Avatar Logbook Price Formula (Warning: GIANT Wall O' Text Incoming)

[PapaDragon]

TL;DR: Figured out the full logbook formula, it's a bit weird, and the most expensive unit is a fully maxed out Spotpass Pr. Marth.

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I'm going to have to double check and confirm some stuff, but I think I've fully accounted for the formula for unit prices in the Avatar Logbook, for both MyUnits and Legacy Characters (Spotpass and DLC). Why did I go and try to suss this out? I'm not sure I want to know the full answer to that question. It isn't particularly useful information. Let's just say that there were some price discrepancies that bugged me enough to try and sort out what was going on under the hood.

If you find a problem, mistake, omission, miscalculation, etc. please point it out. Also, congratulations on being at least as strange as I am! I am so sorry

Here's how the price is calculated.

1. The base logbook price of every unit is 1,600 gold, regardless of Asset/Flaw (this becomes important later)
2. Using Boots adds 20,000 gold to the logbook price of a unit (this can only be done once per unit)
3. Every skill after the first 5 skills increases the logbook price of a unit by 800 gold per skill; the first 5 do not increase the price (this includes DLC skills as well)
4. Every additional point acquired, either through leveling up or through permanent stat boosting items, in every stat other than Max HP adds 200 gold per point to the price of the unit
5. Every additional Maximum HP... point ... acquired, either through leveling up or through permanent stat boosting items, adds 100 gold to the price of the unit. HOWEVER, the game can only increment the price by 200, so increases are ignored in-game until the price reaches a multiple of 200.

Number 5 is a bit confusing, so I'll elaborate. Let's say a unit's price (actual and in-game) is 8000 gold. This unit then gets an additional 5 points in max HP from a Seraph robe, increasing its actual price (the one stored in the game's data) by 500, bringing it to 8500 gold. However, the effective price (the one displayed in the logbook and paid by the player) is actually 8400 gold, since 8500 is not a multiple of 200. After another 5 HP points are added via another Seraph robe, the price goes up by another 500 gold. Since the actual price increases to 9000, a multiple of 200, the effective price paid by the player then becomes 9000 gold.

Cool? Cool.

The following DO NOT appear to affect the price in any way. While I might be wrong, I'm fairly certain on these:

1. The unit's level (current and internal), experience points, and leveling up do not affect the price (other than additional stats and abilities, of course)
2. The unit's weapon levels and experience do not affect the price.
3. The unit's current class does not affect the price.

Besides MyUnits, the Avatar Logbook stores Legacy Characters (Spotpass and DLC). These are basically MyUnits/Avatars, complete with Assets and Flaws, with special portraits; however, a handful of them have special abilities that can't normally be acquired by an equivalent MyUnit - skills from classes exclusive to the opposite gender, skills from special classes (Villagers, Dancers, and Lords, etc) and skills unique to certain characters (i.e. Shadowgift). This allows them to potentially have more skills than normal, and simply increases the price by 800 gold per extra skill. However, there are a couple of circumstances worth noting:

1. It seems that 2500 gold is added to the logbook prices of characters with the Lodestar class (namely Private Prince and King Marths). Note that this works similarly to how Max HP does: if the price with Lodestar is not a multiple of 200, then the effective price will be 100 lower than the actual price.
2. However, Spotpass Tiki's logbook price does NOT seem to be directly affected by her Manakete class or status - her higher potential price seems to be the result of the extra skills and extra stat point capacity afforded by the Manakete class.

Finally, there are two other Spotpass character case worth noting. The first is Mist, the only Level 1 pre-promoted spotpass legacy character available in the game. Her price of 4000 is consistent with the lowest MyUnit price of 4000 gold. However, calculating her character base stats (total base stats - class base stats) reveals something peculiar. Before factoring in the Asset and Flaw of a particular unit, every MyUnit (normal, not Spotpass or DLC) has the same character base stats: 3 points in HP, and 11 points in other stats, distributed in a particular way. If we count HP points as equal to 0.5 "normal" stat points, we get a total character base stat value of 12.5. These points are NOT calculated in the price of the unit. However, Mist has 12 total base stat points before factoring in Asset/Flaw; they are distributed differently than normal MyUnits, and none of them are in HP.

Furthermore, something weird happens when Mist acquires HP stat points: one such point seems to be ignored by her logbook price. This seems to make sense: since HP points are worth 0.5 normal points, this would bring the number of base stat points (points which are not reflected in the logbook price) to 12.5, same as the MyUnit, thus catching Mist up to the baseline, if that makes any sense.

What does this mean? Well, it seems to indicate that Legacy Characters can have difference base stat distributions than a normal MyUnit, but that the pre-Asset/Flaw base stat total is 12.5 points. HOWEVER, I do not have enough data to 100% confirm this; this variation could account for some jitter in the prices of various legacy characters (perhaps even accounting for the prices of the Marth characters). Still, the prices of legacy characters have been very consistent so far, so I suspect that, regardless of the distribution, each legacy character has a character base stat point total of 12.5.

The reason I bring up character base stats - that is, base stats inherent to the character regardless of class - is that these essentially "eat into" the maximum total stat points a unit can possibly get. Like I said, it appears that each Logbook unit has a total of 12.5 of these points, but this is only BEFORE calculating the impact of Asset and Flaw on the base stat total. From this page:

• HP picked as Asset/Flaw: +5/-3
• Luck picked as Asset/Flaw: +4/-2
• Other stat picked as Asset/Flaw: +2/-1

But wait, it gets weirder. There is actually a character who comes in under 4000G: Wolt, the god of suck, comes in at a paltry 2400 fresh out of the box. After accounting for Asset and Flaw, as well as the Archer's base stats, we find that Wolt has a base stat total of 4.5, a whole 8 points under my previously assumed total. However, this is consistent: since those points are worth 200 apiece (bringing it to 1600 total), Wolt's price after gaining 8 points becomes 4000, my previous minimum price.

What does this tell us? Well two things:

1. Wolt sucks so hard.
2. In all likelyhood, the actual base price of all units is 1600. This includes 1 Max HP point (I guess to prevent a unit without a class from having 0 Max HP? I dunno), as well as any and all adjustments from Asset and Flaw.

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FINALLY, to calculate maximum possible price (assuming all of my assumptions above are true):

1. Start with the base price of 1,600 gold
2. Add 20,000 gold for boots
3. Not counting additional special skills found on certain legacy characters, every male character can have up to 68 skills (including DLC like All Stats +2 and Aggressor), while every female character can have up to 70 skills (including DLC skills like Bonds and Paragon). Five skills are ignored in the price, so the effective totals become 63 for males (worth 50,400) and 65 for females (worth 52,000)
4. For characters with additional skills (i.e. Ike with Aether) add 800 for each additional skill
5. For any Marth, add 2,500 gold for Lodestar
6. Before factoring in anything else, every Logbook character besides Tiki can earn up to 298.5 stat points (counting Max HP points as 0.5 normal points)
7. The Limit Break skill allows for another 70 stat points, bringing our current earn-able total to 368.5.
8. Subtract the baseline 0.5 character base stat points (since it can't be earned again and doesn't go towards the price), and we get a new total of 368 points.
9. Since every Asset/Flaw combination adds a net 3 points to the total capacity, our new possible stat point total is 371
10. Next, factor in additional base stat points from the Asset, which takes away from point capacity: For HP, subtract 2.5; For Luck, subtract 4; For everything else, subtract 2.
11. Next, factor in the missing base stat points from the Flaw, which adds to point capacity: For HP, add 1.5; For luck, add 2; for everything else, add 1.
12. Finally, for Tiki, add 4.5 possible stat points afforded by the Manakete class
13. Take your possible stat points number, and multiply by 200 gold.
14. Add everything up.
15. Round down to the nearest multiple of 200 to get your maximum possible price!

A few things to note from this:

• Units with Luck as the Asset tend to have slightly lower maximum prices
• Conversely, Units with Luck as the flaw tend to have slightly higher maximum prices (Although the HP asset more or less cancels this out, but not vice versa)
• HP is a weird won: as an Asset, it tends to lower the price a bit, but as a flaw, it tends NOT to raise the price... most of the time.

Finally, remember when people were saying that the most expensive possible logbook unit was a fully maxed out Est? It's not - she's tied for second with Tiki at 150,000 gold, thanks to the Manakete's point capacity and extra abilities.

No, the most expensive logbook unit is Pr. Marth (Spotpass version), thanks to the apparent Lodestar bonus, coming in at a whopping 151,400 gold.

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So, there you have it. Like I said, I need to confirm some stuff, and I could always have missed something, but barring any such oversights, this seems to cover everything.

... Holy crap that was long...

Edit 1: Clarified that the base number of skills includes DLC skills.

Edit 2: Corrected and expanded on Base Price. Thank you Czar_Yoshi, and damn you Wolt, you steaming pile of failure.

Edit 3: Forgot a missing step, put it in:

Edited January 24, 2014 by PapaDragon

[Klokinator]

I <3 you.

But seriously this goes to show that even a newer member can contribute awesome useful information to the community!

[Czar_Yoshi]

This is pretty cool.

So how do units who cost less than 4,000G to recruit work, and why aren't you giving Marth skills like Res+10 to increase his stats as well?

[Gaia]

How long have you been working on this? 'Cause that is some amazing information.

[Tables]

Very interesting stuff. The main important points were already known (200 points per stat, 800 per skill, 20K for Boots), but it's always nice to have the full details, especially all in one single place, and especially working out if/where there are oddities. I've done a similar thing with working out the EXP formula, and that also does weird things in a few places, so I know it can get frustrating to calculate at times.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Tables

[PapaDragon]

So how do units who cost less than 4,000G to recruit work, and why aren't you giving Marth skills like Res+10 to increase his stats as well?

4000G is the minimum price in the logbook. I'm pretty sure, since Mist is the cheapest Spotpass character, and she comes in at 4000G, as does every out-of-the-box Avatar (don't use them in any battle before adding them to the Logbook).

I think you are referring to recruited characters - that is, Streetpass and Spotpass characters whom you recruit directly off the map, those are actually 1/2 off their Logbook price (e.g. Mist goes for 2000G off the map, but 4000G from the Logbook).

I'm pretty sure this is why price increases ignore everything over the closest multiple of 200: they wanted Streetpass/Spotpass characters on the map to have prices increment by 100 to keep things simple .

Did that last sentence make sense at all? It made sense in my head...

Whatever, recruitment from map is 1/2 of recruitment from Logbook. Got it? Got it. Moving on.

As for Res+10, this is already included. 68 is the maximum number of skills a male Avatar can learn, including skills from the Dread Fighter Class and all 4 DLC skills learned from books. I edited my post to clarify this point. The same applies for the female side of things.

I hope this helps.

How long have you been working on this? 'Cause that is some amazing information.

Well, I only really actively worked on this for a few days, actually. Even then, I kept making dumb math errors, figuring out what the hell was going on with HP and Lodestar took a bit of testing, and figuring out the Asset/Flaw impact on base stats took some digging on the website.

Funnily enough, however, I had already done most of the work well before I even thought to figure out what was going on. As I was filling out my support library and grinding renown, I decided to max out every character on my cleared Hard mode save file (I wanted max renown available before I attempted Lunatic, just in case I needed it... I'm a baby ) . In order to keep everything straight and make things a bit more efficient, I made a spreadsheet in order to determine which classes needed the most points to max out any given stat, as well as figure out who and what I already maxed. For example, if you max out a General's Strength (with limit break, of course), then every other class that character can possibly be will have maxed out strength. Once I finished with normal characters, I decided to max out every Logbook character with special skills (Titania with male-only Counter, Zephiel with Conquest, every DLC character, etc), because, I dunno, why not.

I noticed that most characters maxed out within 800G of one another due to their extra abilities, but sometimes, prices were... off. I thought maybe it was the particular abilities and their rarity or power that did this, until I found that maxed Zephiel beat out maxed DLC Ephraim by 200 gold, despite both having Conquest. Could I have messed up my grinding and accidentally made some units more expensive than they needed to be? Was it a bug? Was this supposed to happen?

It annoyed me enough to drive me to figure it out, and, welp, here I am. I can't really tell you how long this all took me... except I have, like, 465 hours on my grinding file... I LIKE MAXING THINGS OUT OKAY

Edited January 18, 2014 by papadragon

[Tribute]

This is kind of off topic, but I've never bothered looking.

Say you edit a logbook spotpass character, ie your maxed out marth. And then summon him to the map and recruit him. Do you get basic marth for whatever he is, or your marth for 75700

[PapaDragon]

This is kind of off topic, but I've never bothered looking.

Say you edit a logbook spotpass character, ie your maxed out marth. And then summon him to the map and recruit him. Do you get basic marth for whatever he is, or your marth for 75700

Sorry, you just get the basic out-of-the-box Lv. 25 Lodestar Pr. Marth (for 18900 gold, if you were curious). There's no way to cut the fee in half or anything like that, I'm afraid (besides not raising him as high, of course).

[Czar_Yoshi]

No, I meant Res+10 as in equipping it to raise Marth's listed stats. I figured you'd have it in his arsenal already.

Wolt is cheaper than Mist. He only costs 1,200G to recruit on the map.

[PapaDragon]

No, I meant Res+10 as in equipping it to raise Marth's listed stats. I figured you'd have it in his arsenal already.

Wolt is cheaper than Mist. He only costs 1,200G to recruit on the map.

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The +Stat skills don't raise the base stats, if that makes sense, and thus have no bearing on the price.

But DAMMIT WOLT! Clearly, I missed this :-(

Thank you for bringing this to my attention - Imma look into this and get back to you. Do you know of any other characters who do this?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Only Wolt. For some reason it's not very common knowledge that he's so cheap, I always see people recommend Mist for Renown grinding...

If you're not already using this, it contains all the base unit prices (summon, not Logbook): http://serenesforest.net/fe13/recruit_spotpass.html

[MelonGx]

Many thanks to discover the formula to calculate the Logbook character's payment.

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(The previous question was self-solved and deleted by original poster)

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Another question: How to calculate the 0.5 points exactly from HP?

If rounds it down, then Prince Marth's Lodestar bonus will never be 2,500: 151,400 - 71,200(356.5 -> 356 stats points of +LCK -HP) + 57,600(72 skills) + 20,000(Boots) = 2,600.

(I don't know King Marth(+STR -MEG/RES?)'s max payment so I don't know the correct Lodestar bonus. Anyone has tested it?)

But if rounds it up, you can't explain why Tiki's max payment is 150,000 --- 147,600(+RES -SKL's basement) + 1,600(Manakete exclusive skills) + 1000(Manakete's stats bonus: 4.5 -> 5 points) = 150,200.

Edited January 18, 2014 by MelonGx

[PapaDragon]

Another question: How to calculate the 0.5 points exactly from HP?

If rounds it down, then Prince Marth's Lodestar bonus will never be 2,500: 151,400 - 71,200(356.5 -> 356 stats points of +LCK -HP) + 57,600(72 skills) + 20,000(Boots) = 2,600.

You've got the wrong numbers for skills, stat points, and you are missing the base stat price.

On the skills, you need to subtract 5, since the first 5 are free (I tested this).

On the stat points, you do not round mid-calculation. Otherwise, every time you earned a single point of HP, it would essentially be free. However, since the effective price rounds down, but the actual price stored in the memory does not, the price bumps up every time it hits a multiple of 200.

To fully understand this, take a logbook character, use a seraph robe, and update their price. It will either go up by 600G or 400G (unless it's Mist, she's a bit weird). Do it again, and if it went up 600G the first time, it will go up by 400G, whereas if it went up by 400G the first time, it will go up by 600G. This pattern does not change. I tested a bit more thoroughly than this, but this gives you a good idea of what's going on here.

Here's the full calculation:

Pr. Marth:

Base Price +1600

Skills: (68+4-5)*800 = 67*800 = +53600

Boots: +20000

Stats: [298.5 (Earnable) + 70 (Limit Break) + 3 (Asset/Flaw net cap increase) - 0.5 (Baseline HP) - 4 (Luck Asset Base Stat Bonus) + 1.5 (HP Flaw Penalty)] * 200 = (368.5)* 200 = + 73700

Lodestar: +2500

1600+53600+20000+73700+2500 = 151,400G

So yeah, it does not round up, but in the case of Tiki, if she could earn just one more HP point, her price would go to 150,200.

Also, sorry about the -12.5 stuff, that's out of date. It's Wolt's fault The net effect is that 2400 from the Base Price actually belongs to the Stats.

Only Wolt. For some reason it's not very common knowledge that he's so cheap, I always see people recommend Mist for Renown grinding...

If you're not already using this, it contains all the base unit prices (summon, not Logbook): http://serenesforest.net/fe13/recruit_spotpass.html

I KNEW THAT PAGE EXISTED! Seriously, I keep forgetting where pages are.

But yeah, it's probably because Wolt is Level 4, while Mist is Level 1 (and a helpless Cleric to boot).

Well, I played with this, and the short answer is that the math basically holds up: Wolt's stats, after removing Asset/Flaw adjustments and the Archer Base Stats, total up to 4.5. The missing 8 stat ups are worth 200 apiece, or 1600 total, so if you add 2400 to 1600, you get 4000, my original base price.

So the new formulation:

Base Price = 1600, includes 1 Max HP Point, and the Asset and Flaw base stat effects.

Funny story: Wolt actually has -3 Skill. If you were somehow able to raise him to level 10 without getting a single point in skill, and change him to a Priest, I'd love to see what happens.

tl;dr WOLT IS THE WORST CHARACTER, and everything is updated now :-)

Edited January 18, 2014 by PapaDragon

[Tables]

Funny story: Wolt actually has -3 Skill. If you were somehow able to raise him to level 10 without getting a single point in skill, and change him to a Priest, I'd love to see what happens.

I'm gonna have to try that. I doubt anything especially interesting will happen, but I guess you never know, could cause a wraparound glitch and give you 127 base skill (maybe 255), which sounds... interesting, at least, as a Dark Mage.

Edit: Tested it out. Skill drops to 0, which is what I figured was the most likely scenario. One fun little thing though was that using a Secret Book raises his skill to only one, not to two as you might expect - so you don't get to generate a free point of skill, sadly :P.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Tables

[MelonGx]

A new question:

After fully trained King Marth, his price became 149,200G.

But we got 149,300G calculated from the updated formula:

Base Price: 1600

Skills: (68+1-5)*800=51200

Boots: 20000

Stats: [371-2(+Str)+1(-Meg)]*200=370*200=74000

Lodestar: 2500

Total: 149,300

So what's the problem with the new formula again?

Edited January 23, 2014 by MelonGx

[Tables]

A new question:

After fully trained King Marth, his price became 149,200G.

But we got 149,300G calculated from the updated formula:

Base Price: 1600

Skills: (68+1-5)*800=51200

Boots: 20000

Stats: [371-2(+Str)+1(-Meg)]*200=370*200=74000

Lodestar: 2500

Total: 149,300

So what's the problem with the new formula again?

The first thing I'd look at is, check Second Seals and see if there's any class he can switch to which he hasn't capped everything in.

[MelonGx]

The first thing I'd look at is, check Second Seals and see if there's any class he can switch to which he hasn't capped everything in.

HP of Trickster and Lodestar are definitely 80.

Others are all green.

[Tables]

HP of Trickster and Lodestar are definitely 80.

Others are all green.

Dread Fighter, maybe?

[Czar_Yoshi]

A new question:

After fully trained King Marth, his price became 149,200G.

But we got 149,300G calculated from the updated formula:

Base Price: 1600

Skills: (68+1-5)*800=51200

Boots: 20000

Stats: [371-2(+Str)+1(-Meg)]*200=370*200=74000

Lodestar: 2500

Total: 149,300

So what's the problem with the new formula again?

Aren't you supposed to round down odd multiples of 100?

[PapaDragon]

Aren't you supposed to round down odd multiples of 100?

You beat me to it, Czar_Yoshi

King Marth were able to just earn 1 more Max HP point (worth 100G), his price would jump up to 149,400G. But he can't, so it stays rounded down to 149,200G.

Edited January 23, 2014 by PapaDragon

[MelonGx]

Dread Fighter, maybe?

I'm sure that the following classes are the latest ones to reach the corresponding parameter's green.

HP: Trickster, Dark Flier, Valkyrie / Manakete

Str: General

Meg: Sage

Skl: Sage

Spd: Sorcerer

Def: General / Manakete

Res: Valkyrie, War Monk/Cleric, Sorcerer / Manakete

You beat me to it, Czar_Yoshi

King Marth were able to just earn 1 more Max HP point (worth 100G), his price would jump up to 149,400G. But he can't, so it stays rounded down to 149,200G.

Thank you both :P

[PapaDragon]

I'm sure that the following classes are the latest ones to reach the corresponding parameter's green.

HP: Trickster, Dark Flier, Valkyrie / Manakete

Str: General

Meg: Sage

Skl: Sage

Spd: Sorcerer

Def: General / Manakete

Res: Valkyrie, War Monk/Cleric, Sorcerer / Manakete

Thank you both :P

Actually, I just noticed that I forgot to include the rounding down part in my final formulation - I fixed my post to reflect this! Sorry for the confusion!

[Tables]

I'm sure that the following classes are the latest ones to reach the corresponding parameter's green.

HP: Trickster, Dark Flier, Valkyrie / Manakete

Str: General

Meg: Sage

Skl: Sage

Spd: Sorcerer

Def: General / Manakete

Res: Valkyrie, War Monk/Cleric, Sorcerer / Manakete

Yeah, it was a long shot suggestion to check. I did the numbers myself, this is what I came up with (listed down to the first universally available class for Avatar/streetpass characters, and including all tied/exceeding classes as well):

HP: Dancer (64), Manakete/Taguel (62), Dark Flier/Trickster/Valkrie (61)

STR: Manakete/General (63)

MAG: Sage (39)

SKL: Sage (38)

SPD: Sorcerer (36)

DEF: Manakete (38), Wyvern Lord/General (35)

RES: Manakete (38), Sorcerer/War Monk/Great lord (M)/Valkrie (37)

The numbers given are the difference between base and cap. So classes with a low base but good cap (e.g. Sorcerer SPD, Great Lord RES), or just a really high cap (Sage MAG, General STR) tend to be the ones you see.