Loki Laufeyson Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 All is not well in Glasgow. This surprises me not. Hooligans Given how strongly those guys fought for the yes vote, i was expecting something in the form of rioting. well then Hue~ This whole business has been pretty educational. And how bullshit the US system is. If the voting was rigged, thats the most bizarre looking rig ive ever seen. I think the accusations of that are bunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Man you think a 55-45 vote is close? The 1995 Quebec referendum in Canada was like 50.5-49.5. For my part I was a little worried that if Scotland gained independence, all the renewable energy growth in Scotland would grind to a halt and they'd revert to the Northern Oil to finance themselves, so I'm a little glad that the vote was No. But I'm an outsider with no real stake in the matter, so. Considering we were basically told that the yes campaign would be beaten quite comfortably by more than that, it was rather close at least to me. The poll right before the referendum had it as 48%-52%, so it was only 3% less than that. Well, I say only but it is a considerable chunk. Just the fact that it is a least a big chunk of people supporting independence. I don't think it was a "decisive" or overwhelming victory as say that paper with David Cameron claims, at least. I was aware the Quebec secede claims were close, but not that close. I have no idea about energy so I'm not even sure about that second thing. This surprises me not. Hooligans Given how strongly those guys fought for the yes vote, i was expecting something in the form of rioting. When I said unionists that means those that are for the no vote in this case; since they're waving union jacks and singing God Save the Queen. Sore winners or something. Unless you were just saying that the people who wanted the yes vote were just passionate and that was bound to go poorly, especially in Glasgow. Not sure which. I've heard someone's been stabbed, too, but I believe that's just a rumour currently as the police haven't said anything. glad i'm in edinburgh right now, so far I haven't seen anything like that - well, aside from some very dejected people At least for the most part it has seemed democratic and fair, in an age where democracy is constantly questioned. I'm proud of that. Edited September 19, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Idk, I'm hearing a LOT of talk about Federal UK from politicians on the radio. I'm really hopeful that will come through, it's something we've needed for a very long time. i barely know jack-shit about the uk government, but given that wales and scotland aren't going anywhere anytime soon, i feel like a federal system would be better than the current unitary system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I wanted to have a bit of a rant. I know the feeling will go away soon. The fact that Scottish Labour were celebrating the victory was a fucking joke. The four areas that majorly voted yes were some of the four poorest areas in Scotland. And Labour are celebrating the fact that they've won one over the people that they are supposed to be helping? Ones that have consistently voted Labour and which have pretty much received diddly dick in support over the years. Labour just don't want devolution for Scotland because they know that's the only place that support them despite no attempts to actually help anyone. Fuck Labour. But fuck the other parties even more. Truly I believe classism to be a real issue since people who are middle class or higher class don't want to take the risk because they are content with what they have. They perhaps don't even want to look into the issue or are apathetic or are proud to be "british". I don't personally maintain some vague sense of british pride. That is not that there is not valid reasons to have voted no. We have been part of an ill-fated union for over 300 years that may have been powerful at one point, but is now lapsing due to austerity cuts and political divides. Even if I'm middle class I can't say that I don't see the problems everywhere. I swear, if things get worse; I will be so fucking pissed if UKIP end up getting into power. I hope you know what you're doing, and I hope it will work out. If your hope of a federal UK is the only thing that kept you voting against independence, then I wish you the best of luck. Or you will get it, and it will be Nigel Farage at the helm, because he has come out in support of it too. I think I'm done for now. Russell Brand did a video on this occasion. Edited September 20, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 No offence dude, but you're being full of it if you think it's fair to turn your back on the poor in England and act like you have any moral high ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) No offence dude, but you're being full of it if you think it's fair to turn your back on the poor in England and act like you have any moral high ground.It doesn't matter what we vote, the poor are going to get fucked over anyway. LibLabCon, after all. None of them are actually interested in helping. The only thing you can say is that the right-wing is worse, which seems to be the majority now with or without Scotland. Edited September 20, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) If you want to be cynical of Westminister, I respect that, but you've got no basis for assuming that the SNP actually care any more than they do either. Reminder that Salmond voted FOR the Bedroom Tax in Westminster, and then when it was unpopular with the public put in place the subsidies. And don't even get me started on the Trump Golf Course thing... PS: Brussels has no love for the working class either. I refuse to accept that the solution to these problems is to bail out and leave our countrymen behind, and take our chances with a mystery box. It's pretty disrespectful for anyone to make the claim that No voters are all privileged middle class people who don't care about the poor. Edited September 20, 2014 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) If you want to be cynical of Westminister, I respect that, but you've got no basis for assuming that the SNP actually care any more than they do either. Reminder that Salmond voted FOR the Bedroom Tax in Westminster, and then when it was unpopular with the public put in place the subsidies. And don't even get me started on the Trump Golf Course thing... PS: Brussels has no love for the working class either. I refuse to accept that the solution to these problems is to bail out and leave our countrymen behind, and take our chances with a mystery box. It's pretty disrespectful for anyone to make the claim that No voters are all privileged middle class people who don't care about the poor. Indeed, I never said that I thought the SNP would care any more. The SNP promised more benefits, but who knows if they were telling the truth? The poor wanted to take the chance though, something (generally) that the middle or higher classes were not willing to. The rise of heavy right-wing idealogy all over Europe is the thing that is much more worrying to me. The first sentence is something I can respect, even if I disagree. Though there were a huge amount of reasons people voted for either side. If it came across like that, then be aware that was not what I was wanting to say. I don't think privileged middle class don't care about the poor... I just think that they will try to see it from their perspective. And their perspective through what the media said is that it's not worth it and their future jobs and living would be in jeopardy. And that may scare some people... and we won't know how true it was for now. Then again, there are those who always knew they were going to vote no. And besides, I'm a privileged middle class person. I don't really feel like arguing. What did you think of that Russell Brand video if you watched it, out of interest? Edited September 20, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Dude, no shit the poor will be willing to take a chance. They have the least to lose. That's kind of the whole point, and with all due respect, the money isn't going to exactly trickle down if the economy goes bottoms up so it isn't really a case of solely self preservation we're talking about here. I'm proud of Britain's welfare state, that we have a country where take care of our less fortunate rather than leaving them to die on the street like many others. But that doesn't mean I'm buying into *Salmond's Socialist Paradise* with infinite money everywhere for everyone. As for the video, I got the vague idea within a minute or two, and I can say he's correct, most of the media was biased to No. It's also true that they revved into gear after that one poll indicated Yes was ahead. But at the same time you'd have to be pretty stupid to think these sources aren't inherantly biased all the time anyway; all of our papers are leaning towards one side or the other and the BBC is a BRITTISH establishment. Whilst I think Robinson was frequently out of order, I can't exactly blame them entirely either, and outlets like Radio4 provided some very impartial coverage on the whole (that's more to do with TV BBC being total pants at anything but Qi and HIGNFY, long live Radio4, but whatever). Yes had by far the more prominent activism going on so to be totally honest, I think a lot of it balances out in the end. Edited September 20, 2014 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Dude, no shit the poor will be willing to take a chance. They have the least to lose.It was just an observation people have made, yes. I'm proud of Britain's welfare state, that we have a country where take care of our less fortunate rather than leaving them to die on the street like many others. But that doesn't mean I'm buying into *Salmond's Socialist Paradise* with infinite money everywhere for everyone.The sad part is that the NHS was used to instigate fear in people in both camps - in boths cases, the NHS is probably going to see cuts, so you might not see your great welfare state for much longer. Yes had by far the more prominent activism going on so to be totally honest, I think a lot of it balances out in the end.Perhaps, but there is nationalism lurking between both. Flag-waving and burning of the saltire and the union jack, nazi gestures, all that shit. All I'm saying is that if that UKIP+Conservatives coalition goes ahead anyway, and is brought to power, don't complain because you voted to stay and suffer together with Britain, the same I would have to admit if Salmond's Socialist Paradise buggered up for me. I mean, you did say this before: Like, with so much cynicism for Politicians it's a bloody wonder I can be bothered to go vote anyway, since as far as I see it, things can only continue to be rubbish no matter what. In that sense, I can only blindly cling to that idealistic belief that things will go in the best possible direction for us all if we stay together, because if not then I have no belief in anything.It's something that's over with, and it's time to see the results. What I said before was probably born out of some disappointment. Edited September 21, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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