The Nohr-Hoshido War sorta reminds me of... (Spoilers)

[Soapbar]

(Not sure whether to but this here or in General Gaming)

Skyrim's Civil War Questline. Not in the way they're fought and stuff like that, but because of the obvious favoritism that one side received while the other one got shafted

In Skyrim, the two sides fighting are the Imperial Empire and the Stormcloak Rebellion. Long story short, IIRC The Empire lost a war against the High Elven Thalmor and had to negotiate a treaty, an important clause of that treaty being that the worship of Talos, a god important to the Nords, be outlawed. Ulfric Stormcloak took issue with this and decided to rebel against the Empire and the Thalmor and attempt to seperate Skyrim from the Empire.

That's as far as I remember anyways, I haven't played Skyrim in a fuck long time.

Now that sounds just fine and morally grey until you start diving into some backstory. The Stormcloaks are horribly racist against Dark Elves, Argonians, and Khajit (Then again everybody is racist against Khajit in Elder Scrolls). Furthermore, according to in-game lore, The Thalmor nearly crushed the Empire and the Stormcloaks plan to go to war with them would result pretty much in their imminent destruction. Then you go even further, and according to a NPC (Hadvar's Blacksmith uncle who I forget the name of) says that everybody still had their own little secret shrine to Talos, and it was only when Ulfric started cooking up a storm about that people started getting dragged away by the Thalmor. It also doesn't help that Ulfric himself is basically Viking Ron Paul

It's sorta the same thing in Fates from what I can see. Nohr has near to no justification for it's actions. They have poor crop conditions so I guess that's a good enough reason to invade Hoshido, but as far as I know they make no attempt to expand upon whether or not Nohr tried to work out trade agreements with Hoshido for food. They kidnapped Kamui and killed Sumeragi, and even though Hoshido kidnapped Aqua, it was an attempt to get Kamui back and therefore justified. While Mikoto apparently had sex with an evil Dragon God but it's unknown whether that was even consensual or if Hydra pulled a Zeus on Mikoto's ass. Then there's the whole thing with Garon being a slime monster and all that.

Of course, at least in Skyrim, a lot of the Stormcloaks anger WAS justified, it's just that their plans for rebellion would've have ended in disaster even if they managed to separate from the Empire

Anyways, just my (probably stupid) thoughts

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Nohr has near to no justification for it's actions. They have poor crop conditions so I guess that's a good enough reason to invade Hoshido, but as far as I know they make no attempt to expand upon whether or not Nohr tried to work out trade agreements with Hoshido for food. They kidnapped Kamui and killed Sumeragi, and even though Hoshido kidnapped Aqua, it was an attempt to get Kamui back and therefore justified. While Mikoto apparently had sex with an evil Dragon God but it's unknown whether that was even consensual or if Hydra pulled a Zeus on Mikoto's ass. Then there's the whole thing with Garon being a slime monster and all that.

Nohr's been a headless empire since Garon died, Anankos is the one that made Nohr attack Hoshido. IDK if it's ever specified if Slime Garon was the one who killed Sumeragi or not, but most of Nohr's actions weren't really ordered by someone with Nohr's interests in mind. It's still a shallow reason, but Anankos (the slime monster was under Anankos' command, remember) had Nohr operating on its own self-destruction and the destruction of Hoshido as their endgame.

I'm not trying to excuse the plot or anything, just saying what my understanding of the events was.

Edited July 29, 2015 by L95

[Soapbar]

Nohr's been a headless empire since Garon died, Anankos is the one that made Nohr attack Hoshido. IDK if it's ever specified if Slime Garon was the one who killed Sumeragi or not, but most of Nohr's actions weren't really ordered by someone with Nohr's interests in mind. It's still a shallow reason, but Anankos (the slime monster was under Anankos' command, remember) had Nohr operating on its own self-destruction and the destruction of Hoshido as their endgame.

I'm not trying to excuse the plot or anything, just saying what my understanding of the events was.

Nohr would still it's peoples support for it to be able to go to war effectively. While Anakos might've ordered Garon to invade, I highly doubt he can control an entire country, so it's a bit obvious that the people of Nohr either support or are indifferent to the invasion. So either Nohr is a hyper-nationalist country, the plot didn't explain this too well, or Anakos is really good at running propaganda campaigns.

[Sunwoo]

Nohr's been a headless empire since Garon died, Anankos is the one that made Nohr attack Hoshido. IDK if it's ever specified if Slime Garon was the one who killed Sumeragi or not, but most of Nohr's actions weren't really ordered by someone with Nohr's interests in mind. It's still a shallow reason, but Anankos (the slime monster was under Anankos' command, remember) had Nohr operating on its own self-destruction and the destruction of Hoshido as their endgame.

If I'm not mistaken, Elise and Aqua's supports state that Elise was born after Aqua is kidnapped -- and therefore after Kamui was kidnapped. So unless slime Garon can father Elise, that was probably the real Garon who killed Sumeragi.

[JupiterKnight]

Not just terrible conditions to grow food, but a hostile environment as well. To the point that Nohr would have collapsed if it didn't conquer other territories to sustain itself in the past. Not to mention crime and chaos are rampant with assassinations happening all the time. In contrast to the beautiful, flourishing Hoshido that has everything that the people of Nohr do not have. If you compare it Hoshido is effectively Eden while Nohr is Hell.

And yes Anankos does know how to influence people. He can look into their hearts. That's how he takes control of both Takumi and Gunther.

@Sunwoo: Technically Garon could be killed after Elise is conceived and replaced with a goo monster. So he can be killed before Elises mom gives birth to her.

Edited July 29, 2015 by JupiterKnight

[Sunwoo]

@Sunwoo: Technically Garon could be killed after Elise is conceived and replaced with a goo monster. So he can be killed before Elises mom gives birth to her.

Well, that is dependent on how old Kamui is relative to Elise and how old Kamui was when they were kidnapped. Which the game gives no answer on. I concede that this is not out of the realm of possibility, but eh.

[Taka-kun]

If the plot of Fates was based on actual national worries and problems and the story dealt with the consequences of the actions pertaining it like the Elder Scrolls series, I think we wouldn't have that many complaints with the story as we have now. Going all "evilz dragon and nothing else" is cliche and classical, and I believe few on SF like that.

[Alazen]

If the plot of Fates was based on actual national worries and problems and the story dealt with the consequences of the actions pertaining it like the Elder Scrolls series, I think we wouldn't have that many complaints with the story as we have now. Going all "evilz dragon and nothing else" is cliche and classical, and I believe few on SF like that.

It doesn't help that Hydra is an underwhelming character. Being an excuse to let Kamui marry both sets of siblings and to the warring kingdoms to friend-up.

Anyway, Fates didn't try very hard to muddy the war. The most "unrepentantly evil" or unsympathetic major human characters are Nohrian. Hoshido does not have either the decadent corruption of Zofia, the infighting of Grannvale, or a belligerent ruler like Quan. "Garon" is nowhere near Trabant and Arvis as characters, considering we never meet the actual Garon and Fake Garon.... No.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Alazen