Advice for Avatar in Birthright and Conquest

[Rin]

I haven't played the Japanese version, so please correct me if I'm wrong in anything!

So the NA version is finally coming in a month or so. I've read in serenesforest's guide that the Avatar's personal skill is:

"When user is the support unit, if the lead unit has a C Support or higher, the lead unit’s Hit Rate +10, damage +2 and damage received -2."

- Does it mean that the Avatar is better sitting in the support's bench and marries someone who can lead?

- I heard that in Fates, since you can buy any skill from My Castle, only stats and growths are important in pairing? (Can you buy Nohr's skills in Birthright and vice versa, too?)

- From what I've read, Avatar and Kanna are decent at best, if not mediocre. That's kind of sad, really. Nohr Prince/ss at least has the useful offensive skill, but White Blood's seem less useful and Kanna shouldn't use dragonstones because they're just bad, making his/her personal skill useless, is this true? Not to mention that Female Avatar is considered much worse than Male Avatar because mothers tend to have better mod and Male has access to Ballisitician. I do play Male Avatar for exploration, but I mainly use a Female Avatar. Is there any way to build the FeMU to be strong, or is there no way at all?

If she's going to support, does it mean that Ryouma, Asyura and Takumi are the best choice for her, considering their leading personal skill?

(I will most likely choose the Avatar's second class to match the pairing and childrens rather than personal preference, so Avatar's 2nd class shouldn't be a problem)

- As for Kanna, I don't really want to make him a tank, but some people said that's what he does best. Can he be saved with some offensive potential?

On that topic, I suppose that it depends on the father. Which father in Hoshido and Conquest good for optimizing male Kanna and the other sibling, then? Either magical or physical is fine, I just want to know the options, please. As I mentioned before, I would prefer adjusting the Assets/Flaws and 2nd class to benefit both children and the marriage partner rather than try to find the partner that matches mine.

- This might just be personal opinion, and I hope I'm not bothering you all with these newb questions, but may I ask how would you rate these pairings, in regards of the pair's and 2 children's benefit (assuming that the Avatar has beneficial 2nd class & Assets/Flaws to them)?

+ Nohr:

Marx/Xander x FeMU

Leo/Leon x FeMU

Lazwald/Inigo x FeMU

+ Hoshido:

Ryouma x FeMU

Takumi x FeMU

Tsubaki/Subaki x FeMU

+ Other:

Izana x FeMU

Thank you so much for your kind advices! It'll help me a lot when I start to play Fates!

[NekoKnight]

I haven't played the Japanese version, so please correct me if I'm wrong in anything!

So the NA version is finally coming in a month or so. I've read in serenesforest's guide that the Avatar's personal skill is:

"When user is the support unit, if the lead unit has a C Support or higher, the lead unit’s Hit Rate +10, damage +2 and damage received -2."

- Does it mean that the Avatar is better sitting in the support's bench and marries someone who can lead?

- I heard that in Fates, since you can buy any skill from My Castle, only stats and growths are important in pairing? (Can you buy Nohr's skills in Birthright and vice versa, too?)

- From what I've read, Avatar and Kanna are decent at best, if not mediocre. That's kind of sad, really. Nohr Prince/ss at least has the useful offensive skill, but White Blood's seem less useful and Kanna shouldn't use dragonstones because they're just bad, making his/her personal skill useless, is this true? Not to mention that Female Avatar is considered much worse than Male Avatar because mothers tend to have better mod and Male has access to Ballisitician. I do play Male Avatar for exploration, but I mainly use a Female Avatar. Is there any way to build the FeMU to be strong, or is there no way at all?

If she's going to support, does it mean that Ryouma, Asyura and Takumi are the best choice for her, considering their leading personal skill?

(I will most likely choose the Avatar's second class to match the pairing and childrens rather than personal preference, so Avatar's 2nd class shouldn't be a problem)

- As for Kanna, I don't really want to make him a tank, but some people said that's what he does best. Can he be saved with some offensive potential?

On that topic, I suppose that it depends on the father. Which father in Hoshido and Conquest good for optimizing male Kanna and the other sibling, then? Either magical or physical is fine, I just want to know the options, please. As I mentioned before, I would prefer adjusting the Assets/Flaws and 2nd class to benefit both children and the marriage partner rather than try to find the partner that matches mine.

1. No, Kamui is a solid combat unit so it would be a waste to always keep them as pair up fodder. The ability is still helpful for when you do pair up (attack or guard stance) however.

2. You can buy any skill that is available for a character through any means. Because Kamui can marry anyone, that means anyone can get any skill that doesn't belong to a special class. You do need to find characters online who have the skills you want, so it's not guaranteed to be an easy process to find all the skills you want. It also gets more expensive, the more skills you buy.

3. The Avatar has solid growths. I don't know who said otherwise. As for choosing a secondary class, choose one with skills that would be hard to acquire for either yourself or the Avatar's spouse/children.

4. I benched Kanna so I don't really know but I found them underwhelming.

[MitoRequiem]

I originally thought Kamui was okay but multiple lunatic playthroughs and using my head made me realize that he is pretty broken lol.

If you want a decent Kanna you want to marry a 3rd Gen unforunately they arent like Morgan who is broken regardless. Ive tested a lot with Kanna im working on my final test which is a Spellcaster > Dark Blood set if shes still underwhelming after that i just give up.

As for secondary class Samurai, Ninja, Cavalier and Spellcaster are top tier choices. I think Dark Knight/Sorc is pretty good in Hoshido

[Dylos]

It's worth noting that in Hoshido, the avatar cannot get the Knight, Fighter, Mercenary, or Dark Mage classes unless that is their secondary class.

In Nohr the same is true for Samurai, Herb Merchant, Oni Savage, Lance Fighter, and Spellcaster.

These are the classes you cannot get regardless of who you marry even if you Rank A support everyone you can recruit, and thus if you intend to rank A support every character with Kamui/Corrin are likely the best options.

Personally, for Nohr I'm probably going with Lance Fighter...

[astrophys]

I'll also commented that in the Hoshido route, Dark Mage doesn't exist as a primary or secondary class on ANY of your playable characters. [Crismon gets Knight, Asyura gets Fighter, Silas and Felicia get Mercenary]. The only characters who would have it by default would be captured Dark Mage generics.

Thus, one of the only ways to get one is to bring in an Avatar with an appropriate secondary: Dark Mage secondary Avatars, and perhaps you could invoke a replacement class with Spellcaster Avatars married to a Spellcaster to give it to the spouse [but not the Avatar or Kanna themselves].

Taking a Dark Mage Avatar lets you get it on your Avatar, their spouse, and Kanna.

[Rin]

1. No, Kamui is a solid combat unit so it would be a waste to always keep them as pair up fodder. The ability is still helpful for when you do pair up (attack or guard stance) however.

2. You can buy any skill that is available for a character through any means. Because Kamui can marry anyone, that means anyone can get any skill that doesn't belong to a special class. You do need to find characters online who have the skills you want, so it's not guaranteed to be an easy process to find all the skills you want. It also gets more expensive, the more skills you buy.

3. The Avatar has solid growths. I don't know who said otherwise. As for choosing a secondary class, choose one with skills that would be hard to acquire for either yourself or the Avatar's spouse/children.

4. I benched Kanna so I don't really know but I found them underwhelming.

Thank you so much! That's reassuring to know that the Avatar is useful enough, but sadly Kanna isn't. Perhaps I'll need the actual game to find out how to make use of Kanna. I do want to try out the more challenging difficulties, but I'd like to use my favorite units too.

I originally thought Kamui was okay but multiple lunatic playthroughs and using my head made me realize that he is pretty broken lol.

If you want a decent Kanna you want to marry a 3rd Gen unforunately they arent like Morgan who is broken regardless. Ive tested a lot with Kanna im working on my final test which is a Spellcaster > Dark Blood set if shes still underwhelming after that i just give up.

As for secondary class Samurai, Ninja, Cavalier and Spellcaster are top tier choices. I think Dark Knight/Sorc is pretty good in Hoshido

Unfortunately I always feel awkward marrying the second gen, either with MaMU or FeMU. I didn't mean any offense to those who marries them, please understand, it's just personal preference. I really like Cordelia, but I think I will refrain from marrying Matoi because of the same reason.

It's worth noting that in Hoshido, the avatar cannot get the Knight, Fighter, Mercenary, or Dark Mage classes unless that is their secondary class.

In Nohr the same is true for Samurai, Herb Merchant, Oni Savage, Lance Fighter, and Spellcaster.

These are the classes you cannot get regardless of who you marry even if you Rank A support everyone you can recruit, and thus if you intend to rank A support every character with Kamui/Corrin are likely the best options.

Personally, for Nohr I'm probably going with Lance Fighter...

Thank you for the information. But if I'm not mistaken, musn't you rank A+ with the person to be able to share their class by using buddy seal, and you can only A+ one person?

I'll also commented that in the Hoshido route, Dark Mage doesn't exist as a primary or secondary class on ANY of your playable characters. [Crismon gets Knight, Asyura gets Fighter, Silas and Felicia get Mercenary]. The only characters who would have it by default would be captured Dark Mage generics.

Thus, one of the only ways to get one is to bring in an Avatar with an appropriate secondary: Dark Mage secondary Avatars, and perhaps you could invoke a replacement class with Spellcaster Avatars married to a Spellcaster to give it to the spouse [but not the Avatar or Kanna themselves].

Taking a Dark Mage Avatar lets you get it on your Avatar, their spouse, and Kanna.

So... is Dark Mage necessary on Hoshido route? If I go for physical Avatar, would it put me under disadvantages?

[Dylos]

Thank you for the information. But if I'm not mistaken, musn't you rank A+ with the person to be able to share their class by using buddy seal, and you can only A+ one person?

This is true for everyone EXCEPT Kamui/Corrin, who buddies with everyone of the same gender (except the two characters you can S with despite being the same gender) when they reach rank A (The MU cannot A+ with anyone and no one can A+ them, therefore they don't share their classes, only gain classes from others).

Edited January 8, 2016 by Dylos

[Tooru]

Only one unit will benefit from Mysterious Appeal when you use Avatar as support in Guard Stance.

If you don't, the number will be four at most.

All the Ballisitician skills cannot be used for other classes, so having access to it doesn't make Male Avatar better.

Female has access to Great Lord and Witch. Both class can come from free DLC.

Male has access to Lodestar(free), Vanguard(paid) and Grandmaster(paid).

You need to choose Dark Mage if you want to "try as more Nohr class as possible in Hoshido route". <- This is not necessary, obviously.

[astrophys]

So... is Dark Mage necessary on Hoshido route? If I go for physical Avatar, would it put me under disadvantages?

Depends on what you mean by "necessary".

If you mean, "necessary to beat the game", of course not.

If you mean, "necessary to have in order to represent as many classes as possible within the class/class-change options of your non-generic characters", then basically yes.

But of course, regarding the latter point, there's no real in-game reason why you NEED to have all classes represented; its not like you'll be making use of all of them anyways.

Regarding the issue of physical units and Dark Mages….

The Dark Knight actually does have a 20% STR growth, which is one of the stronger STR growths available and better than what you get from White Blood (20% vs. 15%). White Blood does have higher base STR (8 Dark Knight vs. 10 White Blood) and has a higher sword rank available. But this means that statistically speaking you can squeeze out more STR growth on average by leveling as a Dark Knight over a White Blood (for +5% more growths in STR) and then switching to White Blood when you are done (to get +2 more STR in bases and caps). HOWEVER, there is the slight problem of weapon ranks…. you'll basically gain about +1 more STR, but you'll miss out on +1 more attack when not at triangle disadvantage, so its a wash, basically.

[Thor Odinson]

So... is Dark Mage necessary on Hoshido route? If I go for physical Avatar, would it put me under disadvantages?

Dark Mage is absolutely not necessary and physical avatar is not disadvantageous. Dark Mage gives access to Dark Knight, which is a solid Hybrid class avatar can take advantage of due to mount, sword access, and Avatar's decent mag growths, but having DM itself, unless you really WANT to go Dark Knight/Sorc, is not necessary by any means.

Extreme class diversity is really overrated. You want just enough to get your job done, and if getting your job done means 12 paladins, then 12 paladins is enough diversity (not saying that's the case in fates--but that was the case for me in FE11). If you are going to marry a physical unit, DM is not very good for your spouse (bar potentially critzerkers postgame for getting the +hit skill) , so unless you want to be in one of the classes that DM provides yourself, since you can't get it otherwise, it's better to pick something that would benefit your spouse the most. It's just most classes are accessible through A ranking same-sex characters, so say you want Oni for yourself, but you want to marry Tsubaki and give him Lancer, then you want to pick Lancer and pass that to Tsubaki, and instead hit A rank supports with Rinka. It does depend on how early you want the class, though. If you want early wyvern, for example, even if you run female avatar and can technically A rank Crimson for wyvern, if her join time + approximate A rank time is too long for you, then pick wyvern so you can access wyvern as soon as poosible

Physical is very good. Go +str if you want physical.

[astrophys]

Yes, I'd agree, extreme class diversity does tend to be overrated, but I know that many people just like preserving the option, even if its not remotely necessary.

Anyways, I could foresee a Dark Mage/Dark Knight/Sorcerer avatar working with physical units who ended up in a class with a decent basic magic stat and whom had mild magic growths… you wouldn't be running them [the spouse] primarily as a mage, but it might really help enable strategies such as Shockstick abuse [but this is not unique to Dark Knight]….. Dark Knight (+3 magic, class bonus) + Personal Bonus (+1 magic at S-rank if +MAG asset) + Mysterious Appeal (+2 damage if C-support or better)….. that could easily be a +2 physical/+6 magical damage boost for your partner, which combined with the high might of Shocksticks (they have 2 more might than Steels, are 1-2 range, and don't have doubling penalties in exchange for avoid/skill activation/critical hit activation penalties) might allow a character like a Falcon Knight, a Basara, or a Mountain Priest to do really well magically, even if they seem to be a mainly physical character.

Anyways, outside of the DLC (Grandmaster, male only), Dark Knight is the only sword + tome option in the game on Hoshido [Dark Blood is Nohr/3rd route only], so if you want a hybrid unit who can use tomes but still has access to Yato for the final battles [where it can partly bypass the enemy Dragonskin skill, dealing 75% damage instead of everything else's 50% damage, not to mention it has high might], Dark Knight might be the way to go.

But if you don't care for hybrid units, you'll want something else.

[Rin]

This is true for everyone EXCEPT Kamui/Corrin, who buddies with everyone of the same gender (except the two characters you can S with despite being the same gender) when they reach rank A (The MU cannot A+ with anyone and no one can A+ them, therefore they don't share their classes, only gain classes from others).

Oh! I see! So basically the 2nd class you chose from the start of the game for your Avatar is either needed for your spouse, or you want an exclusive class that isn't accessible in the chosen country? Since they can get most of the other class from the other char anyway. I thought the Avatar was bound to use the 4 classes: Lord, 2nd class, one marriage class and one buddy class only. Thank you for clearing that up for me, I'm such a clueless klutz!

Only one unit will benefit from Mysterious Appeal when you use Avatar as support in Guard Stance.

If you don't, the number will be four at most.

All the Ballisitician skills cannot be used for other classes, so having access to it doesn't make Male Avatar better.

Female has access to Great Lord and Witch. Both class can come from free DLC.

Male has access to Lodestar(free), Vanguard(paid) and Grandmaster(paid).

You need to choose Dark Mage if you want to "try as more Nohr class as possible in Hoshido route". <- This is not necessary, obviously.

Depends on what you mean by "necessary".

If you mean, "necessary to beat the game", of course not.

If you mean, "necessary to have in order to represent as many classes as possible within the class/class-change options of your non-generic characters", then basically yes.

But of course, regarding the latter point, there's no real in-game reason why you NEED to have all classes represented; its not like you'll be making use of all of them anyways.

Regarding the issue of physical units and Dark Mages….

The Dark Knight actually does have a 20% STR growth, which is one of the stronger STR growths available and better than what you get from White Blood (20% vs. 15%). White Blood does have higher base STR (8 Dark Knight vs. 10 White Blood) and has a higher sword rank available. But this means that statistically speaking you can squeeze out more STR growth on average by leveling as a Dark Knight over a White Blood (for +5% more growths in STR) and then switching to White Blood when you are done (to get +2 more STR in bases and caps). HOWEVER, there is the slight problem of weapon ranks…. you'll basically gain about +1 more STR, but you'll miss out on +1 more attack when not at triangle disadvantage, so its a wash, basically.

Thank you! I just got it now ^_^ I was only thinking about "getting the 2nd class that you actually use for your Avatar", I didn't know that the Avatar is ale to buddy everyone with the same gender. I'm sorry! My bad!

But, as astrophys said, the problem only presents if I'm using Dark Knight, correct? So if I leveled up my character using DK, tolerated the disadvantage for the time being, then switched to White Blood afterwards, would I still benefit from WB's better weapon rank? In awakening, as I remember, the weapon proficiency, unlike the stats, can improve anytime without the need of leveling up our character.

Dark Mage is absolutely not necessary and physical avatar is not disadvantageous. Dark Mage gives access to Dark Knight, which is a solid Hybrid class avatar can take advantage of due to mount, sword access, and Avatar's decent mag growths, but having DM itself, unless you really WANT to go Dark Knight/Sorc, is not necessary by any means.

Extreme class diversity is really overrated. You want just enough to get your job done, and if getting your job done means 12 paladins, then 12 paladins is enough diversity (not saying that's the case in fates--but that was the case for me in FE11). If you are going to marry a physical unit, DM is not very good for your spouse (bar potentially critzerkers postgame for getting the +hit skill) , so unless you want to be in one of the classes that DM provides yourself, since you can't get it otherwise, it's better to pick something that would benefit your spouse the most. It's just most classes are accessible through A ranking same-sex characters, so say you want Oni for yourself, but you want to marry Tsubaki and give him Lancer, then you want to pick Lancer and pass that to Tsubaki, and instead hit A rank supports with Rinka. It does depend on how early you want the class, though. If you want early wyvern, for example, even if you run female avatar and can technically A rank Crimson for wyvern, if her join time + approximate A rank time is too long for you, then pick wyvern so you can access wyvern as soon as poosible

Physical is very good. Go +str if you want physical.

Yes! Thank you very much for your advice!

Anyways, I could foresee a Dark Mage/Dark Knight/Sorcerer avatar working with physical units who ended up in a class with a decent basic magic stat and whom had mild magic growths… you wouldn't be running them [the spouse] primarily as a mage, but it might really help enable strategies such as Shockstick abuse [but this is not unique to Dark Knight]….. Dark Knight (+3 magic, class bonus) + Personal Bonus (+1 magic at S-rank if +MAG asset) + Mysterious Appeal (+2 damage if C-support or better)….. that could easily be a +2 physical/+6 magical damage boost for your partner, which combined with the high might of Shocksticks (they have 2 more might than Steels, are 1-2 range, and don't have doubling penalties in exchange for avoid/skill activation/critical hit activation penalties) might allow a character like a Falcon Knight, a Basara, or a Mountain Priest to do really well magically, even if they seem to be a mainly physical character.

Anyways, outside of the DLC (Grandmaster, male only), Dark Knight is the only sword + tome option in the game on Hoshido [Dark Blood is Nohr/3rd route only], so if you want a hybrid unit who can use tomes but still has access to Yato for the final battles [where it can partly bypass the enemy Dragonskin skill, dealing 75% damage instead of everything else's 50% damage, not to mention it has high might], Dark Knight might be the way to go.

But if you don't care for hybrid units, you'll want something else.

Oooh, I almost feel like picking Dark Mage to promote to DK right away. It sounds pretty amazing to me. I do like being a hybrid unit, that's what I did in my Awakening playthrough and I really enjoyed it!

Why does Grandmaster have to be male exclusive? >_< It's so unfair...

The shockstick abuse seems interesting and viable, but I think I'd still pick the class that benefit Corrin/Kamui's spouse. I will absolutely try out DK in my Nohr playthrough, and choose a magical user to pair with! May I ask, if not too much of a trouble, in Hoshido what does physical units like Tsubaki or Takumi, Ryouma or Kaze want?

Edited January 8, 2016 by Rin

[astrophys]

Well, Dark Knight's weapon rank caps out at B, so your growth of your weapon rank would actually halt at B as a Dark Knight. Most unpromoted classes also cap out at B-ranks in many cases.

So from Nohr Prince, you could promote to White Blood, for example, and start with a B rank. In White Blood, you could work up to A. But if you switched to Dark Knight first before working to A, your sword rank growth would halt until you returned to a class like White Blood that allows A-rank.

Now, yes, you're right, you can gain weapon rank without leveling, so if we ignore Eternal Seals [raise level cap by 5 per use, but cost 6x the price of other seals], you could get +0.95 extra growths in STR as a Dark Knight, switch over to White Blood to gain +2 more STR in bases/caps [which should immediately increase your STR by 2], and then fill in the remaining weapon experience to get your A-rank, and yes, at 20/20 you could end up with slightly higher STR.

Now, in no-grind, you might not actually have time to do that, as you might not actually reach 20/20 in the first place and you then might be too close to the end of the game [barring an Arms Scroll].

But say, if you weren't using Eternal Seals and were keeping your units ending at 20/20 forever for some reason [like old Fire Emblem games without infinite leveling], yes, you could squeeze out, on average [variations in RNG means no guarantee] more STR overall this way.

One extra caveat is that Dark Knight does actually have 5% lower combined growths than White blood…. you will end up with about 0.95 total extra STR from level ups on average, but on average you'll end up with 0.95 total stats from leveling. Although this is somewhat offset because Dark Knight actually has higher base stats than White Blood does…

White Blood [bases]: 19 HP, 10 Strength, 4 Magic, 5 Skill, 6 Speed, 4 Luck, 7 Defense, 3 Resistance, 6 Move

Dark Knight [bases]: 19 HP, 8 Strength, 6 Magic, 6 Skill, 5 Speed, 3 Luck, 8 Defense, 6 Resistance, 8 Move

As such, unless ramming against a cap, class changing from Dark Knight to White Blood gives you:

+0 HP, +2 Str, -2 Magic, -1 Skil, +1 Speed, +1 Luck, -1 Defense, -3 Resistance, -2 Move

Overall, Dark Knight has 3 more non-move stat points and 2 more move points in bases, although it trades strength for magic and has worse speed [also 5% less in growths].

But Dark Knight has lower overall caps [might not be reached in main game]

White Blood: 60 HP, 34 Str, 28 Magic, 29 Skill, 30 Speed, 33 Luck, 31 Defense, 28 Resistance, 6 Move, A-swords, A-stones, B-staves

Dark Knight: 55 HP, 32 Str, 31 Magic, 28 Skill, 27 Speed, 31 Luck, 34 Defense, 30 Resistance , 8 Move, A-tomes, B-swords

The speed cap is a notable drawback. They do have better defenses, however, and they can use Horse God [a tome, which therefore White Blood cannot use] to both close the gap on the speed while further augmenting defenses [+3 Skill, +3 Speed, +3 Defense, +3 Resistance when equipped]. Although Horse God has low might, so presumably its not your only weapon of choice.

[MitoRequiem]

Unfortunately I always feel awkward marrying the second gen, either with MaMU or FeMU. I didn't mean any offense to those who marries them, please understand, it's just personal preference. I really like Cordelia, but I think I will refrain from marrying Matoi because of the same reason.

So... is Dark Mage necessary on Hoshido route? If I go for physical Avatar, would it put me under disadvantages?

Yeah I find it awkward as well but I figure if I play Male I'm gonna have to do it or marry a Kamuisexual anyways(of course I could always sacrifice Benovit's child cause I don't really care for him lol) but marrying a 2nd gen seems like the only way to get a decent Kanna. Particularly Syalla, Ophelia and Velour off the top of my head. Matoi probably wouldn't be that good anyways.

Nothing is really necessary I just mentioned a few classes that are considered "top tier"

In this game you want to go +STR or +MAG depending on what you want. If you're going Hybrid I'd go +MAG if you're going straight up Physical +STR.

Unlike Awakening in Lunatic you don't really want to go +DEF

[Shadow Mir]

Unlike Awakening in Lunatic you don't really want to go +DEF

Wynaut? Because I'd assume Defense would be a good stat for an asset...

[Dylos]

Wynaut? Because I'd assume Defense would be a good stat for an asset...

Perhaps because going defense as your asset gives you at an additional 4.8 def at 20/20 over not going def asset, where as if you are +str it gives an extra 7.7 str, and mag gives an extra 10.6 magic. Skill gives upwards of 16.3, but from what I've noticed it's mostly wasted because of Kamui/Corrin's high skill plus the high skill of his unique classes.

[Shadow Mir]

Perhaps because going defense as your asset gives you at an additional 4.8 def at 20/20 over not going def asset, where as if you are +str it gives an extra 7.7 str, and mag gives an extra 10.6 magic. Skill gives upwards of 16.3, but from what I've noticed it's mostly wasted because of Kamui/Corrin's high skill plus the high skill of his unique classes.

I doubt it'd be that... All stats aren't created equal, after all.

[Thor Odinson]

Not enough power to delete/orko people I assume, and not as much high demand for earlygame extreme tanking; +Def isn't nearly as optimal on Hard, for example, because you don't need the level of near-invincibility +Def affords on L/+. In fact, if you get too tanky, enemies just ignore you.

Anyway I noticed you want to marry Ryouma

I can advise on Ryouma bc I spend too many hours of my life analyzing his ass

I'd recommend going Oni as a subclass (even if you don't end up in it) for Ryouma, because out of classes he can't get from A+ it's one of the best classes he could ask for--He has a lot of innate critical, and Ogre Strike will skyrocket that, and Blacksmith is a solid sword-using class that he can opt into (his native Trueblade's probably still better for his own purposes) but it does provide him with Lancebreaker while allowing him to keep on using his OP as fuck sword. Shino gets Nohr Prince branch either way, so I'd recommend either passing him Ogre Strike or letting Ryouma do that just in case he wants it, because Shino is also in a +crit class and can potentially benefit from it, though his dad is better at critting than he is.

Depending on how much you want to grind --- because what I'm about to tell you is pretty impractical for nogrind, but if you're grinding or saving Shino for postgame, you can opt to A rank Midoriko and pass Shino Extravagance. He could technically just marry her and get it himself, and that's a valid option if you don't want the hassle, though that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth because of their apparent age difference. For Shino, either +Str or +Spd are both strong options for him, and it's ultimately up to you. For me, I prefer +str as an asset for my own purposes, but I feel Shino benefits from +Spd more because he has a lot of damage-boosting options just by existing and his personal speed growth is a little low, whereas his personal strength is pretty high. If you're going for an in-game no-postgame run instead, just pass him Dragon Fang.

However, since Ryouma can only get 1 A+ at a time, it's fine to pick something off his A+ list so you can A+ him to someone else, like picking Ninja (or hell, Herb merchant, it gives Copycat and Extravagance, so) so you can tape him to Marx forever bc otp (or Silas), or Cav if you want him to A+ Saizou or Takumi instead. All 3 classes he can get through A+ benefit him in some way.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[MitoRequiem]

I doubt it'd be that... All stats aren't created equal, after all.

Kamui doesn't need +DEF at all, There isn't a high enough demand for it. You could go +MAG and cheese your way through the early game one shotting stuff with Magicstones and then switch to whatever your secondary is once you get some members.

Honestly I think Kamui is tanky enough without +DEF I was able to tank stuff as Spellcaster with Felicia/Joker pair up it's very powerful.

[Rin]

Well, Dark Knight's weapon rank caps out at B, so your growth of your weapon rank would actually halt at B as a Dark Knight. Most unpromoted classes also cap out at B-ranks in many cases.

So from Nohr Prince, you could promote to White Blood, for example, and start with a B rank. In White Blood, you could work up to A. But if you switched to Dark Knight first before working to A, your sword rank growth would halt until you returned to a class like White Blood that allows A-rank.

Now, yes, you're right, you can gain weapon rank without leveling, so if we ignore Eternal Seals [raise level cap by 5 per use, but cost 6x the price of other seals], you could get +0.95 extra growths in STR as a Dark Knight, switch over to White Blood to gain +2 more STR in bases/caps [which should immediately increase your STR by 2], and then fill in the remaining weapon experience to get your A-rank, and yes, at 20/20 you could end up with slightly higher STR.

Now, in no-grind, you might not actually have time to do that, as you might not actually reach 20/20 in the first place and you then might be too close to the end of the game [barring an Arms Scroll].

But say, if you weren't using Eternal Seals and were keeping your units ending at 20/20 forever for some reason [like old Fire Emblem games without infinite leveling], yes, you could squeeze out, on average [variations in RNG means no guarantee] more STR overall this way.

Thank you so much for your explanation!

I think I'll still have to grind. I tried no grinding playthrough before, although it was really challenging and provides thrilling experience, I'm afraid that I'm not much of a hardcore player. I prefer to take it easy, but I do hope I make good decisions during the game as well. Thank you so much for helping me figure things out!

Anyway I noticed you want to marry Ryouma

I can advise on Ryouma bc I spend too many hours of my life analyzing his ass

I'd recommend going Oni as a subclass (even if you don't end up in it) for Ryouma, because out of classes he can't get from A+ it's one of the best classes he could ask for--He has a lot of innate critical, and Ogre Strike will skyrocket that, and Blacksmith is a solid sword-using class that he can opt into (his native Trueblade's probably still better for his own purposes) but it does provide him with Lancebreaker while allowing him to keep on using his OP as fuck sword. Shino gets Nohr Prince branch either way, so I'd recommend either passing him Ogre Strike or letting Ryouma do that just in case he wants it, because Shino is also in a +crit class and can potentially benefit from it, though his dad is better at critting than he is.

Depending on how much you want to grind --- because what I'm about to tell you is pretty impractical for nogrind, but if you're grinding or saving Shino for postgame, you can opt to A rank Midoriko and pass Shino Extravagance. He could technically just marry her and get it himself, and that's a valid option if you don't want the hassle, though that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth because of their apparent age difference. For Shino, either +Str or +Spd are both strong options for him, and it's ultimately up to you. For me, I prefer +str as an asset for my own purposes, but I feel Shino benefits from +Spd more because he has a lot of damage-boosting options just by existing and his personal speed growth is a little low, whereas his personal strength is pretty high. If you're going for an in-game no-postgame run instead, just pass him Dragon Fang.

However, since Ryouma can only get 1 A+ at a time, it's fine to pick something off his A+ list so you can A+ him to someone else, like picking Ninja (or hell, Herb merchant, it gives Copycat and Extravagance, so) so you can tape him to Marx forever bc otp (or Silas), or Cav if you want him to A+ Saizou or Takumi instead. All 3 classes he can get through A+ benefit him in some way.

Thank you! I'll be sure to try this out! I will probably grind for a bit, your advice is very much appreciated!

I can relate, I think I'll keep Midoriko single, she looks so young to me for marriage. Marrying units like Sakura or Elise off weird me out a bit as well (no offense), perhaps I'll try to keep them single by letting female Corrin marries a first Gen so I wouldn't miss a child (not like I'm planning to marry 2nd gen anyway).

Does anyone have suggestion on how to build Corrin to marry Kaze or Takumi? Maybe Marx/Xander and Leo too, if not too much of a trouble.

[Shephen]

+Str/-Luck Cavalier for Kaze

+Str/-Luck Ninja for Takumi

+Str/-Luck Samurai for Xander

+Mag/-Luck Spell Caster for Leo

[Shadow Mir]

Not enough power to delete/orko people I assume, and not as much high demand for earlygame extreme tanking; +Def isn't nearly as optimal on Hard, for example, because you don't need the level of near-invincibility +Def affords on L/+. In fact, if you get too tanky, enemies just ignore you.

I see. That said, being ignored sounds interesting, for better or for worse...

Kamui doesn't need +DEF at all, There isn't a high enough demand for it. You could go +MAG and cheese your way through the early game one shotting stuff with Magicstones and then switch to whatever your secondary is once you get some members.

Honestly I think Kamui is tanky enough without +DEF I was able to tank stuff as Spellcaster with Felicia/Joker pair up it's very powerful.

Maybe, but honestly, I think Dragonstones fall victim to "Awesome But Impractical" big time. They're good for finishing off weakened enemies, and not much else, unfortunately...

[Shadow Mir]

Not again...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Thor Odinson]

they're good for not getting flattened by ryouma in 0.5 seconds from what I've seen, for what it's worth, in 25 nohr

Edited January 9, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[NekoKnight]

they're good for not getting flattened by ryouma in 0.5 seconds from what I've seen, for what it's worth, in 25 nohr

I wouldn't describe Kamui as beefy, even while using a Dragon Stone. Surviving Ryoma is more about not being doubled than having high defense, from my experience.