JayTheKing Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 So in the Femui support with Shara,Shara says that see can see in the future 2 dragons and some other stuff which she interprets as a meeting with Femui in the future.(FeMU-Tharja) Then Owain/Lazward supports reveal us that in the future they killed Grima.Since Tharja and Owain are from the same era we can easily say that Fates is prequel to Awakening(in different worlds) BUT in the Shara/Mamui support Shara says that she fell in love with the Avatar in first sight because she reminded her oh her loved one who she couldnt reach in any world. I interpret the last one in 2 different ways:1)In every single life Shara has been reincarnated into she has been trying to be together with Avatar but she was unsuccessful and Tharja later might or might not continue the tradition. 2)Tharja desperately tried to find a way to be together with Robin forever(which is also what the ending in Awakening says if she isnt married or married to Kellam).So she ended up casting a hex(as Tharja)which would result in her reincarnation as Shara Which interpretation is correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 No idea, either way Fates has made an absolute mess of the timeline. Its kinda funny, Awakening, which actually involved time travel, managed to keep things far more coherent then this.Then every single attempt Fates has made to try and explain the Awakening look-a-likes and the three direct carryovers has made everything a million times more complicated. So yeah,I have no idea which is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) From what I can tell, either 1: We just got confused 2: Someone (or more than just one person) is lying, for miscellaneous reasons, intentionally 3: Characters forgot 4: Errors in programming, etc 5: Writing Clash 6: They Retconned it 7: They just didn't care Either way, we all know they're trying to milk awakening (of sorts, cash in, whatever term you want) by throwing in all the callbacks The fact that Shara's dialogue is reminiscent of Chuunibyou style dialogue also makes me.......and to think I usually have no problem with Chuunibyou Dialogue Edited July 1, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinehollow Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well,if you notice,all the Awakening look-a-likes are the most popular characters in Awakening.That is mostly because of personality.So,they may have just made her like Tharja in personality,and not Tharja reincarnated. I hope that makes some sense.It barely made any to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well,if you notice,all the Awakening look-a-likes are the most popular characters in Awakening.That is mostly because of personality.So,they may have just made her like Tharja in personality,and not Tharja reincarnated. I hope that makes some sense.It barely made any to me. Oh, I would prefer it if they were characters who just happened to look and act like their counterparts from Awakening. The problem is that the supports make a mess of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyan Surr Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 But if Odin is Owain, Lazward is Inigo and Luna is Severa as it was confirmed in some support conversations etc. How can this be before Awakening? Is it me or it makes no sense at all? Even tought Odin and Lawzard say they will kill Grima in the future... mind blow (and btw how they know they will kill Grima? D: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) But if Odin is Owain, Lazward is Inigo and Luna is Severa as it was confirmed in some support conversations etc. How can this be before Awakening? Is it me or it makes no sense at all? Even tought Odin and Lawzard say they will kill Grima in the future... mind blow (and btw how they know they will kill Grima? D: ) They said that they killed Grima in the future... and Owain refers to the First Exalt killing Grima the first time as being in the "Far Future" when talking to his daughter. But how the heck to time work reletive to Awakening when this is entirely a different universe. Is there even a one-one past and present? IS, stop it, please stop, none of this makes any sense! Why is it that the game that involved no time travel in its plot actually creates a bigger timeline/'time travel mess than the game that actually had time travel in it? Like, Awakening's made sense and dodged all sorta of causality issues/paradoxes. Edited July 1, 2015 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMblum Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) They said that they killed Grima in the future... and Owain refers to the First Exalt killing Grima the first time as being in the "Far Future" when talking to his daughter. But how the heck to time work reletive to Awakening when this is entirely a different universe. Is there even a one-one past and present? IS, stop it, please stop, none of this makes any sense! Why is it that the game that involved no time travel in its plot actually creates a bigger timeline/'time travel mess than the game that actually had time travel in it? Like, Awakening's made sense and dodged all sorta of causality issues/paradoxes. Given the multiverse aspect, whose to say that even though Fates is before Awakening, that Awakening is even the future of Fates? It's possible this game took place in a past that leads to a future where Awakening doesn't even happen. Or furthermore, even if this game took place in the same 'world' (planet sense not universe) as Awakening, its past might have been different from Awakening's as well. So if you're going by dates, although Fates is before Awakening, there could have been a split much much earlier before even Fates that caused a branch. What you get is a Universe where Fates takes place before Awakening with regards to the date, but Awakening will never actually happen in this universe's future. With Awakening, it happens at a much further date than Fates, but the events of Fates doesn't exist in its history. Fates would still technically take place before Awakening, but the two games are unique instances in the two universes that formed from the split. The only link between the two being the Outrealms, where's it's possible to revisit history that 'never happened' in the perspective of the time traveler. Or in short, alternate histories that lead to alternate futures. What Odin says doesn't even have to relate to the Awakening that we played, nor to Fates' actual future. Aaaaand my brain's melting. Edited July 1, 2015 by FireMblum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorie Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Given the multiverse aspect... my brain's melting. ^What this guy said. My theory is that they came from the desicrated-future-type timeline from Awakening, went back to the in-game timeline, but were unable to save the world from it's fate and had to flee or be hunted down by Grima and his followers, who now knew them as a threat. (aka all those lunatic+ gameovers lol) Hence the abandoning of their names and heritage. However, they still hope to go back someday and perhaps rescue the ones left behind by slaying Grima. Only one wielding falchion can do that, so perhaps their Lucina still lives in another realm, or perhaps they hope Owain or his daughter can wield it due to their lineage. Unless I hear otherwise, das mah brain-canon. Edited July 1, 2015 by Tigerpanda13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ^What this guy said. My theory is that they came from the desicrated-future-type timeline from Awakening, went back to the in-game timeline, but were unable to save the world from it's fate and had to flee or be hunted down by Grima and his followers, who now knew them as a threat. (aka all those lunatic+ gameovers lol) Hence the abandoning of their names and heritage. However, they still hope to go back someday and perhaps rescue the ones left behind by slaying Grima. Only one wielding falchion can do that, so perhaps their Lucina still lives in another realm, or perhaps they hope Owain or his daughter can wield it due to their lineage. Unless I hear otherwise, das mah brain-canon. Except they mention killing Grima in one of the supports... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorie Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Except they mention killing Grima in one of the supports... Gah! I hadn't read that! I'm trying to avoid reading as many of the supports as I can so I don't spoil myself too bad. So OP, did you mean that Awakening could be seen as a prequel to Fates? That would make a whole lot more sense. Plus, who says reincarnation only goes in one direction in time? If it's real, I bet reincarnation works forwards, backwards, and parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Sharja is the problem. The three ACTUAL Awakening peeps are just fine. They make sense-- they know they're not in the same world. But as Awakening did, it's the Everett interpretation: time travel is just dimension shifting. Owain, Severa, and Inigo left Ylisse after the game's end, and went by outrealm gate. Odin/Luna/Razwald are literally them. They're the same character-- like Zeke and Sirius is Camus. Where and WHEN they end up is such-- just so happens Fates is a different world in the past. Owain's mention of the "Holy Emperor" could refer to the first Exalt or Chrom. His mention of the two heroes who saved him are defintely his parents. Those events will come to pass. But Sharja being a reincarnation of Tharja literally throws a wrench in the issue... ...That said, Ending 3 pushes Kamui/Aqua pretty hard from what can be seen and that creates a problem, now doesn't it? If Male Kamui/Aqua happens... then some kid don't exist... If Sharja don't exist, no problem. [Not saying the kids aren't a problem naturally in this game's narrative. I mean, really do you expect the likes of Owain, Inigo, and Severa to really stick their kids into a Hyperbolic Time Chamber after what happened to them?!] Edited July 2, 2015 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaede Ryusaki Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 They said that they killed Grima in the future... and Owain refers to the First Exalt killing Grima the first time as being in the "Far Future" when talking to his daughter. But how the heck to time work reletive to Awakening when this is entirely a different universe. Is there even a one-one past and present? IS, stop it, please stop, none of this makes any sense! Why is it that the game that involved no time travel in its plot actually creates a bigger timeline/'time travel mess than the game that actually had time travel in it? Like, Awakening's made sense and dodged all sorta of causality issues/paradoxes. My take on it is that post awakening, Inigo & co. (for whatever reason) go back in time via outrealm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sharja is the problem. The three ACTUAL Awakening peeps are just fine. They make sense-- they know they're not in the same world. But as Awakening did, it's the Everett interpretation: time travel is just dimension shifting. Owain, Severa, and Inigo left Ylisse after the game's end, and went by outrealm gate. Odin/Luna/Razwald are literally them. They're the same character-- like Zeke and Sirius is Camus. Where and WHEN they end up is such-- just so happens Fates is a different world in the past. Owain's mention of the "Holy Emperor" could refer to the first Exalt or Chrom. His mention of the two heroes who saved him are defintely his parents. Those events will come to pass. But Sharja being a reincarnation of Tharja literally throws a wrench in the issue... ...That said, Ending 3 pushes Kamui/Aqua pretty hard from what can be seen and that creates a problem, now doesn't it? If Male Kamui/Aqua happens... then some kid don't exist... If Sharja don't exist, no problem. [Not saying the kids aren't a problem naturally in this game's narrative. I mean, really do you expect the likes of Owain, Inigo, and Severa to really stick their kids into a Hyperbolic Time Chamber after what happened to them?!] Does it make sense for ANY of the characters to throw their kids in the "Hyperebola Rhyme Chamber" (+1 internets for who gets the reference)? Seriously, worst parents ever. I mean, the main problem is with Inigo, Severa, and Owain is that they sunk a ton of ships. Heck, they sunk EVERY ship for Olivia and Cordelia, since both have haircolors that they physically cannot get (Robin can get them the closest, but not exactly). But yeah, I agree the not!Tharja stuff is the source of the real problems. (Also, I am biased in that I care a bit less about the sunken ships, as I am just happy Fates has yet to sink Robin x Lucina. And hopefully won't) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrophys Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 They didn't sink ANY ships because the already established mechanics of Awakening have already explicitly showed there to be multiple independent versions of the Awakening world. Any given player with the base game + DLC knows of a bare minimum of three: the main game, the bad future the kids came from, and the Future Past world. Add onto that the point that we could consider each individual's player world to be separate as well…. In other words, the fact that these particular versions of Inigo, Severa, and Owain don't correspond to existing ships in no way sinks said ships, as the ships do exist in Awakening universes…. just not the ones that these versions of them came from. Many worlds…. Basically, there can be a different Awakening for each different outcome and combination, a multitude of possibilities… Actually, I prefer it this way in some of these kid's cases… In Birthright, it seems that Inigo/Lazward gets killed while fighting alongside Marx. But if he's not the same Inigo as the one that I played with, its slightly less of a punch in the gut to me…. it still is quite unpleasant, but not nearly as upsetting as if it had been explicitly the one that I actually played with. So indeed, I much prefer him being an alternate Inigo rather than the one that I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Does it make sense for ANY of the characters to throw their kids in the "Hyperebola Rhyme Chamber" (+1 internets for who gets the reference)? Seriously, worst parents ever. I mean, the main problem is with Inigo, Severa, and Owain is that they sunk a ton of ships. Heck, they sunk EVERY ship for Olivia and Cordelia, since both have haircolors that they physically cannot get (Robin can get them the closest, but not exactly). But yeah, I agree the not!Tharja stuff is the source of the real problems. (Also, I am biased in that I care a bit less about the sunken ships, as I am just happy Fates has yet to sink Robin x Lucina. And hopefully won't) They're using the defaults, so the hair colors are irrelevant. The air fleet coming through isn't very meaningful. Only ships torped here are those for Inigo, Severa, and Owain themselves. And if the implications of Shajra mean anything, Robin/Tharja got torped too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTheKing Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Another problem I just noticed is with Owain.While he says the first exalt killed grima in the future he also says that a princess didn't manage to get the exalt brand appear on her(aka Lissa). The first exalt was before lissa yet he uses future tense for the exalt and past for lissa. Also the hair colors don't mean much because they are the official artwork ones(Which depict other characters with impossible colors) And yes it makes sense to me that reincarnation could happen in either direction.The problem is that 1) and 2) contradict a lot yet therey are both possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) And if the implications of Shajra mean anything, Robin/Tharja got torped too. So nothing of value was lost? Again, as long as I get to keep my Robcina ship untouched, I am good. The air fleet coming through isn't very meaningful. ??? What does this mean exactly, I am just confused Edited July 2, 2015 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB8 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Trying to solve this puzzle will solves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) So nothing of value was lost? Again, as long as I get to keep my Robcina ship untouched, I am good. ??? What does this mean exactly, I am just confused Basically that. As far as air fleet goes, anyone knows the bane of ships are large amounts of aircraft-- as Hotel Yamato learned first hand in Ten-go. Air Fleets sink ships. They're like loose lips. Here, it came through again, kinda like it did in Radiant Dawn, sank a few ships and didn't do a whole lot of damage. [Tellius on the other hand is the Iron Bottom Sound] (The mighty Canon Air Fleet came in Awakening, and just bombed/torpedoed Ike/Soren. Guess that's Ten-go) </Naval Things> </boats> KILL ZUIKAKU! Edited July 2, 2015 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty_Handsome Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 They didn't sink ANY ships because the already established mechanics of Awakening have already explicitly showed there to be multiple independent versions of the Awakening world. Any given player with the base game + DLC knows of a bare minimum of three: the main game, the bad future the kids came from, and the Future Past world. Add onto that the point that we could consider each individual's player world to be separate as well…. In other words, the fact that these particular versions of Inigo, Severa, and Owain don't correspond to existing ships in no way sinks said ships, as the ships do exist in Awakening universes…. just not the ones that these versions of them came from. Many worlds…. Basically, there can be a different Awakening for each different outcome and combination, a multitude of possibilities… Actually, I prefer it this way in some of these kid's cases… In Birthright, it seems that Inigo/Lazward gets killed while fighting alongside Marx. But if he's not the same Inigo as the one that I played with, its slightly less of a punch in the gut to me…. it still is quite unpleasant, but not nearly as upsetting as if it had been explicitly the one that I actually played with. So indeed, I much prefer him being an alternate Inigo rather than the one that I had. You mean 4 as Morgan is from his/her own timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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