Rank the FE characters in SSB4 from best to worst competitively.

[Vajra]

Ike's buffs cannot be understated, especially in 1.0.8. He had his landing lag reduced on four of his aerials, and his Jab now connects more reliably. Considering the many buffs he received in 1.0.4., I was so sure at the time that Ike would not be touched again. I think his faltering metagame in Japan may be largely responsible. Ike was barely viable in SSBB due to his broken Jab and his ridiculous F-air; his trademark power and range also helped him. Now, he eclipses his Brawl incarnation in nearly every aspect. His loss of power was largely compensated by his increased mobility and above average combo ability.

Here's a fun fact, Ike's F-air landing lag is now the same as Marth's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TmFdK_bVE

Roy is a beast when it comes to combos. Ike may be slower, but that does not mean he is incapable of combos, and he has surprisingly many for his weight class. His throw and combo game are definitely on par with Roy's. ^-^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_meiFWdNas

gorilla marth is the best description of him i've ever heard ever

Same. I still remember Ike being compared to the likes of a gorilla by the Japanese audience around the time of his return announcement. ^-^

Edited June 28, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[Tsunami922]

gorilla marth is the best description of him i've ever heard ever

Same. I still remember Ike being compared to the likes of a gorilla by the Japanese audience around the time of his return announcement. ^-^

Gorrila Marth? Sounds about right.

Source: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=46921724

[Jedi]

That picture is adorable.

[Knife]

Roy is number 1 because of his broken Fsmash and possibly Nair (because low landing lag). The rest of his tool kit is subpar. The grab game is not THAT good either relative to a lot of the cast, just better than the other FE characters.

[Vajra]

Roy is number 1 because of his broken Fsmash and possibly Nair (because low landing lag). The rest of his tool kit is subpar. The grab game is not THAT good either relative to a lot of the cast, just better than the other FE characters.

Roy's F-smash is definitely something. It has Marth levels of speed while hitting almost as hard as Ike's. Speaking of broken, how many of you believe in the possibility of it being nerfed in a future patch? ^-^

[Anacybele]

If it hits nearly as hard as Ike's fsmash and is as fast as Marth's...yeah, it could get a nerf.

[Comet]

if people complain about it much it might happen. it would just make roy more boring though, like poor diddy kong and sheik.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Comet

[ARGHETH]

Ike>Marth>Roy>Lucina>Robin

Ike and Marth's buffs helped them a lot, and made them much more viable and comparable to Roy.

Why do you guys put Robin so high? As a Robin main, his giant deadzone at midrange, awful running/walking speed, and terrible grab range (without many followups anyways) hurt him significantly.

Edited June 30, 2015 by ARGHETH

[Jedi]

How do you rank Roy lower then Ike and Marth if I may ask? Sure they got buffs, but thats not quite comparable to all the options Roy has.

Ike has a solid mid tier grasp now sure, but Roy is looking to be one of the top contenders.

[Vajra]

Ike>Marth>Roy>Lucina>Robin

Ike and Marth's buffs helped them a lot, and made them much more viable and comparable to Roy.

Why do you guys put Robin so high? As a Robin main, his giant deadzone at midrange, awful running/walking speed, and terrible grab range (without many followups anyways) hurt him significantly.

Wow. Our rankings are nearly identical. Glad to see I'm not the only one to not put Roy at the top. ^-^

Anyway, to expand on my opening post, specifically on why I have both Marth and Ike placed higher than Roy, my placements of the FE characters in SSB4 are based mainly on the relative safety and versatility of their options.

I placed Marth higher than Roy due to my belief that spaced attacks may be better in a metagame that is gradually becoming more and more defensive. Marth benefits especially since he is rewarded extra damage for proper spacing, and that tipper F-smash is scary! It also helps that he can SH auto-cancel some of his aerials. His recovery, while having worse angling than Roy's, is far less vulnerable to gimps and counters due to its faster animation. Marth can even be somewhat unpredictable with his recovery by using the first hit of Dancing Blade to momentarily stall his momentum in the air. I do not recall Roy being able to do that with Double-Edge Dance. Also, Marth's range nerf from SSBB was overblown by the community; it turns out his N-air and F-air actually had more range this time.

I have Ike placed farther than Roy for mostly the same reasons. He may not share the same reward Marth has for spacing, but at least he is safe when he spaces his attacks from max distance. For his weight class, many of his attacks, aside from being powerful, come out deceptively fast. One of Ike's biggest strengths in SSB4 is his throws; his D-throw and U-throw can true combo into any of his aerials from low to mid percents, and can now even kill confirm at high percents, thanks to the F-air hitbox fix. Ike's main recovery, Aether is linear and predictable, but having Quick Draw as a second recovery allows him to play mix-up when he recovers high. What makes Ike's Quick Draw interesting when used aerially is its ability to auto-cancel, which is a property shared with his F-air and B-air. Ike can also frame trap decently with U-air and U-smash due to their lingering frames and wide hitbox, respectively.

Now onto Roy himself. As ridiculous as his F-smash is, I am indifferent to it possibly being nerfed. Personally, I find that to be one of, if not the only thing keeping Roy in line with Marth and Ike at the moment, besides his combo ability. His Blazer is a very nice OoS option that can kill fairly early, especially with rage, but it is a commitment that can be heavily punished if it gets read. I still cannot help but find his fall speed more a hindrance to him than anything; of course, I can't deny that its great when it works, but when players exploit the weaknesses of Roy's fall speed, this puts him in a very precarious situation, such that he is susceptible to juggling on-stage while vulnerable to gimps off-stage. His lack of SH auto-cancels is saddening, but at least he has little landing lag on most of his aerials, especially N-air.

With all that said, Roy is solid. He reaps massive reward when he is able to "get in" on his opponents and make good reads with F-smash. I currently use him as a secondary. I made a very minor revision to my ranking in the first page. Having experimented with Roy some more, I think he might end up being very close to both Marth and Ike on the tier list, with all three being considerably better than Robin and Lucina.

Marth ≥ Ike ≥ Roy >>> Lucina > Robin

In a customs environment, however, I could imagine it looking something like this...

Marth = Ike > Roy > Lucina > Robin

Feel free to disagree with my analysis, of course. ^-^

Edited July 1, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[Ebony]

Lyn > everyone because she ohkos

But in all seriousness, I'd assume Roy > Ike > Marth > Lucina > Robin. At least from what I've played and seen.

[Tsunami922]

Lyn > everyone because she ohkos

I agree with this. Best list so far. Now why can't we play as her?

[Sesshomaru]

Roy>Ike>Marth>Robin>Lucina

Roy is the best because he has the mix of power and speed, which is essential in thriving in a smash game. That isn't to say he is Top tier however, his recovery is almost as bad as Ike's, doesn't have the greatest options to get up close and personal for his hilt hits, and basically the only way you can land an F-Smash on someone good is when you have good reads on the person.

Ike I believe has always been the best FE character in Sm4sh since Roy's release purely for his ability to wall and create combos, and actually having good options when you land a grab. I'd consider him in the upper half of the characters in Sm4sh, but as stated before, his recovery is absolute trash, made a little better with quick-draw coming out faster with the recent patch. Another thing that he struggles with is his ability to approach projectile characters, since realistically the only thing you can do is nair, which is again was buffed for faster landing, which helps. Nairs, Fairs, Bairs, and D-tilt, and maybe F-tilt with the buff is all you are realistically are going to use when playing him.

Marth makes me so sad. He was so good in melee and brawl but now is a shadow of his former self. His grabs are absolute trash compared to melee, zero combo game, and has absolutely AWFUL landing lag on his aerials. These 3 major changes make it so i basically wouldn't ever play him in fear of crying when I play melee and viewing their comparisons.

Robin I'm somewhat in the dark about, but I've seen pro's tier lists to know that he is trash. His projectile game isn't very good, with his lightning spells doing trash damage and ArcThunder being better than thoron in almost every case. ArcFire has way to much lag and can be punished out of shield. Nosferatu is basically only usable when the person is caught in ArcThunder or a hard read. His Levins Sword is his only saving grace, with having farther range than Marth's Falchion and great knockback, but the amount of uses brings it down, which also thwarts is bair and fair, which uses the Levins sword. Overall, Robin is very unique and fun to use, but isn't good at all in competitive play.

Lucina: Marth without his tippers, which is basically their only kill potential on stage and is extra range. Look on the bright side though, She'll be a pallet swap for Marth most likely in the next Smash game !

Edited July 1, 2015 by Sesshomaru

[Zera]

I haven't got Roy, but I fight my brother, who does, quite often. Roy's f-smash is dumb. It has Marth speed, Ike damage, and great range. If you were good at baiting and punishing, you could probably kill some For Glory noobs with f-smash alone. Roy's n-air and Flare Blade have no substantial endlag, making them incredibly safe. His recovery is also surprisingly good.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Zera

[Kiseki]

I haven't got Roy, but I fight my brother, who does, quite often. Roy's f-smash is dumb. It has Marth speed, Ike damage, and great range. If you were good at baiting and punishing, you could probably kill some For Glory noobs with f-smash alone. Roy's n-air and Flare Blade have no substantial endlag, making them incredibly safe. His recovery is also surprisingly good.

I don't really see a problem with Roy's F-Smash. Block/Counter it and you've got a free punish in most scenarios. I feel his recovery is almost like DK's recovery in the sense that it's "great for horizontal, not so much vertical".

Speaking about Counter, it's amazing how Roy can turn around a match completely after getting one of these to land. I've done it against noob spammers online quite often.

Oh, and Roy's F-Air is a beast.

Overall, I'd say:

Roy=Robin>Ike>Lucina>Marth

I don't know if it's just me, but the timing with all 4 hits on Dancing Blade feels a lot less stricter with Lucina than it is with Marth or Roy.

[Comet]

the frame data for dancing blade / double edged dance is identical among marth, lucina, and roy.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Comet

[TheGreatNothing]

The funny thing is that I main Lucina but put her in last.

[Jedi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=157&v=MHAwi8LAWO8

A good analysis.

[Vajra]

It's good to see ZeRo's impression of Ike becoming more positive. With these buffs, he can definitely be considered for at least top half of the cast, which is what his Brawl incarnation was unable to do. ^-^

Ike was pretty lacking during the 3DS launch days. His first buff package in 1.0.4. really transformed him into a competitive threat, and the 1.0.8. update made him even better.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[Anacybele]

Yet 12 people here still think Ike is the worst FE character. Pff. :P

[Comet]

there aren't a lot of people here who know a lot about competitive smash, so it should be expected

[Vajra]

Yet 12 people here still think Ike is the worst FE character. Pff. :P

All the more reason to buff Ike even further! Remember the "better nerf Greninja" meme? Looks like there should be one for Ike, too. lol. "better buff Ike" ^-^

Comet is right, though. Any community outside of the competitive section of Smashboards are not really the most competitively informed. It is interesting to see what every forum community thinks of these characters, though. Both Serenes Forest and GameFAQs. for instance, seem to agree Lucina and Ike are the worst, while Smashboards believes it to be Robin.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[A2ZOMG]

I was just wondering what the Serenes Forest community thinks of the Fire Emblem characters SSB4, specifically how they fare in its competitive environment. I originally created this topic on GameFAQs about a week ago to see their opinions, and Roy won the poll for best FE character by a landslide. Of course, it is possible that the initial hype from his announcement may have impacted the results, but who knows if he may end up actually being very good.

The metagame is changing rapidly. Now, with Roy's inclusion and another balance update, where do you guys believe they all currently stand from best to worst? Which of the five do you predict will rank highest on the tier list? Lowest? I would be very interested to hear your reasoning as well.

For me, personally...

Marth ≥ Ike > Roy >>> Lucina ≥ Robin

Marth: His tippers are still deadly, especially with rage. Dancing Blade being more reliable as of the 1.0.6. update is also something to be feared. Buffs to Jab, U-tilt, and N-air help his ground and spacing game considerably; furthermore, the knockback buff to Dolphin Slash make it a better OoS option.

Ike: The buff to F-air makes it nearly reminiscent of SSBB F-air, where the hitboxes now match the entire animation of the swing, allowing it to hit foes directly above and below him better. Dash Attack also received a massive buff, being both faster and stronger, which can finally be used to kill and punish much more effectively. I think it is also worth mentioning that his Counter received a knockback buff in 1.0.6.; this buff went unnoticed for a long time until shortly after 1.0.8. was released, interestingly.

Roy: Although it hasn't even been a month and that his metagame is still young, I could see potential in him. He is quite fun to use. I noticed many have quickly labeled him as the best FE character shortly after his release, even going as far to say he ranks among the Top 15 of the cast. There is certainly much less of a gap in viability, compared to his Melee counterpart; however, I am not yet convinced he is the best of the FE group, let alone a candidate for high tier, especially since he is competing against the likes of buffed Marth and buffed Ike. Some of his attacks have shorter range than Marth's due to the reverse grip. Blazer is an amazing OoS option, but a mediocre recovery. His Counter is the strongest in the game, considering non-customs, with a 1.35x damage multiplier; that is even more powerful than Shulk's Vision. I find Roy particularly lacking in the short-hop auto-cancel department. Being required to always be in his opponent's face to maximize damage makes him a very high-risk, high-reward type character.

Lucina: Much like Marth, the buffs improve her ground game. The damage buffs from the previous update were nice, but she remains an inferior version of her male counterpart as she lacks any reward for good spacing.

Robin: I am sure his potential is yet to be fully realized and that he can be deadly in the right hands. Don't get me wrong. Even though I have placed him last, I think he is decent for the fact that he has a projectile game as well as devastating Levin aerials and smashes. His lack of buffs in the recent update is just depressing. He seems to have fallen behind now that his fellow FE co-stars were heavily buffed.

With Roy's appearance in SSB4, along with the 1.0.8. update, I doubt the FE characters would continue to be grouped at the very bottom together in future tier lists. Fire Emblem is on the rise! ^-^

I agree with most of this post except I personally think Ike is better than Marth, if marginally.

There's honestly not much reason to play Roy when Ike exists imo. Ike's close range and negative state are both better than Roy's, and Roy fundamentally has to make a guess to kill someone (even if his mixup game is very strong), while Ike has legitimate KO confirm combos out of throw. Roy is very slightly more versatile in midrange due to his mobility and faster aerials, but his hitlag modifiers make him deceptively unsafe.

Marth is pretty solid, but overall I put more weight on Ike's really strong grab game and general damage output compared to Marth's edgeguards and Jab game.

And wtf at people saying Lucina is worse than Robin. Lucina doesn't have any of Robin's extremely glaring weaknesses. Her negative state and midrange options are about the same as Marth's, so she doesn't really suffer from anything crippling, while Robin has nearly Bowser tier bad options for recovery and getting out of juggles. Plus Robin suffers from that problem where he fundamentally has trouble actually hurting you if you don't commit outside of his sword range, making him very vulnerable to being baited.

Edited July 2, 2015 by A2ZOMG

[Anacybele]

All the more reason to buff Ike even further! Remember the "better nerf Greninja" meme? Looks like there should be one for Ike, too. lol. "better buff Ike" ^-^

Comet is right, though. Any community outside of the competitive section of Smashboards are not really the most competitively informed. It is interesting to see what every forum community thinks of these characters, though. Both Serenes Forest and GameFAQs. for instance, seem to agree Lucina and Ike are the worst, while Smashboards believes it to be Robin.

Haha, that would indeed be a funny meme because Ike is actually literally buff. XD

You're right though, I forgot that some people here are probably not informed enough. :P

[Vajra]

I agree with most of this post except I personally think Ike is better than Marth, if marginally.

There's honestly not much reason to play Roy when Ike exists imo. Ike's close range and negative state are both better than Roy's, and Roy fundamentally has to make a guess to kill someone (even if his mixup game is very strong), while Ike has legitimate KO confirm combos out of throw. Roy is very slightly more versatile in midrange due to his mobility and faster aerials, but his hitlag modifiers make him deceptively unsafe.

Marth is pretty solid, but overall I put more weight on Ike's really strong grab game and general damage output compared to Marth's edgeguards and Jab game.

And wtf at people saying Lucina is worse than Robin. Lucina doesn't have any of Robin's extremely glaring weaknesses. Her negative state and midrange options are about the same as Marth's, so she doesn't really suffer from anything crippling, while Robin has nearly Bowser tier bad options for recovery and getting out of juggles. Plus Robin suffers from that problem where he fundamentally has trouble actually hurting you if you don't commit outside of his sword range, making him very vulnerable to being baited.

Glad to see that you post here as well, A2. I remember reading many of your posts in the Smashboards competitive forums. ^-^

I see that you also do not think of Roy as the best. Curious, where do you personally see Roy in the next couple of months as the metagame continues to develop?

Edited July 2, 2015 by Xuan Wu