Yet Another Attempt At StreetPass

[Vascela]

FeMU - add proc

Cynthia - add proc or mov +1

Laurent- add proc or mov +1 or acrobat

Input?

[Knusperkeks]

It's useless trying to talk to this guy, I'm doing it myself. Changes are in bold font.

High movement:

FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Quick Burn, Luna, Move+1

Inigo!Morgan@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, RFK, Lethality, Miracle

Henry!Cynthia@Falcon Knight

Counter, Lucky7, Luna, Lethality, Miracle

Olivia!Lucina@Falcon Knight

RFK, Hit+20, Aether, Luna, Lethality

Lon'qu!Owain@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Vaike!Gerome@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Medium movement:

Kellam!Laurent@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle

Libra!Yarne@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Gaius!Brady@Paladin

Counter, Lucky7, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle

Domingo!Inigo@Paladin

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Hit+20, Luna

Like this?

[Vascela]

I would rather discuss and have input before constantly changing a list. You don't need to have an extremely negative tone when dealing with this.

For example, I don't know what proc would best suit other units. Maybe there are other skills to value instead of a proc. I know the list is malleable, but I also don't think changes should be made so quickly without thinking too in depth about it.

[Knusperkeks]

If you had posted #72 in place of #52, we would have saved half a day. If you know your numbers are correct, then show them asap and apply corrections.

[Knusperkeks]

I would rather discuss and have input before constantly changing a list. You don't need to have an extremely negative tone when dealing with this.

I'm getting impatient over here because time is needlessly being wasted.

For example, I don't know what proc would best suit other units.

Luna.

I know the list is malleable, but I also don't think changes should be made so quickly without thinking too in depth about it.

You recognized that X-Breaker is not helping us.

You write down what you would exchange them with. You copy&paste the list and apply changes.

You submit the new post. It's really easy and fast and we can talk about the changes in a more lively manner.

If we want to refer to a list, we use the quote function and maybe tell the other person the page, maybe even the post count so they have a rough idea which iteration of the list it is.

How many iterations do you think a car goes through during development? Obviously we are not going to hit the jackpot right away, we have to work for it. For me, posting one or two lines of comments with content which comes down to "x factor in the list is not optimal" doesn't do it.

Maybe there are other skills to value instead of a proc.

Certainly. I applied changes. Do you think it's better? Is it still bad? If yes, what is bad? What would you change, exactly, and why?

[Tactless Tactician]

Well, just for reference, I'll leave this StreetPass video uploaded by shadowofchaos here.

If there were any doubters, here's proof that even an 'optimized' team of LB Einherjar can be readily dismantled, provided the player has enough skill...

With that in mind, it appears that we're at least on the right track with 3rd-Gen!Morgan, Lethality and 'breaker' weapons, as well as the spreading around of Quick Burn and Lucky 7.

I understand that parts of this are irrelevant to our 'no-DLC' and 'no logbook characters', restrictions but what say you?

[Knusperkeks]

I understand that parts of this are irrelevant to our 'no-DLC' and 'no logbook characters', restrictions but what say you?

I do not see how we can improve anything on the current setup from analyzing the video in question. Simple math proves the fact that breakers will be useless (against super Morgan) if all one aims at is to increase avoid.

We're already spamming Lucky7, Lethality and RFK, same as the Chinese person.

[Tactless Tactician]

I do not see how we can improve anything on the current setup from analyzing the video in question. Simple math proves the fact that breakers will be useless (against super Morgan) if all one aims at is to increase avoid.

We're already spamming Lucky7, Lethality and RFK, same as the Chinese person.

The video was meant to prove the following points (regardless of how obvious they may seem):

1. Any and all StreetPass teams can be beaten. This has long been established; I'm just stating a generally agreed-upon premise.

2. Lethality-spam mixed with Lucky 7 and RK (where applicable) seems to provide the greatest artificial difficulty strictly based on the RNG. Again, this has already been established.

3. Sacrificing the use of some breakers for additional movement and Miracle/Counter may be useful, adding one extra layer to play around, if not as a surprise factor.

With regards to the team in general, I'd like to open for discussion whether HP+5 is critical to the employment of the Counter-Bomber strategy.

A traditional Counter-Bomber can only deal 79 points of damage in the best-case scenario which is not enough to secure a kill.

HP+5 may put additional pressure on the player to use HP+5 in lieu of a more beneficial skill. Or they could use a Tiki's Tear or Kris's Confect, thus encouraging them to expend extra resources.

The current iteration of the team is as follows:

High movement:

FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Quick Burn, Luna, Move+1

Inigo!Morgan@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, RFK, Lethality, Miracle

Henry!Cynthia@Falcon Knight

Counter, Lucky7, Luna, Lethality, Miracle

Olivia!Lucina@Falcon Knight

RFK, Hit+20, Aether, Luna, Lethality

Lon'qu!Owain@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Vaike!Gerome@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Medium movement:

Kellam!Laurent@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle

Libra!Yarne@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Gaius!Brady@Paladin

Counter, Lucky7, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle

Chrom!Inigo@Paladin

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Hit+20, Luna

How would you feel about adding HP+5 to Miracle/Counter units for those who can also run it, aside from RK!Morgan?

Since Inigo lacks Miracle anyway, it could be more advantageous to run something like Patience, Prescience, or even Pass.

Brady could also be another potential candidate, swapping out Acrobat for HP+5. (Yes, I know this was brought up before...)

[Vascela]

The problem with hp+5 would be the assumption that the enemy doesn't tonic. I don't know if the extra 5 Hp is truly desirable over extra movement.

[Tactless Tactician]

The problem with hp+5 would be the assumption that the enemy doesn't tonic. I don't know if the extra 5 Hp is truly desirable over extra movement.

Forcing a player to use tonics just to beat a StreetPass team would still count as a win in my opinion. But your point still stands.

What if we include just one unit with a Miracle/Counter/HP+5 setup?

It could possibly fly under the radar, and even if that isn't the case, they player may still have to proceed with an added layer of caution.

Feel free to tear apart my case if the reasoning behind it isn't sensible.

[Vascela]

I don't think I can completely disregard that line of thinking. It's just that a 100% counter KO won't happen even with HP+5, so we can take it as face value: 5 more damage on the miracle scenario.

What's more valuable, 5 more damage vs acrobat/mov +1? Is the 5 damage going to be lethal? If so, then it's completely sensible. If you don't think that the +5 Hp from counter will ever secure as many KOs as the latter, then it's probably more clear of a choice on what to run.

[Knusperkeks]

In regards to stating the obvious: If you believe your opponent will use a +5 HP tonic, utilize Acrobat/Movement+1. If not, apply HP+5.

[Tactless Tactician]

I don't think I can completely disregard that line of thinking. It's just that a 100% counter KO won't happen even with HP+5, so we can take it as face value: 5 more damage on the miracle scenario.

What's more valuable, 5 more damage vs acrobat/mov +1? Is the 5 damage going to be lethal? If so, then it's completely sensible. If you don't think that the +5 Hp from counter will ever secure as many KOs as the latter, then it's probably more clear of a choice on what to run.

So it basically comes down to whether +5 damage or +1 movement/acrobat is more valuable...

In regards to stating the obvious: If you believe your opponent will use a +5 HP tonic, utilize Acrobat/Movement+1. If not, apply HP+5.

...coupled with the premise of tonic usage on a player's units.

I personally doubt that most players will use tonics when battling a StreetPass team, though a kit of ten HP+5 tonics can be purchased for a mere 1,500 gold from what I recall.

[Knusperkeks]

Are we done now?

[Tactless Tactician]

Seems that way. Things seem pretty static save for the personal choice of HP+5 versus Acrobat/Mov+1.

Anyone interested in working on a DLC-using iteration of this? Should be as easy as add LB, remove lowest Hit/Avo skill. Maybe add Aggressor for a few particularly high-damage units.

Also, is there any benefit in trying other 3rd-gen Morgans, like Vaike!Gerome!Morgan, or Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan, or does Chrom!Inigo!Morgan seem superior in most cases for RK?

[Knusperkeks]

Seems that way. Things seem pretty static save for the personal choice of HP+5 versus Acrobat/Mov+1.

I agree.

Anyone interested in working on a DLC-using iteration of this? Should be as easy as add LB, remove lowest Hit/Avo skill. Maybe add Aggressor for a few particularly high-damage units.

Inclusion of Aggressor means we want to as many of our units be male as possible, that would change everything.

Also, is there any benefit in trying other 3rd-gen Morgans, like Vaike!Gerome!Morgan, or Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan, or does Chrom!Inigo!Morgan seem superior in most cases for RK?

Depends entirely on stratagem.

[Tactless Tactician]

Inclusion of Aggressor means we want to as many of our units be male as possible, that would change everything.

Not necessarily. The common core of Miracle+Counter+Lethality is the same. Limit Breaker would provide +10 skill and +10 luck, providing +20 Hit/Avoid, effectively superseding Lucky 7 or Quick Burn. Female units can run addition Hit/Avoid skills or proc-stack Luna if applicable. Males can run Aggressor. This way, we can achieve unit variety while keeping the core theme, with as few overall necessary modifications as possible.

For example

[spoiler=Minor Team Revisions]FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Luna, Move+1, LB (removed Quick Burn)

Inigo!Morgan@Griffon Rider

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Lucky 7)

Henry!Cynthia@Falcon Knight

Counter, Luna, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Lucky 7)

Olivia!Lucina@Falcon Knight

RFK, Aether, Luna, Lethality, LB (removed Hit+20)

Lon'qu!Owain@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, Miracle (removed Quick Burn)

Vaike!Gerome@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Quick Burn)

Both Owain and Vaike in particular could benefit from Aggressor.

Medium movement:

Kellam!Laurent@Assassin +boots

Counter, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Lucky 7)

Libra!Yarne@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Quick Burn)

Gaius!Brady@Paladin

Counter, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle, LB (removed Lucky 7)

Chrom!Inigo@Paladin

Counter/Aggressor, RFK, Lethality, Luna, LB (removed Hit+20 for LB, considering swapping Counter for Aggressor)

Depends entirely on stratagem.

If Lethality and/or Miracle/Counter are retained as the primary focal points, Rightful King is useful in boosting the activation rates of Lethality and Miracle both.

At present, it seems to be a superior option. Unless you have any other Morgan sets worth considering?

[Knusperkeks]

It can work as you say. I was entertaining the thought of giving Morgan a sibling, thus enabling another full pallet of classes and mods for a child.

[Tactless Tactician]

It can work as you say. I was entertaining the thought of giving Morgan a sibling, thus enabling another full pallet of classes and mods for a child.

Alright. I haven't ruled anything out completely yet.

I'm assuming that this would be working with a MaMU?

If so, the best bet would be to have a sibling that would not get either Counter or Miracle innately, for a semi-optimal distribution.

For daughters, this would include: Severa, Nah, Kjelle, and Noire. Out of these, Noire has the worst luck mod, making her less suitable for this operation.

For sons, this would include... none of them, as all of the second-gen males are guaranteed to get one of either Miracle or Counter, if not both.

If I still had to offer one up, I'd recommend Brady as the only skills worth using that he has by default are Miracle and Luna, but has an excellent Luck mod.

Laurent and Yarne are also considerations due to a lack of good Miracle fathers (both Libra and Kellam have negative Luck modifiers, with the latter also having negative speed).

[Knusperkeks]

Since we're tryharding to win now, with DLC skills, what do think of trying to come up with a setup which doesn't rely on Lethality at all? I'd like real people to actually try fighting our team without instantly dismissing it after seeing Lethality^10 on it.

I don't mind either way.

[Tactless Tactician]

Since we're tryharding to win now, with DLC skills, what do think of trying to come up with a setup which doesn't rely on Lethality at all? I'd like real people to actually try fighting our team without instantly dismissing it after seeing Lethality^10 on it.

I don't mind either way.

Sounds fair. I approve of the challenge at the very least.

Is the Miracle+Counter strat still acceptable, or should that be done away with as well?

[Knusperkeks]

Sounds fair. I approve of the challenge at the very least.

Is the Miracle+Counter strat still acceptable, or should that be done away with as well?

Depends entirely on you and everyone else who wants to participate in the thread.

My intention is to create something new and cool, which is fun to play against but at the same time really versatile and punishing if left unchecked.

I realize that's about 4 points too much, but trying won't hurt, and I don't want this thread to die just like this after you went to the trouble of putting so much effort into it.

[Tactless Tactician]

My intention is to create something new and cool

That's probably going to be a bit of a challenge. Most unit/skill combinations have been analyzed thoroughly by this point.

Perhaps, we could attempt to go for a thematic team? If so, I'd definitely be willing to take remove the restriction against logbook MUs. Just as long as they don't have the same exact spread or spreads five or ten times over.

which is fun to play against

Again, a themed team might work in this regard. Variety with procs is also encouraged. If Lethality is used, it should probably be kept to a bare minimum.

but at the same time really versatile and punishing if left unchecked.

While high-movement classes were a staple of the last part of the thread, how about we go for a little more class diversity this time around?

Possibly something like Vaike!Nah for a somewhat tanky Manakete with Luna and Lethality. Or maybe a MU x Nowi for two incredibly versatile Manakete offspring?

Switching it up to include one or two more Hero-class units, or possibly a General or two in the absence of Manaketes might work well.

I'm of course open to suggestions.

[Knusperkeks]

I'm just thinking a bit:

Reading #98 makes me think about creating a team which has synergies among it's units like a squad instead of everyone recklessly suiciding into the enemy without regards to their own life with the intention to kill. They don't have to necessarily work as a 10 man group, but maybe two groups of 5, or something similar.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to use rallies. If we can manage to keep our units stay together, then the effect of rallies is more pronounced. Even a good player will have trouble fighting fully rallied stat capped units with limit breaker.

With regards to that, I do not know how the AI behaves in such cases. Will it decide that it's beneficial to stick together if there is an aura like Demoiselle in place?

In secret Apotheosis, going for a tank lineup is not doable because of Luna+. Players do not possess Luna+. Does this mean tanks are viable in streetpass? Not really, since 100% dual strike slices them apart. But we do not have a chance to beat a person who has enough skill to utilize 100% dual strike to begin with.

I'm also feeling a bit sad about the legendary weapons which weren't utilized at all. Ragnell is an awesome weapon. Maybe it has a niche use?

Why can't generals use swords?? Looks like Manaketes and Heros are the best tank classes, or am I wrong?

[Tactless Tactician]

I'm just thinking a bit:

Reading #98 makes me think about creating a team which has synergies among it's units like a squad instead of everyone recklessly suiciding into the enemy without regards to their own life with the intention to kill. They don't have to necessarily work as a 10 man group, but maybe two groups of 5, or something similar.

Perhaps two 'waves' as it were, one with a series of 'standard' 6 or 8-movement units (non-fliers), and another with 8 or 10 movement units? Boots would definitely be useful in this regard.

Each 'wave' could have their own set of aura skills, perhaps a unit with Charm like Lucina (maybe Chrom does have a use?), or Anathema, increasing the prevalence of the Dark Mage class.

Speaking of Dark Mages, perhaps Vengeance might be useful on a unit or two, provided said unit has Miracle...

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to use rallies. If we can manage to keep our units stay together, then the effect of rallies is more pronounced. Even a good player will have trouble fighting fully rallied stat capped units with limit breaker.

With regards to that, I do not know how the AI behaves in such cases. Will it decide that it's beneficial to stick together if there is an aura like Demoiselle in place?

I'd say Aura skills would be better than rallies, because while the reward is lower, it's a lot less cumbersome to set up. A StreetPass rallybot ought to have a weapon, so they attempt to engage the player, but low movement (i.e. General) so they can't actually reach the player, but still be in range to rally their allies.

Meanwhile, a unit or two with 'aura' skills such as Charm, Anathema, and Demoiselle would still have better combat viability, without as much of a sacrifice.

As far as getting them to stick together, the best we can do is manipulate their position by the amount of total movement they possess. I don't think the AI is cognizant of their own 'aura' skills when making a move, though this is strictly conjecture.

And speaking of such skills, would Bond have any value? The 'free' +10 HP every turn is minimal, but could make things a little more interesting for the player to deal with. This would prove detrimental to a Vengeance user, so ideally, they would be in different 'squads'.

In secret Apotheosis, going for a tank lineup is not doable because of Luna+. Players do not possess Luna+. Does this mean tanks are viable in streetpass? Not really, since 100% dual strike slices them apart. But we do not have a chance to beat a person who has enough skill to utilize 100% dual strike to begin with.

I'm also feeling a bit sad about the legendary weapons which weren't utilized at all. Ragnell is an awesome weapon. Maybe it has a niche use?

Why can't generals use swords?? Looks like Manaketes and Heros are the best tank classes, or am I wrong?

Anyone who uses Chrom or Lucina will have enhanced DS potency, meaning that if they're equipped with the Exalted or Parallel Falchion as a support, a General-class unit might have some benefits over the Manakete class. Aside from that, Heros and Manaketes do seem to be the best.