Ike

[CGV]

Ike? He even weaker than Roy(and his sword)

You're kidding, right?

[DragonBladeSniper]

Ike? He even weaker than Roy(and his sword)

If Roy was in brawl we could prove the winner... But Roy 20/20 (very unlikely) with Sealed Sword (let's say infinite use) vs Ike 20/20 (VERY likely) with Ragnell it's kinda obvious that Ike would win.

ANYWAY YAY IKE!!!

[Swordsalmon]

I lol'd. I really did. Roy is easily the worst Lord ever. He promotes way too late to be useful at any point. You won't want to use him 75% of the time because he'll be 20. Ike is actually pretty useful, being that he's not unuseable 75% of the game. >_> You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Roy also is quite good against the Cavaliers in the early chapters, supports Lance and Alan, and is actually being on-par with most characters for a while. Waiting for promotion isn't a massive set back; he has only around 5-6 chapters being locked to level 20.

The worst Lord is easily Lyn. I haven't played FE10 yet, so not sure if Michaiah is any worse...

Edited October 7, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[Florete]

The worst Lord is easily Lyn. I haven't played FE10 yet, so not sure if Michaiah is any worse...

How can Lyn be worse than Roy? Lyn is pretty good in her story, a high enough level to be useful in E/H (especially on The Port of Badon) and can promote early enough to be more useful, even gaining another weapon to use (Even if you think Bows suck, it's still another option). Roy is good before promotion for a few chapters, but promotes on what could be the last chapter!

[Swordsalmon]

How can Lyn be worse than Roy? Lyn is pretty good in her story, a high enough level to be useful in E/H (especially on The Port of Badon) and can promote early enough to be more useful, even gaining another weapon to use (Even if you think Bows suck, it's still another option). Roy is good before promotion for a few chapters, but promotes on what could be the last chapter!

She's still incredibly frail upon joining, has unreliable supports (Eliwood, Hector, and Kent all have better options, Wil, Rath, and Wallace suck, and Florina might not be played), she promotes very late, as Eliwood makes better use of the Heaven Seal, and has pretty bad offense after the Mani Katti breaks.

Roy is actually benefitting two epic characters and has two Rapiers to take out Cavaliers.

[Florete]

She's still incredibly frail upon joining, has unreliable supports (Eliwood, Hector, and Kent all have better options, Wil, Rath, and Wallace suck, and Florina might not be played), she promotes very late, as Eliwood makes better use of the Heaven Seal, and has pretty bad offense after the Mani Katti breaks.

Roy is actually benefitting two epic characters and has two Rapiers to take out Cavaliers.

FlorinaXLyn is awesome, easily the best support for both. Each come early enough, and you can always choose to promote Lyn first, there's no proving that to be a bad idea. Her low defenses are amended by her awesome speed, her strength fixed by her support with Florina, which also gives her an awesome crit boost. If you end up with a Wo Dao, she'll easily go past 50 or 60 in the criticals department.

Even if she's promoted after Eliwood/Hector, she still has more fight time than Roy.

[Swordsalmon]

FlorinaXLyn is awesome, easily the best support for both. Each come early enough, and you can always choose to promote Lyn first, there's no proving that to be a bad idea. Her low defenses are amended by her awesome speed, her strength fixed by her support with Florina, which also gives her an awesome crit boost. If you end up with a Wo Dao, she'll easily go past 50 or 60 in the criticals department.

Even if she's promoted after Eliwood/Hector, she still has more fight time than Roy.

While FlorinaxLyn is fast, Florina might actually be better off with Fiora A. The chapters before have Florina using more flier utility, so supporting the two sisters is still fast and they'll always remain in range.

Elwood has greater stats then Lyn at level 20, so he's promoting first. Also, Lyn's good Speed doesn't equate to good Avoid; the multiple Lance users lower her durability greatly.

Roy has all but about six chapters to fight. Lyn rams her level and is useless for quite a while.

[Florete]

While FlorinaxLyn is fast, Florina might actually be better off with Fiora A. The chapters before have Florina using more flier utility, so supporting the two sisters is still fast and they'll always remain in range. Late game, that is just as good of a support, but that's also when it's less needed.

Elwood has greater stats then Lyn at level 20, so he's promoting first. Also, Lyn's good Speed doesn't equate to good Avoid; the multiple Lance users lower her durability greatly.

Roy has all but about six chapters to fight. Lyn rams her level and is useless for quite a while.

Unless you're playing hard mode (Which I know you always are, but not everyone is) you won't get another Elysian Whip for while, so using two fliers might not be in your best interest. FlorinaxLyn is the fastest support in the game, so it can have more use in the earlier, somewhat more difficult chapters.

That isn't definite. Anyone can choose to promote Lyn first, for any reason. And her good speed won't have her dodging all the lances, but you aren't having her fight an army of Knights, are you? Axe users aren't hitting her, like, ever, and most sword users will also have a tough time of it. Hell, even lances can have a problem, since Knights and Loldiers aren't the most accurate enemies.

Six? More like twelve. Even if Lyn is promoted second, she's doing better at that time than Roy is at his promotion time unless he's fed multiple kills.

[sandmanccl]

Ike is indeed one of the better characters in the game, but he's disgustingly overrated. For most the game, he's only average in offense and defense, not a huge benefit, but not a hindrance. Ike is only above-average after promotion, where he can use Iron Blades without AS loss.

Not an excellent character, but good enough. Though Ike's much worse without Oscar A.

No such thing as an overrated main character because you WILL use them. Ike happens to hold his own (unlike Eliwood), so therefore he's great.

Ike + Soren = the hurt. Plus, it gives you plenty of avoid anyway. I don't like Oscar so that support never happens, and it's also pretty unnecessary because what's +9000 avoid when even on the rare occasions you get hit, you don't take much damage anyway? Oscar is better off giving his avoid bonus to Kieran, in my exceedingly unhumble opinion. Ike can go supportless for a long time, as well, because he has late-game options in Reyson and Elincia, both of which build up really, really fast.

I also know you aren't a fan of Soren because you say Ilyana is better. I disagree, because Ilyana is SLOW. Her attack speed catches up eventually, but if you have Soren and Ike supporting each other, Soren offensively just blows her out of the water. Default adept? Good speed growths for a sage? Fantastic magic growth? Win all around, even with his two options for support.

[Swordsalmon]

Unless you're playing hard mode (Which I know you always are, but not everyone is) you won't get another Elysian Whip for while, so using two fliers might not be in your best interest. FlorinaxLyn is the fastest support in the game, so it can have more use in the earlier, somewhat more difficult chapters.

That isn't definite. Anyone can choose to promote Lyn first, for any reason. And her good speed won't have her dodging all the lances, but you aren't having her fight an army of Knights, are you? Axe users aren't hitting her, like, ever, and most sword users will also have a tough time of it. Hell, even lances can have a problem, since Knights and Loldiers aren't the most accurate enemies.

Six? More like twelve. Even if Lyn is promoted second, she's doing better at that time than Roy is at his promotion time unless he's fed multiple kills.

You get two Elysian Whips from Chapter 18 or 18x, and another at Chapter 21. There's no promotion issues for promoting Fiora. Also, there's a third at Chapter 25, which is still earlier than Lyn's promotion.

It's the fastest support in the game, but the bonuses are rather mediocre defensively and barely benefit Lyn.

Promoting Lyn first is a detriment to the team, as you're depriving Eliwood, a better character, of a promotion. She's not promoting first. Also, the fact that Lyn can't battle Lance users is a hindrance, because she won't be battling all the time. Axe users are fairly rare by mid-game, and most Sword users are Myrmidons and Mercenaries, all with high Hit on Lyn. Loldiers and Armour Knights have greater accuracy from WTA, and the latter get numerous.

Roy is at level 20 around...Chapter 16 or so. So only about seven chapters. And Roy is benefitting more with supports and decent early-game.

No such thing as an overrated main character because you WILL use them. Ike happens to hold his own (unlike Eliwood), so therefore he's great.

Ike + Soren = the hurt. Plus, it gives you plenty of avoid anyway. I don't like Oscar so that support never happens, and it's also pretty unnecessary because what's +9000 avoid when even on the rare occasions you get hit, you don't take much damage anyway? Oscar is better off giving his avoid bonus to Kieran, in my exceedingly unhumble opinion. Ike can go supportless for a long time, as well, because he has late-game options in Reyson and Elincia, both of which build up really, really fast.

I also know you aren't a fan of Soren because you say Ilyana is better. I disagree, because Ilyana is SLOW. Her attack speed catches up eventually, but if you have Soren and Ike supporting each other, Soren offensively just blows her out of the water. Default adept? Good speed growths for a sage? Fantastic magic growth? Win all around, even with his two options for support.

Except Eliwood is holding his own within a few levels. Ike is disgustingly overrated, as many hail him as the best Lord or even character ever.

OscarxIke is the fastest support in the game and gives the best bonuses. Especially during mid-game, where Ike needs alot of Avoid due to all the Lance users that three-round or so him. He then gets either Soren B or Titania B. Kieran gives Marcia an A support, then takes Oscar B. Regardless of supports, all the Paladins are pretty much immortal anyways. ^_^ Elincia is awful and Reyson has Tanith A, Tormod B.

20/5 Soren, B Ike, C Stefan

Elthunder- 28.7 atk, 16.3 AS, 136.7 hit, ~39.7 crit - - 61.5 avo, 32.4 hp, 7.4 def, 21.5 res

Thunder - 25.7 atk, 19.2 AS, 146.7 hit, ~35.7 crit - - 67.3 avo

20/5 Ilyana, B Mordecai, B Zihark

Elthunder- 26.0 atk, 16.4 AS, 139.3 hit, 19.8 crit - - 56.9 avo, 32.1 hp, 10.7 def, 24.0 res (Shade)

Thunder- 23.0 atk, 16.4 AS, 149.3 hit, 14.8 crit - - 56.9 avo

3 AS, ~16 crit (Adept)--or 3 atk and 20 crit when needed--, and 10-11 avo

vs 3 def and Shade

or if they're using a forged Thunder, Soren gets the 3 AS and the 3 atk at the same time, along with about 19-21 crit

So yeah...with best tomes, they're both about one-rounding whatever they double, as enemies have terrible Resistance. Where Soren is better, it's not by much. :/

[Florete]

You get two Elysian Whips from Chapter 18 or 18x, and another at Chapter 21. There's no promotion issues for promoting Fiora. Also, there's a third at Chapter 25, which is still earlier than Lyn's promotion.

It's the fastest support in the game, but the bonuses are rather mediocre defensively and barely benefit Lyn.

Promoting Lyn first is a detriment to the team, as you're depriving Eliwood, a better character, of a promotion. She's not promoting first. Also, the fact that Lyn can't battle Lance users is a hindrance, because she won't be battling all the time. Axe users are fairly rare by mid-game, and most Sword users are Myrmidons and Mercenaries, all with high Hit on Lyn. Loldiers and Armour Knights have greater accuracy from WTA, and the latter get numerous.

Roy is at level 20 around...Chapter 16 or so. So only about seven chapters. And Roy is benefitting more with supports and decent early-game.

That's why I mentioned hard modes...

She doesn't tend to need defense, she needs offense, which she's getting.

You can't just assume that. Plenty of people promote Lyn first. You can't just assume Eliwood will be promoted first. And what if you're in Eliwood's mode? What then? Lyn can battle lance users. Her avoid is good enough so that she shouldn't be hit too often, and when she is, she's healed. Loldiers and Knights initial hit is so laughably low that WTA is barely helping.

More like... 10. Okay, maybe that's a little early. 13-14 sounds more accurate. That's still plenty of downtime.

[sandmanccl]

OscarxIke is the fastest support in the game and gives the best bonuses. Especially during mid-game, where Ike needs alot of Avoid due to all the Lance users that three-round or so him. He then gets either Soren B or Titania B. Kieran gives Marcia an A support, then takes Oscar B. Regardless of supports, all the Paladins are pretty much immortal anyways. ^_^ Elincia is awful and Reyson has Tanith A, Tormod B.

Viable alternatives, friend. Both will get you to the same end result, which is beating the game with damn powerful units near untouchable by mortal hands.

Fastest support =/= best support. Ike's avoid doesn't really need helping, and mid-game, Ike will likely be level 20/-- and therefore can sit in the back of your army while the rest of your guys do the fighting seeing as his potential is capped until he promotes. Besides, you're an idiot if you're putting anyone in the range three units that could hurt him enough to kill him. This goes for every unit ever so saying it's a weakness of Ike that he can be killed in three hits when that can be said of just about everyone is just stupid.

Also, saying Reyson has Tanith A, Tormod B only means something if you use Reyson and Tanith. Tanith is kind of mediocre compared to other units you can have at equivalent level to her by the time she joins so she's not a definite MUST USE character. Tormod is a little better than Ilyana in my eyes because what he lacks in raw magic power, he makes up for in speed, but then again, she has the potential to be promoted by the time he joins or just about near to it that it'll take him a few maps to catch up, just to be a comparable unit. Basically, Reyson is always going to be used because strategic value > stats and he's all sorts of strategic, while Tanith is only going to be used if you didn't raise everyone in your army up to speed by the time she joins and Tormod is only going to be used if Ilyana took a nose-dive in stats. You're always going to use Ike. Ike with Soren A/Reyson B is a bad ass, by the way. He does incredible damage with Dark x3/Fire x2/Earth x5.

As I've said before, Oscar supports Kieran just fine, assuming you use both of them anyway. Oscar A/Marcia or Rhys B as perfectly fine as what you're outlining. Also: also, Ike is as immortal as any of the paladins.

Also, Elincia is not awful. You're trying to use her for something she's not intended for if you think she's awful. She flies and she heals and when she joins, the game basically gives you an extra spot for a unit that isn't filled yet because you only have roughly 10 guys leveled up to that point. Considering the biggest weakness of the staff users in the game is their lack of mobility (it takes FOREVER to get Mist up to speed without dumping lots of BEXP her way and Rhys doesn't have Canto, meaning it's a little more difficult to keep up with the rest of your team if you have to send a guy out of harm's way in order to get them healed), she's perfectly usable for what she's intended for. Strategic value > that unit's given stats. Besides, Elincia has pretty good stat gains so she can be raised into a fantastic unit with a little bit of babying.

Edited October 8, 2008 by sandmanccl

[Reikken]

20/5 Soren, B Ike, C Stefan

Elthunder- 28.7 atk, 16.3 AS, 136.7 hit, ~39.7 crit - - 61.5 avo, 32.4 hp, 7.4 def, 21.5 res

Thunder - 25.7 atk, 19.2 AS, 146.7 hit, ~35.7 crit - - 67.3 avo

20/5 Ilyana, B Mordecai, B Zihark

Elthunder- 26.0 atk, 16.4 AS, 139.3 hit, 19.8 crit - - 56.9 avo, 32.1 hp, 10.7 def, 24.0 res (Shade)

Thunder- 23.0 atk, 16.4 AS, 149.3 hit, 14.8 crit - - 56.9 avo

3 AS, ~16 crit (Adept)--or 3 atk and 20 crit when needed--, and 10-11 avo

vs 3 def and Shade

or if they're using a forged Thunder, Soren gets the 3 AS and the 3 atk at the same time, along with about 19-21 crit

So yeah...with best tomes, they're both about one-rounding whatever they double, as enemies have terrible Resistance. Where Soren is better, it's not by much. :/

Two examples

typical lv 1 warrior: 10 AS, 41 hp, 6 res

typical lv 1 paladin: 14 AS, 33 hp, 8 res

Ilyana has trouble getting enough power to kill warriors and enough spd to kill paladins, while Soren can one-round them with room to spare for a little RNG-screwage.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Reikken

[sandmanccl]

Don't forget that Soren has more early-game firepower than Ilyana simply because he's got Adept.

[Zanarkin]

He Rules

[Judge Judy]

How can Lyn be worse than Roy? Lyn is pretty good in her story, a high enough level to be useful in E/H (especially on The Port of Badon) and can promote early enough to be more useful, even gaining another weapon to use (Even if you think Bows suck, it's still another option). Roy is good before promotion for a few chapters, but promotes on what could be the last chapter!

Agreed. Roy just sucks in FE6, he is so boring and those conventional types of heroes.

Lyn has more of a fiery personality to her, as Roy is just a bland character.

And yes Lyn has an advantage over Roy, since she is promoted early in the game than Roy. Roy just needs too much babysitting.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Luxord

[Tino]

And yes Lyn has an advantage over Roy, since she is promoted early in the game than Roy. Roy just needs too much babysitting.

Lyn also has bad durability, almost no supports, and competes with a superior Eliwood for an early promotion.

Lyn is never really good, while Roy is actually good midgame, then is awesome endgame.

[Florete]

After seeing the Roy/Alan/Lance support triangle of uber-epic-amazing-awesomeness, I have much more respect for Roy as a playable character. But Lyn has never let me down, and seeing her support with Florina in action just makes her all the better. Tell me she sucks all you want, I'll never believe it.

[sandmanccl]

Lyn also has bad durability, almost no supports, and competes with a superior Eliwood for an early promotion.

Try to be objective here. Eliwood is hardly superior. He's not bad, but he's not good. His stats are very much like a typical cavalier with the disability of not being on a horse. Lyn's got utility before she gets promoted while Eliwood can't do anything well enough to make him very usable until he promotes.

Also, Lyn has plenty of supports and saying otherwise is kind of silly. Florina? Great character in her own right, fast support. Rath? One of the best hit and run units in the game, fairly fast support, awesome support bonuses for Lyn. Kent isn't bad as he helps her durability out and is a pretty good unit in his own right. Wil, not so much, Wallace is a maybe, and then she can support the other two main lords.

Eliwood has pretty awesome supports, I readily admit. I'm just saying, Lyn's got great supports herself.

Comparing stats, neither one really has a clear edge on the other. Both are almost equal in power (Lyn's 40% growth to Eliwood's 45%), Lyn has a clear advantage in avoidance (60% speed and 55% luck compared to 40% speed and 40% speed and 45% luck), and Eliwood has a slight advantage in defense (80% HP vs. 70% HP, 30% defense vs. 20% defense, 35% resistance vs. 30% resistance). Eliwood's defense can be bolstered easier through supports than Lyn's can, but just the same her avoidance and attack prowess are easier to bolster through supports than Eliwood's.

Apples and oranges, friend. Both are fantastic units. You really should use both. They rank among two of the best units in the entire game.

Of course, nothing can touch Hector's greatness. He's honestly the most OP unit in the entire series for the game he's in. Units that are really weak + awesome defense + awesome strength + passable speed + Wolf Beil? Mmmmmm sexy.

[CGV]

Lyn has bad durability? That's laughable. She's more durable than any of the other units I know. Maybe I just got RNG blessed

or maybe she's just that good ;)

[Swordsalmon]

Try to be objective here. Eliwood is hardly superior. He's not bad, but he's not good. His stats are very much like a typical cavalier with the disability of not being on a horse. Lyn's got utility before she gets promoted while Eliwood can't do anything well enough to make him very usable until he promotes.

Also, Lyn has plenty of supports and saying otherwise is kind of silly. Florina? Great character in her own right, fast support. Rath? One of the best hit and run units in the game, fairly fast support, awesome support bonuses for Lyn. Kent isn't bad as he helps her durability out and is a pretty good unit in his own right. Wil, not so much, Wallace is a maybe, and then she can support the other two main lords.

Eliwood has pretty awesome supports, I readily admit. I'm just saying, Lyn's got great supports herself.

Comparing stats, neither one really has a clear edge on the other. Both are almost equal in power (Lyn's 40% growth to Eliwood's 45%), Lyn has a clear advantage in avoidance (60% speed and 55% luck compared to 40% speed and 40% speed and 45% luck), and Eliwood has a slight advantage in defense (80% HP vs. 70% HP, 30% defense vs. 20% defense, 35% resistance vs. 30% resistance). Eliwood's defense can be bolstered easier through supports than Lyn's can, but just the same her avoidance and attack prowess are easier to bolster through supports than Eliwood's.

Apples and oranges, friend. Both are fantastic units. You really should use both. They rank among two of the best units in the entire game.

Of course, nothing can touch Hector's greatness. He's honestly the most OP unit in the entire series for the game he's in. Units that are really weak + awesome defense + awesome strength + passable speed + Wolf Beil? Mmmmmm sexy.

Eliwood has hax supports that make him incredible. Hector A, Lowen B gives +3 Attack, +4 Defense, and +25% Avoid. After a few chapters, and he's one of the best characters. As such, he'll promote earlier.

Florina can always get Fiora or Serra instead of Lyn or might not be played, Kent wants Sain and Fiora, Eliwood and Hector have each other, and Wallace, Wil, and Rath are terrible. Rath joins too late and has a bad affinity anyways.

Lyn at best gets Florina A, and the bonuses barely help her defense problems.

Averages please.

Except Lyn is fairly mediocre and promotes very late, while Eliwood is one of the best characters? :o

Eliwood>Hector, as Eliwood actually promotes at a decent time. Hector also hurts Experience for mos the game.

[Florete]

Eliwood has hax supports that make him incredible. Hector A, Lowen B gives +3 Attack, +4 Defense, and +25% Avoid. After a few chapters, and he's one of the best characters. As such, he'll promote earlier.

Florina can always get Fiora or Serra instead of Lyn or might not be played, Kent wants Sain and Fiora, Eliwood and Hector have each other, and Wallace, Wil, and Rath are terrible. Rath joins too late and has a bad affinity anyways.

Lyn at best gets Florina A, and the bonuses barely help her defense problems.

Except Lyn is fairly mediocre and promotes very late, while Eliwood is one of the best characters? :o

Eliwood>Hector, as Eliwood actually promotes at a decent time. Hector also hurts Experience for mos the game.

You can't assume he'll promote earlier. And Lowen may not be played.

What if Fiora and/or Serra aren't played? (And lol Serra/Florina 241 freakin' turns) What if Kent is being played but Sain and Fiora aren't? For one who tells others not to be biased, you're being pretty biased yourself with all of these assumptions.

They don't need defenses as much as power, which they are getting plenty of with +3 attack and +15 crit.

More assumptions on promotion times.

In Hector mode only.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[Serene]

Ike's okay but personally the fact that he didn't cap anything by lvl 20 disturbs me.

[Reikken]

They don't need defenses as much as power

They do on HHM. Failure defenses is crippling on a melee unit.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Reikken

[Swordsalmon]

You can't assume he'll promote earlier. And Lowen may not be played.

What if Fiora and/or Serra aren't played? (And lol Serra/Florina 241 freakin' turns) What if Kent is being played but Sain and Fiora aren't? For one who tells others not to be biased, you're being pretty biased yourself with all of these assumptions.

They don't need defenses as much as power, which they are getting plenty of with +3 attack and +15 crit.

More assumptions on promotion times.

In Hector mode only.

Lowen is the best Paladin, so he'll be played. Eliwood has much better stats than Lyn, so he promotes early.

Serra is the best character; along with Matthew and will be played as such. Fiora can triangle with Kent and Sain, but makes a fast and powerful Florina A. It's easier to keep in range, too. Kent and Sain are both Top tier characters and are most likely to be used.

Lyn is desperate for Defense, as her's is terrible. Besides, Critical is unreliable for the most part, unless the character is like Guy for example, who has a Critical bonus and hax supports.