Matoi, Shinonome, Oboro weapon layout help

[SapphireFalconWing]

I know there is a weapon thread but I want good input on my choices.

I got the other characters planned out but want to know about these 3 since they'probably my main Naginata/Lance units:

I pair my Kamui with Hinoka!Matoi FW (IK) and benefit from her skills from "nohr" but want to know what good weapons would be good for her so I pick these:

Subakis gold Naginata: potential double damage

Swordslayer Naginata: more effect

Guard Naginata: more defenses

Shinrai Naginata: magic benefit.

Spear: strong physical projectile

Winter Vestal/misfortune and sin

Now For Camilla!Shinonome holy lancer:

Reverse Naginata: control WT

Suisha: Double-edge naginata

Subakis Gold-naginata: stated above

Beast Killer: beast sweeper

Spear: stated above

Now Oboro holy lancer:

Warrior naginata: great counter attack

Beast Killer: stated above

Spear:stated above

Guard naginata: stated above

Swordslayer naginata: stated above

Of course they'll be forged so I wanna know if these weapon choices are ok for these 3.

[astrophys]

I pair my Kamui with Hinoka!Matoi FW (IK) and benefit from her skills from "nohr" but want to know what good weapons would be good for her so I pick these:

Subakis gold Naginata: potential double damage

Swordslayer Naginata: more effect

Guard Naginata: more defenses

Shinrai Naginata: magic benefit.

Spear: strong physical projectile

Winter Vestal/misfortune and sin

Of course they'll be forged so I wanna know if these weapon choices are ok for these 3.

Well, some of these, like the Shinrai Naginata, the Spear, etc., are in limited supply in the store, so to forge them means sacrificing what might be your only other copy that someone else could use (as forging now consumes two copies of the weapon to make one better one). Although the weapons DLC can negate this by making the weapons infinitely available with sufficient grind.

Subaki's Gold Naginata only doubles Might according to its description, not attack, so that would be 8 Might when doubled. You could do better with Steel as long as you were fast enough… and since Matoi gets Swallow Strike access, even Steel would leave her at ability to double +2 after Swallow Strike and the Steel penalty. So if she was three speed faster than the enemy, she'd double.

Swordslayer…. that sounds good.

Guard Naginata does play to Matoi's stat cap advantages (she has +3 Def, +2 Res when maxed out).

Have you given any thought to a Reverse Naginata so that Matoi can overcome Axe users by hitting them with a reversed doubled weapon triangle (changing lances being weak against axes to axes being twice as weak against Reverse Naginata).

[SapphireFalconWing]

Well, some of these, like the Shinrai Naginata, the Spear, etc., are in limited supply in the store, so to forge them means sacrificing what might be your only other copy that someone else could use (as forging now consumes two copies of the weapon to make one better one). Although the weapons DLC can negate this by making the weapons infinitely available with sufficient grind.

Subaki's Gold Naginata only doubles Might according to its description, not attack, so that would be 8 Might when doubled. You could do better with Steel as long as you were fast enough and since Matoi gets Swallow Strike access, even Steel would leave her at ability to double +2 after Swallow Strike and the Steel penalty. So if she was three speed faster than the enemy, she'd double.

Swordslayer. that sounds good.

Guard Naginata does play to Matoi's stat cap advantages (she has +3 Def, +2 Res when maxed out).

Have you given any thought to a Reverse Naginata so that Matoi can overcome Axe users by hitting them with a reversed doubled weapon triangle (changing lances being weak against axes to axes being twice as weak against Reverse Naginata).

yeah reverse can help her against axes with more effect also I'll try the steel and yeah the DLC does help but requires a lot of luck and time to get copy weapons. Edited July 31, 2015 by SapphireFalconWing

[astrophys]

Speaking of Guard Naginata….

While not a Falcon Warrior (and thus not applicable to your plans), here's an alternate build that can really negate a lot of damage of both types… I'm probably going to use some Falcon Warrior myself, but I'll just mention it for reference purposes:

Hinoka!Matoi, buddied with Sophie to get the Cavalier tree; goes to Great Knight for Diamond Strike (and Falcon Warrior for Mirror Strike).

When capped, Hinoka!Matoi's mods push a Great Knight to 40 Def and 30 Res. The strikes add 10 and 20 damage reductions when attacking. The Guard Nagainata boosts defense/resistance by 5.

As such, we can get a Hinoka!Matoi capable of reducing BOTH physical and magical damage by 55 when she's attacking

[SapphireFalconWing]

Speaking of Guard Naginata….

While not a Falcon Warrior (and thus not applicable to your plans), here's an alternate build that can really negate a lot of damage of both types… I'm probably going to use some Falcon Warrior myself, but I'll just mention it for reference purposes:

Hinoka!Matoi, buddied with Sophie to get the Cavalier tree; goes to Great Knight for Diamond Strike (and Falcon Warrior for Mirror Strike).

When capped, Hinoka!Matoi's mods push a Great Knight to 40 Def and 30 Res. The strikes add 10 and 20 damage reductions when attacking. The Guard Nagainata boosts defense/resistance by 5.

As such, we can get a Hinoka!Matoi capable of reducing BOTH physical and magical damage by 55 when she's attacking

whoa! Great idea! I might try this!

[astrophys]

I might even consider running a Silver Naginata, now that I think of it, if you're going Falcon Warrior.

Falcon Warriors have naturally high luck growth (20% class growth) and have a high base luck as well, as far as luck bases go. They also have high luck caps (35). So by virtue of her class Matoi is likely going to be fairly lucky. This means the -5 crit evade penalty might not be as important in the end.

Yes, Silvers also de-buff your STR and Skl by 2 each time you use them, and this will take two turns to wear off (for one use). But you have your other weapons too, like Reverse Naginata and Swordslayer Naginata.

Swordslayer Naginata is an effective weapon vs. swords, so if effectives are working anything like the last several games the way that it operates should be based on multiplying the weapon might. So that adds a large amount of damage just based on the weapon itself. Even if you had just taken a Silver's penalty on the prior turn, you'd probably be dealing so much damage against swordsmen due to effective damage that it might not matter.

And Reverse Naginata would be really good for dodge tanking against axe user, I'd imagine. Dodge tanking doesn't care about what your strength is.

So perhaps I might do this as a load out:

1. Swordslayer Nagianata [conveniently enough, she comes with this in her inventory when recruited] - for use vs. sword users

2. Reverse Naginata - for use against axe uers

3. Silver Nagainata - For high might when you need to ensure a kill and cannot get effective damage; it has 13 might, 6 more than the prior two weapons, which will give 12 more damage when Matoi almost inevitably doubles with Swallow Strike.

4. Shinrai Naginata - For range and the ability to apply magic damage against enemies with strong physical defenses…. Matoi doesn't have stellar magic growths, but seeing that its an 11 might weapon and Falcon Warriors and Matoi both have some base magic she still might be able to do some magic damage with it

5. Guard Naginata (if you want to shore up defenses)

Alternately, swap out one of the above for a Staff…. for example, perhaps Sakura (who has a much better magic growth) wants that Shinrai Nagainata more if she class changes to Falcon Warrior.

The above list has been intentionally staying restricted to Hoshido route stuff.

If we're considering Invisible Kingdom, I might suggest a Beast Killer or a Brave Lance. Beast killer is a way to do more effective damage against a wider variety of enemies; its a quick way to bypass the lowish base might of a Pegasus class. Although she does have Prodigy, which might bring her up to par against more opponents…

Brave Lance has only 6 might, but lets her get in two attacks before the enemy, and then get two more attacks after them (if they can fight back in the first place)…. it does have a -4 penalty to the defenses, but it might let her secure more kills when bolstered by her Prodigy and maybe Lancefaire.

[NekoKnight]

Here's what I'd do for your Oboro. Switch out Spear for Javelin and Guard Naginata for Reverse Naginata. Javelins can be used to counterattack at melee range which will be useful for applying Seal effects. She already has high defense and reasonable resistance so a Guard Naginata is more useful on a squishy unit. Lancers only have to worry about axe users and with a Reverse Naginata, you will never be hit by one. Reverse Naginata also have higher crit and damage than Iron weapons so they are a good weapon to use even if you have a neutral WT match up.

[SapphireFalconWing]

I might even consider running a Silver Naginata, now that I think of it, if you're going Falcon Warrior.

Falcon Warriors have naturally high luck growth (20% class growth) and have a high base luck as well, as far as luck bases go. They also have high luck caps (35). So by virtue of her class Matoi is likely going to be fairly lucky. This means the -5 crit evade penalty might not be as important in the end.

Yes, Silvers also de-buff your STR and Skl by 2 each time you use them, and this will take two turns to wear off (for one use). But you have your other weapons too, like Reverse Naginata and Swordslayer Naginata.

Swordslayer Naginata is an effective weapon vs. swords, so if effectives are working anything like the last several games the way that it operates should be based on multiplying the weapon might. So that adds a large amount of damage just based on the weapon itself. Even if you had just taken a Silver's penalty on the prior turn, you'd probably be dealing so much damage against swordsmen due to effective damage that it might not matter.

And Reverse Naginata would be really good for dodge tanking against axe user, I'd imagine. Dodge tanking doesn't care about what your strength is.

So perhaps I might do this as a load out:

1. Swordslayer Nagianata [conveniently enough, she comes with this in her inventory when recruited] - for use vs. sword users

2. Reverse Naginata - for use against axe uers

3. Silver Nagainata - For high might when you need to ensure a kill and cannot get effective damage; it has 13 might, 6 more than the prior two weapons, which will give 12 more damage when Matoi almost inevitably doubles with Swallow Strike.

4. Shinrai Naginata - For range and the ability to apply magic damage against enemies with strong physical defenses. Matoi doesn't have stellar magic growths, but seeing that its an 11 might weapon and Falcon Warriors and Matoi both have some base magic she still might be able to do some magic damage with it

5. Guard Naginata (if you want to shore up defenses)

Alternately, swap out one of the above for a Staff. for example, perhaps Sakura (who has a much better magic growth) wants that Shinrai Nagainata more if she class changes to Falcon Warrior.

The above list has been intentionally staying restricted to Hoshido route stuff.

If we're considering Invisible Kingdom, I might suggest a Beast Killer or a Brave Lance. Beast killer is a way to do more effective damage against a wider variety of enemies; its a quick way to bypass the lowish base might of a Pegasus class. Although she does have Prodigy, which might bring her up to par against more opponents

Brave Lance has only 6 might, but lets her get in two attacks before the enemy, and then get two more attacks after them (if they can fight back in the first place). it does have a -4 penalty to the defenses, but it might let her secure more kills when bolstered by her Prodigy and maybe Lancefaire.

ah I see also since lancefaire doesn't effect prodigy plus magic benfits I see it being really useful for her and brave lance is good for two chances of breaking sky to trigger.

^Also thank you nekoknight! That weapon setup seems very effective for Oboro.

Edited July 31, 2015 by SapphireFalconWing