted)

Chapter 13 - Dark Flier 15

Chapter 15 - Dark Flier 15+ -> Hero (3rd promoted)

Side note: I usually keep Avatar as a Dark Flier until Chapter 14 is done because it's really helpful to be able to have a powerful flier to one-shot the Pegs with Elwind. A Wyvern Rider Panne can possibly substitute here, but it's riskier. Also, the Arms Scroll shows up in 15 and handling Counter with a 2 range is a pain (and good luck getting the Paralogue 4 one in a multi-unit, assuming you want Anna, who is a ready-to-go staff bot). I usually try to get to the Scroll ASAP so that Hero can pick up a bunch of kill EXP.

Chapter 18 - Hero 15 -> Paladin (4th promoted)

Chapter 20 - Paladin 15 -> Dark Knight (5th promoted)

Avatar and Chrom Wreck the Game

Chapter 3 - Tactician 20 (1st unpromoted)

Side note: I usually hope for an Anna Second Seal. If an Anna Master Seal shows up, though, I'll skip right to Grandmaster. The Renown Second Seal is also an option if run restrictions allow it (I usually do it and dump 2500 gold for speedruns, myself). Also, it's important to save the Door Key from Paralogue 1 for Paralogue 4's Arms Scroll.

Chapter 6 - Tactician 20 (2nd unpromoted)

Chapter 8 - Tactician -> Grandmaster (1st promoted)

Paralogue 4 - Grandmaster 10 -> Dark Flier (2nd promoted; note that this with a duo run makes Chapter 10 hilariously laughable thanks to the flier-only terrain)

Chapter 13 - Dark Flier 20 -> Hero (3rd promoted; flier mobility is still helpful in 13, but don't need to prioritize the Pegs in 14 as much since there's no other units to protect, plus Arms Scroll from Paralogue 4)

Chapter 16 - Hero 15 -> Paladin (4th promoted)

Chapter 18 - Paladin 15 -> Dark Knight (5th promoted)

So with Swordmaster -> Hero -> Grandmaster, Grandmaster would be the third promotion and not actually come out all that late. It is worth noting that with the Swordmaster and Hero Mag caps being kind of terrible, Grandmaster tome damage is going to be a bit weak and a possible liability against Counter (especially without Ignis at first). The reason I stick with Grandmaster as the first promotion is because between Thunder's crit and Ignis proc rate, there's a decent chance of insta-gibbing those unpromoted Counter enemies.

[XeKr]

Crapppp. I went 11/10 to Swordmaster........... I'm screwed now aren't I? Not even my AVO will help me now I assume....

Just don’t early promote Avatar’s children and you should be fine (pass them Veteran). You can also consider using Tiki (her recruitment can be tough, depending on your team, so beware), who fairly easily steamrolls lategame Lunatic with Say’ri support, and/or a few of the other children. Depending on where you’re currently at, training someone like Panne might be helpful too.

My general rule is allowing for 1 unpromoted reclass and 1 promoted reclass, but others may have different thoughts. I like to use a fairly large team, myself (though I also like to transition from parent to children characters as my main fighters, usually using the parents as Pair Up).

Edited March 3, 2014 by XeKr

[FionordeQuester]

You can also consider using Tiki (her recruitment can be tough, depending on your team, so beware)

For reference, in my Lunatic+ run, I had to Staff abuse FIVE magic users to a point where they could 2HKO at least the wyvern riders AND wait until I had gotten Favil and Basilio before I could recruit Tiki.

[XeKr]

It’s easier in Lunatic, since there’s no Pavise/Aegis+ so you can just use (forged) effective weaponry. Just might need Rally Spectrum+Rally Speed+tonics to double (and possibly be unpaired for enough attackers).

Yeah…I wouldn’t actually try tanking them in no-grind Lunatic if you want her early, when the Paralogue opens. And iirc they get Pass on Lunatic+, so you only really have one option there. >_>

[FionordeQuester]

It’s easier in Lunatic, since there’s no Pavise/Aegis+ so you can just use (forged) effective weaponry. Just might need Rally Spectrum+Rally Speed+tonics to double (and possibly be unpaired for enough attackers).

Actually, it was pretty much a must to not have too many Aegis+, though fortunately Rally Spectrum wasn't necessary. I did have an Owaine that had Rally Magic though, and I actually didn't need to worry about whether or not it was optimal to pair up since you only have around 8 effective attackers anyways. One other thing also, at least one of the mages will probably want or need a high Spd pair up partner for doubling (my Lissa, who killed the boss as a Dark Flier, had Lon'qu to give her 7 Speed).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

It's possible to utilize 11 units for combat, provided a little luck and two staff users with 24+ Mag (after tonic) and an ample supply of Rescue Staves. I had six on the left and five on the right and ignored the bottom. Now, the bottom will waypoint straight up the first turn, but then they'll start to deviate and go for Tiki. As long as one team is able to keep one side or the other free, it's possible to ping-pong the central force back and forth and have them never be able to target Tiki (there is some luck involved in that sometimes Tiki will get Rescued to a spot that's in range of an enemy if ranges get too tight). This can continue almost indefinitely so long as the player units can keep up with the rate of reinforcements with little-to-no healing (since the only staff users will be busy protecting Tiki).

[Czar_Yoshi]

In any case, I think I actually found a new, fairly reliable trick to getting Avatar to Level 8.5 in the Prologue, via killing absolutely everything except the Mage. Is this a new method, or has someone else found a similar trick? I don't want to make a thread about it if someone already has, you know?

afaik the current "official strategy" for Prologue gives all but two Myrmidons to Avatar, so that's a step up (as long as it's consistent). Spill the beans, old chap.

[dudedudedudeo]

I went for another Lunatic plus Classic Run, no wireless this time.

I thought i was ding pretty well.

Prologue - I beat with no soft resets and i got good stat boosts + level ups.

Chapter 1 - Also no soft resets. I made one small blunder with trades, but i didnt die so it was fine. Also got good stat boosts and level ups.

But then...

Chapter 2 - I clear out all of the enemies but the boss and one fighter. I nearly had chrom and frederick die several times, but i continuosly prayed to Naga and survived. I was literally shouting for Naga as i survived and killed the enemies. Although i had stahl and vaike die, i never use them anyway, so i didnt really care. i go to attack the last fighter. I should double him with my frederick + avatar combo, and the fighter shouldnt even be able to hit me, with a measley 18% hit chance and 1% crit rate. of course, the fighter has 3 HP left after the first strike then it Luna crits me.

That. was. horrible.

I was betrayed by Naga.

[Fragile Snow]

I went for another Lunatic plus Classic Run, no wireless this time.

I thought i was ding pretty well.

Prologue - I beat with no soft resets and i got good stat boosts + level ups.

Chapter 1 - Also no soft resets. I made one small blunder with trades, but i didnt die so it was fine. Also got good stat boosts and level ups.

But then...

Chapter 2 - I clear out all of the enemies but the boss and one fighter. I nearly had chrom and frederick die several times, but i continuosly prayed to Naga and survived. I was literally shouting for Naga as i survived and killed the enemies. Although i had stahl and vaike die, i never use them anyway, so i didnt really care. i go to attack the last fighter. I should double him with my frederick + avatar combo, and the fighter shouldnt even be able to hit me, with a measley 18% hit chance and 1% crit rate. of course, the fighter has 3 HP left after the first strike then it Luna crits me.

That. was. horrible.

I was betrayed by Naga.

Naga : Oh stop calling me! I'm trying to concentrate on giving you luck here.

*1% crit*

Naga : Woops... S-see?! Look what you've done?!

No really though. 1% crits suck. Especially when they have only 5% hit chance. Screw true hit. (horrible experience)

Edited March 4, 2014 by Fragile Snow

[Mrbrkill]

I decided to start another lunatic play through yesterday, and my avatar got a perfect level up, then immediately got crit on enemy phase and died. I burst out laughing.