Ricken!Owain!Morgan vs Ricken!Laurent!Morgan

[MelonGx]

Olivia!Lucina / Morgan, target Throne Zerker.

ROM: -2 9 0 3 3 -4 3

ATK: 95 / 107 / 111 (-13 / -1 / +3)

HIT: 234 / 238 / 244 (-14 / -10 / -4)

RLM: -2 10 2 4 1 -5 2

ATK: 96 / 108 / 112 (-12 / 0 / +4)

HIT: 236 / 240 / 246 (-12 / -8 / -2)

VGM: 11 -1 3 1 -1 2 -4 (for reference, TF-AF, Mag2-Str2)

ATK: 108 / 120 / 124 (-9 / 3 / 7)

HIT: 219 / 223 / 229 (-29 / -25 / -19)

ATK:

1) LB+TF+All2, Rally+Tonic

2) LB+TF+All2+Mag2+Agg, Rally+Tonic

3) LB+TF+All2+Mag2+Agg, Rally+Tonic+BarrackMag

HIT:

1) LB+All2, Tonic, Heart+Spec+Skl

2) LB+All2, Tonic, Heart+Spec+Skl+Lck

3) LB+All2, Tonic+BarrackSkl, Heart+Spec+Skl+Lck

Conclusion:

1) Both ROM and RLM have the same accuracy boost requirement.

2) RLM's 1 Mag advantage makes him available to replace both All2 & Mag2 with other skills in ATK3 condition, while ROM is just allowed to replace Mag2 only. That means, in ATK3 & HIT1/2 RLM can equip both AT and Hit+20 but ROM is just able to equip one of them. But in ATK3 HIT3 both ROM and RLM 's requirement return to the same.

3) ROM provides one more Double-Gale pair: Owain x FeMU.

Edited July 8, 2014 by MelonGx

[Ownagepuffs]

Nice find. I'd rather have 1 less magic and a double gale pair than RLM. Laurent should be doing VV anyway.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That's... A little hard to read. Mind if I check?

Olivia!Lucina@DF (LB/GF/All+2/DS+/filler) x Ricken!Owain!Morgan@Sage (LB/Agg/TF/All+2/Mag+2)

Lucina's atk: 42(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +9(Pairup) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) +11(5/15 CG) =87 -58 /4 =7.

Owain!Morgan's atk: 46(base) +9(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +5(TF) +2(All+2) +2(Mag+2) +2(tonic) +11(5/15 CG) =107 -58 /2 =24.

7+24+24+7+24+24 =110. Morgan can drop both All+2 and Mag+2 and Lucina can drop All+2 and it will still be an ORKO.

Thronie's Avo is 158, so 258 Hit is needed.

Lucina's Skl: 41(base) +3(mods) +7(Pairup) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =75.

Lucina's Lck: 45(base) +2(mods) +3(Pairup) +10(LB) +14(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =78.

Lucina's Hit: 151(base) +100(5/15 CG) +15(Morgan S) =266. Plenty of overkill.

Morgan's Skl: 43(base) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =67.

Morgan's Lck: 45(base) +3(mods) +10(LB) +14(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =76.

Morgan's Hit: 138(base) +100(5/15 CG) =238. Replace Mag+2 with Hit+20 and he hits 258 perfectly.

Both Lucina and Morgan's Skl is over 60, DS isn't a concern.

OK, so those two can take down anything on PP just fine. If you want to swap Morgan's All+2 for Galeforce/AT, change Morgan's CG to +4/20 (his atk is an odd number, so the loss of 1 damage won't make a difference on Thronie). But... Why Olivia!Lucina?

Nice find. I'd rather have 1 less magic and a double gale pair than RLM. Laurent should be doing VV anyway.

Laurent can't safely VV unless he's paired with Lucina, who is currently being hogged by Morgan.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[MelonGx]

Olivia!Lucina@DF: GF/DS+/V/Charm/filler

Olivia!Lucina always leads because she's the only VDS+ Lucina having access to 3rd-gen Support!Morgan.

Charm is important because it gives Hit+5 to Morgan.

With a RNG Mag manipulation, we can limit Olivia!Lucina's Mag up to 24 to provide 0 leading damage, which makes the pair immune to Counters.

Edited July 8, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you're fighting on EP, you get no Agg. Even with it, ROM would need Barracks to ORKO Thronie without help from Lucina. Also, Anti-counter strats in Apo are silly in general, simply because 1-range Counterbombs are really rare. There are none in Normal Apo, a handful in Wave 1 (who are incredibly spaced out and so fragile they die without Dual Strike most of the time), and Anna, who can be dealt with on PP. 1-range Counter is a huge deal in Lunatic+ because it's everywhere and you're outnumbered, but here it's simply not an issue. I even prefer to attack the Counter Snipers at 1-range, because I usually take less damage from Counter than from their Bows (and I have more HP than them, what's the worst that could happen?).

Here's the thing, though: the vast majority of people who beat Apo go in without a fully optimized team, without full knowledge of inheritance, having never heard of stat mods, etc, and they still eventually win. Trying to optimize Apo with no restrictions can go in two ways: optimizing for player error, and optimizing for bad RNG. You're optimizing for bad RNG- trying to get 100% on all thresholds- but not only can even a really good player make errors, but player error optimization tends to take care of the RNG bit as well, so long as you never enter a fight with a chance of death. Vantage is an inherently risky strat that is more about reaching power levels than either player error or RNG. Make a wrong move with a Vantage set (stay in range of an enemy you can't kill, break a weapon mid-battle) mean's you're dead. Hitting all the thresholds keeps you safe from the RNG, but the danger of player error is still present, and it also forces you to a more restrictive playstyle.

What should then be done with the power that Vantage does provide? Challenge runs. Vantage/Vengeance gives heavy EP sweeping potential that clears out waves of mooks that could otherwise take multiple turns to KO (a big deal on Wave 4) and gives that extra boost needed for bosses. But this set lacks Vengeance and thus breaks down on anything other than No Holds Barred... Which is why I don't like Vantage Lucina.

[MelonGx]

Player error only occurs on:

1) Mire

2) Lck99 Sorc, Anna, Zerker

3) Turn limit

Weapon's running out can be covered by AT which is available for ROM ATK3 HIT3 or RLM ATK3 HIT1/2/3. If calculated leading Lucina's power, the threshold could be lower.

Leading Lucina's weapon running out only matters on defeating more than 10 enemies in EP & one of them gets KOed within the first 1lead+2support hit.

Generally I care about more simplified & lazy buildings than challengeable strategies.

Edited July 8, 2014 by MelonGx

[Ownagepuffs]

Laurent can't safely VV unless he's paired with Lucina, who is currently being hogged by Morgan.

In my case it's different. I actually would rather have Morgan participate as a Ignis/Luna Galeforce skirmisher who marries one of the gale girls (Gaius!Kjelle in my file) as opposed to having him hog Lucy as a VV unit. He isn't in dire need of Lucy's amazing powers since he himself is amazing. Laurent, on the other hand, doesn't have Galeforce so his only choice is to VV in order for him to reach his full potential. Might as well let Laurent have his day, right?

I don't think I've seen this being menioned, but did you know Lon'qu!Laurent has the same "sweet spot" mod spread as a +Mag/-Def MU in Magic and Defense? Namely, +4 Mag and -3 Defense, and the huge +5 skill mod makes up for the lack of skill +2 access when reaching the 100% DS threshold. Pretty cool.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Player error only occurs on:

1) Mire

2) Lck99 Sorc, Anna, Zerker

3) Turn limit

No, player error occurs any time you have a brain fart. They can be anything from misjudging your unit's range (specifically Rallybots/Olivia), failing to properly account for proc damage on your non-VV units (both incoming and outgoing, especially when enemy Counter/Vengeance is involved), or even something as silly as forgetting to rally. If you don't want to account for it, that's fine, it's pretty rare, but it can happen and will if you play Apo enough.

Also, the vast majority of errors are caused by carelessness (which any EP-centric strat promotes, by the way). If you have a margin of error, the first error serves as a wake-up smack, dramatically reducing the possibility of a second error.

To each his own, I guess. If farming massive piles of Supreme Emblems is your thing, that's fine. Personally I don't see the point of keeping more than 50 (the maximum amount a Streetpass team can hold).

[MelonGx]

FE:A has a function to check enemy range, both specific unit's and overall's.

I don't even use Dancer in Apo. She might be useful for dealing with Wave 5 Anna+Zerker simultaneously in this case but if the turn limit isn't a problem then staffbot > dancer.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Checking one unit's move/attack range is easy, but there's no function to automatically move all your units within 3 spaces of both rallybots. It also doesn't account for things like Galeing mooks to reach stronger enemies behind them, notably when you have multiple pairs to move and only a limited number of mooks to gale off.