irma_gedden Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm both early and late to the Fire Emblem party. I got the GBA game right when it came out (the Lyn and Eliwood one--I know it had been available in Japan years before). I really liked that game but I didn't keep up with the series. Well last week I bought this game and it pretty much ruined my life. It's amazing on every level. That being said, there a bunch of FE Universe gaps I guess I need to fill in. Perhaps my question doesn't really pertain to the broader universe. Anyway, in my playthrough, my female Avatar married Chrom. I wwas genuinely shocked when I found out about FeMU's fellblood (nice [plot twist). Anyway, does that mean that Lucina has fellblood and exalted blood?? Further just what in the world would that mean? Then at the end of the game when Avatar is rediscovered by Chrom and LIssa she/he no longer has the mark on her hand. Does that mean that the "fell blood" is gone? I have many other questions/comments about this game but this one immediately [popped to mind after my first playthrough. I know a lot of different characters can become Lucina's mother, but this is an interesting problem to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Lightning Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This has always intrigued me as well. I don't think they ever specify how exactly Validar's lineage acquired the fell blood needed to resurrect Grima (whether the blood was actually Grima's or it was part of a blood contract, which I suspect is the case with the Exalts and Naga). I personally believe that the "fellblood" isn't literally Grima's blood, but blood that is cursed with his power, and the ability to restore Grima lies in how much of this blood you have, hence the mark showing if you are a suitable vessel. But once Grima is destroyed for good, the mark vanishes. I think this indicates that the Avatar's blood is no longer cursed with Grima's power, and the cursed lineage of the Grimleal ceases to exist. And regarding Lucina (as well as Morgan), I suppose they technically would have "fellblood" like their mother, but it wouldn't mean anything in the long run in regards to becoming Grima's vessel, since only the Avatar had the correct amount of fellblood to be the vessel and Lucina and Morgan would've been tainted with the Exalted Naga blood to boot. But yes, its still an interesting concept to ponder. I suppose the developers never really went into it because of both Lucina's variable parentage and the fact it wouldn't have done much to differentiate the story in regards to her also being of Grimleal descent, though it is a nice twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't think any of the children of the avatar could become a vessel to Grima, mainly because the story kinda states that it required generations of 'eugenics' to produce the avatar and that they needed to keep the blood pure and in the case of Lucina or any potential children that has exalted blood, this is especially true since they are stated to have the Exalt's brand, but no the Mark of Grima. This could well be just a result of the game's freedom concerning pairing, but if you take it 'seriously' it would seem like, excuse my biology lingo, the Exalt's brand is a 'dominant trait' while the mark of Grima is a 'recessive trait', meaning both parents need fellblood for their children to have it while only one parent with the Exalt's brand can pass it on to its children. So properly speaking, a FeMU parented Lucina has both Exalted blood and fell blood 'genes' but only the Exalted blood is expressed. As for the mark disappearing, my theory is that the fellblood is a sign that the individual is filled with a part of Grima's power and when there's enough of it, the individual is marked as a potential vessel for its spirit. When the avatar destroyed Grima at the end of the game, s/he annihilated any trace of his power, including the power that gave him/her the mark. As such, the mark disappeared with Grima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've assumed Felblood is Major Grima+the Heart of Grima (which is what MU's mother carried). Also, with Grima completely gone in the good end, it effectively means that Grima's blood enchantments hold no power anymore. The normal ends leave that possibility open however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drgnquester Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It leads me to question why exactly is the Avatar so worried about Grima resurrecting again in the Normal ending. If it requires such selective breeding/eugenics to create a vessel, shouldn't the Avatar not have to worry too much because the chance of another vessel appearing would be slim? Especially if they marry into the Exalted bloodline. Any attempt on the Exalted blood would spark a war. The chance would lessen even more if the Avatar married a manakete. Morgan/Nah would still be alive in a thousand years, and their blood would be too diluted to be vessels (going by what everyone said above.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 ^Because Naga says Grima will reawaken some time in the future. I'd assume it means that Grima would now be able to come back even if there isn't a proper vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 ^Because Naga says Grima will reawaken some time in the future. I'd assume it means that Grima would now be able to come back even if there isn't a proper vessel. In that case, why did Validar even try to make a vessel if Grima didn't need it to return? ...Awakening is so confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I've always thought if Grima was to be reawaken after Chrom slashes him, the remnants of the Grimleal would need another vessel and another ritual, because it makes no sense for them not to. The story says that Marth did exactly the same thing as Chrom does in the ending and Grima still needed a ritual to return (in both timelines). So I think that, when Naga references Grima possibly awakening in the future, she speaks of people who might try to awaken him again. Even if he needs a ritual to be awakened, he still remains a threat, because he exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The story doesn't say anything about Marth and Grima, Marth and the first Exalt are different people. That said, if you follow the theory about Grima being a compilation of all the insane Earth Dragons, combined with how Avatar is apparently already Grima but hasn't awakened yet, it could be possible that Avatar is merely someone with the necessary traits to control them and the Awakening Validar preforms is merely meant to bring back the actual Dragons (future Avatar was able to use them just as easily as past Avatar could have, he had the same power up until then and the only difference was that he was evil). However, Awakening's story isn't meant to be (or shouldn't be) taken seriously, it's best at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribute Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The only good thing to come out of this is imagining Lucina with an exalt mark in one eye and a grima mark in the other like a demented husky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irma_gedden Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Thanks for all of the rpelies, this has helped me sort this out. I don't think any of the children of the avatar could become a vessel to Grima, mainly because the story kinda states that it required generations of 'eugenics' to produce the avatar and that they needed to keep the blood pure and in the case of Lucina or any potential children that has exalted blood, this is especially true since they are stated to have the Exalt's brand, but no the Mark of Grima. This could well be just a result of the game's freedom concerning pairing, but if you take it 'seriously' it would seem like, excuse my biology lingo, the Exalt's brand is a 'dominant trait' while the mark of Grima is a 'recessive trait', meaning both parents need fellblood for their children to have it while only one parent with the Exalt's brand can pass it on to its children. So properly speaking, a FeMU parented Lucina has both Exalted blood and fell blood 'genes' but only the Exalted blood is expressed. As for the mark disappearing, my theory is that the fellblood is a sign that the individual is filled with a part of Grima's power and when there's enough of it, the individual is marked as a potential vessel for its spirit. When the avatar destroyed Grima at the end of the game, s/he annihilated any trace of his power, including the power that gave him/her the mark. As such, the mark disappeared with Grima. I particularly like this take. I think the game does make it sound like you can breed for the fellblood trait, I guess just like Ylisse has been intentionally breeding the Exalt trait. That invites us to evaluate it in a genetic way. It just so happens that the Exalt brand appears to be quite dominant. I guess everyone in Fire Emblem land should be really thankful about that! This makes me wonder anew, however, just who the Avatar's mother is. She/He looks so different from Validar I just can't imagine. She looks more like a Ylissean than a Plegian. Maybe the Avatar had a Ylissean mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'd imagine part of why Validar looks the way he does is because he messes with Dark Magic. In most other FE games (and fantasy tales in general) sorcerers tend to look twisted like that, especially as they get older. Avatar looks more or less normal because he hasn't done much of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drgnquester Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Even though Awakening (and all of the FEs) stories are meant to be taken at face value, it's still fun trying to dissect them. I like discussions like these : D Anyway. I'd imagine the Avatar's mother is where they inherit their looks from, since they don't look ANYTHING like Validar (Thank goodness). That being said, we have no idea what goes on with this super breeding program of the Grimleal's, well, maybe we DO but we'd rather leave it unsaid. But it did take a long time to create a vessel worthy. As long as the Avatar's blood doesn't fall into the Grimleal's hands, Grima won't ressurect. Naga saying Grima may come back is her being realistic, because it's definitely a possibility. They can take all the countermeasures they wan't, but maybe 2000 years down the line Grima gets brought back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 An important thing to note in this was the importance of the Avatar's mother carrying the Heart of Grima. Without it, there cannot be a ritual. Validar pretty much states his blood was already concentrated enough for him to become a vessel, only he does not carry the heart himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdports Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm both early and late to the Fire Emblem party. I got the GBA game right when it came out (the Lyn and Eliwood one--I know it had been available in Japan years before). I really liked that game but I didn't keep up with the series. Well last week I bought this game and it pretty much ruined my life. It's amazing on every level. That being said, there a bunch of FE Universe gaps I guess I need to fill in. Perhaps my question doesn't really pertain to the broader universe. Anyway, in my playthrough, my female Avatar married Chrom. I wwas genuinely shocked when I found out about FeMU's fellblood (nice [plot twist). Anyway, does that mean that Lucina has fellblood and exalted blood?? Further just what in the world would that mean? Then at the end of the game when Avatar is rediscovered by Chrom and LIssa she/he no longer has the mark on her hand. Does that mean that the "fell blood" is gone? I have many other questions/comments about this game but this one immediately [popped to mind after my first playthrough. I know a lot of different characters can become Lucina's mother, but this is an interesting problem to consider. From what I understand, the awnser is Yes and Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) In that case, why did Validar even try to make a vessel if Grima didn't need it to return? ...Awakening is so confusing. When Naga says Grima will be back, they say it with some certainty. There isn't any mention of a vessel for Grima during the first Exalt's time either. So maybe Grima only needed a vessel this time or something? That or Chrom striking the final blow just knocked out Grima and he'll wake up soon. And what's the deal with this Heart of Grima. Who is Avatar's mother that she carries this thing in her blood or something. There's so little care put into Awakening's story... Edited February 1, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've heard about this 'Heart of Grima' and I went through the game a couple of times. Where is it mentioned? Edit: Where's is it mentioned that the Avatar's mother held the Heart of Grima and Validar the blood. The only mention about the Heart I can think of is when Validar says to the Avatar that he holds the Heart of Grima. Edited February 1, 2014 by LuxSpes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think it's just inferred that the Avatar must have gotten the Heart from his/her mother, because Validar doesn't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Why do I think that's just a metaphor gone wrong or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think it's just inferred that the Avatar must have gotten the Heart from his/her mother, because Validar doesn't have it. The way I saw it, the Heart of Grima is just a term used to refer to someone that is able of being Grima's Vessel. The Avatar's mother just happened to have enough of 'grima's blood' that combined to Validar's, they gave birth to an individual that had a pure enough version of this 'blood' to host Grima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Why do these characters have Grima's blood anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Why do these characters have Grima's blood anyway? FE4 style Holy Blood? That's what I thought it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 FE4 style Holy Blood? That's what I thought it was... Yeah, but how did characters end up with Grima's blood? We're not given any explanation, not even theb are minimum that we got regarding Bishop Galle or whatshisname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irma_gedden Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Great discussion. I was thinking, at one point Tiki says something like "you have blood like mine" and later Naga says the same. Is it possible that Avatar's mother was some kind of Divine dragon person like Tiki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymbalina's Revenge Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Great discussion. I was thinking, at one point Tiki says something like "you have blood like mine" and later Naga says the same. Is it possible that Avatar's mother was some kind of Divine dragon person like Tiki? Well, Tiki's supposed to be the last of the divine dragons along with Xane and Gotoh (see the thread about who/what Nowi actually is), so that just opens up another line of unanswerable questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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