Pavise/Aegis/Miracle

[Elieson]

The three defensive skills in the game. I need clarification on how these buggers officially work. I'm assuming:

Attacker->attacks->[ifOffensiveSkill:activates offensive skill on proc] ->[activates crit]->Defender [ifPavise/Aegis:activates Pavise/Aegis on proc]->[ifMiracle&HP>1:activates Miracle on proc]

in the sense that, if I were to attack say, 6HP/20Def/20Res Brady with a 40ATK Severa. Brady could theoretically activate Pavise/Aegis accordingly and Miracle, should Pavise/Aegis not keep him from reaching 0 HP.

What I'm unsure of is:

• If Pavise/Aegis and Miracle can activate same-turn (i'm assuming yes)
• If Miracle can activate against Lethality (i'm assuming yes)
• If Pavise/Aegis activate against each individual strike of Astra/Aether, or if it just triggers on the first strike and is automatically activates for the remaining 4/1 strikes. (i'm assuming the latter for both skills)

[Bovinian]

The three defensive skills in the game. I need clarification on how these buggers officially work. I'm assuming:

Attacker->attacks->[ifOffensiveSkill:activates offensive skill on proc] ->[activates crit]->Defender [ifPavise/Aegis:activates Pavise/Aegis on proc]->[ifMiracle&HP>1:activates Miracle on proc]

in the sense that, if I were to attack say, 6HP/20Def/20Res Brady with a 40ATK Severa. Brady could theoretically activate Pavise/Aegis accordingly and Miracle, should Pavise/Aegis not keep him from reaching 0 HP.

What I'm unsure of is:

• If Pavise/Aegis and Miracle can activate same-turn (i'm assuming yes)
• If Miracle can activate against Lethality (i'm assuming yes)
• If Pavise/Aegis activate against each individual strike of Astra/Aether, or if it just triggers on the first strike and is automatically activates for the remaining 4/1 strikes. (i'm assuming the latter for both skills)

Pavise, Aegis, Miracle, and Lethality are all skills that work by modifying the damage done by attacks. Obviously, Lethality modifies the damage output of the user (i.e. an attacker proc), and the other three modify the damage output of the one who attacked the user (i.e. defender procs). I haven't tested it personally, but since Pavise/Aegis/Miracle all fall into this latter category, I would guess that only one of them can proc at a time, since the one taking the damage can only modify his taken damage once.

I'll use your Brady+Severa example. Severa is the attacker and Brady is the defender.

Severa has 20 listed damage on Brady and attacks Brady without a proc of her own. Brady activates one of PavGis when he is attacked and it modifies damage taken to 10 (damage/2 rounded down) at the same time the inflicted damage is calculated. We know that Miracle modifies damage taken to (remaining HP - 1), also at the same time the inflicted damage is calculated. We know that generally, two procs can't activate at the same instant. Although I have no idea, if I had to guess, I'd say that Miracle taking priority over PavGis makes the most sense. If Brady is facing a fatal attack, he checks for a Miracle proc first, and if that fails, he checks for a PavGis proc (even if it wouldn't save him).

For Miracle vs. Lethality, the two skills modify damage at different times, so yes they can both occur simultaneously. If Severa activates Lethality while Brady has 6 HP, her damage is modified to 6 (rather than it being explicitly flagged as a OHKO). Her attack hits Brady, who then activates Miracle and modifies the damage he takes to 5, surviving with 1 HP. It is effectively the same as getting Miracle to activate when the opponent has activated Luna.

Each hit of Astra/Aether counts as a separate attack when checking for PavGis procs. IIRC the only situation in which something triggers on the first strike and automatically activates for the remaining strikes is when a Dual Guard activates against an enemy's Astra.

[Elieson]

Severa has 20 listed damage on Brady and attacks Brady without a proc of her own. Brady activates one of PavGis when he is attacked and it modifies damage taken to 10 (damage/2 rounded down) at the same time the inflicted damage is calculated. We know that Miracle modifies damage taken to (remaining HP - 1), also at the same time the inflicted damage is calculated. We know that generally, two procs can't activate at the same instant. Although I have no idea, if I had to guess, I'd say that Miracle taking priority over PavGis makes the most sense. If Brady is facing a fatal attack, he checks for a Miracle proc first, and if that fails, he checks for a PavGis proc (even if it wouldn't save him).

See, I would think of it in the other way; in that PavGis would roll the check first (Reducing damage) and then if that reduced damage still was not enough to keep Brady alive, then Brady would proc Miracle, to survive the weakened yet-still fatal attack

For Miracle vs. Lethality, the two skills modify damage at different times, so yes they can both occur simultaneously. If Severa activates Lethality while Brady has 6 HP, her damage is modified to 6 (rather than it being explicitly flagged as a OHKO). Her attack hits Brady, who then activates Miracle and modifies the damage he takes to 5, surviving with 1 HP. It is effectively the same as getting Miracle to activate when the opponent has activated Luna.

Makes enough sense; I just forgot if Miracle altered Lethality this way or not

Each hit of Astra/Aether counts as a separate attack when checking for PavGis procs. IIRC the only situation in which something triggers on the first strike and automatically activates for the remaining strikes is when a Dual Guard activates against an enemy's Astra.

I was thinking Pavise/Aegis did the same thing as DualGrd here, which is the source of my confusion with the whole Aether/Astra and Pavise/Aegis thing to begin with

[Bovinian]

See, I would think of it in the other way; in that PavGis would roll the check first (Reducing damage) and then if that reduced damage still was not enough to keep Brady alive, then Brady would proc Miracle, to survive the weakened yet-still fatal attack

My point was that Miracle and PavGis probably can't proc in response to the same attack. If Brady is facing a fatal attack and can only proc one of his defensive skills, Miracle would be checked first because it will always be able to save Brady if successful.** If Miracle happens, then PavGis isn't checked. This is just my theory based on how the other procs in Awakening work.

A similar analogy would be how a Unit X with both Lethality and Luna can't proc both on the same attack. When Unit X attacks and checks for a proc, Lethality is checked first, presumably because it is assumed to always be able to kill the opponent if successful. He doesn't roll for Luna first (increasing damage dealt), and then subsequently have a chance to proc Lethality on the same attack if the enemy isn't dead.

** I believe this is true even in the event that PavGis WOULD reduce the damage enough to save Brady, for two reasons:

1. Survival is still not guaranteed with a PavGis proc, because (potentially) crits can happen. With a Miracle proc, surviving that attack is 100% guaranteed.

2. I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think the game ever takes the result of a proc into consideration when doing damage calculations. What I mean by this is, even if PavGis would allow Brady to survive with more than 1 HP, the game wouldn't recognize this as an option that is superior to Miracle. My main reasoning for this comes from my Lunatic+ experiences. We know that in general, if the AI sees a unit that it can do enough damage to kill in one battle, the AI will attack that unit. If an AI unit with Luna+ can kill a player unit but would not have been able to kill without Luna, the AI doesn't recognize that it has Luna and will not flag the player unit as killable. Again, I could be wrong on this.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Bovinian