Delphi Sage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Title. Seriously, the rules are confusing enough with Briggid and Ishtar, and are compounded further with bad foresight like Scorpio's lack of Ulir, or Ishtor and Ishtar's lack of Fala. They did not have to make Mananan inexplicably have two kids with Major Odo and a third with only minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zasplach Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It is indeed confusing and somewhat nonsensical. If you read Kaga's notes about holy blood, he says that there aren't any hard and fast rules about who inherits it or why. But to answer your question, the reason people say that Galzus and Mareeta have major holy blood is because of the marks of Odo on their backs that several enemies talk about when referencing the two. Kaga's notes mention, if I remember correctly, that only those with major holy blood got the markings on their bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmola Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It is indeed confusing and somewhat nonsensical. If you read Kaga's notes about holy blood, he says that there aren't any hard and fast rules about who inherits it or why. But to answer your question, the reason people say that Galzus and Mareeta have major holy blood is because of the marks of Odo on their backs that several enemies talk about when referencing the two. Kaga's notes mention, if I remember correctly, that only those with major holy blood got the markings on their bodies. Also, cyas states that he can see the markings that mean that he can wield falaflame on his body, which seems to imply that markings only appear if you can wield a holy weapon (ie, major holy blood). That, being said, people seem to take the family tree on this website as gospel truth despite the fact that the page it is on says that asumptions were made regarding the holy blood of everyone whose holy blood was not known for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 What's confusing about Briggid? Also, holy blood isn't always passed down. Ishtar and Ishtor lacking minor Fala is not necessarily an oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) holy blood will be inherited to desdent of the crusader thus it isnt unlikely that 2 people may have holy bloods for example Holyn is a distant cousin of ayra yet he has minor Odo Galzus Marking Prove that he has holy blood usually the elder child will inherit the major holy blood (exeption being corpul) Lewyn!Arthur and teeny Ayras Older Brother and Ayra Ishtar and Ishtore (Both should inherit minor fala blood doe but mabye this is because of hildas magicly changeing holy blood) Cyas and Yurius (I wish i could had used cyas in FE4 same with felgus) Canon!Ced and Fee Faval and patty Johan Johalva and Danan Althena and Leif Sigurd (Although he is god in the shape of a man) and Ethilin Aless and Gen 1 Hoebag (Lachesis) And in the case of twins Yuria got major heim minor loptyr Yurius got minor heim major loptyr Felgus inherits major Beo blood :^) the power of great haircuts and Shanan>Mareeta Shanan has actual defence the infinite power of great hair while mareeta has messy hair BRIGGID NEEDS TO USE GODAMN BOWS IN FE5 Edited February 20, 2015 by TTPK_Tal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I don't see anything weird about both children of someone having major holy blood. Like, you can even do that in FE4. If you pair Claude and Sylvia, both Leen and Corpul will have major holy blood. Yuria got major heim minor loptyr Yurius got minor heim major loptyr Yulia has major Heim minor Fala, and Yurius has major Loptyr minor Fala Yuria doesn't have Loptyr and Yurius doesn't have Heim. Edited February 20, 2015 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) What's confusing about Briggid?Reversed gender inheritance. Also, holy blood isn't always passed down. Ishtar and Ishtor lacking minor Fala is not necessarily an oversight.According to dev notes, Hilda was supposed to be Alvis' sister until they abandoned that idea for some reason. They economized by keeping her inexplicable Minor Fala and making her Ishtar's mother in-story without changing any of the gameplay statistics. I also suppose they economized her Gen 1 sprite to create Leimia. By saying "Holy blood isn't always passed down" without any solid proof, you're tacitly implying a belief that the crew behind FE4 were completely perfect with how they made this game, and that FE5 has no contradictions whatsoever. Edited February 20, 2015 by Delphi Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 But Holy Blood isn't always passed down. Take the royal family of Agustria. Chagall is the heir despite lacking Holy blood and Eldigan isn't. This is because somewhere in their ancestry, the heir to the throne didn't inherit any Holy blood while the youngest female sibling inherited major holy blood. She would become Eldigan's ancestor. This votes from Kaga's notes. So no, there are no serious contradictions. Inheritance of Holy blood follows a pattern in general but never is it stated that the pattern is unbreakable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 ...Man, I just give up. Nothing in FE4 really makes sense when taken on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No, it makes sense. You're seeing a pattern and taking it as law instead of what it is, just a pattern that doesn't have to be followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 No, it makes sense. You're seeing a pattern and taking it as law instead of what it is, just a pattern that doesn't have to be followed. I'm trying to reason out why FE4 is what it is. why Chagall has no Holy Blood, why Daccar and Maios have no Holy Blood, why Culuvi has a Loputo Sect sprite, why Fin gets so much screentime, why Chagall's sprite is reused for a filler boss in Chapter 8, why Ovo has an individual sprite, why Hilda has Major Dain in the Final Chapter, why the Berserk Staff and Barrier Sword are only obtainable by killing Sylvia, that sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Inheritance for gameplay is obviously a bit different so the player has some reliability on what they would get from pairings. ...Any reused portraits are probably dev/time issues. Hilda having Major unrelated blood is probably an error. Edited February 20, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmola Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Don't confuse development issues with lore issues. Just because the game is glitchy and contains shortcuts like reused sprites, doesn't mean that there are plotholes. This is especialy true given that the developers explicitly coded in a mechanisem whose sole purpose was for celice to not inherit lopt blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymbalina's Revenge Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm trying to reason out why FE4 is what it is. why Chagall has no Holy Blood, why Daccar and Maios have no Holy Blood, why Culuvi has a Loputo Sect sprite, why Fin gets so much screentime, why Chagall's sprite is reused for a filler boss in Chapter 8, why Ovo has an individual sprite, why Hilda has Major Dain in the Final Chapter, why the Berserk Staff and Barrier Sword are only obtainable by killing Sylvia, that sort of thing. A lot of the plot-related stuff is actually covered in interviews that the dev team published in the player's guide and the Treasure artbook. Some of them are linked on this site under the designers' notes section. They actually put a lot of thought of it-- possibly TOO much since what they said changed and evolved over time, especially by the time FE5 rolls around. The answers are definitely not perfect and consistent but there are a ton of answers. Anyway, holy blood inheritance has no rules. The youngest kid could get it, the oldest kid could get it, and in the case of King Mananan of Isaach two kids got it and Ayra didn't. The Treasure artbook actually does go into why Finn gets so much screentime: they wanted a character who was a ordinary human (not descended from any of the Crusaders) to be caught up in the holy war and see the whole thing start to finish. A witness to history, basically, and sort of a stand-in for all the other regular people of Jugdral who got their lives screwed up by these god-children running around wreaking havoc. Can't help you on the loltastic reused sprites, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Don't confuse development issues with lore issues. Just because the game is glitchy and contains shortcuts like reused sprites, doesn't mean that there are plotholes. This is especialy true given that the developers explicitly coded in a mechanisem whose sole purpose was for celice to not inherit lopt blood. Why would Celice necessarily inherit Lopt anyway? His father and mother both have major holy blood that could simply have more "priority" than Deidre's minor Lopt. Where's the need for an additional mechanism to cover that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) A lot of the plot-related stuff is actually covered in interviews that the dev team published in the player's guide and the Treasure artbook. Maybe, but dev notes written in an artbook published after the game's release can always be retroactive attempts to fill in plot holes. I'm reminded of comic books with how retcon-happy FE5 got. holy blood inheritance has no rules.I'd like to call it "a dumb copout", but then I'd just get dubbed a Debbie Downer for not settling for an answer. But I will say that I prefer stories whose magic has consistent behaviors and limited utility to those who use it as sporadic plot convtrivance. Heck, I like how Fire Emblem just limits its use of free magic to throwing fireballs at people.Okay, we have our answer, guess it's safe to close this topic. Edited February 20, 2015 by Delphi Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartek Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Why would Celice necessarily inherit Lopt anyway? His father and mother both have major holy blood that could simply have more "priority" than Deidre's minor Lopt. Where's the need for an additional mechanism to cover that? Because, gameplay-wise, children will inherit every holy blood their parents had, even if it means having 13 holy blood at the end. Celice would then have minor lopt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Because, gameplay-wise, children will inherit every holy blood their parents had, even if it means having 13 holy blood at the end. Celice would then have minor lopt. If that were the case then Julia would have minor Fala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartek Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Not only does Julia have minor Fala (it's major Lopt that she lack), but she is a complety fixed character unlike Seliph. Edited February 21, 2015 by Sartek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Sorry, I meant to say she lacks Lopt, not Fala. Julius also lacks Narga even though he should inherit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weso12 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I'm trying to reason out why FE4 is what it is. why Chagall has no Holy Blood, why Daccar and Maios have no Holy Blood, why Culuvi has a Loputo Sect sprite, why Fin gets so much screentime, why Chagall's sprite is reused for a filler boss in Chapter 8, why Ovo has an individual sprite, why Hilda has Major Dain in the Final Chapter, why the Berserk Staff and Barrier Sword are only obtainable by killing Sylvia, that sort of thing. I always thought that Lewyn (I'm never gonna get used that spelling) got major Sety blood from his mom, nothing in the game contradicts that, in fact Daccar and Maios not have Sety blood supports that and the line levin says when getting Holsety from his mom Actually we might be able to solve this, someone look at original japanese text of this line when Levin gets holsety: "So this is our family's Book of Holsety!", because the way it's worded in the translations seems be using inclusive first person plural (as in both him and his mom), exclusive first person plural (as him and others but not including his mom), doesn't really make sense here as his father or his father's family isn't mentioned in this conversation at all, though it could just be translation wonkiness which is why I wanna see what the original japanese text said EDIT: While stumbling through PegasusKnight's FE4 script and using google translate to find the particular line here is the orginal japnesse line were levin reffers holsety and his family: "これが・・・ わが王家に伝わるフォルセティ・・・ ああっ、この力は・・・この暖かさは・・・" Also about the Berserk Staff and Barrier Sword, the game designers seemed to want make not pairing sylvia the best option (Note how all her predestined pairings are kind of discouraged: Lewyn, is infinitely better off his two of his other option, Claude is strongly implied to be her brother (read their talk conversation in chapter 4, and remember that sylvia has unexplained minor Blaggi that otherwise doesn't make sense, and honestly try to imagine the designers/writers intending any other interpretation of that conversation), and pairing her with Alec makes no sense stat wise what so ever), Corple being an easily missable Level 1 priest that 2/3rds of the way through the game was meant to be a middle finger to anyone who paired Slyvia and Levin (keep in mind that I they expected people to play not knowing anything about the children characters, which is why they generally made the easy pairings at least somewhat optimal), the fact that Laylea and Sharlow have optimal skills wasn't an accident either (Though I think they under estimated the leg ring and knight ring though) Edited February 22, 2015 by weso12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zasplach Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 ^ I don't see the logic to the first half of that argument, I dislike using substitutes out of principle, but they could very well be better, so I won't address that. Think about it like this, Fury explicitly tells Levin/Lewyn in chapter three that the rule of Silesia has always had Sety blood, thus why would the death of Levin's father, who if he doesn't possess major holy isn't king cause such unrest. Here is the quote from chapter two: Levin:If I go back, I have to succumb to the will of my late father and succeed the throne.But my uncles would never have it. One slip up and there'd be mutiny, like there is here.You know who suffers then? The people. Give the throne to somebody who can handle that.I like the freedom I have now. I've no use for the crown.Give it to one of my uncles.Fury:You know that Silesian royalty claims direct lineage with the Wind God Holsety.That means you are the only one capable of succession.Only you can preserve the Silesian lineage. And the people wish it of you as well. Levin, the queen was in tears when I left. Please... Sniff... just come back with me. http://old.serenesforest.net/fe4/script_02.html Think of it like this, if Queen Rahnah was the one possessing major holy blood, she would very likely be the queen, her husband's death wouldn't be that significant. Unlike Grandbell, Silesia seems like a progressive enough country to have a female as their 'king'. Leastwise many significant Silesians seem to be female, Fury, Mahnya, and Pamela to name a few. And a second point, if Levin's father wasn't the true ruling force, then why would his brothers have any claim on the throne and why would they be such significant nobles in the country. It just seems implausible that a non-ruling king's brothers would be that much of a force in a nation. I find it much more plausible that due to their classes, baron, which already possesses an 'A' rank in win, developers just didn't put that high of a value on giving them minor Sety holy blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weso12 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) ^ I don't see the logic to the first half of that argument, I dislike using substitutes out of principle, but they could very well be better, so I won't address that. Think about it like this, Fury explicitly tells Levin/Lewyn in chapter three that the rule of Silesia has always had Sety blood, thus why would the death of Levin's father, who if he doesn't possess major holy isn't king cause such unrest. Here is the quote from chapter two: Levin: If I go back, I have to succumb to the will of my late father and succeed the throne. But my uncles would never have it. One slip up and there'd be mutiny, like there is here. You know who suffers then? The people. Give the throne to somebody who can handle that. I like the freedom I have now. I've no use for the crown. Give it to one of my uncles. Fury: You know that Silesian royalty claims direct lineage with the Wind God Holsety. That means you are the only one capable of succession. Only you can preserve the Silesian lineage. And the people wish it of you as well. Levin, the queen was in tears when I left. Please... Sniff... just come back with me. http://old.serenesforest.net/fe4/script_02.html Think of it like this, if Queen Rahnah was the one possessing major holy blood, she would very likely be the queen, her husband's death wouldn't be that significant. Unlike Grandbell, Silesia seems like a progressive enough country to have a female as their 'king'. Leastwise many significant Silesians seem to be female, Fury, Mahnya, and Pamela to name a few. And a second point, if Levin's father wasn't the true ruling force, then why would his brothers have any claim on the throne and why would they be such significant nobles in the country. It just seems implausible that a non-ruling king's brothers would be that much of a force in a nation. I find it much more plausible that due to their classes, baron, which already possesses an 'A' rank in win, developers just didn't put that high of a value on giving them minor Sety holy blood. I didn't realize that they directly said that the ruling house was directly related to Sety blood, sorry I was wrong about that theory, it's just a weird assumption I made because of Dakkar and Maios lack of holy blood (it's the only case where the child of someone with major holy blood doesn't have any holy blood), But now that I think about the reason Dakker and Maios don't have minor Sety probably isn't because they didn't think they needed it (after all they game Andrei his minor Ulir despite being in a class with A Bows), the reason they don't have actually don't have it is probably the same reason Scorpio doesn't have minor Ulir, and maybe the same reason Ishtor and Ishtar don't have minor Fala: the game developers forgot Edited February 22, 2015 by weso12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It has already been shown that characters don't necessarily inherit holy blood. It may not be a mistake that Scorpio doesn't have holy blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I didn't realize that they directly said that the ruling house was directly related to Sety blood, sorry I was wrong about that theory, it's just a weird assumption I made because of Dakkar and Maios lack of holy blood (it's the only case where the child of someone with major holy blood doesn't have any holy blood), But now that I think about the reason Dakker and Maios don't have minor Sety probably isn't because they didn't think they needed it (after all they game Andrei his minor Ulir despite being in a class with A Bows), the reason they don't have actually don't have it is probably the same reason Scorpio doesn't have minor Ulir, and maybe the same reason Ishtor and Ishtar don't have minor Fala: the game developers forgot That's...actually pretty smart. That may even explain Why Chagall has no Holy Blood, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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