Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

[Damosel]

How do people feel about swearing in a Fire Emblem game/fanfiction? I know the games proper are generally pretty PG as far as language goes but at times I feel swear words could be used to better emphasize a characters lines. I mean, I don't think it should be as gritty and modern sounding as the language in Game of Thrones but something more mature than "Moldy onions!

Would "bitch", "bastard", "shit" sound out of place? What is the most extreme language that has been used in the games?

Personally the use of "bastard" in FE fanfiction tends to be in the modern sense- instead of the more literal sense which I think this era would use the term in, as in you're legitimate and have no chance at inheritance or succession (rather than being solely a slur against one's character). Honestly I think if they were trying to to go for an insult firstmost it'd probably be "whoreson" rather than "bastard", if you're going with the strong swear route. As for "bitch" don't limit it to just that, as other animal-equivalent insults were used such as "broodmare", "cow", and "shrew". And of course there's always "hag" to insult beauty/age, and the thousands of insults toward a woman's sexual activity.

Though I think the Fates fan translations use of insults like "cur", "mongrel", and the like do just fine for giving period appropriate insults without needing to bump up rating. Similar insults are "craven", "blackguard", "whelp", "fool-born", "halfwit", "wretch", and "harlot".

Titles and honorifics are tricky because FE games have their "Lords" where being the lord is their thing, and depending on the game and character sometimes deferential language was used or not. FE4 has quite a bit of variation, considering over half the cast were princess/princes/titled. In Fates there's quite a few characters from noble families (Kazahana, Hinata, Orochi, Joker, Cyrus, Pieri) who don't seem to be addressed by whatever title their family holds. I kinda assume it's because of writer laziness as well as the Lord mechanic in FE games. So just use your best judgement, in more formal situations their title would likely come up, but just between friends maybe not?

[Alazen]

Alright, here are some directionsuggestions for Kamui's character.

Hoshido: Seeing how low his position is in Nohr, Kamui joins Hoshido after being told he'll be granted lands and his place in the order of succession.

Nohr: Kamui resolves to bring glory to Nohr’s royal house.

3rd: Thanks to a freak accident, Kamui falls into the chasm, enabling Hydra to insert his oversoul into Kamui. She finds herself in Touma, where Lilith sees her and immediately figures she's Sumeragi and Mikoto's child. Lilith brings Kamui over to where the gestalt of souls called Hydra is. Kamui is informed that Hydra is a benevolent god seeking to bring order to a chaotic world. Having Hydra's oversoul (which lowers her inhibition) and impressed by the power of Touma, Kamui agrees.

[Gomez_Addams]

Alright, here are some directionsuggestions for Kamui's character.

Hoshido: Seeing how low his position is in Nohr, Kamui joins Hoshido after being told he'll be granted lands and his place in the order of succession.

So, you intend to make Kamui a completely unsympathetic asshole?

[Yari]

So, you intend to make Kamui a completely unsympathetic asshole?

I sometimes thinks that's his intend. But this ideas could work with enough character development that ends with Kamui learning to be nicer. I won't follow any of his ideas because it goes against the personality I gave my Kamuis. So in the end it depends on the Kamui and what the writer does.

[Alazen]

Think of it as Kamui being a weak person. At least early on.

[Yari]

Think of it as Kamui being a weak person. At least early on.

There are other ways of making a character be a "weak" person. But as I said it depends on the writer. It's your idea not mine. I don't really think your ideas are suited for a "weak" person but you're not me and I do think it's interesting.

[Damosel]

So in my AU I gave Touma the axe to get those characters and Hydra out of my hair. But now I'm trying to figure out...if it might be salvageable.

I’m wondering if I might be able to incorporate Touma in some kingdom-long-past way… It’s tricky though cause I assume it existed where the Chasm is now- so does that mean it’s the Atlantis of that world? Only instead of sinking into the ocean, the ground opened up and swallowed it in a catastrophic event a la Pompeii?

In a strictly no-mad-dragon-gods and no-magic-portal light, Touma would either be this hazy told-of-in-legend place, OR that one past kingdom everyone knows about cause of how they were so spectacularly destroyed (and well no one could claim their land/stuff as it sank into the earth).

In game canon there’s the problem of the Fight Club curse, and the fact that if Touma ever existed alongside the rest of the kingdoms at one time- by the time of the game they’ve been forgotten, magically or otherwise. So there’s not much canon on how Touma’s past/how they interacted with other kingdoms pre-monster spawn.

Eh...dunno if it's worth mulling over or not (though it'd be nice to have another culture other than not!Europe vs. not!Japan).

[Sunwoo]

I have some ideas I could share with you, Damosel, but I don't particularly feel like clogging up this thread anymore. PM me if you want, I suppose.

[Alazen]

I've thought of spinning Touma as a kingdom of the dead, formed through an Aztec style mass sacrifice with Hydra serving as the gestalt for their souls while the surviving humans were used to form an all-purpose priesthoods. With the souls taken, the dead can be directed as puppets when needed.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Alazen

[Time the Crestfallen]

Quick question; do you guys think it would be better if Kamui wasn't the protagonist, but rather a supporting character to someone else like Robin was to Chrom?

[NekoKnight]

Quick question; do you guys think it would be better if Kamui wasn't the protagonist, but rather a supporting character to someone else like Robin was to Chrom?

I think it would be best to have them as a viewpoint character. They can be the protagonist in terms of seeing the world through their eyes but not the most important or influential individual in the story. I'm thinking more Van* to Ashe (FF12) than Robin to Chrom.

*Except unlike Van, he'd actually have a reason to be in the story, albeit less important than the 'main character'.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think it would be best to have them as a viewpoint character. They can be the protagonist in terms of seeing the world through their eyes but not the most important or influential individual in the story. I'm thinking more Van* to Ashe (FF12) than Robin to Chrom.

*Except unlike Van, he'd actually have a reason to be in the story, albeit less important than the 'main character'.

Yeah, that's what I meant; Robin was the protagonist because we experience the game through them, but Chrom was (until the last few chapters at least) the more important character in the story, and would've been if the 'sacrifice' option hadn't been introduced. The question however, is how do we go about reducing Kamui's importance to the story? It's easy enough to make the world not revolve around them, but they still wind up with the Magical Sword of Plot Importance. Would it be a good idea if someone else was given the Yato?

Edited October 5, 2015 by Phillius

[JupiterKnight]

Lilith could reveal their connection to Hydra, or actually have the Awakening Kids do what they were sent there for. As I recall right Good!Anankos does exist in the backstory you made until he got replaced with the Sociopath one.

Edited October 5, 2015 by JupiterKnight

[NekoKnight]

Yeah, that's what I meant; Robin was the protagonist because we experiencehe game through them, but Chrom was (until the last few chapters at least) the more important character in the story, and would've been if the 'sacrifice' option hadn't been introduced. The question however, is how do we go about reducing Kamui's importance to the story? It's easy enough to make the world not revolve around them, but they still wind up with the Magical Sword of Plot Importance. Would it be a good idea if someone else was given the Yato?

I can't help you as much there because the 3rd route and the 'man behind the man' plot heavily ties Kamui to the center of the conflict. It easy enough if you cut the 3rd route out, however. In that case, Kamui is just a young lord who got caught up in the political intrigues of a ruthless king.

Does anyone really need a Sword of Plot Importance or to be the chosen one? Marx is important because he's the crown prince of Nohr, not because a sword told him he was important.

[JupiterKnight]

Marx/Ryoma are also chosen because they go meet up with the Rainbow Sage as well. Same for Sumeragi/Garon in the past. Plus some knight whose name is never mentioned.

[NekoKnight]

They got special weapons...or something but that doesn't mean the plot revolves around them for that reason alone. My point is that influential characters should only be so important to the story for as much as their position in society or their individual power allows. "I'm important because I'm the chosen one" is just lazy writing.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Lilith could reveal their connection to Hydra, or actually have the Awakening Kids do what they were sent there for. As I recall right Good!Anankos does exist in the backstory you made until he got replaced with the Sociopath one.

All three of those are definitely going to happen. And yes, good!Anankos did exist, although his sociopathic version is what happens when his insane half is the dominant personality rather than his good side.

They got special weapons...or something but that doesn't mean the plot revolves around them for that reason alone. My point is that influential characters should only be so important to the story for as much as their position in society or their individual power allows. "I'm important because I'm the chosen one" is just lazy writing.

It's not necessarily about the 'prophecy' thing, but more about the fact that the Yato apparently chooses who can wield it and while my take on Kamui can qualify, he's got a few nagging injuries (he needs a knee brace for his right leg for example) and his mental/emotional health is of...questionable stability to put it lightly, so he might not be the best option for the sword to 'choose'.

[NekoKnight]

All three of those are definitely going to happen. And yes, good!Anankos did exist, although his sociopathic version is what happens when his insane half is the dominant personality rather than his good side.

It's not necessarily about the 'prophecy' thing, but more about the fact that the Yato apparently chooses who can wield it and while my take on Kamui can qualify, he's got a few nagging injuries (he needs a knee brace for his right leg for example) and his mental/emotional health is of...questionable stability to put it lightly, so he might not be the best option for the sword to 'choose'.

What is the knee brace for?

I know you want to keep as much of the original elements in the story as possible, but what purpose does the Yato choosing its wielder have for the story? Does it push a specific (and significant) plot-line forward or is it just to mark the protagonist as being special? If it's the latter case (just as the Yato was to Kamui for Conquest and Birthright), then I'd suggest cutting it.

I think it will just be passing the "needlessly special" torch if the Yato is given to another. Call it a pet peeve, but there are very few instances of destiny/prophesy that I approve of.

[Time the Crestfallen]

What is the knee brace for?

I know you want to keep as much of the original elements in the story as possible, but what purpose does the Yato choosing its wielder have for the story? Does it push a specific (and significant) plot-line forward or is it just to mark the protagonist as being special? If it's the latter case (just as the Yato was to Kamui for Conquest and Birthright), then I'd suggest cutting it.

I think it will just be passing the "needlessly special" torch if the Yato is given to another. Call it a pet peeve, but there are very few instances of destiny/prophesy that I approve of.

[spoiler=Yato]

The significance of the Yato choosing it's wielder is that it's tied to the Royal Family of Touma (to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands) and, more specifically, Anankos' blood. Since the original Touman Ruler and Kamui were subjected to the magical/dragon equivalent of Mitochondrial Donating, the only two people who can use it would be Azura and Kamui, which raises the question of 'why them' considering that its reputation as the 'Holy Blade of Hoshido'. While either of them (depending on who gets 'chosen') would be able to use it in an emergency, their siblings wouldn't be able to, which raises some questions for Kamui when (for example, Xander wants to admire the blade or one of the others picks it up in a dangerous situation) one of their siblings picks it up and is unable to use it. Mikoto (yes, she lives in my rewrite) could try to excuse it with 'it only works if your dragon's blood is above a certain level of purity', but then Kamui would ask whu she didn't mention that in the first place.

tl;dr- It foreshadows Kamui's connection to Anankos so that it doesn't feel like as much of an asspull.

[spoiler=Injuries]

In terms of how the rewrite works, it balances him out compared to his siblings. I was a little perplexed when Garon in the English Translations said that Dragon's Vein allows the royal family to easily defeat entire groups of normal soldiers, especially considering that they never use it offensively. So I have a head-cannon that when a hybrid first 'awakens' their Dragon Blood, it increases their strength/speed/stamina/ETC as well as increasing their lifespan and slowing their ageing in proportion to how 'pure' their blood is (and since the Dragon's Vein and all the things that tie into it are dominant genes, so it dilutes very slowly). Garon for example, is the thirtieth generation of the Nohrian Hybrids (over a period of somewhere between 20,000-40,000 years of history) and is around 350 years old by the time he has Sumeragi killed. As a consequence, Kamui would be ludicrously overpowered compared to his siblings, so he has his physical power limited by different impairments (his bad knee messes with his speed and agility for example). His Dragon's Vein is ludicrously strong, but he doesn't use it much because he can't adequately control how much power he puts into it i.e. either nowhere near enough for a given situation or way too much.

Anyway, the knee brace is there because one of the injuries he sustained when he injured his knee was a torn ACL (which don't heal naturally) and it's part of my head-canon that high-level healing magic is scarce (especially in Nohr) and considered the magical equivalent of emergency surgery. So when he injured his knee, the healers had the choice of healing him all the way and having less high-level magic for when someone is potentially fatally injured (a very real risk/danger considering Nohr's training methods) or using less rare staves to mostly heal the damage and let him wear a knee brace to walk/run properly.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Phillius

[JupiterKnight]

The long lived part does make sense. Hydra mentions how his blood grants longevity to others if I recall right. Explains why Mikoto looks so young.

Edited October 5, 2015 by JupiterKnight

[Alazen]

Getting back to what I posted about Kamui, I can see him as an interesting character but largely by playing him as more ''shady'' or ''loserish'' than what Fates actually went with. That might not be what IS intended, but I say it could work.

IS apparently wants us to see Kamui as this magically charismatic paragon, but their attempt is damn clumsy (Dear Developers: Making every leader of a nation who doesn't side with the Avatar in his rebellion a cartoon villain is not how you do a nuanced conflict). If Kamui can still shapeshift you could play up the contrast between this frightening power he has and the weakness of his character. Picture Kamui as not just a loser, but a loser with godlike power (and how dangerous of a combination that is).

Edited October 6, 2015 by Alazen

[Time the Crestfallen]

Getting back to what I posted about Kamui, I can see him as an interesting character but largely by playing him as more ''shady'' or ''loserish'' than what Fates actually went with. That might not be what IS intended, but I say it could work.

IS apparently wants us to see Kamui as this magically charismatic paragon, but their attempt is damn clumsy (Dear Developers: Making every leader of a nation who doesn't side with the Avatar in his rebellion a cartoon villain is not how you do a nuanced conflict). If Kamui can still shapeshift you could play up the contrast between this frightening power he has and the weakness of his character. Picture Kamui as not just a loser, but a loser with godlike power (and how dangerous of a combination that is).

The idea has a lot of potential, but moderation is key. IS went to far in making Kamui seem important to the point that the whole world revolves around him, but the risk with your image of Kamui is going to far in the opposite direction i.e. there is a difference between a compelling character with a lot of flaws and a character who's just flat-out unlikeable. Could you maybe elaborate on what you mean by 'shady' and 'loserish' and consider listing some of his/her positive qualities?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Phillius

[Alazen]

Well first off, I'm going with the angle that Garon never really bothered to treat Kamui as if he was one of his own children while still not having Fake Garon. Sure, his highness wasn't going around punching the tears out Kamui but Garon was the one who had Kamui taken after Sumeragi's assassination. Garon had Kamui kept in a position for him to be influenced by himself, his actual children, and subordinates while still ''keeping the brat in his place'' as one could call it. Whether it was telling Kamui sit at a separate table from the royal children or something else. It was whispered Kamui is a bastard child of Garon's, hence keeping him so close yet so distant.

Now, Nohr is a society like a Medieval European kingdom. With all the focus on bloodlines, status, and prestige you'd expect. Kamui would internalize quite a bit of it and be eagar for validation yet resent Garon for not recognizing him as the awesomeness that he surely is. By the time of the big choice, Kamui is in a dilemma between sticking with Nohr where he'll try to get validation by the likes of Garon and Marx or joining Hoshido with the thought of getting his birthright (while still carrying respect and/or jealously for Garon along with the older Nohr siblings).

[Gomez_Addams]

Well first off, I'm going with the angle that Garon never really bothered to treat Kamui as if he was one of his own children while still not having Fake Garon. Sure, his highness wasn't going around punching the tears out Kamui but Garon was the one who had Kamui taken after Sumeragi's assassination. Garon had Kamui kept in a position for him to be influenced by himself, his actual children, and subordinates while still ''keeping the brat in his place'' as one could call it. Whether it was telling Kamui sit at a separate table from the royal children or something else. It was whispered Kamui is a bastard child of Garon's, hence keeping him so close yet so distant.

Now, Nohr is a society like a Medieval European kingdom. With all the focus on bloodlines, status, and prestige you'd expect. Kamui would internalize quite a bit of it and be eagar for validation yet resent Garon for not recognizing him as the awesomeness that he surely is. By the time of the big choice, Kamui is in a dilemma between sticking with Nohr where he'll try to get validation by the likes of Garon and Marx or joining Hoshido with the thought of getting his birthright (while still carrying respect and/or jealously for Garon along with the older Nohr siblings).

So instead of the big choice being "Should I join the land of my birth, or remain in the land I was raised?" It's "Which side is gonna offer me more money and power?"

Not much of an improvement.

[Alazen]

In practice, the Big Choice of Fates is ''Stick with Invading War Crimes Happy Nohr VS Join Innocent Glorious NipponHoshido That Does Nothing Wrong''. I'm trying to get away from that.