Unit Practicality Thread

[Konnor97]

if you're +Spd, you're probably not gonna need Swallow Strike at all in-story. Eastern Heart's usefulness also varies. iono how useful just 10% is. imo it's not worth a slot and 2 Seals just for Eastern Heart. Soar is also just very situational. you'd much prefer to use an Archer against fliers anyways

also, if you do decide you want the Pegasus skills, why Lance Fighter -> Pegasus -> Basara? why not Lance Fighter -> Basara -> Holy Lancer -> GKW? that'll save you 1 Seal though you'll be in Sword Class at Lvl 9 if you're trying to get Soar vs 7 (8 vs 7 if you're only trying to get Eastern Heart and both 7 if only Swallow Strike)

You'd have to do it first a Second Seal to Lance Fighter, Second a Master Seal to Basara, Third a Marriage Seal to pick up Eastern Heart IMO I wouldn't recommend Soar or Eastern Heart, you don't need to worry about flying class with Takumi and his bow and unless you choose Speed as your flaw you'll be OK, Fourth a Second Seal once again but this time to Holy Lancer and I imagine lastly a Buddy Seal to Paladin or Great Knight. Just five.

Edit: Pretty much what the post above said.

Okay, thanks guys. I wasn't thinking the greatest on the most optimal class changing that well last night. I am planning on +Speed -Luck (maybe -Res) anyway, so I guess I'll just skip the Pegasus stuff and just make it with the seal skills. Dragon Fang, Breaking Sky, Lancefaire, and the 2 seal skills sound good enough for the main game.

That still is 7 seven seals between Yuugiri and I. 1 Master Seal (Lance Fighter -C> Basara), 4 Parallel Seals (Nohr Prince -C> Lance Fighter, Basara -C> Holy Lancer, Golden Kite Warrior -Y> Basara, and Holy Lancer -Y> Falcon Warrior), 1 Marriage Seal (Basara -Y> Holy Lancer), and 1 Buddy Seal (Holy Lancer -C> Paladin/Great Knight). Assuming I don't get any of the special seals during the story, that'll require a rank 2 Vendor and a Rank 1 vendor for all of the Parallel Seals.

No one answered?

Very useful in both routes. More useful in IK because she's a sorta early strong prepromote who can either weaken enemies for you growth units to pick up or kill problem enemies (FE6 Zealot?). She's good as a GKW because her bulk is nothing special and Yumi are a strong weapon type that lets her avoid payer phase counters.

Thanks for the answer. That is what it looked like from her bases. The thing I am concerned with is her Skill. She starts with 14 (16 on Revelations), her growth is 30%/35%, which doesn't seem the greatest, and it gets lower if she reclasses. Assuming the hit calculation is the same as Awakening, she has 98 hit with the Iron Yumi and 103 hit with the Steel Naginata. Is her Skill an issue at all during gameplay, or does it just look worse that it is?

[astrophys]

Counting both 1st gen units and child units, whom would be the best Shockstick user in Birthright in the combination of effectiveness/practicality to bring them to being a useful Shocksticker in the first place?

[Duke of Dozel]

Falcon!Sakura, Basara!Tsubaki,Magic Matoi, and Basara!Hinoka.

[Tooru]

Enemies with high Def but low Res have Defensive Formation in Lunatic Conquest. In later chapters they will even have Magic Counter.

I only found Bolt Axe useful in chapter 21, where Malig Camilla can ORKO a Golem with Dragonstone+ Corrin(+Mag) in Attack Stance. This means nothing for many players because Dragonstone is said to be s**t and they will reclass Corrin.

Well, she can still attack a Golem, take 1 hit and then Deadly Breath. Someone else with high Mag will come to finish the Golem.

Attack Stances with Camilla always easily beat enemies without any receiving damage, no matter she is the leader or supporter.

I don't understand why people are so glad for doubling, which means you may take 1 hit between two attacks.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Tooru

[astrophys]

Falcon!Sakura, Basara!Tsubaki,Magic Matoi, and Basara!Hinoka.

Basara does have +1 more magic than Falcon Warrior [in bases, 5 vs. 4] so there is that, but do you want to go for the +1 magic on Basara or the +2 movement and flight on Falcon Warrior? Is there another key reason why you advise Tsubaki/Hinoka as Basaras?

For magic Matoi, whom would you recommend as her parent? Sakura (50% parental magic, 40% parental Spd, 30% parent Str), the more magic but slower and physically weaker Orochi (65% parental magic, 15% parental Spd, 5% parental Strength)? Orochi also starts with combat abilities and might pair-up more readily, but Sakura has a fast support with Tsubaki…. Or would you use a different parent?

Edited January 25, 2016 by astrophys

[Espinosa]

If magical builds are so suboptimal on Lunatic Nohr, why are we discussing +mag Cavaliers and Dark Knights as the best MU builds? Don't we want to kill Ch25 Ryoma in one turn and not have to spend turns AND make our way through that nightmarish map (even if chapter 26 is much worse, but what can you do, you need a challenge sometime)?

I really like Orochi!Matoi. The 5% strength growth should also butcher Matoi's strength to a low enough level where it will be lower than the enemies' and add +4 damage to her magical attacks with the Shockstick.

Where do we know about pair up building speed from by the way?

[Shephen]

+Mag Cavalier is good on Corrin because of Open Assault and Gunter. It just lets him/her roll over the mid game with ease and still be really good for the late game. For 25 you have time to kill the boss since you need to go get the Silence Staff anyways to make 26 way easier.

Orochi!Matoi is aight, but runs into the problem that both her and Baki Orko the same stuff after Exorcist Orochi Guard Stance, but Baki will have way better bulk than her.

[avengerfive]

If magical builds are so suboptimal on Lunatic Nohr, why are we discussing +mag Cavaliers and Dark Knights as the best MU builds? Don't we want to kill Ch25 Ryoma in one turn and not have to spend turns AND make our way through that nightmarish map (even if chapter 26 is much worse, but what can you do, you need a challenge sometime)?

I really like Orochi!Matoi. The 5% strength growth should also butcher Matoi's strength to a low enough level where it will be lower than the enemies' and add +4 damage to her magical attacks with the Shockstick.

Where do we know about pair up building speed from by the way?

I would imagine +Mag Cavalier saves tons of turns midgame. You have to realize that not all of us have efficiency in mind.

[GoXDS]

Where do we know about pair up building speed from by the way?

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/hoshidan-characters/supports/support-growth/

[Duke of Dozel]

Efficiency and practicality go hand-in-hand. Going cavalier is great because you keep your sword rank you built in the tutorial, and have a great magic growth of 50 at base. It sounds fun as hell, so I might give it a try. Either way, it's 100% practical and efficient so I don't see the problem.

You have to realize that not all of us have efficiency in mind.

We do realize this. It's a direct responce to astrophys' shockstick question.

[BlueSS1]

+Mag Cavalier is good on Corrin because of Open Assault and Gunter.

Wouldn't Felicia be better for +Mag Cavalier than Gunter, since she gives Magic as a personal bonus and joins earlier?

[Tooru]

Wouldn't Felicia be better for +Mag Cavalier than Gunter, since she gives Magic as a personal bonus and joins earlier?

+Mag Cavalier is not locked to Levin Sword.

It is a Yato Cavalier who can switch to Levin Sword when it is necessary.

[Shephen]

Wouldn't Felicia be better for +Mag Cavalier than Gunter, since she gives Magic as a personal bonus and joins earlier?

Malig Knight Gunter gives basically the same offensive boosts(minus the the speed) + the hit rate increase and only gives slightly worse defensive boosts. Frees up Felicia for other people(Leo) or to just staff support.

[Duke of Dozel]

But that's a waste of a seal, doesn't utilize Felicia's magic + personal, and Gunther isn't even in Hoshido.

[Tooru]

But that's a waste of a seal, doesn't utilize Felicia's magic + personal, and Gunther isn't even in Hoshido.

Before the choosing between Gunter and Felicia, Levin Sword isn't in Hoshido.

[Espinosa]

+Mag Cavalier is good on Corrin because of Open Assault and Gunter. It just lets him/her roll over the mid game with ease and still be really good for the late game. For 25 you have time to kill the boss since you need to go get the Silence Staff anyways to make 26 way easier.

Orochi!Matoi is aight, but runs into the problem that both her and Baki Orko the same stuff after Exorcist Orochi Guard Stance, but Baki will have way better bulk than her.

What is Gunter reclassed to, Malig Knight, for extra magic in that setup? Obviously you want him to fly for chapter 15, but does he need the combat of a Wyvern Lord? Obviously Defence Rallying is useful later on, but somebody else could do that (like Beruka or Camilla). And yeah, I can imagine the Ch25 Silence staff saving a turn or two unless you are able to rig the staff dodges or we figure out how the AI chooses which staff to use and whom - no clue so far except it tends to screw up whatever you had intended to do next turn.

As for your complaint about Orochi!Matoi, doesn't it basically mean any Matoi build is bad because Subaki will always be bulkier? Even Rinkah!Matoi has underwhelming durability, so you either keep using Subaki or you build a character with some actual magic to handle the more powerful enemies in additional to the crappier mooks. Then there's also Revelation where Matoi's offensive edge over Subaki makes her more desirable (at the same time, her lack of durability is even more painful).

But yeah, if Matoi is really as good as children get, then children really are no good (at least in the context of practicality, which is what we're dealing with in this thread). Still, Deere is a 7-8 mov healer that costs you 1 extra turn, Lutz is an extra flier in Nohr who loves Elfie's growth inheritance (the question remains if you really need another flier in addition to Camilla, Luna, Beruka, Gunter and potentially MU), and I've noticed Velour turns out really good though maybe it's just my experience and things aren't so good if you take the Beaststone+ out of the equation.

[Duke of Dozel]

It's actually kinda pathetic that Effie!Lutz can be obtained around the time you get Beruka and he will outclass her whole heartedly. At least Camilla is promoted and has monster growths. However, Tsubaki is far from bad, so even if you have his daughter he can still be your flier support along with her.

Certain kids just aren't great. Despite my best attempts, Soleil just isn't remarkable. Ingis is cursed by mods, etc. But for the most part they can be solid units in any army.

[Ownagepuffs]

So, do you guys like Camilla as a Malig Knight or a Wyvern Lord and, if both, then when? Personally I think the Malig skills are pretty uber, and while the debuff doesn't see any use when she's mercilessly ORKOing stuff, whenever it does trigger it really helps the weaklings around Camilla score kills they would've struggled to get without it. Overbearing is incredibly useful for +5 dmg on non-mounts, which a lot of Camilla's victims will be, and allows her to OHKO units she fails to one-round, like some ninja and trueblades.

At the same time, Overbearing is only L15 which is most of Camilla's lifetime in your party, and during that time don't you want to give her more strength, more speed and a good deal more physical durability? She also becomes a more adequate defence pair-up partner for the likes of Kaze and Niles, whom she in turns likes being pair-up supported by (Flannel is also a good one, as is their potential daughter), so when she's not the one attacking her future or current husband could be kicking ass and taking names too.

And then again, Malig Knight paired up with Leo or Felicia for mag/spd/def bonuses gets some wicked damage out with a Bolt Axe (it really weakens when reclassing to WLord).

It seems that if you want the most out of Camilla ASAP you'll basically have to constantly shuffle between the two Wyvern Rider promotions (even though Sorc offers Bowbreaker, she's really hard to use as one, plus do you really want to rely on dodging 50-ish or so hit attacks? Vengeance's a nice proc skill though), and that's quite costly for the one path that's really restricted in terms of resources.

She spends time as both. I take her to Rev 5 --> Wyvern 15 --> Rev 16 --> Wyvern again. Sometimes if I feel silly I'll do Zerker Camilia around level 15 or something then Rev then Wyvern.

What is Gunter reclassed to, Malig Knight, for extra magic in that setup? Obviously you want him to fly for chapter 15, but does he need the combat of a Wyvern Lord? Obviously Defence Rallying is useful later on, but somebody else could do that (like Beruka or Camilla). And yeah, I can imagine the Ch25 Silence staff saving a turn or two unless you are able to rig the staff dodges or we figure out how the AI chooses which staff to use and whom - no clue so far except it tends to screw up whatever you had intended to do next turn.

As for your complaint about Orochi!Matoi, doesn't it basically mean any Matoi build is bad because Subaki will always be bulkier? Even Rinkah!Matoi has underwhelming durability, so you either keep using Subaki or you build a character with some actual magic to handle the more powerful enemies in additional to the crappier mooks. Then there's also Revelation where Matoi's offensive edge over Subaki makes her more desirable (at the same time, her lack of durability is even more painful).

But yeah, if Matoi is really as good as children get, then children really are no good (at least in the context of practicality, which is what we're dealing with in this thread). Still, Deere is a 7-8 mov healer that costs you 1 extra turn, Lutz is an extra flier in Nohr who loves Elfie's growth inheritance (the question remains if you really need another flier in addition to Camilla, Luna, Beruka, Gunter and potentially MU), and I've noticed Velour turns out really good though maybe it's just my experience and things aren't so good if you take the Beaststone+ out of the equation.

Children are fun filler units in case their parents fall super behind on their averages or something. Early Effie!Lutz is as good as kids get since he has a great, quick support option in daddy, comes before midgame, and has similar bases to Belka but much better growths. He can sub in for Effie if her speed growth doesn't cooperate too. Deere and Foleo are great drop in staffbots with good movement and their dads see a lot of use. If you pair Silas with a good strong mommy (Hana or Kagerou) then Sophie benefits a lot from their strengths and can sub in for Silas. Hana!Sophie in particular has like a million practical skill combos she can do. Velour is kind of a kill machine but suffers from Garou problems.

Edit:

It's actually kinda pathetic that Effie!Lutz can be obtained around the time you get Beruka and he will outclass her whole heartedly. At least Camilla is promoted and has monster growths. However, Tsubaki is far from bad, so even if you have his daughter he can still be your flier support along with her.

Certain kids just aren't great. Despite my best attempts, Soleil just isn't remarkable. Ingis is cursed by mods, etc. But for the most part they can be solid units in any army.

For Soleil, have you tried Pieri for her mom? She can combine open assault and patient assurance, the couple joins at the same time and has a fast support due to being a retainer-to-retainer support, and Soleil can go Cavalier or Bow Knight for Horse options while retaining her sword rank from Merc. Also Ignis isn't cursed by mods, he's cursed by having the worst unit in Nohr as a dad in addition to being a Knight, kinda like Hoshido!Tharja

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ownagepuffs

[astrophys]

Kanna doesn't seem like a particularly impressive unit this time around… but what do you think are the best pairings (1st gen for 2nd gen Kanna or 2nd gen for 3rd gen Kanna) for making Kanna turn out as well as reasonably possible in a no-grind run?

Kanna's clearly no Morgan, but perhaps some combinations turn out better than others?

[Tooru]

For Soleil, have you tried Pieri for her mom? She can combine open assault and patient assurance, the couple joins at the same time and has a fast support due to being a retainer-to-retainer support, and Soleil can go Cavalier or Bow Knight for Horse options while retaining her sword rank from Merc.

Isn't Pieri!Soleil outclassed by her mother in main game due to lack of supports?

Edited January 26, 2016 by Tooru

[Ownagepuffs]

Isn't Pieri!Soleil outclassed by her mother in main game due to lack of supports?

The pairing was simply about making a good Soleil. Kids as a whole still kinda suffer from lack of supports, yes.

Kanna doesn't seem like a particularly impressive unit this time around… but what do you think are the best pairings (1st gen for 2nd gen Kanna or 2nd gen for 3rd gen Kanna) for making Kanna turn out as well as reasonably possible in a no-grind run?

Kanna's clearly no Morgan, but perhaps some combinations turn out better than others?

Me and Shephen were actually chatting about this a bit the other day. Hana!Kanna is probably one of the better Kannas you can have. Variable parent (Hana) has 1st chapter availability and passes good growths along with being able to take their sword rank into Samurai. Kamui will also always have access to Samurai via marriage seal as well so they can always hop into it for the final bosses. Inigo!Kanna is another interesting option (Kanna can carry sword rank into Merc, Kamui has access to Merc) though the problem is that Laz joins midgame in Nohr. Silas!Kanna is another pretty good one for Cavalier!Kanna and Kamui having access to Cavalier. In Nohr Silas also has first chapter availability too (second chapter availability in Hosh is still good). If you're fine with sacking Effie, something like Arthur!Kanna might be good too. Kamui benefits from Arthur's pair up bonuses and has access to Hero (post promotion). Kanna's growths aren't too bad since they also can go Hero (post promotion). Edit: If you go something like +Str for this pairing (ideal) then you also get a Lutz that benefits from Kamui's strength growth, as well as being able to pass down Noble Lineage to him to make training him easier (like how Robin passes Veteran). Sophie and Soleil would also benefit from this.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Ownagepuffs

[Tooru]

The pairing was simply about making a good Soleil. Kids as a whole still kinda suffer from lack of supports, yes.

Some kids have good growth to fix the problem. But Pieri!Soleil seems to be another Pieri.

If the pairing makes Soleil good, it should make Pieri good as well. Is Bow Knight Pieri good?

[Ebony]

Inigo!Kanna is another interesting option (Kanna can carry sword rank into Merc, Kamui has access to Merc) though the problem is that Laz joins midgame in Nohr.

I'm gonna go for this pairing in Nohr - I'd like to know more about it to make a decent Soleil/Kanna. I'm thinking of taking Samurai as a secondary since Laz already has Ninja.

[Shephen]

I'm gonna go for this pairing in Nohr - I'd like to know more about it to make a decent Soleil/Kanna. I'm thinking of taking Samurai as a secondary since Laz already has Ninja.

Going Samurai is probably the best thing for everyone involved. Gives Lazward a speedy class, Soleil something interesting to be, and gives Kanna a way to keep her sword rank and use the evasion bonuses to bypass her low bulk.

[Byleth]

Going Samurai is probably the best thing for everyone involved. Gives Lazward a speedy class, Soleil something interesting to be, and gives Kanna a way to keep her sword rank and use the evasion bonuses to bypass her low bulk.

Soleil will only get Nohr Princess class, not Samurai.