Dcat's new sprite thread(trying full custom...)

[ghast]

Well then. I get told not to use the mauthe doog base. Get told to make my own base. And no matter what I do, I still get told I suck. That's just great. I can't use a base(which is easier)without sucking, can't do anything without sucking.

I don't know what to tell you, I guess you aren't a natural at spriting. Not everyone ends up being good at spriting, or they learn very slowly. That's just it. Admitting you suck at it doesn't really change anything, unless it means you're willing to accept the fact that you aren't good and you need to slow down with the customing.

Oh, and I've been pencil drawing cats and felines for years. They're not super realistic, but I've developed my own style. How good of an idea is it to pencil draw it and then pixel over it?

I still don't understand why the mauthe doog is a bad base. So what if they're demon dogs, they can be made into felines...people heavily edit vanilla sprites all the time.

Urgh, how do I say this without sounding mean. I'll just be honest, your edits aren't good. And Mauthe Doogs aren't good either because they are half skeletons, and they are missing fur in various places because they are literally zombie dogs. The only 'good' mauthe doog edit was SoC's, but even that was just alright, but he was better at customs and spriting in general than you. Probably from practicing the right way.

Mauthe Doog: Its bad because people think its safe, and while it probably best represents what an animal would look like in fire emblem style, it needs to be- and I'll say this with emphasis- heavily edited. like, hugely edited. You need to custom fur, meat on their bones, and take away their mane thing. It calls for customing right off the bat. And all of your attempts at editing have made badly proportioned, samey animal sprites that are bad.

My solution? It depends on your goals.

If you actually want to get better at spriting, stop customing altogether and stick to splicing existing parts of battle sprites. You just aren't good enough right now to custom well, battle sprites or portraits or class cards.

Like I'll just be honest here, you just aren't there. I wasn't either when I started, and neither was Lenh. Neither Was Kon.

If you don't want to improve, then you can try to push through our advice and continue making bad sprites. Its your call, and its no skin off our backs.

How long did it take you to get where you are, Lenh? And please don't say "I didn't have to work at it" or less than a year. Because if I can't get to that point within that time...ack.

Its practicing and listening to what people better than you have to say. Does it sound a bit elitist? Well yeah, but that's what it calls for if you want to get good. Some people are naturals at it. Merc and Nih are naturals at mug spriting.

Maybe I'm a natural at Bspriting.

Maybe Matt Snow is a natural at Mapping.

But I was certainly not a natural at mug spriting, and I still am not totally great at it. But I still try and I listen to my colleagues. And I get better. I'm getting better because I don't try anything super ambitious that is out of my league. If I try something that's too ambitious, I get told it isn't good, BIG DEAL. I stop doing it and stick to my guns, then once I get better I try again, and again and again.

TL;DR

I'm not going to beat around the bush. You're essentially asking for brutal honesty by the way you've structured your post.

You aren't objectively good at spriting stuff /yet/. Do basic stuff first like only splices. everyone starts with splices if they aren't literal professionals to begin with.

[Dragoncat]

Woo. I really lost my head there.

So...get better at drawing and I'll get better at spriting? Try improving there first? Because I feel like I've made more progress there. I used to...*cringe* Let's just say before I tried studying anatomy and looking at references it looked like something a drunk 2nd grader drew. inb4 someone says "but they still look like that". Nobody say that, or I'll probably fly off the handle again.

I get the feeling that I should forget about pixeling again until I've perfected drawing. If it really is that related.

[Nanami Touko]

you should forget about doing custom work

that's all this boils down to

no one here has done good custom work without extensive work on splicing things together, or without having an art background

it's not complicated.

also i will be that guy and say that your art still looks very underdeveloped, you could really use some realistic drawing practice.

Edited May 24, 2015 by I have opinions

[Sandalphon]

Here's the dealio: you're biting off more than you can chew. You're trying to be a Michelin starred chef when you haven't finished culinary school. I used to be the same way: you get so excited about what you could do that you ignore what you CAN do and try to jump into it and end up confused and hurt when the end product looks mediocre. Then when people point that out, you get hurt and bruised because you were jumping into the deep end and their words seem like harsh insults directed at you, a reflection of your person rather than commentary on the work itself.

Here are some of the most important words I've learned regarding art: "don't take critique personally". Most people don't critique you because they hate you or think you're stupid, but because they want you to improve. Butting heads with people who crit your work will usually amount to diddly squat.

Start small, start with the fundamentals. Devour what you can about the little stuff and practice those first steps. Don't beat yourself up when your practice goes badly, but internalize that and try to learn from what went wrong. You will produce a lot of duds, not every experiment will work, people will tell you when something is wrong. That's the truth. Don't get insulted when they do. I understand that you put a lot of time and effort into what you're making, but you can't let that colour how you react to criticism.

But yeah, start small. That sucks because you'll be itching to go big and try to match exactly what the picture looks like in your head, but try to resist that urge. You have limitations. Everyone who draws/pixels/ makes any kind of art does. It's not a slight against you, it's a fact. Accept those limitations and slowly try to push them by building on the base you built by practicing the basics of color and form (You can apply these to pixels too). Start with cubes and spheres, work on shading those and lining those. Once you're good at that, elaborate on those studies. It's OK to take it slow.

(Sorry for any typos/ autocorrect mishaps, I'm typing on mobile so my skills leave to be desired.)

Edited May 24, 2015 by scolipede

[Dragoncat]

Are you guys telling me to take art classes in college or something? But I dun want to draw naked people...I'd feel uncomfortable.

Also the cubes and spheres...if I had a dollar for every time I had to draw one of those in middle/high school I'd be rich. The fact of the matter: cubes and spheres are boring. Nobody wants to see them. People want to see awesome characters.

I'm aware I need practice. And I feel that I am improving. But I wish I had my friend's talent. She could be a concept artist, I kid you not. Yet she still finds flaws: "the arm is too long" and other stupid stuff when it looks like a thousand times better than I can do.

Is it humanely possible to get good WITHOUT taking classes? I mean I can...but...naked people.

[Nanami Touko]

what

there are plenty of art classes that don't draw naked people?
what world are you living in where that's the only type of class

and no one said take class

we said try realistic drawing

reference real drawings

trace for a while, if you have to

yes, it is

with, or without classes, it just takes effort

a good few years of it.

Also the cubes and spheres...if I had a dollar for every time I had to draw one of those in middle/high school I'd be rich. The fact of the matter: cubes and spheres are boring. Nobody wants to see them. People want to see awesome characters.

then draw them for practice and don't show us

you're far too impatient.

Edited May 25, 2015 by I have opinions

[ghast]

what are you talking about lol. You don't need to take classes just practice spriting basic stuff. Don't over complicate it

[Dragoncat]

what

there are plenty of art classes that don't draw naked people?

what world are you living in where that's the only type of class

The college in my area has a life drawing thing. And from what I've heard, that's the final. Rumors float around though, so it may or may not be true. And I will never trace. Tracing doesn't teach you anything except how to copy.

Ghast: I was discussing how improving at drawing could help me improve at spriting. That came up.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dragoncat

[Nanami Touko]

Yeah, it probably is the final. And I'm sure there are other classes that have nothing to do with life drawing.

If it's an art college, a liberal arts college, or even an engineering college, I am fairly certain they'll have more than life drawing for art classes.

And I will never trace. Tracing doesn't teach you anything except how to copy.

Hah.

Edited May 25, 2015 by I have opinions

[Sandalphon]

Drawing nudes is scary but in my experience you get used to it REALLY FAST and you sort of get so focused on what you are drawing that you don't care about the fact that there are naked people in the room with you.

Also this might sound counterintuitive, but the Shrimp Method of learning to draw involves tracing in order to improve muscle memory and familiarise yourself with textures. I've never used it but it works for some people (you should find it easily if that sounds interesting to you).

Again, don't jump in too fast, build up your bases and then use those to elaborate. I've drawn TONS of cubes and pyramids and spheres too, sometimes I even go back to drawing them to practice new colouring techniques or whatever. It's a process.

[Eliwan]

The college in my area has a life drawing thing. And from what I've heard, that's the final. Rumors float around though, so it may or may not be true.

They probably also have not-life-drawing classes.

They don't require a model and thus are likely actually easier to get resources for.

And I will never trace. Tracing doesn't teach you anything except how to copy.

I'd say that copying something-- without using tracing paper-- is actually incredibly useful, having done it multiple times for a wide variety of reasons.

Additionally, you could also instead try and figure out the underlying anatomy from a traced piece.

...But fine, do none of those.

Go to a park with a pad of paper and draw people as they walk by. Do just the flows of the body, scribble down something very fast.

Or take a picture of somebody just walking by.

Or search up some pictures of people. Stock images are wonderful for this.

Take a picture and try and draw that picture, or parts of that picture, without tracing it.

There are hundreds of options for getting better at drawing, all you need is practice.

And the same applies to spriting, too.

I'm of the same idea, if I read you correctly, that

Also the cubes and spheres...if I had a dollar for every time I had to draw one of those in middle/high school I'd be rich. The fact of the matter: cubes and spheres are boring. Nobody wants to see them. People want to see awesome characters.

But two things:

1) Just because you do them does not mean you have to share them. I have my own fair share of drawings that nobody else has seen and likely nobody will see.

2) They do help, some.

I know a lot of people who say that before drawing a face but after drawing the outline of that head you should draw a few lines so you know where the eyes/ears/nose/mouth/hair go...

And I didn't start doing that until two years ago, because it felt wrong to me. It really did.

And I can state with great confidence that my art has improved from doing experiments with making shapes into bodies instead of just starting with the outline of a body. ><

On the subject of pixel art versus traditional art versus digital art...

Nah. Dibble in each one if it pleases you. Stick your hands in all the pots-- but I've personally found that no matter what all the skills are intertwined. In all of the mediums, you've still got the same end task:

Make a representation of a thing.

I mean, personally, I went from drawing to spriting to drawing to spriting to drawing to doing both and then later threw in digital art, then I dropped spriting and then I dropped doing traditional art, and then I went back to spriting and traditional, and then I dropped spriting again...

I'd say that each time I was still progressing in all three, even if I had dropped one for a time I still was better at it when I returned.