Florete Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Skyward Sword has its share of problems for sure, but I thought the silent realms were actually among the highlights of the game... Either way, though, not sure if I've mentioned this before, but Wii U Zelda might be my last Zelda. Basically, if it doesn't impress me, I'm giving up on the series, because I haven't been impressed with a Zelda game since Twilight Princess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Skyward Sword has its share of problems for sure, but I thought the silent realms were actually among the highlights of the game... Either way, though, not sure if I've mentioned this before, but Wii U Zelda might be my last Zelda. Basically, if it doesn't impress me, I'm giving up on the series, because I haven't been impressed with a Zelda game since Twilight Princess. Out of curiosity, what did you think of A Link Between Worlds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Out of curiosity, what did you think of A Link Between Worlds?I thought it felt like a glorified remake of A Link to the Past that was good, but not as good as the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I kind of feel you there, Red Fox. Starting with MM, up until SS came out, I didn't love Zelda as much as I did before either. I didn't like MM. I didn't like TWW. I didn't like PH much either. ST was alright. TP was nice, but not really amazing or anything. OoS, I had the same opinion of. OoA frustrated me. Yeah, I loved FSA and TMC. But they didn't make me love Zelda like ALttP and OoT did. I was loving Mario more because of the Super Mario Galaxy games and such and then I found FE. I was just losing interest in Zelda. But Skyward Sword came and changed all that for me. I loved the game so much, it put Zelda back as my favorite series after FE. I really hope Zelda Wii U can make you play more of it again too! Although these days, I don't love OoT as much as I used to. Maybe I just played it way too much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 But I don't get what Zelda fans' beef is with linearity. I don't think being linear is a bad thing at all. Look at Mario games, they're extremely linear most of the time, yet people adore them. Sine when were Mario games linear? Maybe only the very first ones, but even those had warps that split your path, giving you choices. SMB3 has several small split paths in the worlds that make you not need to do all the levels in order to beat the game. SMW introduced secret exits that developed the world even further. And don't even get me started on SM64, which can be beaten in every way imaginable and the stars can be gotten in various ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Uh, in just about every Mario game, you beat a level to move onto the next and so on. That's linearity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Uh, in just about every Mario game, you beat a level to move onto the next and so on. That's linearity. There's a lot more to linearity than what you're describing. A lot of Mario games are not linear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlipFlopMist Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Uh, in just about every Mario game, you beat a level to move onto the next and so on. That's linearity."In just about every Elder Scrolls game you complete a quest to move onto the next and so on.Linearity." See how your logic is flawed? There's a difference between linearity and progression. But no really, while fairly linear, you're able to choose what stages to go to, and what world's, and even backtrack to 1-4 after you just finished 6-7. And that's just the standard Mario game's, not even considering Galaxy, Sunshine, and 64. An example of a linear game would be Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, and even more extreme than that would be a on rails shooter. Mario game's aren't as free as Skyrim, but sayin that they're completely linear is just wrong. Edited March 30, 2015 by FlipFlopMist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Except a whole quest is entirely different from a single level. In SMB, those bonus pipes are just shortcuts, not different paths. You're just skipping one world, not taking another path or doing them in a different order. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon is a linear game too, not arguing with that. And I didn't say completely linear, I said extremely linear. See how your logic is flawed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's unfortunate how SS gets as much hate as it does at all. Zelda fans have even said that Aonuma should be fired because they disliked the game. Just...wtf.I hate SS, so I don't mind hating on it, but this is kind of ridiculous. The Zelda fandom is really dumb sometimes. Silent Realms is an idea that was pretty good on a top-down 2D Zelda, but a shitty idea on a 3D title. It comes off as hideously cheap, and pointless busywork. Tears of Light thing in TP is similar, but at least you werent completely helpless. People hated that segment of TP too.I didn't mind ToL so much, because I wasn't utterly helpless. I'm not a huge fan of TP, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 An example of a linear game would be Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, and even more extreme than that would be a on rails shooter. The House of the Dead isn't very linear. You can take different paths sometimes. Except a whole quest is entirely different from a single level. In SMB, those bonus pipes are just shortcuts, not different paths. You're just skipping one world, not taking another path or doing them in a different order. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon is a linear game too, not arguing with that. And I didn't say completely linear, I said extremely linear. See how your logic is flawed? What about secret exits in SMW then? That's split paths in the same level. That's not linear. Not to mention the whole world has multiple unlockable paths. Biggest example: Vanilla Dome. You can take the secret exit in Vanilla Dome 1 and go through a path that lets you skip castle #3, but leads you to a fortress instead. And Forest of Illusion, Chocolate Island are full of different paths and shortcuts. SM64 is one of the least linear Mario games. The only mandatory levels in that game, glitches notwithstanding, are the Bowser levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Except a whole quest is entirely different from a single level. In SMB, those bonus pipes are just shortcuts, not different paths. You're just skipping one world, not taking another path or doing them in a different order. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon is a linear game too, not arguing with that. And I didn't say completely linear, I said extremely linear. See how your logic is flawed? A shorter path IS a different path. Granted, it's not a huge level of freedom, but it changes things enough so that Mario games aren't extremely linear. Besides, the "warp pipes with shortcuts only" argument only applies to SMB and both versions of SMB2. The Mario series has given you choice of paths since SMB3 (even if there it wasn't more than "choose this or this other level"). Super Mario World was probably the first Mario to give you varied choices between routes, as the shortcuts you take still require you to play different levels. It also allows you to go back and replay levels due to secret exits. Then the 3D Marios (notably 64 and Sunshine) allow you to play the levels in almost any order you want, outside of a few "event" levels like the very first star or the Bowser levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Then the 3D Marios (notably 64 and Sunshine) allow you to play the levels in almost any order you want, outside of a few "event" levels like the very first star or the Bowser levels. Actually I think in SM64 you don't have to go to Bob-omb's Battlefield at the beginning, nor fight King Bob-omb to get your first star in Bob-omb's Battlefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Actually I think in SM64 you don't have to go to Bob-omb's Battlefield at the beginning, nor fight King Bob-omb to get your first star in Bob-omb's Battlefield. You don't have to fight the king but you have to go Bob-omb's Battlefield first. Every other door is locked, even if just a single star is required. The room with the Boos is technically open but the Boos themselves won't show up before you get 15 stars. Edited March 30, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You don't have to fight the king but you have to go Bob-omb's Battlefield first. Every other door is locked, even if just a single star is required. The room with the Boos is technically open but the Boos themselves won't show up before you get 15 stars. Even the Princess' Secret Slide? My memory is a bit faint, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Even the Princess' Secret Slide? My memory is a bit faint, though. Yeah, Princess' Secret Slide is locked behind a 1-Star Door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Even the Princess' Secret Slide? My memory is a bit faint, though. Unless there is a change between the Pal and NTSC versions (or a change in the DS version) that I am not aware of, that one requires one star, just like the Woomp Fortress. You get 3 stars, the Ice level and the Bay level open up. You get 8 stars, you can access Bowser's first stage. You get 10 stars and you can go to the Red Switch palace. 15 stars make the Boos show up. I think everything else needs at least the first key. Edited March 30, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Another mandatory star is the first one in Dire Dire Docks, which opens up the second Bowser level. That along with one star at B-OB plus beating the three Bowser levels is the only stuff that's absolutely required to beat the game. You still need 70 stars, but you can get them in any order or from any level you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlipFlopMist Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The House of the Dead isn't very linear.Most rail shooters are though. Except a whole quest is entirely different from a single level. In SMB, those bonus pipes are just shortcuts, not different paths. You're just skipping one world, not taking another path or doing them in a different order. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon is a linear game too, not arguing with that. And I didn't say completely linear, I said extremely linear. See how your logic is flawed? It may be different but the whole point of using a quest in comparison to a level was because how you were stating they were linear, your arguement could easily be applied to literally anything else and it wouldn't be any less wrong. Progression =/= Lineaity.Except they aren't always just shortcuts, there are a good number that give different paths for you to take on the world map-yeah most are there to skip levels but a fair amount let you take different paths and/or play on secret levels. They are not extremely linear, they are somewhat linear(with the other Mario games most certainly not), but saying completely or extremely is a bit of a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 A shorter path IS a different path. Granted, it's not a huge level of freedom, but it changes things enough so that Mario games aren't extremely linear. Besides, the "warp pipes with shortcuts only" argument only applies to SMB and both versions of SMB2. The Mario series has given you choice of paths since SMB3 (even if there it wasn't more than "choose this or this other level"). Super Mario World was probably the first Mario to give you varied choices between routes, as the shortcuts you take still require you to play different levels. It also allows you to go back and replay levels due to secret exits. Then the 3D Marios (notably 64 and Sunshine) allow you to play the levels in almost any order you want, outside of a few "event" levels like the very first star or the Bowser levels. Yeah, but not much choice. Yes, SMW is one of the less linear Mario games, I agree with that. But okay, maybe Mario games aren't as linear as I thought, but I still think they have some degree of linearity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I must be the black sheep here because I've always thought that the Zelda games have been one of the few series out there thats consistently been pretty exceptional. No matter what game it was I always found something to enjoy and felt that Nintendo was trying to one up the one that came out before it. I don't think I've yet to be disappointed by a Zelda game. Again just one opinion of many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I must be the black sheep here because I've always thought that the Zelda games have been one of the few series out there thats consistently been pretty exceptional. No matter what game it was I always found something to enjoy and felt that Nintendo was trying to one up the one that came out before it. I don't think I've yet to be disappointed by a Zelda game. Again just one opinion of many. Zelda has a LOUD fanbase. A majority who believes their opinions are fact. I have no problem if you dislike a game, but if you say it's shit without good reason, then we have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Yeah, Zelda's fanbase gets as bad as Pokemon's sometimes. And Pokemon fans are really idiotic and inconsistent. They complain that the games are the same over and over, but then complain when there's some changes. One complaint I do agree with though, is the constant removal of awesome features like the Underground, trainer customization, Battle Frontier, contests, etc. I get that GameFreak wants every region to have unique features, but sometimes some of these new features really ought to stick around in future gens. In Zelda's case, people complain about the new game and then later love it when the next new game comes out and nitpick about the smallest flaws in a game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteve Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I personally didn't enjoy Skyward Sword, but that's mostly my own fault for sucking at motion controls. I don't think it's a bad game or anything. Hopefully Zelda Wii U is able to be played with a pro controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Aw, I loved the motion controls (took me a little while to get the hang of them though). But yeah, I suppose they're not for everyone. xP I hope Zelda Wii U has the option to be played with either motion controls or a regular controller, so everyone can enjoy it. Edited March 30, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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