Shephen Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I didn't add a pair up section for this since everyone aside from like Mozu gives great bonuses. Yeah people Rinka, Hinata and Kagerou have really amazing bonuses, but the rest are almost as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's not really that Shockstick is good on Tsubaki; it's just Javelins no longer doubling sucks and shifts the focus more on royals, tome, kunai users and also users of magical weapons. I wonder if +mag MU with a Bolt Axe can best Camilla at being a Revenant Knight in the Nohr path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) Isn't Rinkah a keeper for longterm use considering a lot of Hoshido is lowmanning with the juggernauts like Ryoma and MU? Just keep her paired up with whoever needs strength and a bit of bulk. Erm, lowmanning isn't as potent a strategy in this game as it was in previous FE games, I'm afraid... Or at the very least, I doubt it based on what I've read. Edited January 13, 2016 by Levant Colthearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Erm, lowmanning isn't as potent a strategy in this game as it was in previous FE games, I'm afraid... Or at the very least, I doubt it based on what I've heard. It's pretty legit on Hoshido and IK paths, and there is hardly a shortage of situations in Nohr where glueing somebody like Arthur or Charlotte to a royal or MU saves the day. The defensive potency of the defensive pair-up cannot be underestimated even on a lower difficulty (trivialising it further), and it does wonders to offence on enemy phase which you really don't want to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) It's pretty legit on Hoshido and IK paths, and there is hardly a shortage of situations in Nohr where glueing somebody like Arthur or Charlotte to a royal or MU saves the day. The defensive potency of the defensive pair-up cannot be underestimated even on a lower difficulty (trivialising it further), and it does wonders to offence on enemy phase which you really don't want to waste. I meant, given that you can only be like 5 levels above an enemy and after that, you get virtually nil in terms of experience yield... I'm not sure I'd want to be trying to lowman, lest I wind up with a weaker army overall (to say nothing of lowmanning in general being as exciting as watching paint dry). What is more, I think that people tend to undersell the downsides of pair up - this isn't Awakening. Edited January 13, 2016 by Levant Colthearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengerfive Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yea I was wondering; is it bad to have too many pairup bots? Like I was planning of training 6 units and each would have a pairup bot with them. It's probably a waste of exp/deployment slots and it might make things harder with having fewer units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shephen Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I mean you will get to the point where you are spreading yourself to thin and it ends up making things harder. Lowmanning in Birhtright doesn't work out to well since exp gain is pretty bad for the mid-game and then the density of the lategame is pretty wtf and the enemies are pretty strong. If you don't have enough good units, then routing everything just takes forever(especially given how Birthright does reinforcements). It is a better strat in the the IK since the enemies are so much more powerful than you for like the entire early game that you need focus exp into like 6 units and then have the Camilla/Xander/Ryoma/Leo and the eventual children fill the gaps. The Deployment situation for 15-17 doesn't help either since if a unit doesn't get deployed there then they are pretty much done for and can't catch up without grinding(and you only get like 8 slots). IK also being mostly Kill Boss/Seize also works better for under deploying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've never had a decent child that I've felt compelled to make a permanent part of my army on any of my runs. Is it because I keep marrying Felicia and Jakob most of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickthecommie Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've never had a decent child that I've felt compelled to make a permanent part of my army on any of my runs. Is it because I keep marrying Felicia and Jakob most of the time? Have you tried Effie's Velour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've never had a decent child that I've felt compelled to make a permanent part of my army on any of my runs. Is it because I keep marrying Felicia and Jakob most of the time? Yes. Growthwise at least. Also Shinonome, Matoi, and Hisame usually make the best units to have in your main army childwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Have you tried Effie's Velour? Elfie x Flannel? I've never considered that pairing. Elfie getting more speed is nice, but Flannel would also want more speed through Pair Up rather than extra strength and physical bulk, of which he already has enough. What will Velour have that Flannel lacks anyway? How much will you have to level both him and Elfie to get a good enough Velour; and if you level both enough, won't they be more than strong enough to not require being replaced by their child? Flannel namely, since he's the 1-range one-round KO machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Elfie x Flannel? I've never considered that pairing. Elfie getting more speed is nice, but Flannel would also want more speed through Pair Up rather than extra strength and physical bulk, of which he already has enough. What will Velour have that Flannel lacks anyway? How much will you have to level both him and Elfie to get a good enough Velour; and if you level both enough, won't they be more than strong enough to not require being replaced by their child? Flannel namely, since he's the 1-range one-round KO machine. It's a pretty amazing pairing. Flannel being locked to 1 range and having an unforgable weapon is kind of a PITA. Tbh as good his frontal combat is, he's better off supporting. After all, he is to female physical units what Charlotte is to male Physical units. Velour is pretty much a slightly less durable but faster Flannel but she's bulky enough. Still, no kids have ever had anything to offer over their trained parents with maxed support ranks. In Nohr Effie!Lutz is probably the easiest, earliest, most practical kid you could get aside from Servant!Kanna and early recuiting him gives you another statistically competent Flier by like C13 who can take his father for a support option which is nice so there's potential there but other than that I don't see much use for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Definitely trying Elfie!Lutz next time I replay Nohr. How does such a Lutz compare to Beruka in semi-efficient play? I don't get how you had any success with Servant!Kannas though. +mag MU + Felicia or something? I always get really atrocious ones that aren't good at either combat or pair up, but I can see how the right build and a timely reclass can help out and actually result in, uh, something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Definitely trying Elfie!Lutz next time I replay Nohr. How does such a Lutz compare to Beruka in semi-efficient play? I don't get how you had any success with Servant!Kannas though. +mag MU + Felicia or something? I always get really atrocious ones that aren't good at either combat or pair up, but I can see how the right build and a timely reclass can help out and actually result in, uh, something? Effie!Lutz is like, the best kid ever. He'd be better than Belka down the line, but they are pretty comparable at first. With some serious focus you could get Effie!Lutz by C13. I have a random play file on C14, checking the bases of Effie!Lutz who inherits Arthur's HP+5 and Effie's Defense +2 at that time (Effie is GK promoted as well, but I'm not sure that has much of an effect on his bases), he is level 14 with 30 HP, 16 Strength, 14 Skill, 12 Speed, 17 (capped) Luck, 20 Defense, 5 Resistance, and D rank axes, halfway to C. Belka's relevant level 14 averages are approx 26 HP, 17 (Str +2 skill included) Str, 17 Skill, 11 Speed, 12 Luck, 17 Defense, and 8 Res. A Belka that has been used to that point will definitely have C Axes though, but Lutz will have a readily available C support with Arthur that grows quickly due to them being related. Also for Servant!Kanna I just meant the easy and early part to apply to them since Kamui can marry the servant by like C11 or something crazy like that. Not so much practical for combat, but an early recruited +Mag Dia/Deere would give you another Troubadour to have around which is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Isn't Rinkah a keeper for longterm use considering a lot of Hoshido is lowmanning with the juggernauts like Ryoma and MU? Just keep her paired up with whoever needs strength and a bit of bulk. In spite of his nonexistent magic, I bet Tsubaki is a better Shocksticker than Falcoknight Sakura. Even with one Arms Scroll, it took such a long time to get her to C lances and when she did get there, her combat wasn't that good (namely the durability; magic was fine and speed was sky-high). You either go Sage or just stick to healing if you don't care about Sakura doing any fighting for you. I did like the flight though! Erm, lowmanning isn't as potent a strategy in this game as it was in previous FE games, I'm afraid... Or at the very least, I doubt it based on what I've read. Yep! The mechanics are set to ensure that you can never do that again. Even though that was the best way to study upon the units potential. Plus EXP reduction to 1exp (5 Levels Higher that you already pointed out!) further puts it to a screeching halt! I mean you will get to the point where you are spreading yourself to thin and it ends up making things harder. Lowmanning in Birhtright doesn't work out to well since exp gain is pretty bad for the mid-game and then the density of the lategame is pretty wtf and the enemies are pretty strong. If you don't have enough good units, then routing everything just takes forever(especially given how Birthright does reinforcements). It is a better strat in the the IK since the enemies are so much more powerful than you for like the entire early game that you need focus exp into like 6 units and then have the Camilla/Xander/Ryoma/Leo and the eventual children fill the gaps. The Deployment situation for 15-17 doesn't help either since if a unit doesn't get deployed there then they are pretty much done for and can't catch up without grinding(and you only get like 8 slots). IK also being mostly Kill Boss/Seize also works better for under deploying. You've just said the utmost valid strategy I've ever heard in Fates! That's right! Your children will get Child Seals if you pick them up late in the game! They will get these skills right off the bat when you get them. Pick them up once they come with a Child Seal. ----- There really is no tier on IK and Birthright. Unlimited EXP. Ayup! Yuugiri should be an Exorcist above all else for Moonlight's healing stacking along with her personnel! Edited January 15, 2016 by Lin_Lee_Koo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengerfive Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I mean, assuming you aren't grinding, you can make a tier list. But unit balanced is pretty good in Birthright and Conquest, so a tier list isn't too important. Nothing like the GBA games where some characters were absolutely useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I mean, assuming you aren't grinding, you can make a tier list. But unit balanced is pretty good in Birthright and Conquest, so a tier list isn't too important. Nothing like the GBA games where some characters were absolutely useless. does not take approve of unit discrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Effie!Lutz is like, the best kid ever. He'd be better than Belka down the line, but they are pretty comparable at first. With some serious focus you could get Effie!Lutz by C13. I have a random play file on C14, checking the bases of Effie!Lutz who inherits Arthur's HP+5 and Effie's Defense +2 at that time (Effie is GK promoted as well, but I'm not sure that has much of an effect on his bases), he is level 14 with 30 HP, 16 Strength, 14 Skill, 12 Speed, 17 (capped) Luck, 20 Defense, 5 Resistance, and D rank axes, halfway to C. Belka's relevant level 14 averages are approx 26 HP, 17 (Str +2 skill included) Str, 17 Skill, 11 Speed, 12 Luck, 17 Defense, and 8 Res. A Belka that has been used to that point will definitely have C Axes though, but Lutz will have a readily available C support with Arthur that grows quickly due to them being related. Also for Servant!Kanna I just meant the easy and early part to apply to them since Kamui can marry the servant by like C11 or something crazy like that. Not so much practical for combat, but an early recruited +Mag Dia/Deere would give you another Troubadour to have around which is nice. You could also wait for Elfie to pick up Luna (and even wait for Arthur to get Rally Strength) before doing Lutz's recruitment, I suppose... Pairing Arthur with FeMU could also be a pretty good idea considering MU is a champion of base stats in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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