Pokemon X/Y General Thread

[Anacybele]

Try saving battles you lost, re-watching a battle you lost can show you witch mistakes you've made. This helped me a lot in my starcraft days and will probably work the same way in Pokemon.

I can't. Don't have the VS Recorder. xP

[Opdepov]

I can't. Don't have the VS Recorder. xP

Guess you have to work from memory for now ;)

[Anacybele]

Guess you have to work from memory for now ;)

I guess. I still don't get how Talonflame is outsped by Greninja though. I realize the latter is fast, but Talonflame is just FAST. The fastest thing I've ever used in a Pokemon game.

[Silver Lightning]

Honestly, I'm not really a competitive player; I've just been playing these games since I was 6 years old, so I have a lot of experience in type match-ups and building a team for type coverage, which is really all you have to do for in-game teams. Its only been recently that I've been talking to and learning from competitive people who are a lot better and smarter than me that I've begun to learn some tricks like that Substitute maneuver that I used. And don't even get me started on how long it took me to even comprehend EV training. Its only because of super training in this gen that I've started to EV train my first team, and that's not getting into all the different moves and strategies to consider using on any pokemon you train. Its a lot of work and patience, but if you want to win against an intelligent player and not just the AI, adapting and learning how to predict things is essential. I'll probably never be a serious competitive battler, but I'm learning a lot so that I can have fun battles against my friends on a higher level than just steamrolling the AI.

I want to help you succeed too, so if you want, let's learn together! I can battle you whenever you want and help you learn at least how to build and structure your team for type effectiveness, although admittedly there are far better people you could learn from. But believe it or not, I learned a thing or two from our battle and it seems you did as well, so I'd like to have more casual battles in the future with you, if nothing else. Let's both keep at it! :)

Edit: Also, if you'd like to review the battle again at some future point when you have the Vs. recorder, I have it saved and can send you the code for it in the future, since I save all of my wins and losses for review later.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Silver Lightning

[Anacybele]

Honestly, I'm not really a competitive player; I've just been playing these games since I was 6 years old, so I have a lot of experience in type match-ups and building a team for type coverage, which is really all you have to do for in-game teams. Its only been recently that I've been talking to and learning from competitive people who are a lot better and smarter than me that I've begun to learn some tricks like that Substitute maneuver that I used. And don't even get me started on how long it took me to even comprehend EV training. Its only because of super training in this gen that I've started to EV train my first team, and that's not getting into all the different moves and strategies to consider using on any pokemon you train. Its a lot of work and patience, but if you want to win against an intelligent player and not just the AI, adapting and learning how to predict things is essential. I'll probably never be a serious competitive battler, but I'm learning a lot so that I can have fun battles against my friends on a higher level than just steamrolling the AI.

I want to help you succeed too, so if you want, let's learn together! I can battle you whenever you want and help you learn at least how to build and structure your team for type effectiveness, although admittedly there are far better people you could learn from. But believe it or not, I learned a thing or two from our battle and it seems you did as well, so I'd like to have more casual battles in the future with you, if nothing else. Let's both keep at it! :)

Wait, competitive players actually use Subsitute? That's weird. That move has a HORRIBLE drawback of cutting a lot of the user's HP. It's worse than two-turn moves, imo. Which is why I never use it. I rarely even use two-turn moves.

Anyway, thanks, but I'm afraid I probably won't learn much if I have to EV train and such to be able to do so. I don't have the time for it given that I have a job and things. Guess I'll just have to not battle real people. But I can deal with that, I have enough fun in the main game. :P

I haven't been playing Pokemon for as long as you though. I would have, except I never got my own copy of RBY or Gold/Silver when they came out. Only my stepbrothers did and they never shared them with me. Couldn't blame them though, really, seeing as you can only have one game file on each Pokemon game. xP

Edited October 29, 2013 by Anacybele

[DodgeDusk]

Wait, competitive players actually use Subsitute? That's weird. That move has a HORRIBLE drawback of cutting a lot of the user's HP. It's worse than two-turn moves, imo. Which is why I never use it. I rarely even use two-turn moves.

Substitute eases prediction, protects you from status-inflicting moves (like thunder wave) and can potentially stall out the PP of low PP moves (like fire blast, sucker punch, which can be used in tandem with substitute as the only way for the enemy to get rid of a substitute is to either roar/whirlwind you out or to attack it, so sucker punch is generally a great move). It's also a good way to rack up toxic damage on enemies, since at most they're doing 25% damage to you if you're faster than them

Also, if you baton pass behind a substitute the pokemon that comes out also gets it, which is basically a free protect the moment it comes in

Edited October 29, 2013 by DodgeDusk

[Anacybele]

Substitute eases prediction, protects you from status-inflicting moves (like thunder wave) and can potentially stall out the PP of low PP moves (like fire blast, sucker punch, which can be used in tandem with substitute as the only way for the enemy to get rid of a substitute is to either roar/whirlwind you out or to attack it, so sucker punch is generally a great move). It's also a good way to rack up toxic damage on enemies, since at most they're doing 25% damage to you if you're faster than them

Also, if you baton pass behind a substitute the pokemon that comes out also gets it, which is basically a free protect the moment it comes it

Not if you drain your own Pokemon's HP first by using it a lot. xP For all a player knows, their opponent could send out a fast Pokemon right after Subsitute disappears, and KOs your Subsitute user before it can use it again.

As I said, had SL not cut her Greninja's HP, it would've lasted long enough to sweep the rest of my team because I only had Fire types left at that point.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Anacybele

[Sylphid]

Anyway, thanks, but I'm afraid I probably won't learn much if I have to EV train and such to be able to do so. I don't have the time for it given that I have a job and things. Guess I'll just have to not battle real people. But I can deal with that, I have enough fun in the main game. :P

EV training is really fast in XY though.

Though I haven't done it that fast, I hear having half an hour of free time is enough to EV train a pokemon.

It's breeding that's the time-consuming part. And for me, creating parties

[Anacybele]

EV training is really fast in XY though.

Though I haven't done it that fast, I hear having half an hour of free time is enough to EV train a pokemon.

It's breeding that's the time-consuming part. And for me, creating parties

One Pokemon, maybe. A full team would take a lot longer. Thus, I likely still wouldn't have the time due to the number of other things I do. I'm not THAT big of a Pokemon fan anyway, so I don't care enough for the series to even bother. I just don't want to lose as much as I do, is all.

I did beat one person on here, but I think it was merely due to luck. xP

[LuxSpes]

Not if you drain your own Pokemon's HP first by using it a lot. xP For all a player knows, their opponent could send out a fast Pokemon right after Subsitute disappears, and KOs your Subsitute user before it can use it again.

As I said, had SL not cut her Greninja's HP, it would've lasted long enough to sweep the rest of my team because I only had Fire types left at that point.

This video shows well one substitute strat.

Substitute can be viable as long as you have a way to get your life back. The video showed one strat where the harvest ability+Sitrus and leech seed were used, bu others rely on abilities like poison heal, ice body, rain dish and items like leftovers. A sub strat can be a core part of a Stall team.

Also, you should have better odds in battle after beating the E4. You get access to the Friend Safaris and all their perfect IV and hidden ability pokemon and you should have accest to a wider amount of TMs which can be very useful to balance your pokemons.

I'm still in the middle of training my Umbreon and Leafeon, but when I'm done, would you care for a battle? I'm also getting the eeveelutions and I want to see how they fare in a fight with others (especially the new and improved Flareon).

I added your friend code for your Safari, but since I'm currently training lots of pokemon, including some eeveelutions, I could battle your eevee team if you still wish to do so when I'll have finished training them. My FC is 3668-7717-7336 and my Friend Safari is Shuppet, Pumpkaboo and Golurk if you want to add me.

[Silver Lightning]

Wait, competitive players actually use Subsitute? That's weird. That move has a HORRIBLE drawback of cutting a lot of the user's HP. It's worse than two-turn moves, imo. Which is why I never use it. I rarely even use two-turn moves.

Anyway, thanks, but I'm afraid I probably won't learn much if I have to EV train and such to be able to do so. I don't have the time for it given that I have a job and things. Guess I'll just have to not battle real people. But I can deal with that, I have enough fun in the main game. :P

I haven't been playing Pokemon for as long as you though. I would have, except I never got my own copy of RBY or Gold/Silver when they came out. Only my stepbrothers did and they never shared them with me. Couldn't blame them though, really, seeing as you can only have one game file on each Pokemon game. xP

Yeah, I didn't use to think it was a particularly good move either, but when used correctly with a strategy behind it, it works wonders. Its the reason my Greninja survived long enough to take down your Bellossom, a bad match-up for me, and two more of your pokemon; Substitute sacrifices a quarter of your pokemon's health to weather any attack, no matter how strong, as well as be immune to most status effects, like your Bellossom's toxic. If your Leaf Storm had hit it would've been a OHKO, but Substitute took it, and I had the added bonus of having Bellossom lose two levels of Special Attack at the same time. And while you obviously can't use Substitute more that three times without recovery of some sort, the fail safe I had with getting use out of my almost fainted Greninja would be to use the low HP it had to activate its ability Torrent for a powerful last resort Hydro Cannon, which would be bound to take down a pokemon or two before Greninja fainted for good. This is just one of the things I've learned; a lot of seemingly negative moves can actually help you win if used correctly.

And you don't have to EV train at all to enjoy battles with other people; heck, my in-game team isn't EV trained at all, and the main reason I probably won is because you have 3 fire types on your team, which gives you severe weaknesses to several common attacking types like ground and water. For in-game, that's totally ok if you're smart enough to get around that against the AI, but for human players, people are going to take advantage of it. Believe me, I totally understand using pokemon you like, especially if they're your favorite type, but if you want to have protection and coverage for different types, its best to get a mix of pokemon that don't overlap with types. Trust me, it makes you a lot harder to take down. For instance, I picked Golurk for my team not because its one of my favorite pokemon, but because its Ground/Ghost typing complimented my team well with immunity to electric and normal moves.

From what I saw, you have pokemon with powerful moves and pretty good move coverage offensively; its just defensively you have to work on. My point is, I'm primarily a casual player who doesn't EV train, so I'm always free to have a casual battle with people who are looking for that (especially once I acquire my X version/Pokemon Bank and I can get more pokemon to experiment with in a casual setting).

Seriously, I'll always be here if you want any help or advice, from one casual player to another.

Edit: lol, ninja'd by one of the masters. And LuxSpes, I have added you and would be delighted to have a battle with you once I'm finished EV training my team. :)

Edited October 29, 2013 by Silver Lightning

[Espinosa]

Imagine you switch your Rhydon into Zapdos. Rhydon is not in danger but Zapdos is definitely not staying in so you either make your prediction or put up a sub so that you can pick your move based on who's switching in. If it's somebody like Lapras, Rock Slide. Mega Drain Gengar? Earthquake. Some stall switch-in like Exeggutor? Body Slam for a chance of para, see if it even runs Mega Drain and then decide if you're staying.

This is a gen 1 example (and probably not a very accurate one), but in the newer gens games are so absurdly offensive that one just doesn't care about losing 25% HP when so many things OHKO everything in sight.

[shadykid]

has nobody mentioned that Talonflame should outspeed Greninja?

[Silver Lightning]

has nobody mentioned that Talonflame should outspeed Greninja?

Well, neither of them were EV trained; I don't know what her Talonflame's nature is but my Greninja has Adamant.

[Espinosa]

So what's the quickest way of making a WiFi team? I've never done that before. Let's say I have a team of some sort in mind (maybe I want to copy my current PO team) - how does one go about it? e.g. in a nutshell, how to get better IVs, how to efficiently rack up EVs in the right stats and how to train to L100? I hear some changes were made this gen but it's not like I ever tried anything of the sort (oh wait, I had a Battle Tower team in Sapphire starring L100 Metagross, Salamence and Ludicolo like 10 years ago).

[Redwall]

has nobody mentioned that Talonflame should outspeed Greninja?

It shouldn't; Adamant Talonfame gets outsped by Timid/Jolly Greninja, and Jolly Talonflame shouldn't be used.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I didn't use to think it was a particularly good move either, but when used correctly with a strategy behind it, it works wonders. Its the reason my Greninja survived long enough to take down your Bellossom, a bad match-up for me, and two more of your pokemon; Substitute sacrifices a quarter of your pokemon's health to weather any attack, no matter how strong, as well as be immune to most status effects, like your Bellossom's toxic. If your Leaf Storm had hit it would've been a OHKO, but Substitute took it, and I had the added bonus of having Bellossom lose two levels of Special Attack at the same time. And while you obviously can't use Substitute more that three times without recovery of some sort, the fail safe I had with getting use out of my almost fainted Greninja would be to use the low HP it had to activate its ability Torrent for a powerful last resort Hydro Cannon, which would be bound to take down a pokemon or two before Greninja fainted for good. This is just one of the things I've learned; a lot of seemingly negative moves can actually help you win if used correctly.

The reason I had Bellossom use Toxic was so I could save its Leaf Storm PP. But your Greninja did more damage to it than I expected, so...

Also, I noticed that despite your Greninja's Substitute still being in effect when Bellossom used Giga Drain, it still lost HP from the move. I should've repeated that instead of trying to predict when the Substitute would wear off. But I still choose not to use the move, because I feel it would be too difficult to get an opportunity to use it correctly.

And you don't have to EV train at all to enjoy battles with other people; heck, my in-game team isn't EV trained at all, and the main reason I probably won is because you have 3 fire types on your team, which gives you severe weaknesses to several common attacking types like ground and water.

Odd, I don't see those types used much, even when I battle online. I see the occasional Earthquake and Hydro Pump or something, but that's it.

For in-game, that's totally ok if you're smart enough to get around that against the AI, but for human players, people are going to take advantage of it. Believe me, I totally understand using pokemon you like, especially if they're your favorite type, but if you want to have protection and coverage for different types, its best to get a mix of pokemon that don't overlap with types. Trust me, it makes you a lot harder to take down. For instance, I picked Golurk for my team not because its one of my favorite pokemon, but because its Ground/Ghost typing complimented my team well with immunity to electric and normal moves.

Er, yes, I know all of this. I'm not THAT noobish. Especially since I previously always used a balanced team like that. And half my team being Fire type is the reason I got a Bellossom and an Aurorus with Thunderbolt. I wanted to use the gen 6 Pokemon I really liked and I don't like any of the available Water and Ground types, which I know would balance my team more. In fact, I'm not even a fan of either type. I like Fire, Dragon, Grass, Electric, Dark, and Fairy. I realize Aurorus isn't any of those types, but I can still like Pokemon that are of types I dislike.

From what I saw, you have pokemon with powerful moves and pretty good move coverage offensively; its just defensively you have to work on. My point is, I'm primarily a casual player who doesn't EV train, so I'm always free to have a casual battle with people who are looking for that (especially once I acquire my X version/Pokemon Bank and I can get more pokemon to experiment with in a casual setting).

What do you mean "defensively"? It's not like you can make your Pokemon try to block or dodge a move with a simple press of a button or anything. Also, I don't ONLY use moves that just cause damage. My team also has Toxic and Sunny Day (to make use of Bellossom's Chlorophyll ability. Bellossom isn't the one that knows it though lol). Several moves I use can also cause status ailments or lower stats as well as cause damage.

Seriously, I'll always be here if you want any help or advice, from one casual player to another.

Alright, that's fine.

As for my Talonflame's nature, I can't remember what it is, but I know it isn't a speed-reducing nature.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Anacybele

[Fruity Insanity]

Not if I lose all the time. Yeah, you can learn from losses, but not if you NEVER win at all. Losing, and then going to win because of what you learned is improving. Not losing, trying to learn, but then continuously losing. xP

This is not true. The only reason I got as far as I have was through trial-and-error. I test a team, realize that it doesn't fare well, and try again by rebuilding my team.

EV training is really fast in XY though.

Though I haven't done it that fast, I hear having half an hour of free time is enough to EV train a pokemon.

It's breeding that's the time-consuming part. And for me, creating parties

Neither are that time-consuming if done correctly. But that's the hard part for most non-competitive players.

I guess. I still don't get how Talonflame is outsped by Greninja though. I realize the latter is fast, but Talonflame is just FAST. The fastest thing I've ever used in a Pokemon game.

Well, neither of them were EV trained; I don't know what her Talonflame's nature is but my Greninja has Adamant.

It shouldn't; Adamant Talonfame gets outsped by Timid/Jolly Greninja, and Jolly Talonflame shouldn't be used.

Of course it should.

Gale Wings Talonflame is only Talonflame.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Fruity Insanity

[Opdepov]

Gale Wings Talonflame is only Talonflame.

No kidding, Gale Wings is so much better than Flame Body. Flame body's only use is breeding, and in a way that gives an adventure mode Talonflame a secondary use after the maingame ^^

(after the maingame I found out my Talonflame had "terrible" attack and defense apparently T_T, gogo breeding.)

Edited October 29, 2013 by Falter

[Anacybele]

What? Flame Body is awesome. It causes burns, which lower attack and steadily decrease HP. And obviously, it helps with egg-hatching.

[Redwall]

Of course it should.

Gale Wings Talonflame is only Talonflame.

By "outspeed" I simply meant that +Spe Greninja had higher Speed than +Atk Talonflame. Gale Wings won't help an Adamant Talonflame against a Water Shuriken from a Jolly Greninja.

[Opdepov]

What? Flame Body is awesome. It causes burns, which lower attack and steadily decrease HP. And obviously, it helps with egg-hatching.

Well, Gale Wings gives priority to all flying moves. Always moving first when using Brave Bird or Roost seems a lot better to me. If you really want Talonflame to burn opponents it can still learn Will-O-Wisp.

[Fruity Insanity]

What? Flame Body is awesome. It causes burns, which lower attack and steadily decrease HP. And obviously, it helps with egg-hatching.

Well, Gale Wings gives priority to all flying moves. Always moving first when using Brave Bird or Roost seems a lot better to me. If you really want Talonflame to burn opponents it can still learn Will-O-Wisp.

This^.

By "outspeed" I simply meant that +Spe Greninja had higher Speed than +Atk Talonflame. Gale Wings won't help an Adamant Talonflame against a Water Shuriken from a Jolly Greninja.

Of the many, many Greninjas I've faced, only one had Water Shuriken on it. And all the good Greninjas also had Protean. (There may have been one more, but I suspect that that particular opponent didn't know a lick about competitive Pokémon. He/She sucked. A lot.)

Even then, it wasn't all that good.

And of all the Talonflames I've faced, pretty much every one had Gale Wings.

[LuxSpes]

Edit: lol, ninja'd by one of the masters. And LuxSpes, I have added you and would be delighted to have a battle with you once I'm finished EV training my team. :)

Alright! I'll work on my Eevee team(Pokemon Colosseum and XD made me like the Eeveelutions a lot) and I'll challenge you when it's ready :)

What? Flame Body is awesome. It causes burns, which lower attack and steadily decrease HP. And obviously, it helps with egg-hatching.

While Flame Body has been awesome in-game for me, in a battle against a player, it fall short in comparison to Gale Wings. Flame Body works well on a pokemon that will get hit frequently and Talonflame doesn't have the bulk to take multiple hits. Gale Wings, on the other hand, complements Talonflame's fragile speedster stat spread and gives him a unique niche.

[Redwall]

Of the many, many Greninjas I've faced, only one had Water Shuriken on it. And all the good Greninjas also had Protean. (There may have been one more, but I suspect that that particular opponent didn't know a lick about competitive Pokémon. He/She sucked. A lot.)

Even then, it wasn't all that good.

And of all the Talonflames I've faced, pretty much every one had Gale Wings.

Protean-boosted Water Shuriken is extremely useful in 1 v 1 for checking Adamant Talonflame and Sand Rush Excadrill.

I never claimed that Flame Body should be used over Gale Wings, only that Adamant should be used over Jolly.