TOUHOU ~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

I need to remember what deathbombing is when I'm actually playing

seriuously

[Balcerzak]

The frame window for deathbombing is small enough, that given human reaction time, I'm pretty sure you need to decide to actually press the key before you're dead anyway, but yes, do try to work on that.

[Balcerzak]

Double-posting because can. I probably stayed up too late working on ESOD and still didn't get a proper clear (my stage 5 and 6 are hella weak, and practicing on Hard for the stage apparently threw me off big time on the spellcards when I tried going back to Normal). Anyway, my current spellcard progress at the end of the 'draft', considering I'll be working all day today and then X-Men Days of Future Past.

If/when the replays are posted as a draft shadow, please only comment on stages 1-4, proto/scarlet/etc. like I said, 5 and 6 are just embarrassing.

On a plus side, on one of my "Rage Continues" (as I call them when they happen) I did capture Red Magic, so there's that to feel good about...

[Scarlet]

The frame window for deathbombing is small enough, that given human reaction time, I'm pretty sure you need to decide to actually press the key before you're dead anyway, but yes, do try to work on that.

In EoSD and Sakuya!PCB, yes, as 6 frames (0.1 seconds) is very difficult to hit purely reaction-based, especially if you don't have the V-Sync-Patch installed and have to deal with another frame of input lag.

However, in MoF and all later games, the deathbombing window is a constant 8 frames (~0.133 seconds), which is a bigger difference than it may seem; I've managed to hit that deathbombing window purely reactive reasonably often.

But yeah, anticipating a hit before it happens most definitely helps a lot and is much more reliable.

and practicing on Hard for the stage apparently threw me off big time on the spellcards when I tried going back to Normal

Yeah, be careful with that. Practicing on harder difficulties is good to improve your general dodging skills, but it's not very helpful at all if you're trying to get accustomed to a specific game in the series. Not knowing how to deal with the spellcards you'll be facing usually is a much bigger obstacle than having trouble dealing with stage enemies is, especially in EoSD/PCB/IN where a significant portion of the Hard/Lunatic spellcards are actually completely different from their Normal mode counterparts. Bombing stages is okay!

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

I fail to last word with Border Team :v

[Scarlet]

I fail to last word with Border Team :v

Not unheard of, as IN gives you precisely zero Last Spell time outside of spellcards, and still very little even during spellcards if you only have one bomb left.

Heck, during the stages themselves, I often fail to pull off Last Spells even when I would've been quick enough to deathbomb in any other game. I hate the Last Spell feature for a reason. :|

The absurdly long Last Spell intervals you can get on certain spellcards if you have like 5 or 6 bombs in stock are the exception rather than the rule.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Scarlet

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

well, it's not uncommon for me to die with lots of bombs since I'm a bit reluctant to use them and I find IN to be somewhat generous with bombs, so

[Wen Yang]

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33452

My 1st-ever PCB 1CC. Please critique (harsh criticism VERY welcome).

[metalsnowman3]

so any tips or mechanic changes for PCB? I think I have only played it once and got wrecked by that trio of girls.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

the things I can remember is that extends are rewarded after collecting a certain amount of point items instead of a certain score (and it actually shows how many you have/need)

there's these cherry petals that have something to do with this supernatural border, but i'm not really sure how that works

and that's what stage 4 bosses do

[Balcerzak]

Disqualified because of extra lives (which is why my entry reverted to my first, "lol, let's see how I do on hardmode straight" entry) but this was the one I was talking about: Also, a second one almost identical in decent until suck:

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33432

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33453

Edited May 31, 2014 by Balcerzak

[Fera]

So I had a full video of witty junk and I accidentally set EoSD's volume up too high so I wasted pretty much like 17 minutes. You get a text version of a PCB review instead.

[spoiler=Fera's Happy Fun Time, Kopfjäger Style]Disclaimer: SakuyaA makes for a generally boring game to watch, especially on Easy Mode, so my comments will probably be pretty lethargic.

Stage 1/Letty: Pretty good, though you barely went 5 Power shy of a maxed gauge before Letty. Easy Mode is so leisurely. I feel like a good cup of tea.

Stage 2/Chen: Graze some bullets during those Supernatural Borders in order to increase your CherryMax value, preferably unfocused if you're comfortable with that. CherryMax determines your cap of Cherry points, which in turn determines value of blue point items collected.

You don't really need to go focused during Chen's cards, they last a long time anyway, so you can just shoot unfocused for a while to build up some Cherry. Shooting focused reduces your Cherry gain by 90%. Bit of an unexpected death on Sage's Rumbling, though.

Stage 3/Alice: I'm really wondering where Alice wanders in from. What's she got to do with the Netherworld? Bit shy to go up to the Point of Collection after mid!Alice came up, I guess you were a little wary. Good dodging on London Dolls though.

Stage 4: That death at the start was a little odd. Nothing much to worry about though, just a simple misjudgment. Quite some items dropped, plus a distinct lack of slow and steady streaming. Calm down, sit down and move gently across the screen. Streaming will also help you graze for buttloads of CherryMax! Man that's a lot of bombs, though you managed to calm down to dodge through the last fairy; that's pretty great!

Prismrivers: All right, here's where the game pumps the brakes and gets down into the bunker buster. Bombs being used quite liberally; a solid strategy for someone just starting out, though not a habit you want to carry.

I notice that Phantom Dinning needs some knowledge of restreaming: basically, you just move across the screen slowly as in regular streaming, then before you get to the edge, you sprint the last bit to allow the bullets to leave a gap in their point tracking and let you pass back through in reverse.

You can see how helpful streaming gets if you watch how you did the nonspell after Phantom Dinning! Damn, though, Prism Concerto, probably their hardest attack, doesn't get seem to get any easier in Easy Modo. Good decision to bombspam it.

Stage 5: Bit greedy in the early stage part, and that bomb afterwards wasn't really quite required. The bomb before mid!Youmu was a bit of a panic too, I guess. Scary boolet. You handled mid!Youmu pretty well, all things considered! A lot of people don't like her nonspells.

Konpaku Youmu: Oof, you get hit by the nonspell just as I say it. Solid spellcard performance though. I didn't see what you got killed by in Delusion of Enlightenment, probably some random bullet. Generally you just want to stream it to avoid being killed by the red bubblebeams.

Stage 6: Twice saved by the spell-end, both in the nonspell and Ageless Obsession! Let's see if that fortune carries over to Yuyuko.

Saigyouji Yuyuko:
Nonspell 1: I kept waiting for you to die because you were in a pretty bad place to dodge (and hit, but this is SakuyaA so that doesn't matter), nice one.
Wandering Soul: Much easier than the Normal version, where the lasers end up hitting the middle of the screen. Border break saves you a life, but it's otherwise done all right.
Nonspell 2: Again with getting led into a corner. Should probably work on that.
Mortality -Illusion-: This should be simple left-right dodging, but I guess you didn't want to risk the bubbles' hitboxes. Try to learn them.
Nonspell 3: Two bombs used to spam after what seems like an unexpected death. This nonspell just encourages up-and-down dodging. Remember that you can go backwards too!
Ghost Butterfly: Stay away from beeg bad boom. Go around in a loop. That's all really, for the Easy Mode version at least.
Nonspell 4: Proof of concept of restreaming. Watch this to get a general idea.
False Soul: Oof, you were doing so well at restreaming this. Almost. And then it looks like you just threw a bomb at her out of rage, lol.
Sumizome Perfect Blossom: I really don't think there's any trick to this card other than just not getting caught in a corner and reactively dodging along the way.

YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE DONE

Resurrection Butterfly: ayyyy lmao get bombed lol rekt (Those borders were seriously lucky though wtf how)

[Balcerzak]

PCB was ludicrously easy to beat (with continues) even on Hard. Without continues, I'mma struggling so much though. Marisa B so few bombs (but so powerful!)

[metalsnowman3]

So anyone want to give me any help? http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33456 Also, how many stages are there on easy and how does that border stuff work? Thank you for any input.

[Balcerzak]

You can access all six stages on easy, unless my memory has really betrayed me (Yuyuko's final spell goes from like 10% reflowering to 30%, to 50%, to 100% I think?).

As far as border goes, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it activates whenever your +XXXXX number of chery hits 50k, and then it ticks down time as your cherry max gets raised by the 50k. It's a free bullet-cancel if you're struck and you can activate it early with the bomb key. You get more points if you let it time out itself though, I believe. You raise your +XXXXX cherry by firing unfocused and collecting cherry items. I honestly can't recall if grazing does anything, a visit to the wiki would probably help more than taking anything I say to heart. Watching your replay now.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

EoSD is the only one that has one less stage on Easy mode, so 6

I don't know everything, but I know it's related to those small cherry petals you can collect (the pink squares) and that while it's active, you don't die or spend bombs, but if either of those happen, it ends and you don't get the bonus you would get from it

or something

[Balcerzak]

Your fundamentals seem great, a lot of time you bomb when you think you're in danger but you're actually not. This is better than dying with unused bombs don't get me wrong, but just learn to be a little more comfortable with your limits.

I'll try to do an easymode run with that type myself and see if I can't come up with anything better to advise you with.

[metalsnowman3]

Thanks for the help, yeah I think somewhere early on I got hit while in that border state and was confused why I didn't die. Also, dang I thought I made it to the last stage lol. Sakuya has what 4 bombs to start, so if I think I'm close to danger I was just bombing, though I messed that up in the end anyways. The first 3 stages I think were like a breeze, but stage 4 it seemed to me the difficulty rose quite a bit. Oh well I should have some more time to practice and get more than one run in for this round!

[Balcerzak]

Okay, so this is an incredibly sloppy run, I've not practiced Prismriver with Sakuya at all, and it shows, and I basically never bomb, so if you combine your willingness to bomb with some of the technical aspects of clearing some of the spellcards I try to display, you should be golden. Honestly, someone who doesn't fuck up would be a better watch, but whatever. If there's a particular card you don't understand, ask.

well, it's a 1cc, barely

Edit: The other important thing to note, is while border is up, ot will autocollect everything for you. At max point uitem value too.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Balcerzak

[Lance Masayoshi]

http://prntscr.com/3oiesv

Goddamn it.

Agggggggg

[Scarlet]

Regarding cherry/borders, what Bal said is mostly correct, but to summarize:

Cherry:

- Determines the value of any point items you collect. If you have 300k Cherry, you get 300k points for collecting a point item at maximum value.

- You gain Cherry for collecting Cherry items and hitting enemies. Of note is that you gain about 10x as much Cherry unfocused as you gain focused, and that different shot types (even on the same character) have different rates of Cherry gain.

- Your maximum Cherry increases only through borders. Your max. Cherry increases by 30 for every bullet grazed focused during a border, by 80 for every bullet grazed unfocused during a border, and by 10000 for every border you don't break.

(Notice a trend? You want to be unfocused as much as possible for scoring purposes.)

- Capturing spellcards increases the value of Cherry items by 100 per spellcard, making it easier to get more borders (and to recover from dying/bombing).

- Dying reduces your Cherry by either 50% or 100k (whichever is smaller), or 33%/60k as Sakuya.

- Bombing reduces your cherry by varying degrees, but roughly 20% for Reimu, 28% for Sakuya and 30% for Marisa. This is not capped, so bombing at the wrong moment can completely ruin your score.

Borders:

- You get a border whenever your Cherry+ hits 50k. Anything that increases your Cherry will also increase your Cherry+ by the same amount, while anything that reduces your Cherry will not affect your Cherry+.

- Borders last 9 seconds (540 frames). Getting hit while a border is up will cancel the border instead of costing you a life, removing all bullets currently on-screen without fail. You can trigger the same effect manually by pressing the bomb button before the border runs out (without actually spending a bomb, of course). Strategic border breaks can be of tremendous help survival-wise, but if you're confident you don't need the bullet cancel at that moment, it's better to let the border run out without breaking it.

- While a border is active, all items on-screen are constantly drawn towards you at maximum value as if you were above the PoC at all times.

- If a border runs out without breaking, you will receive an immediate score bonus equal to 10 times your current Cherry, and as mentioned above, your max. Cherry will increase by 10000. Aside from NMNBing the game, this is by far the most efficient way to increase your scoring potential, so if you're going for score, do your best to break as few borders as possible.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Scarlet

[metalsnowman3]

wow that's crazy hopefully i can remember most of that for my next run lol. Thanks a lot!

Edited June 1, 2014 by metalsnowman3

[Lance Masayoshi]

I have progress and not so much progress

Its like Starcraft

Only harder

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

what difficulty is that

[Lance Masayoshi]

Easy, because I'm not doing normal until I conquer this game