Yet Another Attempt At StreetPass

[Knusperkeks]

Perhaps two 'waves' as it were, one with a series of 'standard' 6 or 8-movement units (non-fliers), and another with 8 or 10 movement units? Boots would definitely be useful in this regard.

Each 'wave' could have their own set of aura skills, perhaps a unit with Charm like Lucina (maybe Chrom does have a use?), or Anathema, increasing the prevalence of the Dark Mage class.

Speaking of Dark Mages, perhaps Vengeance might be useful on a unit or two, provided said unit has Miracle...

This looks to be a good starting point.

I wonder if the AI recognizes Charm, Demoiselle and similar skills as a bonus the same way it sees forts, thrones and wood tiles.

The main point of auras would be to keep the team together. Does Anathema accomplish that? I don't think so. 10 hit is nice to have at least. 10 crit is not worthwhile since all crit will be negated by the enemies' luck.

Charm is +5hit/avoid. Will that really make a difference in the end? I'd use it if it keeps inspires the AI to keep the formation closed, but I don't know if it does.

Maybe Miracle/Vantage/Vengeance is worth a shot?

Chrom might be useful in a mounted class, with Aether/Luna/Aggressor/RFK/<filler>

I'd say Aura skills would be better than rallies, because while the reward is lower, it's a lot less cumbersome to set up. A StreetPass rallybot ought to have a weapon, so they attempt to engage the player, but low movement (i.e. General) so they can't actually reach the player, but still be in range to rally their allies.

Meanwhile, a unit or two with 'aura' skills such as Charm, Anathema, and Demoiselle would still have better combat viability, without as much of a sacrifice.

I wouldn't give a rally unit any weapons. It's purpose is to rally each turn and die if attacked. That is a very obvious weakness.

If it stays in the rear, it won't be able to support the front.

If it stays in the front, it won't be able to support the rear.

Is giving a few other units a second Limit Breaker worth sacrificing 20% of our combat strength for? it might be.

As far as getting them to stick together, the best we can do is manipulate their position by the amount of total movement they possess. I don't think the AI is cognizant of their own 'aura' skills when making a move, though this is strictly conjecture.

And speaking of such skills, would Bond have any value? The 'free' +10 HP every turn is minimal, but could make things a little more interesting for the player to deal with. This would prove detrimental to a Vengeance user, so ideally, they would be in different 'squads'.

Anyone who uses Chrom or Lucina will have enhanced DS potency, meaning that if they're equipped with the Exalted or Parallel Falchion as a support, a General-class unit might have some benefits over the Manakete class. Aside from that, Heros and Manaketes do seem to be the best.

Movement seems to be the only way to gain anything reminiscent of control over the team. It might turn out that half of the 10 movement team spawns together with half of the 6 movement team to turn it into one big mess.

Do we have to make a single squad of 10 which operates with the assumption that is has 2 out of 3 factors at the ready? For example: Bond, Anathema(or other auras), Rally?

Since the AI is stupid, is there even a point in trying to work out specific team comps when all they do is mindlessly rush into the enemy to the best of their abilities?

Overall, I think Hero is the best physical class. A tank unit could have Ragnell, Res+10, LB and two other skills to make use of. Is this hypothetical unit good enough?

Anyone who uses Chrom or Lucina will have enhanced DS potency, meaning that if they're equipped with the Exalted or Parallel Falchion as a support, a General-class unit might have some benefits over the Manakete class. Aside from that, Heros and Manaketes do seem to be the best.

Assuming we deploy a General: How does it fight back? It doesn't have the stat caps to survive 12 fully powered attacks by a single pair of units. It needs to be able to do something while it's taking that damage.

[...]

Is there meaning in trying to fight and win against four pairs of Limit Breaker'd, Rallied, S-Ranked combat pairs operated by superior human intelligence?

Telling the player to fight without pair-up through any means and building on the basis of that might be a path worth considering to take.

Just like in the beginning of this thread, it's necessary to determine the enemy we're optimizing against, otherwise this'll progress nowhere.

[Tactless Tactician]

This looks to be a good starting point.

I wonder if the AI recognizes Charm, Demoiselle and similar skills as a bonus the same way it sees forts, thrones and wood tiles.

The main point of auras would be to keep the team together. Does Anathema accomplish that? I don't think so. 10 hit is nice to have at least. 10 crit is not worthwhile since all crit will be negated by the enemies' luck.

Charm is +5hit/avoid. Will that really make a difference in the end? I'd use it if it keeps inspires the AI to keep the formation closed, but I don't know if it does.

Maybe Miracle/Vantage/Vengeance is worth a shot?

Chrom might be useful in a mounted class, with Aether/Luna/Aggressor/RFK/<filler>

I'm honestly unsure as to how the AI interprets 'aura' skills, therefore Charm doesn't seem to be terribly valuable with Chrom's potential as a StreetPass unit decreasing somewhat because of it.

As for the rest, units like Gerome and Laurent, can inherit Demoiselle whilst missing out only on Dual Support+ as 'standard' inheritance from their mothers.

Units like Brady and Owain can also acquire Demoiselle, but at the cost of missing out on Galeforce.

Also, Henry!Cynthia which is seemingly a go-to pairing in this kind of situation gets the Troubadour class in addition to a possible Miracle/Counter/Vengeance kit. No Vantage though.

A daughter fathered by Donnel or Gregor can inherit Counter, while also gaining access to the Troubadour class. Gregor's Myrmidon class makes him more valuable than Donnel, though.

With regards to MU, a MaMU siring two daughters might be best, for 'optimal' distribution of Miracle/(Counter)/Vantage/Vengeance or Demoiselle.

Toward this end a MaMU pairing with either Cordelia, Sully, or Nowi might be effective. Maribelle due to high resultant luck mods, and since Brady only naturally gets Miracle.

I wouldn't give a rally unit any weapons. It's purpose is to rally each turn and die if attacked. That is a very obvious weakness.

If it stays in the rear, it won't be able to support the front.

If it stays in the front, it won't be able to support the rear.

Is giving a few other units a second Limit Breaker worth sacrificing 20% of our combat strength for? it might be.

Due to a host of variables we can't control, among the first of these being AI positioning which you already partially addressed, a non-MU rallybot could potentially be frontlined, making it even easier-than-normal prey for the player. A MU rallybot would most likely be a FeMU due to access to Rally Bond in addition to Rally Spectrum, Speed, Magic etc.

From my viewpoint, such a tactic is a high-risk/resource endeavor with a medium-value reward at best.

Movement seems to be the only way to gain anything reminiscent of control over the team. It might turn out that half of the 10 movement team spawns together with half of the 6 movement team to turn it into one big mess.

Do we have to make a single squad of 10 which operates with the assumption that is has 2 out of 3 factors at the ready? For example: Bond, Anathema(or other auras), Rally?

Since the AI is stupid, is there even a point in trying to work out specific team comps when all they do is mindlessly rush into the enemy to the best of their abilities?

Overall, I think Hero is the best physical class. A tank unit could have Ragnell, Res+10, LB and two other skills to make use of. Is this hypothetical unit good enough?

In that case, assuming 'equal movement' is all but necessary for 'wave' control, we should attempt to have most of our units be either in 8-movement classes, or be in standard 6-movement classes and with Boots. Also, with regards to AI distribution, won't we have to put 'aura' skills on up to half the team just for potential consistency?

Even though the AI is stupid, I believe this can be mitigated to an extent with the ideas I just mentioned.

And your hypothetical unit sounds 'sturdy', but is Res+10 even all that useful?

At the very least, with a 70-hit Ragnell equipped, it'll need Hit+20 or Lucky 7 to use it effectively.

Among the most accurate of 1-2 physical weapons usable by a Hero would be a forged Orsin's Hatchet which. with a base accuracy of 85% could be forged to have 110 hit.

I don't think it's quite 'good enough', but it certainly is a good starting point.

Assuming we deploy a General: How does it fight back? It doesn't have the stat caps to survive 12 fully powered attacks by a single pair of units. It needs to be able to do something while it's taking that damage.

[...]

Is there meaning in trying to fight and win against four pairs of Limit Breaker'd, Rallied, S-Ranked combat pairs operated by superior human intelligence?

Telling the player to fight without pair-up through any means and building on the basis of that might be a path worth considering to take.

Just like in the beginning of this thread, it's necessary to determine the enemy we're optimizing against, otherwise this'll progress nowhere.

Operating under the assumption that a player would be convinced by an entreaty not to pair-up would provide more maneuverability, but is probably unreliable at best.

I suppose the potential goal is to take out a solitary 'optimal' pair up unit, most likely using second gen units. I think we ran the calcs on both physical and magical pair-ups (though without LB I think) earlier in this topic.

[Knusperkeks]

Two possible scenarios which would be interesting are:

1.) Ten 1v1's, with or without Limit Breaker.

2.) Our team of 10 units versus a single pair by the opponent player which is being deployed with state of art optimization, with or without Limit Breaker.

Which one should we go for?

[Tactless Tactician]

Personally, I'm more inclined toward the latter of those two options.

[Tactless Tactician]

Currently grinding up parent units on my FeMU x Inigor StreetPass file.

As far as Gerome is concerned, should Cherche pass Demoiselle, DS+, or does it not even matter?

With regards to the other team utilizing DLC, I'm considering:

Chrom!Inigo: His role would be as a RK+Luna Aggressor. Lethality is up for debate)

Olivia!Lucina: Her role is a proc-stacker with RK+Aether+Luna. Considering Swordfaire/Lancefaire for her fourth skill

Stahl!Yarne: His role is to focus on pure damage with Axefaire, Aggressor, and Luna. Quick Burn from Panne, or Lucky 7 from his Thief line. Has two less strength than a Vaike!Gerome, but three more skill and speed.

Henry!Cynthia: Could likely reprise her original role as a Miracle+Counter user, with the somewhat-notable considerations of Demoiselle and Anathema.

Ricken!Owain: Has Miracle/Counter/Lethality/Luna and high luck. Could fill a number of roles.

Other considerations:

Vaike/Lon'qu!Severa: The former givers Severa access to Luna as well as +5 strength and +4 skill and speed. The latter trades 3 strength for 2 skill and speed apiece. Virion!Severa could also be used, if both Vaike and Lon'qu are used on other relevant units.

Vaike/Gregor/Frederick!Gerome: The first option allows Gerome to run as an Axefaire Berserker, akin to Stahl!Yarne, but minus Luna. Gregor provides somewhat better stats, and Astra in exchange for Lucky 7. Frederick hurts Gerome's speed, but gives him Luna, and the skill mods to use it with. He lacks the option to go Berserker though.

As far as who to pair MaMU with, I'm most strongly considering either Brady, Laurent, or Nah. The first two have a notably high stat (luck or magic respectively), but have little to offer skill-wise in terms of a StreetPass setting, without resorting to certain (oftentimes 'niche') fathers. Nah has virtually nothing of note for StreetPass, save for possibly Quick Burn, Tomefaire, and a couple breakers. Throwing a pair of manaketes into the mix would certainly be interesting.

Also, I'm half-tempted to attempt a crit-stacking unit just for novelty's sake. While this goes against the plan of using a MaMU, a hypothetical +skill FeMU and a Lon'qu!Yarne result in a Morgan with +10 skill and +7 speed mods. As an Assassin with LB, that comes out to 68 skill, or 34 base crit. A maximally forged 'killer' weapon (+15 Hit/+15 Crit) has 45 innate Crit. But 79 crit isn't going to suffice if you have a unit with LB, S-Ranked with a Great Lord (+9 Luck), one can estimate that the paired-up unit has luck in the mid 60s. Meaning that in all likelihood, the unit has around 10% to 15% crit. In an attempt to compensate for this, Zeal provides a flat-out +5 Crit and Focus provides +10 Crit, provided no allies are within a 3-tile radius. But Wrath, which only works when the unit's HP is half or less, is unlikely to be effective. And Gamble, which adds a flat 10 crit at the expense of 5 Hit, is discouraged, especially if some Hit is foregone to buff the weapon's Crit rate to begin with.

...Nevermind. I guess I'll save my crit-stacking dreams for the maingame, where running a Swordmaster/Assassin with Astra and a forged Killing Edge is strangely satisfying...

Thoughts?

[Knusperkeks]

Let's make up a perfect Morgan to use as an enemy.

Vaike!Gerome!M: 61 str as Berserker

Ricken!Laurent!M: 56 mag as Sage

Lon'qu!Severa!M: 58 skl as Assassin

Lon'qu!Yarne!M: 57 spd as Assassin

Chrom!Brady!Morgan: 54 lck

Kellam!Nah!M:64 def as Manakete

Libra!Brady!M: 52 res as Sorcerer

Super pair-up of awesomeness: +8 flat to all.

Rallies: +10/+14 to all/luck respectively

Limit Breaker: +10 to all.

89 str, 84 mag, 86 skl, 85 spd, 86 lck, 92 def, 80 res

Have fun poking this monstrosity with Astra.

As far as Gerome is concerned, should Cherche pass Demoiselle, DS+, or does it not even matter?

I don't see how having DS+ would impact Gerome's performance in streetpass.

With regards to the other team utilizing DLC, I'm considering:

Chrom!Inigo: His role would be as a RK+Luna Aggressor. Lethality is up for debate)

Olivia!Lucina: Her role is a proc-stacker with RK+Aether+Luna. Considering Swordfaire/Lancefaire for her fourth skill

Stahl!Yarne: His role is to focus on pure damage with Axefaire, Aggressor, and Luna. Quick Burn from Panne, or Lucky 7 from his Thief line. Has two less strength than a Vaike!Gerome, but three more skill and speed.

Henry!Cynthia: Could likely reprise her original role as a Miracle+Counter user, with the somewhat-notable considerations of Demoiselle and Anathema.

Ricken!Owain: Has Miracle/Counter/Lethality/Luna and high luck. Could fill a number of roles.

They're all using weapons with brave effect?

Other considerations:

Vaike/Lon'qu!Severa: The former givers Severa access to Luna as well as +5 strength and +4 skill and speed. The latter trades 3 strength for 2 skill and speed apiece. Virion!Severa could also be used, if both Vaike and Lon'qu are used on other relevant units.

Vaike/Gregor/Frederick!Gerome: The first option allows Gerome to run as an Axefaire Berserker, akin to Stahl!Yarne, but minus Luna. Gregor provides somewhat better stats, and Astra in exchange for Lucky 7. Frederick hurts Gerome's speed, but gives him Luna, and the skill mods to use it with. He lacks the option to go Berserker though.

I'd choose Vaike for Luna on Sevy and Frederick for Gerome for the simple reason that they will deal zero damage if they do not have it.

As far as who to pair MaMU with, I'm most strongly considering either Brady, Laurent, or Nah. The first two have a notably high stat (luck or magic respectively), but have little to offer skill-wise in terms of a StreetPass setting, without resorting to certain (oftentimes 'niche') fathers. Nah has virtually nothing of note for StreetPass, save for possibly Quick Burn, Tomefaire, and a couple breakers. Throwing a pair of manaketes into the mix would certainly be interesting.

I assume Chrom!Brady's argument is RFK Miracle with max luck. Laurent can have high magic. Nah can give a super tank Manakete.

Personally, Brady's and Nah's Morgan are most interesting to me. Which setups are considering?

Also, I'm half-tempted to attempt a crit-stacking unit just for novelty's sake. While this goes against the plan of using a MaMU, a hypothetical +skill FeMU and a Lon'qu!Yarne result in a Morgan with +10 skill and +7 speed mods. As an Assassin with LB, that comes out to 68 skill, or 34 base crit. A maximally forged 'killer' weapon (+15 Hit/+15 Crit) has 45 innate Crit. But 79 crit isn't going to suffice if you have a unit with LB, S-Ranked with a Great Lord (+9 Luck), one can estimate that the paired-up unit has luck in the mid 60s. Meaning that in all likelihood, the unit has around 10% to 15% crit. In an attempt to compensate for this, Zeal provides a flat-out +5 Crit and Focus provides +10 Crit, provided no allies are within a 3-tile radius. But Wrath, which only works when the unit's HP is half or less, is unlikely to be effective. And Gamble, which adds a flat 10 crit at the expense of 5 Hit, is discouraged, especially if some Hit is foregone to buff the weapon's Crit rate to begin with.

...Nevermind. I guess I'll save my crit-stacking dreams for the maingame, where running a Swordmaster/Assassin with Astra and a forged Killing Edge is strangely satisfying...

It's kinda hard to break 86 luck, so i don't think going for crits is the right choice. It's even more inconsistent than Lethality. At least the latter only depends on hitting the enemy, even if it's for zero damage. It's possible to deal zero damage to the enemy even if you do crit, which results in achieving absolutely nothing.

I'd love if this could work out somehow, but don't get your hopes up.

Also, seeing displayed crit in the enemies' combat menu is extremely intimidating for any player, so they'll try to work around that. One needs to be sneaky if one wants to deceive humans.

[Tactless Tactician]

Let's make up a perfect Morgan to use as an enemy.

Vaike!Gerome!M: 61 str as Berserker

Ricken!Laurent!M: 56 mag as Sage

Lon'qu!Severa!M: 58 skl as Assassin

Lon'qu!Yarne!M: 57 spd as Assassin

Chrom!Brady!Morgan: 54 lck

Kellam!Nah!M:64 def as Manakete

Libra!Brady!M: 52 res as Sorcerer

Super pair-up of awesomeness: +8 flat to all.

Rallies: +10/+14 to all/luck respectively

Limit Breaker: +10 to all.

89 str, 84 mag, 86 skl, 85 spd, 86 lck, 92 def, 80 res

Have fun poking this monstrosity with Astra.

Yeah. Halving damage and possibly hitting five times is pointless if the damage is reduced into the single digits or zero altogether.

I don't see how having DS+ would impact Gerome's performance in streetpass.

Eh, this was just for passing DS+ for possible utility in-game for Apo or something. Either way, DS+ usually contributes little.

But the point was that I'm currently working on the FeMU x Inigo / Hit&Avoid-stacking/Miracle+Counter+Lethality file. Not the 'aura'/variety file yet.

They're all using weapons with brave effect?

Mostly. I think that leading with 'Superior' weapons equipped is still a good idea, and there may be a few niche Regalia/legendary weapons such as Ragnell or Innes' Bow that may still be usable.

I'd choose Vaike for Luna on Sevy and Frederick for Gerome for the simple reason that they will deal zero damage if they do not have it.

Sounds logical.

I assume Chrom!Brady's argument is RFK Miracle with max luck. Laurent can have high magic. Nah can give a super tank Manakete.

Personally, Brady's and Nah's Morgan are most interesting to me. Which setups are considering?

Oh, no, that's not what I was getting at, at all. I was actually considering what second-gen units might benefit from having MaMU parentage, for optimal class spreading.

You raise some good points though. I'll be looking into these.

It's kinda hard to break 86 luck, so i don't think going for crits is the right choice. It's even more inconsistent than Lethality. At least the latter only depends on hitting the enemy, even if it's for zero damage. It's possible to deal zero damage to the enemy even if you do crit, which results in achieving absolutely nothing.

I'd love if this could work out somehow, but don't get your hopes up.

Also, seeing displayed crit in the enemies' combat menu is extremely intimidating for any player, so they'll try to work around that. One needs to be sneaky if one wants to deceive humans.

Heh. True, but since being able to display crit is highly unlikely, this avenue should likely just be dropped altogether.

I'll be looking into the aforementioned 3rd-gen Morgans, as well as Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan due to his high skill and speed (not necessarily for crit potential).

It appears that the most-likely 'established' pairings include:

Frederick!Gerome

Henry!Cynthia

Vaike!Severa

Ricken!Owain (see above post)

I'll be looking into Chrom!Brady!Morgan, however I think the 'default' Chrom!Inigo and Olivia!Lucina will be better for this endeavor in contrast to Brady's superior luck.

[Tactless Tactician]

Well, I thought we'd be rolling with a MaMU for this second idea, however, I looked into the 'raw stats' for a potential 3rd-gen Morgan and got the following:

Chrom!Brady!Morgan (+luk). With a non-hindering flaw, Morgan hits 64 speed with LB, leading to 74% Miracle.

Kellam!Nah!Morgan (+def/-mag) hits:

53 str/ 44 mag / 46 skll / 41 spd / 57 luk / 61 def / 54 res | (with LB)

11 / 6 / 5 / 4 / 0 / 13 / 9 | (with Dragonstone+ bonuses)

64 str/ 50 mag / 51 skll / 45 spd / 57 luk / 74 def / 63 res | (total)

However, what if we want to overcome the manakete-classes' negative speed mods?

Lon'qu!Nah!Morgan (+spd/-luk). The following takes into account LB and Ds+ bonuses)

62 str/ 52 mag / 55 skll / 55 spd / 56 luk / 65 def / 60 res

The end result, is that this build sacrifices 2 points of strength, 1 point of luck, 9 points of defense, and 3 points of resistance,

to gain 2 points of magic (which means little), 4 points of skill, and 10 points of speed.

Alternatively Gaius!Nah!Mogan (+spd/-luk) has comparable stats.

Morgan also has the potential to inherit two male-only stats (opening the possibility for HP+5/Counter).

Meanwhile, Nah gets Galeforce, making her a somewhat usable lead with MaMU supporting, in-game. Anyway, here's these stats:

63 str/ 51 mag / 54 skll / 54 spd / 54 luk / 66 def / 62 res

Stat-wise, she gets +1 strength and defense, and +2 res, at the cost of 1 point of skill and speed, and 2 of luck.

Then, there's also Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan that's notable for superior skill and speed.

I'll post the stats for a +Speed MU, and a +Skill MU, both classing Morgan as an Assassin.

+Speed/-Luck:

52 str/ 39 mag / 66 skll / 67 spd / 54 luk / 41 def / 38 res

+Skill/-Defense:

55 str/ 40 mag / 68 skll / 63 spd / 54 luk / 40 def / 37 res

So what do you think? Are there other builds that are worth investigating?

[Knusperkeks]

Many of these third gens look really juicy. Yet, is one of them good enough to perform better than the boost a child gets from having Avatar as it's parent?

As a reminder, this old sets lifeline is melee counter bombs and uses as many Aggressor/Luna units as possible. I chose +Str, -Def Avatar because it's the only character who can give Laurent the necessary skills and mods to work in this setup in the way I want him to.

The more males we have, the more Aggressor we can utilize. What do you think of stacking Aggressor as much as possible?

[Tactless Tactician]

Luna+Aggressor, possibly mixed in with some Counter use seems to make sense.

But the next point of inquiry is MaMU versus FeMU. Since we have to deploy them, and Morgan is going to be of the opposite gender, either way, we get at least one Luna+Aggressor unit out of the deal. For MaMU, I'm still favoring a Miracle/Counter/HP+5/Luna strat, as it has the potential to surpass Luna/Aggressor in terms of raw damage.

The interesting thing for a third-gen MaMorgan though is, depending on the parents, he can inherit a second Female-exclusive skill from the father.

This gives him reliable access to Demoiselle, if we're still considering aura skills such as this, a viable tactic.

As far as unit deployment is concerned:

MU: forced deployment. The main issue is FeMU vs. MaMU and in the case of the latter, whether second or a third-gen pairing would be better.

Lucina: RK+Aether+Luna

Lucina's sibling: Either Aether+Luna or RK+Luna. Most likely option seems to be Inigo.

Morgan: Regardless of gender, they have the most innate versatility out of any of the children units.

Other likely units:

Gerome: Has full access to Counter bombing utilities. Only needs a Luna father. Best options are Frederick, Stahl, and Kellam. Frederick or Stahl are preferential in this instance.

Owain: Like Gerome, he has full access to Counter-bombing skills, lacking only Luna. The best option would likely be the oft-touted Ricken!Owain.

Brady: Has Miracle and Luna, needing only Counter. Donnel might be a good idea in this instance. Provides Counter, and possibly Underdog for some lvl 1 Dread Fighter shenanigans.

Laurent: Have potential for Counter-bombing, although lacking Counter. Potentially results in a good third-gen Morgan. Libra or Kellam would be good as an offensive unit.

Yarne: Akin to Laurent in that he can run Miracle/Counter, but needs Libra or Yarne for Miracle. Or he can run a Luna set with any of Frederick, Stahl, or Kellam. The latter gives him Miracle too. Lon'qu is also a consideration, if only for a third-gen Morgan with high speed and skill.

While this comes out to ten potential units with only Lucina and either FeMU or Morgan lacking Aggressor, it would be good to see what female units could also be made viable:

Cynthia: Henry or Gaius would make excellent fathers like usual, with a preference for the former.

Severa: Vaike would be excellent for providing both Counter and Luna.

Nah: With Vaike, mod-wise, she's an inferior Vaike!Severa, however she does have potential for Luna/Lethality proc-stacking as a Manakete. Counter and Lucky 7 would likely round-out the set.

Kjelle: Has innate Luna, and would hypothetically just want a father who provides Counter. Gaius or Gregor would probably be good choices in such an instance.

Noire: Also has innate Luna, but has a less-versatile skillset. Another Counter father would suffice, but it's unlikely that she'd be used anyway.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Tactless Tactician

[Knusperkeks]

I'm a bit confused. What happened to #96? Do you want to use Lethality or not?

[Tactless Tactician]

Well, I was agreeing with your potential emphasis on Aggressor+Luna, hence why I shifted the focus of the team, primarily to male units.

I was also under the impression that x10 Lethality would not be fun to play against I'm alright with using Lethality selectively, particularly for units that can execute it well. This would basically encompass Lucina, (and presumably Inigo) and possibly Morgan, depending on parentage.

[Knusperkeks]

For units who can execute it well. In my opinion, that's only units with Rightful King.

At the very least, Vaike!Nah as a Manakete without Rightful King and without brave effect isn't even worth mentioning, that's what threw me off there (towards the end of #110). Forgive me.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Tactless Tactician]

I'm in agreement with only units that have RK, using Lethality.

And sorry for the confusion. I just thought a Manakete with Lethality, proc-stacking with Luna, would be interesting.

I kind of drew inspiration from the SpotPass Tiki in the video on post 81. But instead of the breakers, I'd be more inclined to run Luna and Quick Burn instead.

Anyway, speaking of 'special' classes, I wonder how a Donnel!Brady as a lvl 1 Dread Fighter would function with Miracle, Counter, Luna, and Underdog, or whether Aggressor would still be better on a unit such as that.

To recap, only Lucina (and Inigo if her sibling) are running RK+Lethality.

The other units will be predominately male children, and running some setup involving Miracle, Counter, Aggressor, and/or Luna.

Possibly a few 'aura' skills as well.

[Knusperkeks]

On the topic of Brady: Whether he is lv 1 as a Dread Fighter or lv 1 in a promoted class virtually makes no difference as long as the enemy uses only promoted classes himself, and it's reasonable to assume that to happen. In that case, Underdog is just a worse version of Lucky7.

[Tactless Tactician]

So then Gaius and Vaike are still preferential as fathers for Brady due to passing both Fighter for Counter and Thief for Lucky 7.

It would seem the most likely pairings at this point are:

Olivia!Lucina: RK+Lethality+Aether+Luna. Most likely running her as a Dark Flier for both tome and lance access.

Chrom!Inigo: RK+Lethality+Luna+Aggressor. Will probably see use as a Dread Fighter for tome access.

Ricken!Owain: Miracle+Counter+Luna+Aggressor. Should probably be used in some melee class, like a Paladin.

Gerome: Fathered by either Frederick or Stahl. Should run a similar set to Owain.

Brady: Fathered by either Gaius or Vaike, for Miracle+Counter+Luna+Aggressor.

Either Laurent or Yarne should be fathered by Kellam to get Luna and Miracle along with Counter.

The other could run an inferior setup with Miracle+Counter+Vengeance, courtesy of Libra, or be the father of a third-gen-Morgan

Come to think of it, the M/C/Luna/Aggressor strat seems a little repetitious. What's your thoughts on the matter?

[Knusperkeks]

Come to think of it, the M/C/Luna/Aggressor strat seems a little repetitious. What's your thoughts on the matter?

I think that setup has a good (maybe the best) chance of killing player units. If it's too boring, we can always throw in random stuff like Ignis, Vantage, Vengeance, Breakers, Aegis, Pavise [...].

I see your point, but what do you suggest to replace them with? I'm pretty much open for anything really. This is supposed to be fun for the player to fight against, after all~

[Tactless Tactician]

Pavgis may seem annoying, but seldom influences the survivability of a unit.

Vantage/Vengeance at least has some potential for synergy when used with Miracle and may appear intimidating at first glance.

100% activation if the AI has a fighting chance is nice too.

So, that's two RK/Lethality/Luna units (three if Inigo!Morgan is considered)

Three Miracle/Counter/Luna/Aggressor units (Ricken!Owain, Fred/Stahl!Gerome, Vaike!Brady)

A MaMU fathering two daughters would allow for two Miracle/Counter/Vantage/Vengeance units.

Nowi, Cordelia, or Sully would be best in this regard.

Meanwhile, as the MaMU is going to spawn furthest away, I was thinking of bringing back the Miracle/Counter/HP+5/Acrobatics set as a Paladin with a Luck asset.

But that's only eight units, assuming everything above seems decent.

I suppose the group could be rounded out by Kellam and Libra fathering Laurent and Yarne.

[Knusperkeks]

In #117 I haphazardly mentioned whatever came to my mind and didn't really think everything through because I didn't anticipate you'd want to apply everything almost identically to what I said, please forgive me for that. I'll put more thought into it.

[...]

There might be more interesting combinations. The one you suggests for the daughters seems like a revved up version of the super sorcerer in apotheosis secret. I'll search for inspiration in that map, even though I don't believe there to be too much more to learn from.

[Tactless Tactician]

After completing Yarne's paralogue, I noticed that I had inadvertently passed Swordbreaker instead of Quick Burn.

As this is the no-DLC team, what would be a suitable alternative?

The prior skillset was for an Assassin!Yarne

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

In lieu of that, perhaps one of the following might suffice:

Acrobat, Vengeance, Move+1 or something else?

Also, did you happen to draw any conclusions regarding the DLC-enabled set?

[Knusperkeks]

I'd pick Acrobat or Vengeance. Former makes for more utility and immediate threat, latter really hurts when Yarne miraculously (sorry) survives.

[...]

From the Gamble, Wrath, Dragonskin, Hawkeye, Aegis+ Great Knights with Killer Lances I learned that crit is garbage. They barely have any displayed crit without Wrath against my units (similar to Gregor!Noire with Anathema, Solidarity, Wrath, which has slightly more than 20% sub 50% hp)

Wrath/Anathema/Vengeance/Killing Edge doesn't work too., though that's not Vengeance's fault.

We don't have neither skills nor base stats to make our own Thronie.

Shadowgift probably won't do anything.

maybe a Sorcerer with Book of Naga could make a decent tank. Vantage/Vengeance/Miracle/Lucky7

Overall: Vantage/Vengeance/Miracle/Counter or Lucky7 seems to be a decent set to run. L7 on 1-2 range, Counter on 1 range.

[Tactless Tactician]

Without Limit Breaker, Miracle is less likely to proc, by 10%, meaning it would likely be even more of a challenge for Vengeance to trigger for effective damage.

I think I'll go with Acrobat in this instance.

Alright, so it's effectively confirmed that any attempts at a crit build will get us nowhere.

I didn't have a terribly high opinion of Shadowgift to begin with.

For starters, the only way to get it on a unit would be Aversa or Aversa!Morgan.

As a unit, she has a negative Luck mod, which would hinder Morgan's effectiveness as a faux-'Invinci-Sorc'.

And Aversa's mods aren't anything special either, unlike Emmeryn who has a +4 magic mod, +1 speed, or Anna who provides +1 skill and +3 luck.

Mods comparable or superior to these could likely be obtained through a decent 3rd-gen Morgan anyway.

It feels like I'm going back in circles with regards to either two second-gen Morgan siblings or one third-gen Morgan.

I'd say that two second-gens would be better for skill distribution, with comparable stats.

The only exceptions to this, in my opinion would be:

• Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan: Maximum skill and speed (stats vary depending on whether we're attempting a skill or speed asset)
• Chrom!Inigo!Morgan: 71% Miracle activation with RK, a luck asset, and a non-hindering flaw. Technically Chrom!Brady!Morgan's superior luck mods would lead to 74% activation, but the Chrom x Olivia pairing is better all-around for StreetPass in my opinion.
• Kellam!Nah!Morgan: As a Sorcerer with LB, she hits 58 Magic, 48 Skill, 47 Speed, 59 Luck, 57 Defense, and 57 Resistance. With the Book of Naga's Def/Res boosts, this would lead to 62 Def/Res. Quite tanky, but her skill and speed are deplorable. Perhaps a father like Lon'qu or Gaius would help in this regard.
• Actually, Lon'qu!Nah!Morgan has 58 Magic, 50 Skill, 52 Speed, 61 Luck, 52 Defense, and 55 Resistance. Basically, it's a trade-off of 5 Defense and 2 Resistance for +2 Skill, +5 Speed, and +2 Luck. That seems like a potentially worthwhile compromise.

What are your thoughts on this?

Also, as a side-note, since you were going through Apotheosis 'bosses', I was wondering whether reconstructing a pseudo-'Nightmare Sniper' would be of any benefit.

The idea would be to take that 71% Miracle Chrom!Inigo!Morgan, and class him as a sniper with Nidhogg equipped and a skillset of Miracle, Counter, HP+5, Limit Breaker, and some proc, probably Luna. He'd effectively have an 81% chance of activating Miracle with the ability to deal 84 points of Counter damage. As Nidhogg only needs to be equipped, Brave Bows or a forged Longbow can be kept in reserve, should this Morgan survive.

[Knusperkeks]

This is the guy we're talking about. He always attacks first sans Vantage. He has passive 50% damage reduction and another 50% against the lead unit. He always triggers Luna. He has a Brave effect.

Without dual guard, It's literally impossible to survive him, even +Def/-Lck Kellam!Nah!Morgan as Manakete with Dragonstone+ with HP+5, All+2, Def+2, Defender, Limit Breaker, all tonics, Special Dance with a Hero for enough speed to not get doubled does not survive. (94 total damage taken if I didn't make a mistake)

Snipers' stat caps are insane, half of them are close to the level of super Morgan. there is no way to reproduce that.

Ultimately, I think your suggestions are all awesome(no seriously I really do), but we need a total of 10 units, and some of them can't get the desired skill set without Avatar as a father. The Yarne and Laurent below lack Vantage but hopefully make up for that with more offense. I don't really care which character marries Avatar, didn't look too much into it (besides the three(?) you mentioned), here is a basic list of what it would look like with Nowi.

I thought of making Morgan and Nah into Sorcs with both Book of Naga, possibly with Speed asset, maybe Strength flaw.

Here is a suggestion (I don't expect this to be final by any stretch of the imagination):

1. MaMu: Miracle/Counter/HP+5/Acrobatics set as a Paladin with a Luck asset.
2. Chrom!Inigo: RFK/Lethality/Luna/<filler>
3. Olivia!Lucina: RFK/Lethality/Aether/Luna
4. Ricken!Owain: M/C/Luna/Aggressor
5. Vaike!Brady: M/C/Luna/Aggressor
6. Stahl!Gerome: M/C/Luna/Aggressor
7. MaMu!Nah: M/C/Vantage/Vengeance
8. Nowi!Morgan: M/C/Vantage/Vengeance
9. Kellam!Laurent: M/C/Luna/Aggressor
10. Libra!Yarne: M/C/Vengeance/Aggressor
    
    Edit: I'll be back in a few hours.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Tactless Tactician]

I'd honestly prefer to go +Luck MaMU x Maribelle for the best luck mods a second-gen unit can produce. But barring that, why not Donnel!Brady?

The aforementioned set for Brady doesn't use anything from Vaike's Barbarian or Thief lines, he still gets Counter, and he hits 62 luck with LB.

To be fair, here's a side-by-side comparison of their mods.

Donnel!Brady:

-1 Str / +2 Mag / +1 Skll / +0 Spd / +7 Luk / -1 Def / +2 Res

Vaike!Brady:

+1 Str / +1 Mag / +3 Skll / +2 Spd / +3 Luk / -2 Def / +1 Res

As it turns out, Vaike!Brady has +2 strength, skill, and speed over Donnel!Brady. But the latter has +4 luck and +1 def/res over the former.

Both defensive and raw offensive stats are negligible to an extent; the latter of which is being supplemented with Aggressor anyway.

So it comes down to +2 skill/speed or +4 luck. The skillset would remain virtually unchanged.

Which seems like the smarter option?

With regards to the team as a whole, we have:

MaMU - Auto-deployed.

Lucina - RK Procstacker

Inigo - RK Procstacker

Owain - Has everything inherently, save for Luna.

Gerome - Same as Gerome

Brady - Akin to the other two aforementioned males, he has almost everything he needs, lacking Counter.

Laurent - Needs Miracle, and would appreciate Luna. Kellam provides both. Otherwise, he could run Vengeance, I suppose.

Yarne - In the exact same boat as Laurent; however, there's only one Kellam, and MaMU is likely better off bringing two daughters with Counter+everything else into existence.

Cynthia - Despite lacking Aggressor, hers may be more viable than Yarne's 'incomplete' set due to being able to run Miracle/Counter/Luna/Lethality with Gaius or Henry as a father.

My rationale is this:

• If the player engages Yarne/Cynthia, first they must be able to trigger Miracle at which they have a 54% chance of doing.
• This Miracle trigger must occur in a situation where they're able to attack immediately after. Otherwise, a Dual Strike or second attack from a Brave weapon finishes them off, and it's all for naught.
• So, after an event that has a 54% chance to occur (which is further reduced significantly due to game mechanics and irl probability) procs, Yarne would be the superior option due to being able to guarantee a Vengeance proc for at least 39 damage, provided he can hit. Cynthia, meanwhile has an approximately 50%-ish chance to proc Luna to do anything meaningful.
• Alternatively, if the AI unit happens to engage the player, assuming no contact has occurred, Yarne won't do anything aside from Counter-damage, whereas Cynthia again has a 50%-ish chance to do 'something'.

It all depends on how we want to hedge our bets, I suppose. Cynthia is 'safer' (with the minor potential for an OHKO), but Yarne has the potential to reliably hit a higher damage threshold.

Between MaMu, Lucina, Inigo, Gerome, Owain, Brady, and Kellam!Laurent/Yarne, and the 'Morgan siblings', we have nine units.

Will Libra!Yarne/Laurent be the final unit, or does Counter!Cynthia have potential?

And with regards to the Morgan siblings, who should we pair MaMU with?

Strictly speaking, our choices for a 'second-Morgan' pairing resulting in two Counter daughters would involve:

Sully, Sumia (assuming Cynthia isn't being used already), Cordelia, Nowi, and Tharja.

Now, assuming +Luck for maximum Miracle, the resultant flaw will hit either speed or skill with a -1 mod. We'll need to establish which is less critical.

Aside from that, let's see the mods of the potential mothers:

Sully:

-1 Str / -1 Mag / +2 Skll / +2 Spd / +0Luk / -1 Def / +0 Res | Not bad. The skill and speed are nice, if nothing else.

Sumia:

-2 Str / +0 Mag / +2 Skll / +3 Spd / +0Luk / -2 Def / +1 Res | A little weaker on the physical end of the spectrum, a little stronger magically, and an extra point of speed.

Cordelia:

+1 Str / -1 Mag / +2 Skll / +2 Spd / -1Luk / +0 Def / -1 Res | Good skill and speed, but that -1 to Luck is a minor red flag.

Nowi:

+1 Str / +1 Mag / -1 Skll / -2 Spd / +1Luk / +3 Def / +2 Res | Good defensive mods, and a nice +1 to Luck. The -1 to skill is of minor concern with Vengeance usage. But the -2 speed is unfortunate.

Tharja:

+0 Str / +3 Mag / -1 Skll / +1 Spd / -3Luk / +1 Def / +0 Res | A negative three luck mod? Kill it with fire!!!

So, in my opinion, Sumia (if not already paired with Gaius or Henry), seems to barely edge out Sully, who in turn beats out Cordelia.

Meanwhile, Nowi is in a tricky 'grey area' for being jailbait due to having both beneficial and detrimental mods in various areas.

And Tharja, I can safely say, will not be used save for spawning Noire in-game...

What's your take on this?

[Knusperkeks]

Donnel!Brady:

-1 Str / +2 Mag / +1 Skll / +0 Spd / +7 Luk / -1 Def / +2 Res

Vaike!Brady:

+1 Str / +1 Mag / +3 Skll / +2 Spd / +3 Luk / -2 Def / +1 Res

As it turns out, Vaike!Brady has +2 strength, skill, and speed over Donnel!Brady. But the latter has +4 luck and +1 def/res over the former.

Both defensive and raw offensive stats are negligible to an extent; the latter of which is being supplemented with Aggressor anyway.

So it comes down to +2 skill/speed or +4 luck. The skillset would remain virtually unchanged.

Which seems like the smarter option?

If Vaike efficiently gets utilized as a father for someone else, I think Donnel is the better choice. Farmer boy has impeccable luck but not much else in terms of mods and classes, so using him for Brady, who has almost everything he needs by default might be a good call. The decisions depends on how useful Vaike is for the others.

Laurent - Needs Miracle, and would appreciate Luna. Kellam provides both. Otherwise, he could run Vengeance, I suppose.

Yarne - In the exact same boat as Laurent; however, there's only one Kellam, and MaMU is likely better off bringing two daughters with Counter+everything else into existence.

Cynthia - Despite lacking Aggressor, hers may be more viable than Yarne's 'incomplete' set due to being able to run Miracle/Counter/Luna/Lethality with Gaius or Henry as a father.

My rationale is this:

• If the player engages Yarne/Cynthia, first they must be able to trigger Miracle at which they have a 54% chance of doing.
• This Miracle trigger must occur in a situation where they're able to attack immediately after. Otherwise, a Dual Strike or second attack from a Brave weapon finishes them off, and it's all for naught.
• So, after an event that has a 54% chance to occur (which is further reduced significantly due to game mechanics and irl probability) procs, Yarne would be the superior option due to being able to guarantee a Vengeance proc for at least 39 damage, provided he can hit. Cynthia, meanwhile has an approximately 50%-ish chance to proc Luna to do anything meaningful.
• Alternatively, if the AI unit happens to engage the player, assuming no contact has occurred, Yarne won't do anything aside from Counter-damage, whereas Cynthia again has a 50%-ish chance to do 'something'.

It all depends on how we want to hedge our bets, I suppose. Cynthia is 'safer' (with the minor potential for an OHKO), but Yarne has the potential to reliably hit a higher damage threshold.

There are some very subtle differences, but most of the time, it's a coin flip anyway, so it's probably personal preference which one is being used.

I'm not certain which one is better, since it's all based on unknown and random factors. I find it impossible to predict which is better.

I tend towards Yarne because of Aggressor, but mainly for a greater risk/reward ratio. For example: Even if Cynthia does manage to damage somebody with Luna, that doesn't mean the unit is disabled. Yarne has a better shot at it.

And with regards to the Morgan siblings, who should we pair MaMU with?

Strictly speaking, our choices for a 'second-Morgan' pairing resulting in two Counter daughters would involve:

Sully, Sumia (assuming Cynthia isn't being used already), Cordelia, Nowi, and Tharja.

Now, assuming +Luck for maximum Miracle, the resultant flaw will hit either speed or skill with a -1 mod. We'll need to establish which is less critical.

Aside from that, let's see the mods of the potential mothers:

Sully:

-1 Str / -1 Mag / +2 Skll / +2 Spd / +0Luk / -1 Def / +0 Res | Not bad. The skill and speed are nice, if nothing else.

Sumia:

-2 Str / +0 Mag / +2 Skll / +3 Spd / +0Luk / -2 Def / +1 Res | A little weaker on the physical end of the spectrum, a little stronger magically, and an extra point of speed.

Cordelia:

+1 Str / -1 Mag / +2 Skll / +2 Spd / -1Luk / +0 Def / -1 Res | Good skill and speed, but that -1 to Luck is a minor red flag.

Nowi:

+1 Str / +1 Mag / -1 Skll / -2 Spd / +1Luk / +3 Def / +2 Res | Good defensive mods, and a nice +1 to Luck. The -1 to skill is of minor concern with Vengeance usage. But the -2 speed is unfortunate.

Tharja:

+0 Str / +3 Mag / -1 Skll / +1 Spd / -3Luk / +1 Def / +0 Res | A negative three luck mod? Kill it with fire!!!

So, in my opinion, Sumia (if not already paired with Gaius or Henry), seems to barely edge out Sully, who in turn beats out Cordelia.

Meanwhile, Nowi is in a tricky 'grey area' for being jailbait due to having both beneficial and detrimental mods in various areas.

And Tharja, I can safely say, will not be used save for spawning Noire in-game...

What's your take on this?

If I want to make two sorcerer tanks, it'll probably be Nowi, otherwise probably Sumia for speed and no penalty in luck.

I don't blame anyone for picking the character they personally prefer here, since the differences are minor.

I think your analysis makes sense.