TOUHOU ~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Kriemhild]

I feel like I'm missing a million formations that would be super great to have, even though it says I have 77.77%. D:

You can check this: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Genius_of_Sappheiros/Formations

He found all the Orichalcum/Adamantite chests, yet he missed the shortcut? Really? xD

Hey, the shortcut was in the boss area where I fought Biotopos! I didn't bother exploring it thoroughly!

I did map all of them out, but yeah, it didn't really occur to me that the game would place effectively invisible chests everywhere until I bumped into one completely by accident in Stage... 13 or 14, I believe. At that point I didn't really feel like going back and checking all the earlier stages for them, haha.

I think the Touhou wiki guide shows the locations of some of them. Since you already cleared those stages, it should be fine to see what the guide says about them.

I definitely need some DEX on my physical fighters, at the very least; like I said, they literally cannot hit anything in Stage 21, and that's with Headshot Goggles. Heck, they tend to miss even with Sanae's accuracy buff.

Also, at this point, Youmu needs more HP, because wow.

Dealing with the generics is a different story. My advice would be to avoid as many battles as you possibly can. Even then, you likely won't reach the end. So, whenever you do face an encounter. you should go all out and then save (closing the menu auto-saves). You'll quickly run out of MP/bombs, so return to the yellow circle (or just F12) and continue.

Aside from the Lucky Paw, I have absolutely none of all that. x_x

Lucky Hat and Lucky Shoes are forgeable. I'm not sure if you have access to both of them atm, but one of them should definitely be with Rinnosuke.

Thanks for all the advice, you two!

You're welcome, and good luck!

By the way, how would I best go about getting Satori some support skills like that barrier thing or the Refresh spell? I'm pretty sure you can learn them, but the enemies won't use it on me even when under Charm / I can't select it when they're under Control.

EDIT: Nvm, I got a couple.

You Charm them and pray that they were going to use that particular skill on that turn. With a maxed Learning tree, Satori gets a 100% learn rate on most of those spells.

Guys!!

Zun-sama finally had a child xD its a boy

Whoa, really?

What am I doing wrong?

[spoiler=Analysis]Stage parts - Perfect. You made it to Kanako with full power. That's all that matters.

Non-Spell #1 - You bombed, hmm. I hope this isn't an attack that consistently gives you trouble...

Onbashira - I consider this to be the toughest spell on Normal Mode, so capturing this is quite impressive. Good job!

Non-Spell #2 - Nice streaming, excellent re-streaming!

Rice Porridge - Another bomb, eh. Maybe it's because I'm a micrododge freak, but I find this to be Kanako's easiest spell. Still, bombing beats dying, and it's hard to deathbomb to Rice Porridge when you're filled with confidence.

Non-Spell #3 - You sorta got yourself a bit trapped there and had to bomb. It happens, sometimes. It's hard to actually keep track of all the bullet paths.

Hunting Ritual - You moved too slow and you sorta restricted yourself to horizontal movement. You're basically supposed to move in a circular arc around Kanako, almost reaching a quarter circle.

Non-Spell #4 - For the purple bubbles, I noticed you restricted yourself to a single direction. This will keep you alive, but you won't hit Kanako much then. It's advised that you try to follow Kanako during the purple bubbles, so you can hit Kanako more. Knives and green bullets were dealt with excellently.

Otensui - You were doing great... until you moved too quickly despite being in a micrododge moment. At least you deathbomb'd though. Still, though, at least you know how to deal with this. I couldn't figure Otensui out for two years, and even then, I needed Fera to show me how it's supposed to be done.

Moutain of Faith - First bombs were caused by the same mistake: trying to return to the center when it would clearly be safer to go further right. This spell requires a lot of patience. Your priority should be to move to the safer area, and only return to the center when the center appears to be safe. Yes, I use ReimuB as well and I'm well aware of how much the damage output is reduced if I often move all the way to the left/right.

As for the death, well, I'm not sure what you were trying to do here. If you wanted to slip between the cards, my advice is don't. The tiny size of the gaps + speed of the cards + general intensity of this spell makes it very difficult to preserve the concentration needed to slip between the gaps. If you wanted to dodge the whole card set, which I would advise, then you should move unfocused. In fact, most of my successful captures of this spell involved dealing with it 100% unfocused (yes, ReimuB, I don't use other shot types). There's simply no micrododging to encourage going focused at all.

Next deathbomb was due to similar reasons as the death mentioned above, I think. The death after that, you clearly could have dodged the blue wave my moving to the right unfocused. But you had no way to escape if you wanted to stay focused, I think.

Next deathbomb, again, being focused caused you to get hit. Next deathbomb, same. Final death, again, you were probably trying to slip between the gaps focused.

But to answer your question, what you were doing wrong is staying focused during the entirety of Mountain of Faith, and trying too hard to return to the center. My personal preference would be to go 100% unfocused throughout the entirety of the spell, and not being afraid to move to the far right or far left to avoid the card sets. Don't ever try to slip between the cards of the same set. This allowed me to have a much easier time capturing Mountain of Faith than Onbashira or Hunting Ritual, and I would even consider it to be the easiest final spell in Windows Touhou.

If you really want to increase your damage output, I suppose you can stay focused if you're at the center and you're not immediately being threatened. However, in all other situations, I would definitely recommend staying unfocused.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Railgun

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Rice Porridge Is the only normal mode kanako spell i can capture :v

[Balcerzak]

Thanks so much for the pointers, Proto.

Nonspell #1 actually does give me consistent trouble. Only occasionally can I get into the proper back and forth rhythm to dodge them all, but more often than not I overcorrect and run into a bullet, so I've taken to just safety bombing it if I'm feeling the slightest threatened.

Onabashira is actually the spell I have the easiest time with, lol.

Nonspell #2 took me quite awhile to get the hang off, and if I don't time the restream right it will still own me, but practice has made for a lot of improvement there, I'll say.

Rice Porridge is pretty much exactly the problems I have with Nonspell #1, to be honest. I'll go to try to move a tiny bit and my keyboard registers it as apparently pressing the key way longer than I intended and runs me into some bullets. For some reason streaming is way easier than micrododging, I don't know why.

Nonspell #3 I can usually do better on, but yeah, just had to get through it.

Hunting Ritual... is that the one with all the bubbles and the knives? I've never seen any way to get a clear path, so I pretty much always have been double bombing it. Circularly you say? I might have to go look at that on youtube or something.

NS4: I'll keep the advice about the bubble bullets in mind, cutting down on time of this will save from embarrassing mistake potential in the knife-streaming and green ball moments.

Otensui: That was actually the single furthest progress I've made on the spellcard. I'm still not sure if I'm picking quite the right times to pull off the restreaming alignments or not, and I kind of got scared/excited on the purple arrows.

Mountain of Faith: ...Nonfocused... Why did I never think of trying it that way? Also, I'm sure part of it is I'm just not familiar with how the waves come yet, I usually ragequit if I screw up too early in the stage/spells, so have only really tried braving MoF itself a small handful of times, I guess (usually low power last life too, this was the first time I got there basically full health.)

[Kriemhild]

The thing about Kanako is that most of her are attacks are based on reactive dodging. It's all about how fast you can think and how quickly you can act.

Also, regarding Non-Spell #2, I actually never stream it. I just move about half the screen's width from side to side unfocused. This makes the timing a lot easier, but there's also a chance that Kanako will keep moving to undesired locations, making this attack last forever. Streaming + Re-streaming is the proper method, I believe, but the timing of the re-streaming is extremely critical.

Anyhow, I tried to Practice Stage 6 to show you how to deal with the spells you have trouble with and found myself capturing Hunting Ritual, Miracle of Otensui, and Mountain of Faith. However, I was quite lax during the other parts, so don't try to get ideas from my crappy performances outside of those three spells. Here you go: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33648

[Scarlet]

I'll go to try to move a tiny bit and my keyboard registers it as apparently pressing the key way longer than I intended and runs me into some bullets.

Do you have the V-Sync patch installed? If not, that might be why - without it, MoF and all Windows games before it (dunno about the PC-98 ones) have one frame of input lag, which results in exactly what you described there.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Gais, how long should I ragequit IN after dying in Rainbow Danmaku at full bombs and lives?

[Scarlet]

Wait, "dying" as in simply losing one life, or going all the way from 8/8 to a Game Over?

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

losing a life (and 5 bombs because of that)

I craied

It's even worse when you consider I use Border Team and didn't even use my last spell to secure my no death run ;_;

[Scarlet]

Okay. xD

But yeah, that stings. ;/

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

And I can actually capture it with some reliability ;~;

To be fair, I did a pretty stupid thing in it this time which led it to that death >_>

Edited June 15, 2014 by Odo

[Wen Yang]

Can you folks comment on this? Want to see where I make mistakes and what needs to be improved:

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33596

[Balcerzak]

Do you have the V-Sync patch installed? If not, that might be why - without it, MoF and all Windows games before it (dunno about the PC-98 ones) have one frame of input lag, which results in exactly what you described there.

I honestly have no idea, I might have when I first installed ages ago, but I don't see any files left behind by a possible installer, how can I check?

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

you don't really use a installer, only place the appropriate files in the game's folder

or at least that's how I did it

the files that should be there are vpatch.ini, vpatch.exe, vpatch_thxx.dll, with xx being the number of the game (10 in MoF's case)

you can find the patches here

Edited June 15, 2014 by Odo

[Balcerzak]

Can you folks comment on this? Want to see where I make mistakes and what needs to be improved:

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33596

Okay, first thing's first: Always abuse familiars. Shift to Youkai form so you can pop their master and get all the delicious extra time points and the 1/10 point items (one per familiar destroyed). You do this occasionally, but you should do it every opportunity (the ones that clued me in were the very first familiar spawning enemies in the stage). As long as you swith back in the interval it takes the time units to fly to you (assuming you want to max human side) everything will be fine.

You panic bombed mystia's last nonspell. It would have been better to just destroy her familiars on that one so you don't have to worry about the white orbs chasing you into a corner.

For the fairies that spit out one familiar at regular intervals, try to let them shit out the full complement of 9 or so of them before popping them for max effect.

You probably didn't need to bomb the stage 4 fairies, but better safe than sorry I guess.

Boss Marisa's first nonspell had an embarrassing and easily avoidable deathbomb. you decided you weren't taking any chances in second nonspell, lol 2 bombs, probably not needed. Master Spark gave you some issues too, it's been so long since I fought marisa that I can't give good tips for that, but... Practice a little more maybe?

The death and rage bombs at stage 5 swirling fairies could have been avoided, tbh.

Reisen's opener is tricky for me too, but it can be managed, also, stop ragebombing after a death unless you're actually doing something that puts you in trouble. Reisen's first card had a safer method, imo, but since you captured it that's what counts really. Same with Reisen't final card.

Should have attempted to restream during Kaguya's opener, but I guess you got the deathbomb off at least.

You had the right idea on most of the last words, just a little more work on the execution.

[Scarlet]

Yup. If you don't have any files starting with "vpatch" in your game folder, the patch isn't installed.

I think I'm giving up on GoS. I don't see how the final boss is plausibly possible at my current levels (currently in the high 50s / low 60s, with the exception of Alice at Lv68 iirc); no matter what party I choose, I either lack the damage output necessary to win before I run out of MP/bombs, or the defensive abilities to survive more than two turns.

And I can't be bothered to grind any more than I already did, especially given the fact that the encounters in Stage 21 destroy my face so often that trying to grind against them feels kind of pointless.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Scarlet

[Balcerzak]

The thing about Kanako is that most of her are attacks are based on reactive dodging. It's all about how fast you can think and how quickly you can act.

Also, regarding Non-Spell #2, I actually never stream it. I just move about half the screen's width from side to side unfocused. This makes the timing a lot easier, but there's also a chance that Kanako will keep moving to undesired locations, making this attack last forever. Streaming + Re-streaming is the proper method, I believe, but the timing of the re-streaming is extremely critical.

Anyhow, I tried to Practice Stage 6 to show you how to deal with the spells you have trouble with and found myself capturing Hunting Ritual, Miracle of Otensui, and Mountain of Faith. However, I was quite lax during the other parts, so don't try to get ideas from my crappy performances outside of those three spells. Here you go: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33648

Many thanks for the replay, I will study it well.

you don't really use a installer, only place the appropriate files in the game's folder

or at least that's how I did it

the files that should be there are vpatch.ini, vpatch.exe, vpatch_thxx.dll, with xx being the number of the game (10 in MoF's case)

you can find the patches here

Yup. If you don't have any files starting with "vpatch" in your game folder, the patch isn't installed.

I think I'm giving up on GoS. I don't see how the final boss is plausibly possible at my current levels (currently in the high 50s / low 60s, with the exception of Alice at Lv68 iirc); no matter what party I choose, I either lack the damage output necessary to win before I run out of MP/bombs, or the defensive abilities to survive more than two turns.

And I can't be bothered to grind any more than I already did, especially given the fact that the encounters in Stage 21 destroy my face so often that trying to grind against them feels kind of pointless.

OH, my. Well, maybe this will be helpful. I did not have any such things installed at all, it seems.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

That death at Rainbow Danmaku is bothering me

I need to try that no miss clear

I don't even care I can't use it for the draft, I just need to

Edited June 15, 2014 by Odo

[Balcerzak]

Can you folks comment on this? Want to see where I make mistakes and what needs to be improved:

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=33596

I did a quick run for you to compare. Ignore the fact that I never bomb, ever. I forgot to turn my key remapper on, so, that was certainly a thing that happened. Anyway, aside from some really dumb greed mistakes and sloppy play, most of the boss fights at least should be instructive. Note specifically on the Reisen spellcards and on Fire Rat Robe where I exploit vertical movement to make life easier, this will be so much more useful in higher difficulties, unless I'm completely off my rocker. Also, fuck yeah, captured Kaguya's Dawn card. *fist pump*

Edit: Anyway, my score of 1426873730, while lower than your 1445794460 can easily be made up for by the extra lives I would've had if I was physically able to bomb (unless touhou wiki is giving me the wrong point values for lives in stock).

Edited June 15, 2014 by Balcerzak

[Fera]

today I have experienced hot ORAxMUDA action

Sakuya is pretty cool

time to read part 4

[Balcerzak]

Progress. Thanks to Proto's tips I've got clears of all cards (save MoF) on the board, and I probably could have cleared the final itself if I'd been quicker on the bomb button, or maybe focused for harder hitting here or there. Still, amazing progress from just a little tips (and maybe that vsync helped too on the opener and the rice porridge.)

[Wen Yang]

Kalas...

UPDATE the draft already.

[Scarlet]

So I finally reached the final phase of the final boss today

It regenerates 10999 HP per turn and Youmu freaking Konpaku does 0 damage to it

Yeeeah, that's totally going to happen

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Pick a God and pray?

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

huh

i somehow captured Miracle of Otensui

don't expect me doing this again i also was dumb and forgot to save the replay

Edited June 16, 2014 by Odo

[Kriemhild]

So I finally reached the final phase of the final boss today

It regenerates 10999 HP per turn and Youmu freaking Konpaku does 0 damage to it

Yeeeah, that's totally going to happen

You screwed up the second phase of the battle. Try doing it right next time.

huh

i somehow captured Miracle of Otensui

don't expect me doing this again i also was dumb and forgot to save the replay

On Normal, that's quite impressive. On Easy, that's even more impressive. It's much tougher on Easy than Normal. How did you do it?