Generic General Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Many (me included) argue that in FE13 pair up is too overpowered, and I think the most imbalanced aspect of pairing up is dual strike. At first, it seems like a rare occasion, but after your units reach max supports it will activate almost every time. When both units are equipped with brave weapons, things become even more... chaotic. You can effectively perform 12 attacks in one turn! How to nerf this, you say? The supporting unit should only be able to attack once the attacking unit has finished ALL the attacks possible. Also, two of your units teaming up on one enemy seems too unfair. So, would you want dual strike to stay in the next FE? Edited May 30, 2013 by DarkKnightHenry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nébulya Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Why nerf it? That's a good feature, so this is ok. The only thing that would be awesome, would be the possibility for the ennemies to do the same as the players. ! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only My Unit Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Dual Strike is the mechanic of champions. Just give the enemies the ability to pair up. No nerfing required. Just jack up the stat cap or something if you wanna worry about everyone dying to fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) It's the only way to get through Pavise+ and Aegis+, and most of the time, Counter. You NEED it for Lunatic+ Mode. Edited May 30, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 When people say Pair Up is too overpowered, I'm pretty sure Dual Strike is part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 When people say Pair Up is too overpowered, I'm pretty sure Dual Strike is the main part of that. fixed the two attacks from a brave weapon should function like Aether, can't dual strike until after the second hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Personally I prefered the old system in terms of combat, but I much prefer building supports the FE:A way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic General Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 the two attacks from a brave weapon should function like Aether, can't dual strike until after the second hit Yeah, that would make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Meh, the mechanic is just a massive pain. It's activation rate is never high enough to rely on it and never so low that it can be ruled out. Given the massive emphasis on defensive play in this installment, the latter is particularly annoying. It makes the game uncontrollable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Meh, the mechanic is just a massive pain. It's activation rate is never high enough to rely on it and never so low that it can be ruled out. Given the massive emphasis on defensive play in this installment, the latter is particularly annoying. It makes the game uncontrollable. ..... .....what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 ..... .....what? You act pretty surprised at that. Why do you think Sol is such a sought after skill? Why Nosferatanks and Manaketanks are two of the best character builds? Why defensive stats are valued more than offensive stats for pretty much the first time ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missile Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Meh, the mechanic is just a massive pain. It's activation rate is never high enough to rely on it and never so low that it can be ruled out. Given the massive emphasis on defensive play in this installment, the latter is particularly annoying. It makes the game uncontrollable. This, there is just too much luck involved with that and the offensive skills ._. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 You act pretty surprised at that. Why do you think Sol is such a sought after skill? Why Nosferatanks and Manaketanks are two of the best character builds? Why defensive stats are valued more than offensive stats for pretty much the first time ever? I don't know if you've noticed, but Sorcerors and Mercenaries aren't exactly ranked highly, and Rescue+Galeforce means later bosskill chapters don't even see an enemy phase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Only if you care about LTC, which most people don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Only if you care about LTC, which most people don't. I hate to break it to you, but the same combo trivializes everything including Apotheosis, so it's just more offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Meh, the mechanic is just a massive pain. It's activation rate is never high enough to rely on it and never so low that it can be ruled out. Given the massive emphasis on defensive play in this installment, the latter is particularly annoying. It makes the game uncontrollable. You can simply Switch to the secondary character, unequip his or her weapon, and then switch back to avoid unwanted Dual Attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 ... do people in this thread realize that you don't need to be Paired-up to get Dual Strike/Guards? They are separate mechanics. A unit's Support partner just gets priority for those things, if they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 ... do people in this thread realize that you don't need to be Paired-up to get Dual Strike/Guards? They are separate mechanics. A unit's Support partner just gets priority for those things, if they exist. they almost always are though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic General Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 ... do people in this thread realize that you don't need to be Paired-up to get Dual Strike/Guards? They are separate mechanics. A unit's Support partner just gets priority for those things, if they exist. I'm pretty sure we are discussing dual strike here, not pair up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I hate to break it to you, but the same combo trivializes everything including Apotheosis, so it's just more offense I hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure Apotheosis is a rout, not a boss kill, and also requires slightly more powerful units than that. And the stuff I named requires less resources and preparation to work reliably - it can be pulled off a lot more efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure Apotheosis is a rout, not a boss kill, and also requires slightly more powerful units than that. And the stuff I named requires less resources and preparation to work reliably - it can be pulled off a lot more efficiently. yes it's a rout the best way to clear it is with pure offense by rolling over as many enemies as possible on player phase*, then moving on to the next set of enemies Nosferatu/Manaketes works against this, because non-brave weapons tend to leave enemies alive *on the alternate route, normal route is stupid ....more importantly, on Brightbow's original point, most tactics don't even require more than 1 dual strike by endgame Edited May 30, 2013 by shadykid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 ...The problem with Dual Anything and Pair Up is simple: It's a PLAYER ONLY MECHANIC. It's like queens in Chess. If one player had queens and the other could never have them, it wouldn't be fair at all. But wait, the moment both sides are on an equal footing, suddenly you guessed it, there's balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 ...The problem with Dual Anything and Pair Up is simple: It's a PLAYER ONLY MECHANIC. It's like queens in Chess. If one player had queens and the other could never have them, it wouldn't be fair at all. But wait, the moment both sides are on an equal footing, suddenly you guessed it, there's balance. there's always Lunatic+ and it's enemy-only mechanics then again, balancing an overpowered ability with more overpowered abilities ends in......that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 In my first few hours of play, I despised Dual Strike. I was walling a bridge, and one of my units was at low enough HP that he could only survive one attack. OK, he can't kill the enemy, though, so only one attack will hit him, right? Wrong. Screw you, Chrom. Anyways, of course Dual Strike is OP. It's also luck-based, and encourages early S-ranking, although that's neither here nor there. If it's gonna stay, make it work for the enemies too, even if they don't get Pair-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnel Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Why is there players asking for nerf in a single player game? Request for harder materials yes, but why ask for devalues? Can't they just leave us alone? Dual strike is fun, Dual Guard is more fun. You don't need pair up for dual striking. Double bow Chrom with Dual Strike+, Dual Guard+, Charm surrounded with 4 A/S rank characters with Dual Support+ -> Fortress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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