grandjackal Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 See man? Told ya recruiting Morgan was a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Morgan's growths after the 20 levels of growth. Hp Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res 21.2 15.6 10.6 15.0 16.2 16.2 11.6 9.20 Assuming that you reclassed him to Cavalier immediately after getting him and using the cavalier growths for the one level you got during Great Knight. @Author: Red Fox At Cavalier base: HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES 35.0 16.0 11.0 12.0 17.0 13.0 14.0 7.0 First stats. His average Great Knight stats at what they should be currently ignoring the Cavalier caps you might have gotten. Second stats. Your chapter 16 finished stats for Morgan. Hp Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res 64.2 36.6 21.6 28.0 32.2 29.2 32.6 17.2 59.0 33.0 18.0 24.0 26.0 25.0 29.0 17.0 Assuming I did this right, you capped Strength, Speed, Skl So ignoring those stats, Morgan is actually under performing in all other stats save for Resistance where he is actually spot on average. Just -10hp, -3 str, -3 skl, -3spd, -6lck, -3 def, -2 res to all of Morgan's stats for if you never trained Donnel at all. I guess other than the lck and Hp, the other stats are not as debilitating. I guess Morgan is usable without having Donnel trained at all. Then again, those general lose to def, spd, and str, might be enough to prevent him from killing stuff in one round. Edited April 12, 2013 by Vorena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Morgan is laughing at everything I can hear him o3o. Now I want to do my own playthrough. Go for it if it interests you; I always like reading playlogs. See man? Told ya recruiting Morgan was a good idea. Hard to argue with results. The guy is Captain Badass right now, and he's not even a Sorcerer. I'm glad that I picked up another Arms Scroll, though; he will want it. Morgan's growths after the 20 levels of growth. Hp Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res 21.2 15.6 10.6 15.0 16.2 16.2 11.6 9.20 Assuming that you reclassed him to Cavalier immediately after getting him and using the cavalier growths for the one level you got during Great Knight. @Author: Red Fox At Cavalier base: HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES 35.0 16.0 11.0 12.0 17.0 13.0 14.0 7.0 First stats. His average Great Knight stats at what they should be currently ignoring the Cavalier caps you might have gotten. Second stats. Your chapter 16 finished stats for Morgan. Hp Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res 64.2 36.6 21.6 28.0 32.2 29.2 32.6 17.2 59.0 33.0 18.0 24.0 26.0 25.0 29.0 17.0 Assuming I did this right, you capped Strength, Speed, Skl So ignoring those stats, Morgan is actually under performing in all other stats save for Resistance where he is actually spot on average. Just -10hp, -3 str, -3 skl, -3spd, -6lck, -3 def, -2 res to all of Morgan's stats for if you never trained Donnel at all. I guess other than the lck and Hp, the other stats are not as debilitating. I guess Morgan is usable without having Donnel trained at all. Then again, those general lose to def, spd, and str, might be enough to prevent him from killing stuff in one round. Did you use Linde's +MAG/-SKL when you calculated the growths? And did you remove the class bonuses from a third of DonneI's bases? I should also mention that I accidentally included the +5 HP for Morgan from the skill that Donnel passed to him as a Fighter (I usually don't include the stat bonuses, but HP is hard to separate if you don't remember it). I feel like the losses might not be quite as bad as that, since one of the casualties of training Donnel is that Linde herself saw less action (so her stats would be higher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Yes, I used the site's growths calculated with +mag and -skl when calculating the stat increases for Morgan. When seeing the stats lost from an untrained Donnel, I removed the class stats before doing the 1/3 of base+growth of stats. The losses are probably that bad without training Donnel. Donnel gains more experience more quickly than your MU would as MU is consistently at a higher level. So, unless you threw MUF into more enemy dense regions to gain more experience than Donnel did, you won't really recuperate those losses. Edited April 12, 2013 by Vorena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Yes, I used the site's growths calculated with +mag and -skl when calculating the stat increases for Morgan. When seeing the stats lost from an untrained Donnel, I removed the class stats before doing the 1/3 of base+growth of stats. The losses are probably that bad without training Donnel. Donnel gains more experience more quickly than your MU would as MU is consistently at a higher level. So, unless you threw MUF into more enemy dense regions to gain more experience than Donnel did, you won't really recuperate those losses. You do realise the site growths are incorrect right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 You do realise the site growths are incorrect right? Does anyone know by how much they are incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Yes, I used the site's growths calculated with +mag and -skl when calculating the stat increases for Morgan. When seeing the stats lost from an untrained Donnel, I removed the class stats before doing the 1/3 of base+growth of stats. OK, good; I didn't check the math, that's why I asked. I guess I should also point out (since it wasn't very obvious in the write-up, now that I am re-reading it) that I didn't wait until level 20 to promote Morgan. Since he was already capping STR/SPD/SKL, I just Seal'ed him during Turn 2 Player Phase, which I believe put him at level 15 or so. The losses are probably that bad without training Donnel. Donnel gains more experience more quickly than your MU would as MU is consistently at a higher level. So, unless you threw MUF into more enemy dense regions to gain more experience than Donnel did, you won't really recuperate those losses. Yeah, that's precisely what I was talking about. Since giving Donnel kills meant keeping him away from dangerous situations, I didn't have many opportunities to just throw Linde into a cloud of enemies. Without the imperative to train Donnel, she would have gotten more levels; probably at the expense of another unit in my army, but it is what it is. EDIT: for reference, another big part of this was Linde's Pair-up bonuses. She has auto-C with Morgan, so: STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES 5 5 4 5 1 2 1 ... that's what she delivers to him as a partner. Edited April 12, 2013 by Interceptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Does anyone know by how much they are incorrect? The way we discovered the flaw was MU getting +2 to HP so I would say they probably range from 0 to 15% (maybe more) off of what they actually are. With 22 levels Morgan's stats could be pretty off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) The way we discovered the flaw was MU getting +2 to HP so I would say they probably range from 0 to 15% (maybe more) off of what they actually are. With 22 levels Morgan's stats could be pretty off. There might be the idea of the dynamic values going around. MU with HP+ according to the site gets 95% which with some emphasis on a dynamic value might account for the +2 levels-ups. While I recall this happening on my own playthroughs, I am not sure how spread out the +2 was against say some levels with no growth. Oh, well. Simply going to have to wait until someone can confirm it otherwise and simply go with it. But, will keep that in mind until such a time. The question I have for you Intercept is how much was Morgan KO'ing with the Pair-up bonuses? Where they pretty close to ORKOs on the verge of 2RKOs with javelin or any doubling problems? I am not sure the enemy stats of chapter 16. Edited April 12, 2013 by Vorena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 The question I have for you Intercept is how much was Morgan KO'ing with the Pair-up bonuses? Where they pretty close to ORKOs on the verge of 2RKOs with javelin or any doubling problems? I am not sure the enemy stats of chapter 16. Hmm, unfortunately I don't have a save at chapter 16 anymore, so I couldn't tell you exactly. The promoted enemies are -/3 in Chapter 17 though, so they were no higher than that. The unpromoted enemies were limited by their level; Morgan took care of them no problem. He was borderline on Heroes: needed the SPD Tonic to double at first (so did Sully), and did not cleanly ORKO them (or any promoted enemies, for that matter). He was roughly 64% ORKO on things he doubled, due to 40% chance of Dual Strike from Linde. It's possible that the loss of stats from Donnel would have required boosters to get him over the hump, like Naga's or the generics ones. Then again, I also didn't need to three-turn this chapter, it just happened to work out pretty well due to what he had available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) There might be the idea of the dynamic values going around. MU with HP+ according to the site gets 95% which with some emphasis on a dynamic value might account for the +2 levels-ups. While I recall this happening on my own playthroughs, I am not sure how spread out the +2 was against say some levels with no growth. Oh, well. Simply going to have to wait until someone can confirm it otherwise and simply go with it. But, will keep that in mind until such a time. The question I have for you Intercept is how much was Morgan KO'ing with the Pair-up bonuses? Where they pretty close to ORKOs on the verge of 2RKOs with javelin or any doubling problems? I am not sure the enemy stats of chapter 16. the dynamic growths thing turned out to be a really lame joke Edited April 12, 2013 by shadykid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 OP updated with Chapter 17. This log is going to be drawing to a rapid close, I think; Morgan is just a beast. [spoiler=Chapter 17, Inexorable Death] The nature of the rest of the game is taking shape at this point; MorganxLinde is simply unstoppable. Although this map has treasure on it, there's nothing that I really care for (Boots are nice, but I wouldn't be giving them to anyone anyway), so it's a straight training map while Morgan blasts his way to the boss. NowixGregor take the left hand side (she has stopped doubling now, and needs a little bit more training before her reclass), ChromxSully handle the middle with help from Sumia, and MorganxLinde handle the right hand side. I give Morgan a quick Dance (Olivia rescued out of the way afterwards) in order to break through and barrel towards the boss. He cleanly ORKOs everything with Javelins, including the boss, which is a little bit absurd. Actually, that's a lot absurd. Turns (Chapter/Total): 4/97 Heroes: Linde & Morgan Funds: 51,069G Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 19.90 34 18 4 15 15 16 17 6 A Sword S Sully Sully 8.45 46 23 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 10.79 44 25 24 16 27 16 20 15 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 7.89 60 38 20 28 31 29 33 19 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 28.74 56 22 9 19 15 19 18 16 - S Gregor Cordelia 5.51 45 21 13 24 24 16 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 2.93 34 14 9 25 28 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.53 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 13.25 33 13 1 15 11 8 11 2 B Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 4.97 39 13 20 26 23 28 10 11 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C Linde MorganxLinde built to B-rank. I am compressing/splitting the stat chart up at this point, since realistically the list of actually-used units is very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 OP updated with Chapters 18, 19, and 20. Not much to them. [spoiler=Chapter 18, Sibling Blades] MorganxLinde rush straight down the middle at the boss. I get a little EXP into Nowi, Cordelia, and Chrom (who promotes). I ignore the treasure. I have a feeling that these write-ups are going to be really short from now on. Turns (Chapter/Total): 6/103 Heroes: Linde & Morgan Funds: 51,069G Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 1.62 40 23 4 18 18 16 21 10 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 9.29 47 24 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 11.66 45 25 24 17 27 17 21 15 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 13.70 66 43 24 31 36 34 36 22 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 2.60 60 24 9 21 15 22 20 18 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 13.82 33 13 1 15 11 8 11 2 B Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C Linde [spoiler=Chapter 19, The Conquerer] SullyxChrom left fort, NowixGregor upper right, LindexMorgan straight up the middle towards Walhart. Mash the START button. There's a high chance that Walhart dies during Turn 2 Enemy Phase, but he managed to dodge one of Linde's Dual Strikes. Just as well, means more EXP for everyone. Turns (Chapter/Total): 3/106 Heroes: Gregor & Nowi Funds: 51,069G Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 3.68 42 23 4 20 19 16 23 11 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 9.81 47 24 9 27 21 22 22 13 B Sword, A Lance S Chrom Linde 12.27 46 26 24 17 27 17 21 16 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 17.74 70 46 24 31 39 36 38 24 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc B Linde No One Will Interfere 10.37 68 27 10 25 17 28 25 23 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 14.31 34 13 1 16 12 9 12 2 A Sword S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C Linde Gregor hits A-rank Sword. This is impressive for someone who hasn't seen Lead unit combat for the entire game. [spoiler=Chapter 20, The Sword of the Knee] I promoted Gregor to Bow Knight, because why not. Nowi doesn't need the extra durability anymore, it gives the same SPD/SKL as Hero, but also has +1 MV and the option for 8MV on the first turn. I had to go back to Southtown to buy him a bow that he could equip. NowixGregor and LindexMorgan blast their way up the center of the map. Nowi takes most of the abuse, and uses her Player Phase to clear space for Morgan to get through. Walhart dies on Turn 4 (another chapter where if he had not dodged Linde's Dual Strike, it would have been a Turn earlier). SullyxChrom just mess around on the wings and kill whatever they can for EXP. Turns (Chapter/Total): 4/110 Heroes: Gregor & Nowi Funds: 51,069G Lvl HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WExp Support Chrom 4.31 43 24 4 21 20 16 23 11 A Sword, E Lance S Sully Sully 11.48 49 24 10 29 23 22 23 13 A Sword/Lance S Chrom Linde 12.50 46 26 24 17 27 17 21 16 D Sword, A Tome S Donnel + others Morgan 20.00 73 47 24 31 39 38 41 25 E Swd/Axe, A Lnc A Linde No One Will Interfere 16.58 75 33 13 28 20 33 29 24 - S Gregor Cordelia 7.44 47 21 13 26 26 17 16 14 A Lance, E Staff S Kellam Sumia 3.70 35 15 9 26 29 22 11 18 A Lance, E Staff S Fred, C Linde Donnel 1.95 34 16 1 14 14 20 12 5 D Axe S Linde, C others Kellam 8.61 24 11 1 9 8 3 14 2 C Lance S Cordelia + others Gregor 1.48 40 16 1 18 15 9 13 4 A Sword, E Bow S N.O.W.I. Libra 3.31 41 14 17 14 15 10 11 17 C Axe/Staff Anna 5.70 40 14 21 27 23 29 11 12 C Sword, D Staff Lucina 11.72 32 15 4 17 16 15 14 7 C Sword Frederick 10.71 37 15 2 18 14 7 18 6 C Swd, A Axe/Lance S Sumia, C Linde LindexMorgan is now A-rank, and Morgan is capped at level 20 GK. I'm not sure whether I want to try another class, or just stick with GK (reclass) since it has the highest STR cap. Gregor somehow managed to make it almost to D Bows; apparently you get WEXP for tinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Quick shots: Ch21, 5 Turns, Gregor & Nowi Ch22, 2 Turns, Linde & Morgan Ch23, 4 Turns, Gregor & Nowi -- Basically GregorxNowi and MorganxLucina went nuts on everything in this chapter while AvatarxChrom watched/applauded. Nowi is once again consistently doubling everything. Ch24, 6 Turns, Linde & Morgan -- an extremely annoying chapter because of reinforcements. Not worth re-doing to block the forts. Ch25, 5 Turns, Linde & Morgan -- made no attempt to do anything else but bulldoze my way at Aversa. Didn't use fliers, Rescue, or Dance to speed it up. Endgame, 1 turn -- a simple Rescue maneuver where Nowi made a hole, and MorganxChrom ran in with a Brave Lance for the kill. Fin. The takeaways: Frederick: totally useless once the promoted enemies show up. Distance that I dragged him past midgame: nowhere. Relegated to Pair-Up bot only. Sully evaluation: an altogether excellent unit. She fell off late for me, mostly because I stopped training her. Sumia vs. Cordelia: depends on how you rate Sumia's earlygame. Cordelia is unequivocally the better combatant, and has no trouble keeping up with whatever that Sumia is able to put together prior to her recruitment. I feel like Cord would have done a bit better if I had given her a better partner (like Stahl). Kellam never even managed to get high enough level for a Master Seal. Donnel: not possible to make him something useful when moving at a fast pace. This was with giving him the best support partner, and as many kills as I could afford. He's garbage. G-A-R-B-A-G-E. N.O.W.I. is unbelievably good in Hard Mode. Immediately useful, and lots of clutch performances all the way to the end. And this was with her being slightly SPD screwed. Morgan was sneaky-good because of Aptitude. This was unexpected. I'll post the final stats later, when the forums stop being broken. Edited April 14, 2013 by Interceptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) What do you think about Anna and Libra? Edited April 14, 2013 by Maiden_of_Emblem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Didn't even notice you used Libra lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 What do you think about Anna and Libra? Both of them are good, I just didn't use them heavily. Libra's use was mostly as a Physic/Ward bot (because he starts with C staves) and occasional Rescue (his MAG is good). Anna I only used as a thief and Rescue station (her MAG wound up being better than Libra's), although she's a good combatant. I just had too many people already being trained to use either of them to fight with. In hindsight, I should have just stuck with one of them, because it's really hard to get someone to A staves unless you drop Arms Scrolls and/or dedicate yourself to training just that one unit. At least I never actually needed Fortify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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