Anouleth Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 My bad. I didn't know it was against the rules to speculate on what happened.Speculation is one thing, but you basically rolled in here and declared that there was at least an 80% chance that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. Based on what? The fact that Martin smokes weed and has an interest in guns, and has a history of violence? Clearly, Zimmerman also has an interest in guns (he was carrying one with him, after all!) and he also has a history of violence. Guns and weed are not exactly rare pasttimes among Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Speculation is one thing, but you basically rolled in here and declared that there was at least an 80% chance that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. Based on what? The fact that Martin smokes weed and has an interest in guns, and has a history of violence? Clearly, Zimmerman also has an interest in guns (he was carrying one with him, after all!) and he also has a history of violence. Guns and weed are not exactly rare pasttimes among Americans. Typical people here making a big deal out of nothing. I said it was arbitrary, didn't I? It's just my personal opinion. My guess is that Martin started a fight, but I honestly don't care whether or not Zimmerman did. Edited June 28, 2013 by Chiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Martin most likely did attack Zimmerman (I'll give it a completely arbitrary 80% chance or so). Did you see the stuff on his phone? He was a gangster, involved in drugs and fights and so on. How does this come off as a personal opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I'll give it a completely arbitrary 80% chance or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 That wasn't even the part I was contending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I hope they throw Zimmerman in jail and throw away the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) There's an implication when one uses percentage to describe likelihood that they're trying to claim actual statistical significance, such that it doesn't really jive with prefacing it with "completely arbitrary," even if you were trying to use that as a disclaimer. That's not what you meant to say, so I don't want to pick on you for it, it's just that it's easy to misunderstand what you were trying to say because of how you said it. Anyway, on the Zimmerman case in particular, I think the sources I've listened to the most on it were a bit guilty of sensationalism themselves, in that they focused more on how much money was being raised to get Zimmerman out of hot water in what they considered a surreptitious way (by vested interests like gun lobbies, rich white dudes with money who want the whole thing to go away or something etc) than on the known facts of the altercation and the known character/motive of him and Martin. They also gave the implication that Martin was minding his own business and that Zimmerman chased after him without exactly proving it, and now that I've heard that may not be the case, I'm not sure what to think of it. By this point, my assumption is that it's a case caught up in fights bigger than just determining who killed who and why. (my guess is that's a possible part of, if not the reason, why it has gotten so polarized) Edited June 28, 2013 by Rehab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Typical people here making a big deal out of nothing. I said it was arbitrary, didn't I? It's just my personal opinion.Yeah, and when you throw your opinion out like that, you should expect people to rip it apart unless it's actually well-thought out and backed up by real evidence. Placing the word "arbitrary" in front of it is not going to stop people, especially when you show that it isn't arbitrary by giving some evidence. And people weren't ripping into your "80%". They were ripping into the part where you said that it was very likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman because he smoked weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Yeah, and when you throw your opinion out like that, you should expect people to rip it apart unless it's actually well-thought out and backed up by real evidence. Placing the word "arbitrary" in front of it is not going to stop people, especially when you show that it isn't arbitrary by giving some evidence. And people weren't ripping into your "80%". They were ripping into the part where you said that it was very likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman because he smoked weed. Arbitrary means by definition that it's not well evidenced, which means that I granted it to you already. You're starting a debate out of nothing, trying to get me to admit what I've already admitted--and you know that I've admitted it. Edited June 28, 2013 by Chiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Aeine's 80% was completely arbitrary, since he had pretty much nothing to justify it with. I'm sure what he meant was that he thought it more plausible that Martin started the fight, although there's not particularly strong evidence to suggest one or the other. Both of them have a history that suggest violence and an interest in guns, Martin had a history of drug use, but that's hardly definitive evidence, although it's not that it means nothing. At the end of the day, we can't say who started it. Zimmerman isn't a saint either, but he's received a lot of unfair treatment from the public, and the media hasn't really helped that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademaster! Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think Zimmerman started the fight and shot him because he wanted to because he's white and Martin was black. Please tell me this was meant to be ironic... As for the whole Martin drug whatever stuff, that's mostly to show that Martin has enough of a bad background so that it doesn't seem immpossible that he could have started the fight, and all that defamation against his character isn't even admissable evidence in this case anyway, since the state is doing everything they can to show Zimmerman is guilty since they have no case thanks to lol Murder 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) "The person you now know to be Trayvon Martin was on top, correct?" asked defense attorney Mark O'Mara. "He was the one raining blows down on George Zimmerman, correct?" "That's what it looked like," Good answered. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-zimmerman-moments-before-fatal-gunshot/ Edited June 28, 2013 by Chiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anime Catgirl Guile Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I hope Zimmerman walks off. I'm so sick of minorities throwing the book at the White Man. Where the heck are Caucasians Rights when we need them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I can't believe the media portrayed this shooting of an unarmed teenager as if it might have been unjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 C'mon guys George Zimmerman is obviously getting skewed by the LIEBRUL media because he's white and Trayvon is black, I mean haven't you seen the post Blademaster read on /pol/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademaster! Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 C'mon guys George Zimmerman is obviously getting skewed by the liberal media because he's hispanic and Trayvon is black, I mean haven't you seen the post Blademaster read on /pol/? God forbid a group of racists who have actually had an impact on this trial make the same complaint a bunch of other non racist media groups have critized as well right? Though maybe we should just continue to throw out more ad hominems to show how much better we are than them! Then again, what does anything about this have to do with the topic at hand? If you want to cry about how Zimmerman is likely going to walk free at the moment, do it in another thread. If you want to talk about the bias in the media's portrayal of white on black and black on white crime as well, do that in another thread too. This isn't about Zimmerman, this is about whether the media is going too far in inciting emotion (let alone doing a good job of reporting fact) and whether it's influence is getting in the way of the judicial process. I just used Zimmerman as an example because we are seeing these problems clearly unfold before our eyes now, and asked people if this was even the first time this has happened with media coverage of such cases before trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) The media can talk about whatever it wants, in my opinion. I just think there should be some rules set in place so that we, the people, aren't so easily persuaded to one side or the other. Perhaps during the opinionated talk shows, begin the program with stating that whatever's said on the show is for entertainment purposes only, and cannot be taken for reliable news at any time throughout the show. Then, when real news programs are broadcast, open those up with messages that news are always subject to change in light of new facts, and that one should do their own research on top of watching the news to be truly informed. This wouldn't be a game changer, not by a long shot, but I think that it would certainly help. Again, I don't think the media should be banned from any story at any time. Let us not forget how powerful a tool the media can be. Edited June 29, 2013 by Phoenix Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anime Catgirl Guile Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) So I just got an email from my Grandma that said "FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:White people are now the most oppressed group in America". I just find it annoying how minorities (and homosexuals) keep spouting nonsense of how persecuted they are. I hope the GOP gets it's act together and creates a bill that segregates these individuals in selected cities. At least I'm safe knowing these filthy sub-humans won't be able to vote for much longer in the great state of Texas thanks to Voter ID coming in soon. Edited June 29, 2013 by Colonel Billie Guile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 So I just got an email from my Grandma that said "FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:White people are now the most oppressed group in America". I just find it annoying how minorities (and homosexuals) keep spouting nonsense of how persecuted they are. I hope the GOP gets it's act together and creates a bill that segregates these individuals in selected cities. At least I'm safe knowing these filthy sub-humans won't be able to vote for much longer in the great state of Texas thanks to Voter ID coming in soon. Because white people are the racial majority at this time, it is rather natural that they would be the most oppressed. However, maybe a rebalancing of government oppression is what we need, not a rebalancing of government aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Really I think the impact the media has on these court cases is actually fairly negligible. Iirc lots of people "knew" OJ Simpson was guilty and look how that one turned out. Really there are many larger and widespread that the US justice system that it's pretty negligible in comparison The sensationalism and defamation coming from the media is an issue though. For example, the Duke Lacrosse team's name will be tarnished forever and there was not a case against them to begin with! Also, the news' ability to put fabricated "scandals" through the echo chamber to cause actual change is concerning. (Andrew Breitbart, anyone?) A bit more accountability here and there would be nice. So I just got an email from my Grandma that said "FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:White people are now the most oppressed group in America". I just find it annoying how minorities (and homosexuals) keep spouting nonsense of how persecuted they are. I hope the GOP gets it's act together and creates a bill that segregates these individuals in selected cities. At least I'm safe knowing these filthy sub-humans won't be able to vote for much longer in the great state of Texas thanks to Voter ID coming in soon. wat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Actually what SeverIan said doesn't sound too shabby at all. Oppress everyone! Only then we can have true equality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) I hope Zimmerman walks off. I'm so sick of minorities throwing the book at the White Man. Where the heck are Caucasians Rights when we need them? I can't believe the media portrayed this shooting of an unarmed teenager as if it might have been unjust. C'mon guys George Zimmerman is obviously getting skewed by the LIEBRUL media because he's white and Trayvon is black, I mean haven't you seen the post Blademaster read on /pol/? So I just got an email from my Grandma that said "FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD:White people are now the most oppressed group in America". I just find it annoying how minorities (and homosexuals) keep spouting nonsense of how persecuted they are. I hope the GOP gets it's act together and creates a bill that segregates these individuals in selected cities. At least I'm safe knowing these filthy sub-humans won't be able to vote for much longer in the great state of Texas thanks to Voter ID coming in soon. Because white people are the racial majority at this time, it is rather natural that they would be the most oppressed. However, maybe a rebalancing of government oppression is what we need, not a rebalancing of government aid. Actually what SeverIan said doesn't sound too shabby at all. Oppress everyone! Only then we can have true equality! So you wankers need to resort to this shit already? Treyvon Martin deserved to die. He was interested in guns, what kind of TRUE AMERICAN would be into such violent weaponry? And he even smoked weed! Hell, he was even wearing a fucking hoodie! I posit thus from such information: he was a gangster! George Zimmerman deserves a reward for his contributions to society. Hell, he even put bitches in their place when they deserved it, and we know he was a true man because he couldn't control himself around his cousin! A true American hero imhotep. Edited June 29, 2013 by Hikarasuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademaster! Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Treyvon Martin deserved to die. How dare you insult the angel that is Trayvon Martin. Lord have mercy on your soul you Satanic Zimmerman supporter, as you are sure to burn in hell! What we need right now are real Trayvon Martin supporters like Spike Lee, not "wankers" like yourself who don't see the travesty in this poor poor baby who was too afraid to run back to his own home and had to confront the evil Zimmer man and let him know the errors of his ways only to be shot in cold blood by that wanabee white cop! Thank the lord the DA was smart enough not to charge that devil with Manslaughter and did the smart thing of charging him with 2nd degree murder, something all legal analyists have praised throughout the country as the greatest legal action our country has seen in years! I mean, have you even seen what they look like: What kind of monster kills such a young an innocent child who was clearly in worse shape (probably obesse and definetly not some kind of 5'11 football player)! Did you even listen to Mister Good's testimony? The one on the bottom was the one in red! That was our little angel's body covered in blood, while that white devil (why are we even calling him a devil when he's white? It's the same thing right?) was on top savagly beating him! Did you also see all the blood that ricocheted off of Trayvon's body and onto that White's face? It even reached the backside of his head as if it had been smashed into the concrete! And then there were all those injuries on Zimmerman's hands too... Lord, lord, lord, O Lord, have mercy on your soul! I will do my best to let this lost sheep see the error of his ways, but lord almight I can only do so much! Why are we all being sarcastic again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 To destroy my sides, apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 well it looks like you're using sarcasm to make a murder more justifiable by mocking the people who are outraged by the lack of action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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