TOUHOU ~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Kriemhild]

The problem with going all green is that I generally experience a lot of silly deaths. Especially in a game that excels at tempting me with greed. So I would probably have a better chance with a lot of lives than a lot of bombs.

You mean if it wasn't for Double Black Death Butterfly, you'd have perfect cleared SA?

And sure, an MoF analysis would be nice.

[Djeets]

By this time, you already can 1cc SA right lev?

Edited March 25, 2014 by pukuriripo

[Fera]

yeah, I can already get down everything else to memorization

double black death butterfly is random, and has no memorization other than "these float left, and these float right".

[Kriemhild]

So I finally reached Flying Fantastica (using Continues) for the first time. I wasn't really sure what to expect. I had 0 lives and 0 bombs, so I didn't really have much hope in capturing it, especially after hearing all of RAYKITTY~'s scary stories. Then this happened:

Still though, the fact that I survived Fantastica for so long without dying makes me much more confident about it. I'm not sure what RAYKITTY~ was complaining about. With a bit of practice, I can probably capture it. The sad part is that I didn't actually clear Fantastica, so no Practice Mode for me...

Anyhow, UFO Analysis

lolStage1. lolNazrin.

Stage 2 can lead to possible greed deaths; may need to memorize.

I'm getting better at Kogasa's final spell; may practice for mastery.

Stage 3 has a lot of greed deaths; may also need to memorize.

lolIchirin. Except the final spell. The lasers can be hard to read sometimes. May plan to bombskip.

Stage 4 is very easy to perfect clear when not being concerned with UFOs. UFO temptations can be quite fatal, however. May need to resist greed.

lolNue. Murasa's second spell is easy but it's hard to hit her. Twelve anchors can get annoying too. Sinker Ghost is the most evil spell in this game.

Stage 5 is actually even easier to perfect clear (stage parts). And UFO-greed deaths don't seem to happen quite as often as Stage 3. A very pleasant stage.

Nazrin is hard to hit in her spell. Shou is hard to hit in her first spell. Vajra is evil, but not as much as Sinker Ghost since one bomb is sufficient.

Stage 6, oh, wow, this is even easier than Stage 2 since you'd have to fail really hard to die trying to generate UFOs.

lolNue. Byakuren is very hard to hit in her first spell. WHY THE HELL ARE SO MANY UFO SPELLS SO FREAKING HARD TO HIT??? Star Maelstorm is also very evil; must bombskip. Last non-spell is evil too, since she comes to the bottom of the screen to punch you; must bombskip. Devil's Recitation is surprisingly quite easy. I've only faced it once, but it seems much easier than Shinki's version. But of course, since I was playing, I ended up getting hit by an almost horizontal arrowhead wall ceiling. Yes, Fera, please punch me.

Air Scroll has too much HP, and it doesn't help that it's hard to hit her during the horizontal zigzags. She also seems to gain armor during bombs. But eh, the bullet pattern itself seems quite easy, so it should be capturable. Flying Fantastica was actually not too difficult, and it was really fun too. I believe Reimu's smaller hitbox helped immensely here.

Overall, I'd consider Byakuren to be easier than Okuu, actually. That being said, all of Byakuren's spells have a pretty significant chance of screwing up, but well, at least she doesn't have Okuu's gargantuan HP outside of Air Scroll.

As for actual draft purposes, with how much I've been dying, I might just be satisfied at simply reaching Byakuren. 1ccing might be too much for me at this point.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Railgun

[Komeiji Koishi]

I hope I'll.be good enough later. :c

[Scarlet]

I'm not sure what RAYKITTY~ was complaining about.

The fact that you can still die to it while Byakuren is already busy exploding, and the sudden slowdown used to really screw up what I was doing.

It's not as bad now, but I still don't like Byakuren as a boss because almost all of her attacks are either very hard to deathbomb to, or outright useless to bomb to because lolArmor.

[Djeets]

Congrats on beating the cruel namusan senpai~~

Now 1cc this game!! *Evil smile*

[Kriemhild]

I didn't beat her, Puku-chan... btw did you actually 1cc UFO? Or is that the only one you haven't 1cc'd?

[Djeets]

Ah good luck then~

I did 1 CC UFO, after all, I ended up screaming till my neighbors can hear it when I first 1 CC UFO :3

[Komeiji Koishi]

Uguu, I.hope I.do good.

[Kriemhild]

Picking ReimuA was a horrible idea. I'm reaching the ten-second timer countdown far too often now. I'm also having a very hard time balancing between staying alive and collecting UFOs; greed deaths are still very frequent.

I'm also unsure of whether I should go green or red, since both of them have their own unique benefits.

[Djeets]

Green can be quick life savers since in certain time you can get two bombs at once

My suggestion, once you reached 5 live, stop focusing on life and focus at bombs, they provide better survival than a single life lost due to no bomb left

[Kriemhild]

Which shot type did you 1cc with, btw? I want to get an idea of how high my chances are with ReimuA. Fera's 1cc was a supernatural event that was driven by his motivation to prove himself to Shinki's disciple, so it doesn't help me much.

Also, I have a hard time reaching 5 lives because the majority of my deaths are in Stages 2-3.

[Fera]

I'm pretty sure all I wanted to do was 1cc all the games that didn't have "Phantasmagoria" or "Responsive" in their names, and UFO happened to be the easiest next in line. There was no supernatural event. :V

That said, I should 1cc SoEW after this draft is done.

[Kriemhild]

I'm pretty sure all I wanted to do was 1cc all the games that didn't have "Phantasmagoria" or "Responsive" in their names, and UFO happened to be the easiest next in line. There was no supernatural event. :V

That said, I should 1cc SoEW after this draft is done.

This is implying that you find UFO easier than SoEW. Yes, there is definitely some supernatural forces governed by your motivation to prove yourself to Shinki's disciple that allowed you to 1cc UFO.

[Fera]

SoEW has no shift focus, I can't do my sick xXx MLG 720 Noscope Doritos xXx dodging without focus man

On a serious note, shift focus is an important part of my play

I don't really find SoEW objectively harder than UFO, but I had much more experience with UFO since way before I played SoEW, thus making it easier

Besides, UFO is more fun in terms of having that UFO collecting sidequest in addition to clearing the game, it's like a minigame in itself

[Djeets]

SoeW? .___.

Never heard of it

[Komeiji Koishi]

Story of Eastern Wonderland, one of the pc98 games.

[Scarlet]

Picking ReimuA was a horrible idea. I'm reaching the ten-second timer countdown far too often now. I'm also having a very hard time balancing between staying alive and collecting UFOs; greed deaths are still very frequent.

If collecting an UFO token would be too dangerous, wait a bit. They stay on-screen for quite a while, so you may be able to collect it a bit later. And even if you don't, letting a single UFO token (possibly not even of the color you need for the next summon) go of-screen isn't as bad as letting an actual UFO get away.

That said, don't let actual UFOs get away. Bomb if you must. Letting a red/green/rainbow UFO escape is pretty much equivalent to losing a life in terms of resources lost!

Also, if there really are a lot of UFO tokens on-screen that you just cannot collect, likewise consider bombing.

I'm also unsure of whether I should go green or red, since both of them have their own unique benefits.

Let's make a comparison with the assumption that you never destroy an UFO before it drops its saturation bonus (if you do, green UFOs are terribly inefficient) and never die with any bombs left.

Destroying 6 completely saturated UFOs of the same color would give you:

- Red UFOs: 12 life pieces in total, which makes 3 extra lives -> 6 bombs. However, dying gives you invincibility as well, so you are allowed 9 more mistakes in total (but lose Power for each third, a significant drawback during boss battles).

- Green UFOs: 8 bombs in total at no Power cost.

Your call. However, Power in this game can actually be a serious issue during boss battles if you die multiple times, as bosses in this game don't drop a lot of Power after their spellcards and most shot types are terribly weak at 1 or 2 Power.

[Kriemhild]

SoEW has no shift focus, I can't do my sick xXx MLG 720 Noscope Doritos xXx dodging without focus man

On a serious note, shift focus is an important part of my play

I don't really find SoEW objectively harder than UFO, but I had much more experience with UFO since way before I played SoEW, thus making it easier

SoEW doesn't have much micrododging, so the lack of shift focus isn't a serious issue. Mima's final spell has a wave that is quite tight, but the game should be almost over by then.

Besides, UFO is more fun in terms of having that UFO collecting sidequest in addition to clearing the game, it's like a minigame in itself

Considering how I keep dying to greed, I'd say that the presence of UFOs is a big part of why this game is so freaking difficult. It's not fun when it induces high levels of despair.

Story of Eastern Wonderland, one of the pc98 games.

Which is also my second favorite Touhou game, after PoFV.

If collecting an UFO token would be too dangerous, wait a bit. They stay on-screen for quite a while, so you may be able to collect it a bit later. And even if you don't, letting a single UFO token (possibly not even of the color you need for the next summon) go of-screen isn't as bad as letting an actual UFO get away.

A lot of stages don't give you time to actually collect UFOs though. You have to collect them when everything is all heated up and unless you memorize the stages beforehand (which I probably should do), you can't really be sure that you'll ever have a safer opportunity than right now.

Changing colors at the last moment is extremely frustrating too, especially if I had to put myself in danger and dodge through intense bullet waves just to get that UFO...

That said, don't let actual UFOs get away. Bomb if you must. Letting a red/green/rainbow UFO escape is pretty much equivalent to losing a life in terms of resources lost!

Also, if there really are a lot of UFO tokens on-screen that you just cannot collect, likewise consider bombing.

That might apply to other shot types but ReimuA gets quite slow during bombs >_>

But don't worry, I've rarely (but not never) actually allowed a UFO to escape. I try to damage the UFO a bit before I feed it. If things look bad, I just destroy the UFO early and lose the saturation bonus.

Let's make a comparison with the assumption that you never destroy an UFO before it drops its saturation bonus (if you do, green UFOs are terribly inefficient) and never die with any bombs left.

Um, yeah, about that last part...

Destroying 6 completely saturated UFOs of the same color would give you:

- Red UFOs: 12 life pieces in total, which makes 3 extra lives -> 6 bombs. However, dying gives you invincibility as well, so you are allowed 9 more mistakes in total (but lose Power for each third, a significant drawback during boss battles).

- Green UFOs: 8 bombs in total at no Power cost.

Your call. However, Power in this game can actually be a serious issue during boss battles if you die multiple times, as bosses in this game don't drop a lot of Power after their spellcards and most shot types are terribly weak at 1 or 2 Power.

That's probably what I hate the most about this game. Losing 0.93 Power upon death. Sure, stages are overflowing with Power, but Shou certainly isn't. But then again, that's just Shou.

Another advantage of red over green is that you'll more often fall into situations with 0 complete bombs, thus forcing you to actually put effort into surviving whatever hell you're dealing with. On the other hand, having bombs remaining makes you more complacent (since you have a bomb that can save you if things go bad), trigger-happy in the bombing sense, and it may even encourage you to bomb-skip stuff without even attempting them seriously *cough*Vajra*cough*. Entering Sinker Ghost with 0 bombs lets you preserve more resource than entering Sinker Ghost with loads of bombs. It might just be me though.

[Scarlet]

A lot of stages don't give you time to actually collect UFOs though. You have to collect them when everything is all heated up and unless you memorize the stages beforehand (which I probably should do), you can't really be sure that you'll ever have a safer opportunity than right now.

Most stages do have good opportunities to collect UFOs where not much (but not nothing) is going on enemy-wise. Also note that while UFO tokens don't go quite to the bottom of the screen, they do go pretty close, so you can just let them come towards you most of the time. Rainbow tokens are a bit more of an issue, but again, you do usually get a good opportunity to grab them at some point.

Memorization definitely helps, though.

Changing colors at the last moment is extremely frustrating too, especially if I had to put myself in danger and dodge through intense bullet waves just to get that UFO...

Yeah. However, whenever you do end up picking up the wrong color token, try to suppress what is most likely your first instinct and don't try to summon the "correct" UFO by collecting more tokens of the previous color. Summon a rainbow UFO instead. That way you can quickly recover towards the color you were actually going for (as rainbow UFOs drop two rainbow tokens) and still receive some kind of bonus, whereas just collecting the previous color again would simply completely waste a summon and additionally force you to build your tokens back up from scratch.

That might apply to other shot types but ReimuA gets quite slow during bombs >_>

That doesn't matter. Bombing will still destroy the UFO / clear the screen of bullets to give you a chance to collect the tokens.

Um, yeah, about that last part...

I know. :D"

That's probably what I hate the most about this game. Losing 0.93 Power upon death. Sure, stages are overflowing with Power, but Shou certainly isn't. But then again, that's just Shou.

Yeah. Pretty much the only shot type that doesn't completely suck at 2 Power is Marisa A (lasers, yo), and even she crumbles if she ever drops down to 1.

Another advantage of red over green is that you'll more often fall into situations with 0 complete bombs, thus forcing you to actually put effort into surviving whatever hell you're dealing with. On the other hand, having bombs remaining makes you more complacent (since you have a bomb that can save you if things go bad), trigger-happy in the bombing sense, and it may even encourage you to bomb-skip stuff without even attempting them seriously *cough*Vajra*cough*. Entering Sinker Ghost with 0 bombs lets you preserve more resource than entering Sinker Ghost with loads of bombs. It might just be me though.

Very true, although being good at deathbombing makes this a bit less of an issue.

[Komeiji Koishi]

I would do an attempt of SA but I feel tired ughhhh

[Kriemhild]

I've just captured Sinker Ghost for the first time in my life. This is all I need from UFO...

Also, entering Fantastica with 0 bombs makes me do significantly more damage before I die than when I enter Fantastica with at least one bomb. I'm wondering if I should enforce a no-bomb-on-Fantastica rule on myself.

[Scarlet]

I would do an attempt of SA but I feel tired ughhhh

Feel free to take a little break, but do keep trying! You still have a couple of days left.

[Djeets]

Fantastica needs experience and calm decision

You should be fine till the red cards starts appearing,, abd speaking for bombs, its natural, people tend to be more skillful wheen they're more desperate