The Boy

[eclipse]

While Lifey could've worded that better, it was the kick this topic needed to become a true discussion. Things in public are just that - in public. Imagine if one of your bullies saw this rant, printed it, and posted it throughout your school. It's a worse-case scenario, but stuff like that happens. While I can understand why you'd want to draw attention to yourself, I still stand by the belief that this should be handled by people in your area who are trained to handle such things. Unlike the Internet, people like counselors are bound by law not to say anything about you.

[Dwalin2010]

I was told I had Asperger's growing up too.

You are talking in the past. As far as I get it, Asperger's syndrome is a thing you either have or don't have, not something you can have once and then don't have anymore. Rebuking somebody with Asperger's for complaining with difficulties in social interaction makes as much sense as rebuking somebody with pneumonia for coughing.

And please, whoever thinks this topic is useless, read the description of what Asperger's syndrome actually is before accusing him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

If it's so difficult to express normal human compassion on a forum, what will you do if somebody in real life ever turns to you for help?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Dwalin2010

[Redwall]

Dan, I suggest you edit your first post to remove your full name, for the reasons eclipse mentioned.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Redwall

[Dwalin2010]

While Lifey could've worded that better

Just out of curiosity: who is Lifey? Nobody with this nick so far has participated.

[Sublime Manic]

You are talking in the past. As far as I get it, Asperger's syndrome is a thing you either have or don't have, not something you can have once and then don't have anymore. Rebuking somebody with Asperger's for complaining with difficulties in social interaction makes as much sense as rebuking somebody with pneumonia for coughing.

And please, whoever thinks this topic is useless, read the description of what Asperger's syndrome actually is before accusing him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

If it's so difficult to express normal human compassion on a forum, what will you do if somebody in real life ever turns to you for help?

Ah! The person who complained when Eclipse pointed out the first post featured self pity and equated it with kicking someone in the stomach. Hyperbole much? Eclipse wasn't attacking. She was pointing out something true. I feel like I did the same. Pointing out things that are true does not mean you're attacking someone.

I'm talking in the past… and? The original post is one big summary of someone's past. I never said I ceased to have it or turned out not to have it. And when did anyone complain about his difficulty with social interaction? Not once in this thread that I've noticed. It's been pointed out repeatedly that this thread was asking for attention, which it is, despite the OP's claim that it isn't.

Frankly, compassion isn't always the best way to help someone. Trying to promote compassion is promoting the coddling that doesn't actually help. They don't need your pity party.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Sublime Manic

[eclipse]

If it's so difficult to express normal human compassion on a forum, what will you do if somebody in real life ever turns to you for help?

The difference between real life and a forum is that there's no written record of it. I will also feel the consequences more keenly if I betray that person's trust. There is a time and place for everything, and spilling one's guts to the world (complete with written record) isn't something that I think is a good idea. For personal issues, work it out with those who MUST keep their silence.

EDIT: Lifey = the guy who posted the loudest, most dissenting opinion. Mouse over someone's name, and click on Name History.

Edited May 18, 2013 by eclipse

[Dwalin2010]

Ah! The person who complained when Eclipse pointed out the first post featured self pity and equated it with kicking someone in the stomach.

Actually, I was replying to TrickyDick when I used the words "kicking in the stomach". When replying to Eclipse I didn't say that, as she has been more moderate.

[Makaze]

You are talking in the past. As far as I get it, Asperger's syndrome is a thing you either have or don't have, not something you can have once and then don't have anymore. Rebuking somebody with Asperger's for complaining with difficulties in social interaction makes as much sense as rebuking somebody with pneumonia for coughing.

And please, whoever thinks this topic is useless, read the description of what Asperger's syndrome actually is before accusing him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

If it's so difficult to express normal human compassion on a forum, what will you do if somebody in real life ever turns to you for help?

Flaw #1: He/she is implying that being told at an early age is something they have in common. He/she did not imply that it went away.

Flaw #2: His/her post was for the most part neutral. At no point did they express the notion that compassion cannot be allowed. They expressed that dissenting opinions were being shut down by people like you. You condemn others for being heartless at the first sign of criticism.

Flaw #3: Having been diagnosed with Aspergers, you should assume that they will understand it at a far deeper level than a Wikipedia summary.

/late

Edited May 18, 2013 by Makaze

[Green Poet]

Dan, I suggest you edit your first post to remove your full name, for the reasons eclipse mentioned.

This. Now that I think about it, it's a disconcerting possibility. As aforementioned, you're not particularly needing for the narrative effect anymore, either.

[Dwalin2010]

Flaw #1: He/she is implying that being told at an early age is something they have in common. He/she did not imply that it went away.

Flaw #2: His/her post was for the most part neutral. At no point did they express the notion that compassion cannot be allowed. What they expressed was that dissenting opinions were being shut down by people like you. You condemn others for being heartless at the first sign of criticism.

Flaw #3: Having been diagnosed with Aspergers, you should assume that they will know it at a far deeper level than a Wikipedia summary.

/late

1) All right, then I got it wrong.

2) Can't help it. My feeling that I am sorry for those who have suffered is stronger than my respect for the opinions of those who criticize them.

3) This was a suggestion to read for other posters who criticized, not for Sublime Manic.

[Dandragon]

While Lifey could've worded that better, it was the kick this topic needed to become a true discussion. Things in public are just that - in public. Imagine if one of your bullies saw this rant, printed it, and posted it throughout your school. It's a worse-case scenario, but stuff like that happens. While I can understand why you'd want to draw attention to yourself, I still stand by the belief that this should be handled by people in your area who are trained to handle such things. Unlike the Internet, people like counselors are bound by law not to say anything about you.

I could not care less if people talked about me behind my back at this point and, once again, I'm not trying to draw attention to myself. I did this to VENT. Nothing more. How many times must I say that. I knew that people would find this and I knew people would respond, but what I did was to release the bottled up emotions I had.

As more counselors, I've gone to them before, and all I get is "While your life sucks, you need to change." While it is logical for this response, as the saying goes "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", I went to them for emotional support AS WELL AS advice.

If I'm starting to sound angry, I am a little bit and I apologize. I guess I can start a discussion then.

"What do you do when the adults in your life, specifically the ones who are there to help you, do nothing?"

[eclipse]

Have your parents talk to the principal regarding the poor treatment of the counselors. If the principal won't move, escalate it to the school board.

[Sublime Manic]

Actually, I was replying to TrickyDick when I used the words "kicking in the stomach". When replying to Eclipse I didn't say that, as she has been more moderate.

You're right. My bad. I apologize. I'd just taken note that any time someone said something that wasn't explicitly sympathetic, you criticized them for it. If everyone just told the OP how sorry they are for them, though, very little would be accomplished. For the most part, people making these critiques are not playing villains.

Flaw #1: He/she is implying that being told at an early age is something they have in common. He/she did not imply that it went away.

Flaw #2: His/her post was for the most part neutral. At no point did they express the notion that compassion cannot be allowed. What they expressed was that dissenting opinions were being shut down by people like you. You condemn others for being heartless at the first sign of criticism.

Flaw #3: Having been diagnosed with Aspergers, you should assume that they will know it at a far deeper level than a Wikipedia summary.

/late

Late, but entirely spot-on.

[Dandragon]

No. But this is because i feel that it is neither mine nor my parents to decide how someone does their job. Their quality is not poor, but this is what talking to them generally boils down to. They will talk about doing something about students, but this generally changes nothing.

I realize this is my fault for not saying anything, but I feel that I should not do this if it's just for one case out of the many that they would have to deal with. I'm not special in this regard, I just get the wrong treatment and I have a hard time saying that to people.

[Makaze]

1) All right, then I got it wrong.

2) Can't help it. My feeling that I am sorry for those who have suffered is stronger than my respect for the opinions of those who criticize them.

3) This was a suggestion to read for other posters who criticized, not for Sublime Manic.

Your emotions are getting in the way of sound reasoning. The minute someone says something that is not 100% supportive, you shut it down. The OP may have an easier time dismissing it as a result of your defense, causing the advice to become null.

You are discounting other attempts at helping the subject.

My bad on the third point.

Have your parents talk to the principal regarding the poor treatment of the counselors. If the principal won't move, escalate it to the school board.

It seems easier to hire a private therapist than to go through all of that trouble, doesn't it? Unless money is the issue?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Makaze

[Redwall]

It sounds like you need to find better counselors. Would you feel comfortable being counseled by someone at your parents' church?

[Chiki]

At my uni, my advisor has a daughter with Asperger's who managed to start acting relatively normally in social situations thanks to counselors and other sorts of treatments. I believe they involved behavioral training (talking to people more and more often over a period of time, and so on). I suggest you look for similar treatments.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Olwen

[eclipse]

No. But this is because i feel that it is neither mine nor my parents to decide how someone does their job. Their quality is not poor, but this is what talking to them generally boils down to. They will talk about doing something about students, but this generally changes nothing.

I realize this is my fault for not saying anything, but I feel that I should not do this if it's just for one case out of the many that they would have to deal with. I'm not special in this regard, I just get the wrong treatment and I have a hard time saying that to people.

Your counselors need to be fighting for you, not simply handing down empty promises. If nothing is changing, they are not doing their job, and it is well within your rights to call them out on it. The first step to getting yourself out of this hole is convincing yourself that you're worth fighting for!

I do not know if they're legally able to refer you to a doctor, but I can find out on Monday, assuming I'm well enough to go to work.

It seems easier to hire a private therapist than to go through all of that trouble, doesn't it? Unless money is the issue?

The bullying needs to be resolved within the school. The counselors sound like they're not getting down to the heart of the matter, and this doesn't sound right.

Edited May 18, 2013 by eclipse

[Makaze]

It sounds like you need to find better counselors. Would you feel comfortable being counseled by someone at your parents' church?

In my experience, this is a bad idea. Churches offer a specific brand of counseling and have been known to explain abnormal personalities with spiritual problems (depending in the church). Furthermore, churches encourage faith, which is a form of emotional co-dependence focused on beliefs.

Not that psychology is an exact science by itself, but still. Don't want to bring in those factors if you can help it.

[Dwalin2010]

Your emotions are getting in the way of sound reasoning. The minute someone says something that is not 100% supportive, you shut it down. The OP may have an easier time dismissing it as a result of your defense, causing the advice to become null.

You are discounting other attempts at helping the subject.

If somebody isn't 100% supportive AND is offering some advice, it's one thing. But just saying things like "boo fucking hoo" etc is a different thing.

No person writes such a post as the Dandragon01's if they haven't already heard all kind of non-supporting stuff and just want a little sincere friendship. I agree that only saying sorry and not offering advice may not be a good solution, but there is nothing wrong with a certain dose of compassion anyway. If somebody doesn't feel it and is only disgusted, what's the point of posting in the thread? If somebody opens a topic about Warcraft 3 and I am not a fan of the game, I simply won't post there, instead of going there complaining how bad the game is. I am not very good with metaphors, but I think you get what I am saying.

[Chiki]

Bullying is a part of primate sociality. All primates are going to pick on the weaker, more timid person. Asking for a school without bullying is like asking for Nazi Germany with Jews. It's not going to work.

[eclipse]

Bullying is a part of primate sociality. All primates are going to pick on the weaker, more timid person. Asking for a school without bullying is like asking for Nazi Germany with Jews. It's not going to work.

Source: Yourself, whatever you're qualified to speak on.

I work at a school, and we are supposed to respond to bullying incidents. If I was aware of an instance of bullying, and didn't respond to it, I'd be in a world of trouble.

[Redwall]

In my experience, this is a bad idea. Churches offer a specific brand of counseling and have been known to explain abnormal personalities with spiritual problems (depending in the church). Furthermore, churches encourage faith, which is a form of emotional co-dependence focused on beliefs.

Not that psychology is an exact science by itself, but still. Don't want to bring in those factors if you can help it.

It depends. I'm not religious, but have had a good experience with being counseled by someone through a church.

Dan, if you don't feel comfortable with being counseled by someone at your parents' church, you should convince your parents to provide the money to hire a private counselor.

[Dwalin2010]

I work at a school, and we are supposed to respond to bullying incidents. If I was aware of an instance of bullying, and didn't respond to it, I'd be in a world of trouble.

Good to hear it, as I tend to share Olwen's point of view about schools.

[Makaze]

If somebody isn't 100% supportive AND is offering some advice, it's one thing. But just saying things like "boo fucking hoo" etc is a different thing.

No person writes such a post as the Dandragon01's if they haven't already heard all kind of non-supporting stuff and just want a little sincere friendship. I agree that only saying sorry and not offering advice may not be a good solution, but there is nothing wrong with a certain dose of compassion anyway. If somebody doesn't feel it and is only disgusted, what's the point of posting in the thread? If somebody opens a topic about Warcraft 3 and I am not a fan of the game, I simply won't post there, instead of going there complaining how bad the game is. I am not very good with metaphors, but I think you get what I am saying.

Only one post all of those you countered offered no advice with its criticism.

Source: Yourself, whatever you're qualified to speak on.

I work at a school, and we are supposed to respond to bullying incidents. If I was aware of an instance of bullying, and didn't respond to it, I'd be in a world of trouble.

Have you tried responding to it minimally? Do you know anyone who has gotten into trouble for doing so?

Edited May 18, 2013 by Makaze