Dragon's Dogma Thread

[Tryhard]

the pc port of dragon's dogma comes out tomorrow on steam and because I kinda passed over it a lot when I had it on console (I got to like level 30/40 or something) I'm gonna try and give it another go

add me on steam so I can nab your pawns nerds (it's Kelsper) ... or just talk about the game.

editing in a couple min/max things in case people don't know about them because you're stuck with your character as soon as you make them, they don't really matter since Dragon's Dogma is not an overly difficult game but it is useful to know about them:

weight and height actually do effect things in Dragon's Dogma, height for example effects weapon reach, the ability to dodge etc.

http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Height

weight is probably the more important and affects how much your character can carry, their speed and stamina consumption/restoration etc.

http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Weight

the classes in this game (called vocations) have dedicated stat gains that will occur. These are lessened after level 100, but will determine your characters leveled stats when you gain a level while currently in that vocation. As such, the most Physical Attack you can get is by going 1-10 as Fighter and then 10-200 (200 is max level) as Assassin because Assassin has the best physical attack gains. That's what I was planning to do since I enjoyed the Assassin vocation. Likewise, the absolute maximum Magic Attack you can get is 1-10 Mage and 10-200 Sorcerer.

http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Stat_Growths

The vocations that aren't Fighter, Strider or Mage can't be obtained until level 10. You can change vocations at the Gran Soren inn, which following the main quest usually takes you beyond level 10 if you've done some side quests by then, or from Olra when you can visit Bitterblack Isle. You can do this by visiting Cassardis pier at Nighttime and talking to her. This is a higher level area, so I wouldn't suggest staying here. That way you can change vocations as soon as possible, though it really isn't that necessary.

and lastly

WOLVES HUNT IN PACKS

Edited January 15, 2016 by Tryhard

[Disinnocence]

Apparently we might get a sequel.

I'm really hoping that this will be popular on PC to somewhat increase the chances of that happening. They're kind of stupid to not be making one already considering it's already pretty highly regarded, but whatever gets a sequel, I suppose.

My one suggestion is to NOT make the same mistake I made by keeping Rook until like level 20-25 where I realized he wasn't leveling up. Go throw him off a cliff or something after you've passed him.

[Knight Falchion]

the classes in this game (called vocations) have dedicated stat gains that will occur. These are lessened after level 100, but will determine your characters leveled stats when you gain a level while currently in that vocation. As such, the most Physical Attack you can get is by going 1-10 as Fighter and then 10-200 (200 is max level) as Assassin because Assassin has the best physical attack gains. That's what I was planning to do since I enjoyed the Assassin vocation. Likewise, the absolute maximum Magic Attack you can get is 1-10 Mage and 10-200 Sorcerer.

http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Stat_Growths

Yeah, I would definitely go assassin for most of the game, especially if you want to play on Hard. The Gouge and counter abilities the class gets are really nifty for taking down large monsters and mobs respectively, even though they take some time to unlock(vocation level 7 and 5 for the standard strength versions).

would add on steam, but i'm still a console pleb

WOLVES HUNT IN PACKS

TIS WEAK TO FIRE!

[Serpent of Sheol]

I am so ready to play a fully sick assassin.

I didn't play the 2013 console version, I heard it was kind of a mix between DMC and Shadow of the Colossus?

[Swift_Assassin]

I'd say that's a good comparison. I had DD Dark Arisen on 360, but didn't finish the game. I really wanted it on PC instead, so I'm happy about that coming over.

Watching TotalBiscuits Port Report on it now so hopefully it's good one.

[Tryhard]

The port seemed decent, other than it being a 2012/13 game and having outdated textures because it wasn't a rerelease. I'm kind of intrigued to see what mods do to it. I do kind of wish they offered multiple save files... I still have no idea why they didn't originally.

Yeah, I would definitely go assassin for most of the game, especially if you want to play on Hard. The Gouge and counter abilities the class gets are really nifty for taking down large monsters and mobs respectively, even though they take some time to unlock(vocation level 7 and 5 for the standard strength versions).

I'm not sure it matters so much, just that I liked the idea of going glass cannon mlg attack. There's certain daggers that use magic damage so even going a hybrid of Assassin and a magic class like Mystic Knight can supposedly be decent. Or just going through them all, I haven't really heard of people messing their characters up too much unless it was hard mode.

This was useful for actually calculating levels.

http://stackoverflow.github.io/dragons-dogma-stat-planner/

I am so ready to play a fully sick assassin.

I didn't play the 2013 console version, I heard it was kind of a mix between DMC and Shadow of the Colossus?

Monster Hunter too. I haven't really played DMC so I couldn't say for it.

[Knight Falchion]

I'm not sure it matters so much, just that I liked the idea of going glass cannon mlg attack. There's certain daggers that use magic damage so even going a hybrid of Assassin and a magic class like Mystic Knight can supposedly be decent. Or just going through them all, I haven't really heard of people messing their characters up too much unless it was hard mode.

I think it's more the skills that make the class strong than the stat growths, since I had a much better time going through Bitterblack Isle as an assassin than I did as a warrior even though warrior is also fun to play.

[Tryhard]

I've heard the same for Magick Archer. That the stat growths aren't that great for them but the class itself is really nice. I never had a chance to try it.

[Knight Falchion]

Yeah, Magick Archer has some pretty good skills, and I've heard the same for Mystic Knight. I haven't spent too much time with either myself, but they're both really popular for Bitterblack Isle and its final boss.

[Tryhard]

gawd every game doesn't need to be like Dark Souls.

It's like Dark Souls in a couple aspects, like dropping you in a world and you not knowing wtf is going on, the combat is nice because you can climb on monsters and you have a stamina bar. It's fun, though you shouldn't really expect the bleak atmosphere or lore behind it, the plot from what I played was quite standard IMO. It's one of those games that deserved to get popular like Dark Souls but just never really did.

I wouldn't say it's like Dark Souls other than it being a Japanese Western-Inspired RPG like DS.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Tryhard

[Knight Falchion]

But I'll still play it. How similar is it to dark souls though.

The combat can be pretty unforgiving and stamina management is important, more so on hard where stamina consumption is doubled for climbing on monsters and skill moves. The way the combat plays out is different since you have basic attacks that don't consume any stamina, but the more powerful skill moves do. Dodging enemy attacks primarily involves running away and moving around as opposed to a dodge roll, though dagger wielders do have access to a dodge roll after a point.

Bitterblack Isle and the post-game are the most similar to Dark Souls since they involve dungeon crawling, difficult enemies, and large bosses.

also what tryhard said

[secondworld]

This was a game I was interested in since it's initial release, but never had the chance to play.

Well, I still won't be to for a while due to money-related issues, but hey, it's no longer on the "no chance" list.

[Dwlr]

I'd like to say it kind of does matter what level you change vocations if you're going for a specific build at least.

[spoiler=Just a heads up]On Bitterblack Isle your pawn all pawns can be instantly killed without a chance to revive them by certain attacks, you can generally interrupt these attacks by packing Explosive Arrows to stun the creatures that can perform them.

With Bitterblack the Assassin's perks for being alone and traveling at night were hit pretty hard, hard enough to not really merit the perk IMO.

Mage pawns with Legion's Might are effectively immortal, this negates the need for armor so you can focus on aesthetics. Mages are the only class that can heal though they have limited healing abilities and can only heal upto the portion of health that isn't completely lost, still a Mage Pawn with Legion's Might tends to be of more use than a Sorcerer Pawn just for the immortality factor and the majority of your damage can come from you stat growths. Legion's Might does not keep other pawns from trying to save a dead Mage nor does it revive a Mage that is instantly sent back to the rift (obviously)

The class you are when you level is the stat gain you get regardless of how much time you spend as other classes if you're trying for a certain build just reclass before you level, it's free to return to classes you have already been before.

Pawns are more efficient with tier 1 magic skills than leveled skills pawns as a pawn will always try to use the highest tier of a skill available and often times as a result will be interrupted and end up not casting anything at all.

The strongest weapon in the game is always one with an enchantment even for a dedicated Assassin a weapon with an element hits well above it's rank compared to those with no enchantment at all. Make sure all your pawns always have enchanted weapons barring the rare circumstance where the Physical Damage + Strength stat is higher than the combination of your Magic stat + Strength stat + Physical Damage + Magical Damage, even then it's worth noting having any element at all will allow you to fight ghosts where a pure physical weapon cannot harm them. Boon's help allow use of your Magic stat for the duration they are active, but permanently enchanted weapons still tend to be better at all times. *There are Elemental Bows with the expansion on Bitterblack Isle*

Strider Pawns are better than Ranger Pawns, Pawns do not attack from their most effective range this means that Striders with their shortbows are usually in their sweet spot whereas Ranger pawns tend to be too close to the enemy and thus suffer a penalty to damage with their ranged weapons.

All Running Speed is the same however a taller character walks faster than a shorter one.

Heavy characters are able to weigh down flying enemies and maintain grip better than smaller ones, the benefit of light characters is negligible as Liquid Vim gives you infinite stamina and Mushrooms are relatively lightweight for the stamina they can give, obviously a heavy character can take more of these items without a penalty as well.

Very short characters can use goblin tunnels, but there isn't really a big benefit to merit the use of a tiny character over a tall one.

Taking a Strider or Ranger's dagger IS A BAD IDEA, there were reports that taking their physical weapons would force them to use their bows, this is entirely 100% untrue, they'll simply punch the enemy instead of using their bow or daggers.

Warrior pawns tend to miss more often than they hit as they don't take into account the attack animation a Fighter will do much more damage and is more durable.

Statistically speaking you maximize your damage by either going Pure Magic focused or Pure Strength focused even if you want to switch classes from a Magic class to a physical one you do not want a hybrid class this will simply reduce your damage, however if you are playing a Physical Class with a Magic Build simply make sure you have an Enchanted Weapon and your damage will be higher than hybrid builds. The most damage you can achieve is through a dedicated Assassin Build even with it's low magic growth the second highest is a dedicated Sorcerer build the later allows you to use Magic Classes at the highest potential and Physical Classes at the second highest damage whereas the Assassin build makes you extremely lackluster in a Magic Class so if you want to switch around, pick the Sorcerer route.

There is a cap to the amount of damage you can add to your attacks in any one category i.e if you take all the Physical Damage skills you'll hit the cap, you can do more Damage by taking the best physical boosting skills and the best magic boosting skills assuming you are a Physical class and not a magic class as the latter has no use of a Physical component. (In layman's terms Boosting Magic Damage +50% and Physical Damage +50% is better than Boosting Physical Damage +75% even on the Assassin note this means Damage not the skills that modifier you Strength or Magic stat that's different.)

The Strider has the highest damage potential of all the characters so the strongest possible character is a Fighter from 1-10, and the Assassin from 11-200 then returning to the Strider class.

[Tryhard]

To the above, I've also heard that focusing on pure DPS is ineffective as you're usually forsaking HP, stamina or defense.

http://i.imgur.com/H9OjVuz.jpg

Doesn't really sound worth it even if it would be the highest DPS tbh.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Tryhard

[Dwlr]

To the above, I've also heard that focusing on pure DPS is ineffective as you're usually forsaking HP, stamina or defense.

http://i.imgur.com/H9OjVuz.jpg

Doesn't really sound worth it even if it would be the highest DPS tbh.

*It was pretty late when I wrote this so if I repeat myself or ramble I apologize, the bullets at the bottom cover the points though if it's hard/confusing to read the full.*

Max attack you really survivability. Defense doesn't actually matter tbh, it's the HP that's going to be what kills you, but you certainly aren't sacrificing Stamina growths, Assassin gives quite a bit. An arisen that played a Fighter for all 200 levels is built for durability not attack, the Sorcerer is built for Magic it's not providing the highest damage for an enchanted bow, it's providing the second highest and the Sorcerer's overall growths are below that of the Assassin's. A Mixed vocation is going to make you poor in everything, it isn't close to ideal for anything. Magic Defense isn't very important as I mentioned it's about HP not defense since your Gold Rarified Armor makes anybody's natural defense look pointless if you're not worry about aesthetics and just using the best gear and Assassin's HP growth aren't the lowest. That image is severely skewed not catering to the Assassin which it even mentions that it's not including an Assassin because they have stats 'tailored to the weapon being displayed"

A min-maxed Assassin gets 3200 HP that's 1-10 as Fighter then Assassin rest of the way, min-maxed Sorcerer's HP of 3048. As the Assassin you don't really need the HP you can use Blast Arrows to interrupt and even a min-maxed survivability build can die in a single shot too so it's kind of pointless to focus on survivability that literally gets you nothing end game when the Assassin/Sorcerer's HP gets you by the majority of things you're going to run into. Whereas if you focus on Damage over the moot survivability you have a better shot at interrupting and killing before being killed. Keep in mind that a dedicated Strider (the jack of all trades) only gets you 3405 HP so you really have to focus on survivability to get anything substantially higher than the low end HPs. If you just care about inflated numbers than the Fighter is the only one that gives you that 37HP and 20HP HP growth is second highest and the stamina growth is good as well, but you're only getting 1 more Defense than the Assassin per level from 11-100 so like I said you're not sacrificing Defense and the only argument is the HP.

Now you said you were sacrificing HP, Stamina, or Defense. Yeah sure, but if you go with any of them you're not going to get 'everything'. Magic is pretty slow any decent human player should be able to avoid it so I'm going to ignore it (but you the Fighter Class is only getting 2 per level from 11-100 vs 1 and then gets 0 per level from 101-200 just like the Assassin). Defense is also pretty moot, while it comes into play more often you don't get enough from your base stats to really amount to anything and there are several instant-death attacks and several attacks that only a dedicated fighter can withstand and they can't withstand 2. The defense from your armor lets you deal with your every day threats and you're in less danger being able to kill most of them before they can do any real damage. A full Damage build can kill a Hellhound in one Volley for instance and a lot of people seem to have trouble with them (for some reason). Assassin's get the second highest Stamina Growth, but as I mentioned Stamina is a moot stat as well because of Liquid Vim and Mushrooms being plentiful so your real best class is the Warrior gaining the highest HP and 5 Atk per stage for 11-100 and then switching to the Assassin for 3 Atk per level from 101-200 you fall short of the min-maxed Assassin by 90 attack and gain substantial HP, but like I said even that 18 HP per level for those 90 levels is moot in the hardest parts of the game as is your defense so with the Assassin you get a stat you can actually use in those regions and the rest of the game where HP might matter the Assassin can survive. With skills you can turn that 90 attack into a higher benefit as the buffs are % based whereas the survivability skills are fixed value, if you really need extra life you have that option to take it, but alternatively a dedicated Fighter Pawn can serve as a tank drawing aggro so you don't have. As for the Sorcerer build, you take that on your pawn, magic is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, but Mage pawns min-maxed for Magic are going to appreciate the extra damage when they turn back into a Mage in the end to use Legion's Might which as I mentioned makes them effectively immortal unless they were sent instantly to the rift, the role you pawns can't perform is the role of a ranged physical damage dealer. Assassin's also get utility skills to get around it, Strider's get sheer damage skills that one-hit kill, Ranger's get Longbows that have additional force and distance potential for stun-locking.

tl;dr

-HP is moot in the hardest areas even if you min-max for it.

-Attack is always useful and can be increased by percents making the benefits larger.

-Blast Arrows can stun lock to avoid taking damage which damage dealt plays a factor in stunning.

-The HP of either a Sorcerer or Assassin is fine for the weaker enemies.

-Defense is mostly gained through gear the amount you get from your Stats isn't going to be very useful.

-Magic is easily avoidable so Magic Defense is moot

-Assassins get the second highest Stamina gain (even though Stamina is moot thanks to Liquid Vims)

-Range physical damage dealers can't be easily filled by the AI since they treat Striders or Rangers as primarily Melee classes. (Which Striders are quite lethal with their daggers, but that's still not filling that gap)

-Sorcerer Pawns can revert to Mages in the end sacrificing Damage for immortality and thus need the Base Magic to maintain their effectiveness since Legion's Might isn't particularly strong.

-Damage > HP for most endgame areas and non-endgame areas are easier.

------

lvl HP Stamina Attack Def Magick Magick Defense

Sorcerer

@ 200 3048 3070 258 177 866 657

Assassin

@ 200 3200 4650 956 387 258 168

Strider

@ 200 3405 4515 467 467 467 368

Edited January 15, 2016 by Dwlr

[Tryhard]

I could understand most of it. Like I said I didn't have too much experience in the game previously. I would like to mess about with whatever vocations now that I think about it so I suppose I really shouldn't care if attack/magick stats are the same. I'll start with Assassin and then maybe put Sorcerer or Warrior levels in later on and come out with a pretty balanced amount across the board.

It should be unlocked on Steam for everyone who has it now. Probably making a mage pawn.

[Dwlr]

I could understand most of it. Like I said I didn't have too much experience in the game previously. I would like to mess about with whatever vocations now that I think about it so I suppose I really shouldn't care if attack/magick stats are the same. I'll start with Assassin and then maybe put Sorcerer or Warrior levels in later on and come out with a pretty balanced amount across the board.

It should be unlocked on Steam for everyone who has it now. Probably making a mage pawn.

Sorcerer leveling is just bad overall, the only reason you want to use them and I mean the ONLY reason you want to be a magic class. The Fighter gets the innate HP advantage over the other classes which can be nice early early on, but the first 10 levels stat gain wise the Mage is decent. I'd recommend trying out the Mage during this time rather than using your main growth levels of 11-100, outside of that try to switch to the Sorcerer at level 101 so you don't hurt your growth rates, after level 100 all stat growths slow way down and the Sorcerer takes less of a loss compared to the other classes so it's the better time to 'waste' levels. The Warrior makes early game easier, but in the end like I said the HP doesn't actually help you survive and the Defense isn't significant at all so if you're going to go the Warrior route class change into the Warrior early where those benefits actually make a difference.

Advice:

Start as the Mage to see if you're going to like the Magic classes they're all basic derivations of the Mage you can use at the beginning. (Most don't like the Mage and I personally found them boring as well, basically the game auto aims for you, this includes the Magic Archers 'arrows') The Warrior's heavy HP gain can help you survive early on if, you're going that route do it early where it matters. The Assassin gets decent Attack growth after level 101 with no real losses, if you want a 'balanced' character switch to the Assassin then since Stamina truly doesn't matter at all mushrooms are everywhere (best weight to stamina regen ratio), just make sure your character is large enough to carry them and not anorexic. If you do go the anorexic route for aesthetics (like I did) then you're going to be over-encumbered a lot so make sure you either create a heavy pawn as a mule or higher one.

Pawn:

Legion's Might is DLC or was on the console, I'm not sure what you're going to get with the Steam release, but if you don''t have Legion's Might in your storage (you can check your storage at the innkeeper in the first town) then I'd recommend NOT using a Mage. Mage pawns with healing are much more common than a Strider Pawns that are actually built as Melee Damage dealers instead of trying to use their bow as the inept AI. Strider Pawns deal the most damage by far if they are built as a Melee class that occasional uses bows. If you're wanting to cover all the roles then you should select the Strider. If you get Legion's Might then it's EXTREMELY difficult to find a Mage pawn that uses it as the actual stats of the weapon are quite low so people replace it with stronger versions when given how frail Mages are you tend to save yourself HP and having a pawn that is up more often serves as a distraction or truthfully deals more damage since even the Mages with the best armor die pretty much any time you don't immediately kill all the archers in a group it's just easier to have them self resurrect. If you're still going the Mage route like I mentioned before ONLY BUY THE LEVEL 1 skills, the higher tier skills may do more damage, but they will massively hurt your DPS and will cause your Mage pawn to die even more frequently than they already do.

tl;dr

If you have Legion's Might sure go Mage, but make sure you use the staff despite it being weak stat wise otherwise go Strider.

Pawn skill advice:

Mages leave all abilities at level 1 and take 1 attack skill of each element, the AI will usually use the element that gives you and advantage over the enemy. Healing skill is kind of the point of a Mage skill wise. You can take the higher tier skills that enchant your weapons if you so choose they do give you a stronger enchantment and they tend to not span the skill unless you call out for help and you can do that before the battle to gain the enchantment. Fire Boon is good early on, but Holy Boon ends up being the best by far. (all the boons are near useless on Bitterblack though)

Sorcerer leave all abilties at level 1 and again take 1 attack skill of each element. Sorcerers deal more damage and get better stat gains, but can't heal they so however get the only skill that can cure Petrifaction/Petrification. (however you wish to spell it)

*All other classes beside the Magic users should upgrade their skills*

Strider take only 2 dagger skills to turn them into the best Melee Damage dealers they can be, Hundred Kisses and Helm Splitter. In terms of Bow Skills the AI can use the Area of Effect skills without stopping in mid battle which makes them quite strong with it. Cloudburst Volley and 3-fold arrow are the best, but if you want 3 bow skills take Whistle Dart. Whistle Dart stuns weaker nuisance monsters for convenience and isn't going to hurt your damage for the harder enemies too much when they choose to use it instead of their 'better' skills. *Contrary to popular advice Splinter Dart tends to miss, whilst it is strong taking it tends to hurt your pawns damage in most cases.*

Ranger is inferior to a Strider for 3 reasons, lack of the extremely powerful Helm Splitter and the AI tends to stay close to the enemy thus their "stronger" bows actually are weaker than the short bows due to the range they're used at and finally they lack Clouburst Volley, which if you don't have to aim it which the AI doesn't need to really it's extremely strong and can be the most damaging bow skill if you give them Blast Arrows. If you're using a Ranger crowd control is your best bet.

Dagger Skills: Scarlet Kisses, Dazzle Hold, and Toss and Trigger

Bow Skills: Flying Din, Gamble Draw (The AI is extremely strong with this skill), and 6-fold Arrow

Warrior should be avoided at all cost, Warrior pawns miss a lot and don't have the aggro drawing skills that the Fighter does.

Fighter is only useful as a tank.

Sword Skills: Blink Strike, Skyward Lash (for flying enemies otherwise they tend to just walk in circles), Dragon's Maw (Dragon's Maw has invincibility frames that the AI can use pretty well relatively to other their other skills

Shield Skills: Shield Summons, (more or less essential to serve as a 'tank') Shield Strike, (breaks enemy guards for you) Perfect Defense (Pawns are affected less by attack stamina use than the Player and Perfect Defense makes them a better 'tank')

[Tryhard]

Well I already went ahead with my character, I just made them 1-10 Fighter and Assassin after that, level 15 currently. I meant to say my pawn was 1-10 Mage and is now a Sorcerer but I did already get some High skills, it's not really something I'm too worried about considering. Legion's Might you can get, but it's from the Black Cat for a pretty absurd amount of money along with what I assume is the other DLC weapons, not from storage.

Edit: If you guys do want a Sorcerer pawn then you can add me on Steam and I might keep a list of pawns from others and steam names if others are willing to share.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Tryhard

[Knight Falchion]

Yeah, Mountebank is the only way to get the DLC weapons and they're way too overpriced for what they do. Well, for most of them. On Hard I had a good time spending my extra gold in a Griffinsbane bow.

[Dwlr]

Well I already went ahead with my character, I just made them 1-10 Fighter and Assassin after that, level 15 currently. I meant to say my pawn was 1-10 Mage and is now a Sorcerer but I did already get some High skills, it's not really something I'm too worried about considering. Legion's Might you can get, but it's from the Black Cat for a pretty absurd amount of money along with what I assume is the other DLC weapons, not from storage.

Yeah the black cat on the console version sold second sets, but you got the initial set for free in storage. In the standard I know you couldn't get them without the DLC and already having them before Dark Arisen came out I assumed they were still unobtainable unless it's a Steam version 'perk'. Legion's Might is worth it money is a non-issue later especially if you only skip from enchanted weapon to enchanted weapon for your character, that'll save you quite a bit of money and keep your actual attack damage higher, the first one you get is the Scalding Razors which being Fire gets that added benefit on most of the early enemies too.

Which skills did you level already? You get a secondary set of skills later that you can keep in their lower versions so if you just got the early skills leveled right now then you can keep the others lower and still be in fine shape.

If you don't need the HP early on then the Assassin has the most useful stat growths so if you're finding the difficulty fine right now, just keep down that route. You can safely switch to the Sorcerer at 101, but when you get some levels behind you you'll be able to class change to start gathering some augments from the other classes without leveling up in that class.

*Remember Legion's Might only works for the Mage vocation it's not an Archstaff, I'd also like to point out that the basic vocations are not worse by any means compared to the advanced or hybrid vocations if you weren't already aware of that.*

You'll probably want to find 2 fighter pawns since it's hard to find a good Strider pawn in the rift and a poor one doesn't offer much really, of course if you change vocation you'll want to keep a ranged physical damage dealer on your team in some way shape or form if nothing else for flying enemies.

The other worthwhile Black Cat item is Iraklis (if you stick to a physical vocation), Brutish Wall (if you're competent at evading Magic the Brutish Wall can offer more defense than other shields for a decent while.), Bezel Crown (if you want to speed leveling). Everything else gets outclassed, though it is worth mentioning if you use Legion's Might the Ancient Armor Set while lacking in defense gives quite a bit of Status resists across the board making it some of the best armor for a Legion's Might Mage Pawn.

[spoiler=Warnings]Make sure to duplicate the Wyrmking's Ring and give the Forgery to the King not the real one, the real Wyrmking's Ring is far greater than the cloak you get for turning in the real ring as holding it in your inventory speeds your casting times, since you're using High skills already if you can use the low versions of the later skills then giving it to your pawn will be that much more important.

The Lady's Garb can disguise a male as a female for a certain group of female bandits

Make sure you make forgeries of Ophis's and Maul's Badges, they both function the same just having them in your inventory reduces the enemies in each area respectively making traveling more convenient.

Make Sure you make a forgery of the Gold Idol, but give the shop the real one. The forgery still confers a discount in the shops, but using a forgery for the quest won't unlock the extra shop items.

Madeline's shop can disappear from the game permanently and she offers some of the best purchasable gear in the main game. (The women exclusive items have exaggerated high stats that are well above the standard other armors)

[spoiler=For the perverts]And since the general trend is trying to get the skimpiest armor possible, I'll just say that the most revealing piece of armor is the Trophy Jacket, if you don't have a Clothing Set under it, it removes the default wrap around your character revealing the most chest region. The Frame Plate can be found pretty early if you know where to look and it's pretty revealing (and extremely functional for a long time) and the Berserkin reveals quite a bit in terms of the chest region and is one of the strongest armors in the main game.

Suasion on your Pawn does offer the cost reduction and makes your pawn more appealing for low level characters to hire.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dwlr

[Tryhard]

It looks like you just don't get a free set in your storage in this version of the game, and it's only available from the Black Cat unless I'm somehow wrong, because I definitely didn't have more than a few starting sets of armor and a few other things in there.

Which skills did you level already? You get a secondary set of skills later that you can keep in their lower versions so if you just got the early skills leveled right now then you can keep the others lower and still be in fine shape.

I think the ones I got were High Ingle, High Levin, High Miasma. I didn't notice but the ring she has on actually makes her High Ingle into Grand Ingle. I assume this is only temporary.

I have Suasion too, it's pretty nice. And yeah, I knew about Sorcerer not being able to use Legion's Might and base classes not necessarily being "worse".

Thanks for the advice in everything else. I think I'll stick with Assassin and Sorcerer respectively for now.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Tryhard

[Dwlr]

It looks like you just don't get a free set in your storage in this version of the game, and it's only available from the Black Cat unless I'm somehow wrong, because I definitely didn't have more than a few starting sets of armor and a few other things in there.

I think the ones I got were High Ingle, High Levin, High Miasma. I didn't notice but the ring she has on actually makes her High Ingle into Grand Ingle. I assume this is only temporary.

I have Suasion too, it's pretty nice. And yeah, I knew about Sorcerer not being able to use Legion's Might and base classes not necessarily being "worse".

Thanks for the advice in everything else. I think I'll stick with Assassin and Sorcerer respectively for now.

The Wyrmking's Ring isn't an equipment, you merely place it in the inventory of the user you want to reduce casting time. The rings that increase skills on Mages also increase the time they need to cast the skill for little gain. Articulacy stacks with the Wyrmking's Ring as well if you were wondering.

If you're going to leave her as a Sorcerer Brontide, Bolide, and Seism as your main set are the ones you'll want. Brontide being the most important.

Fire Boon/Fire Affinity (early game replace with Holy late game), Voidspell (Needs to be High), and Gicel.

Avoid Maelstrom unless you're a Sorcerer casting it too and want the Pawn to mirror it, Pawns will almost always block your vision with Maelstrom even if it's one of the strongest skills in the game. Keep Comestion low though if you ever want to equip a skill that quickly kills weaker annoying enemies like Harpies then Comestion is quick casting and reaches higher than the animation suggests hitting harpies, I'd use Ingle, but the point of Ingle was to keep the cast time as low as possible for your pawn to have a very quick spell.

When/if you go back to a Mage take

Main: Comestion, Brontide, Frigor

Sub: Anondyne (no point in High Anondyne it's benefits are marginal and it will take more time if you pawn uses it during battle), Fire Boon/Fire Affinity (Anodyne already applies the healing effect that is a side of effect of holy enchantments so you can replace it for slightly more damage per hit later or keep Fire for the status effect), High Halidom (Does not cure Petrifaction like Voidspell does, but still useful for clearing some debilitation.)

The Mage Pawns will make better use out of utility rings than ones that enhance their offensive spells, all the others can use skill rings just fine and as a sorcerer you can use them fine as well since you can cut casting early whereas they do not. Knockback accessories are useful on Mages using Comestion instead of Ingle and since you can't go back to Ingle from High Ingle you may want to consider stacking Knockback and using Comestion for stagger reasons even if the damage is lackluster the cast time is quick and the base knockback is high. As for yourself an Assassin or Ranger that makes use of the bows instead of primarily the Daggers appreciate knockback as well the Ranger especially since their main benefit is the higher knockback of their bows, using knockback accessories you can save your Blast Arrows for the harder enemies only since the base knockback is passable when boosted for most things.

-

I guess I should give some details about my current character and past characters for content sake.

My current character is an anorexic female with a slightly less anorexic female pawn (for gameplay reasons I only hire female pawns to have an all female party). My character is a min/maxed Assassin with my Pawn being a min/maxed Sorcerer in terms of growths, but is always uploaded as a Legion's Might Mage when I sleep at the inn. The reason I say my character is anorexic is both my pawn and Arisen are very light characters despite 63kg and 61kg respectively and they're both the equivalent of over 6 feet (6'2 and 6'3) respectively so my Arisen is 6'3 138 lbs and the ideal healthy weight for a female that is 6'3 is about 179 or at the very least above 159 so fairly malnourished. For speed reasons my pawns are my pack mules carrying most junk while I carry just my equipped items most of the time that includes not carrying any sort of restoratives or arrows, my pawn who I don't keep at Very Light carries the Wyrmking's Ring important items I want to stay in my party and not be without if I send a pawn away such as a few skeleton keys and carries a few group health restoratives.

My arisen to save weight uses armor that is well below the ideal in terms of defense and partly for aesthetics. My current outfit is:

Head - Dragonpulse Circlet

Torso Armor - Frame Plate

Torso Clothing - Silver Chestplate

Leg Clothing - Leather Bindings (I realize there are better versions of armor in this style, but the leg parts on the others show above my boots)

Leg Armor - Fine Over-Knee Boots (Brown to match the Frameplate)

Arm Armor - Leather Gloves (Brown to match the rest)

Cloak - Monomi Neck Wrap (Covers the chest region left open by the Frameplate)

Jewelry - Barbed Nails (Knockback used defensively, but honestly IMO the best jewelry short of skill rings with skills you really like)

Jewelry - Barbed Nails (Will end up with a Strider's Band for Brain Splitter and Soaring Stone when I change class)

For weapons I'm using the non-ideal Dowsing Rods out of laziness in gathering loot (even though I know where the majority of chests are by memory and they're not hard to find to begin with), but I carry a pair of Sapfire Daggers and Dragon's Ire (Best bow in the game Damage-wise as the Magic component allows the use of your magic stat in damage calculations even though Darkening Storm is ~200 Physical Attack higher than both the Magic and Physical Attack component of Dragon's Ire combined).

For my Pawn I focus entirely on aesthetics even when she's in her Sorcerer class leveling because I'm too lazy to switch them and just like the look of the Ancient Robes

Head - Ancient Circlet

Torso Armor - Ancient Robe

Torso Clothing - Lady's Corset (Literally just for the strings in the front the rest is hidden entirely behind the Ancient Robe)

Leg Clothing - Silk Lingerie (Ancient Robe is full body for the most part so the Silk Lingerie just keeps anything else from showing up)

Leg Armor - Ancient Greaves

Arms Armor - Ancient Bangles

Cloak - Feather Cape

Weapon - Sanguine Stalk

I personally have an affinity for the bows and they're my favorite to use so I had a Ranger character before my current Assassin, but the Ranger's stat gains are pretty bad, but this was before there were enchanted bows in the original Dragon's Dogma (without Bitterblack) so all that Magic was effectively wasted for the play style I preferred. Swords > Daggers, but Swords IMO kind of need the shield in combination otherwise you lose your blocking ability and don't have a Dodge like you do with daggers. After the Ranger I had a Fighter with Strider Augments for climbing, it was entertaining but ultimately was pointless outside of the amusement value, throw the Gloves of Might on it and you're pretty much spiderman, my Fighter was a portly chap with a moustache. The final character I had before my Assassin was a min-height Sorcerer just to explore the goblin tunnels for myself and there was no point to it at all and it affected what ledges you can reach making traversal kind of annoying. My pawns were a Warrior with my Ranger, Strider with my Fighter and a Sorcerer with my Sorcerer to combo-cast with.

Sorcerer Pawn was the most useful, but only because of the combo-cast ability speeding up cast times and damages, if you aren't a Sorcerer then the Strider was the most useful by far especially after HP became kind of irrelevant a 'tank' pawn is just useful for pulling aggro whilst you stun the enemy be shooting it in the back or something. A Warrior built Fighter pawn could be useful having the highest Health growth and higher Str growths. Pawns get hit by Magic quite a bit and Magic Defense becomes an issue for Pawns only since even endgame Magic can be blocked and survived given the right Armor and/or stats so in that regard you can build a pawn in such a way that survivability has an effect on them anywhere you go, but even then Damage > Durability, Pawns can be rescued just costing you a bit of time so there's nothing wrong with a glass cannon Pawn. While a Pawn's stamina mechanics are kind of goofy they can still make good use of a high Stamina stat when talking about Great Gamble (converts stamina available into Damage) outside of that Stamina doesn't mean much to them either even if you don't give them restoratives for Stamina. Because enchanted weapons are a thing in every category now you need only look at the total growth of Str and Mag, I'd also consider HP and M.Def as a secondary combined stat (for your pawn only) and use gear that increases Magic Defense over gear that increases Physical Defense for you pawn since after a certain point Physical Attacks will either be moot or too strong to effectively block anyway whereas Magic Attacks will actually hit your pawn and even minor ones can be a threat to the pawn who is built without M.Def/Res

To that effect Warriors are the best growth for Pawns from 10-100 as they get +7 Damage and +40 HP per level from level 100+ they should switch to the Sorcerer getting +10 HP (only beaten by the Fighter) and still getting +3 Damage and getting +1 Magic Defense. The ending classes for Pawns should be either Striders or Mages. Warriors, Sorcerers, Rangers, and Fighters lose utility, damage, magic resistance, or a combination comparatively. Warriors are never really useful their strong attacks mean nothing when they miss more oft than not and they have no useful skills for the party. A Fighter's ability to draw aggro and serve as a physical tank becomes useless when even relatively weak Magic can melt a Pawn's HP and the physical threats become too strong for even the stoutest of pawns. Both Fighters and Warriors get Physical gear which compounds this issue. Ranger's bows are simply inferior to the Strider's Shortbow in the range the AI tends to stay at couple this with worse Dagger Skills (some skills that a vocation normally can't learn crossover, but Helm Splitter isn't one of them that can be used by other vocations sharing that weapon class) so they're simply not as a good. The Ranger does find niche use as a harasser or if you went the Stamina growth route the Pawn basically has perfect accuracy with Great Gamble for a one-time occasional nuke during a fight (Strong enough to instantly take 2 full bars off a certain someone). Sorcerer has more damage and can cure petrifaction, but the Mage's ability to self-revive to serve as a more permanent distraction and ability to heal (white health) is more than enough to take the Mage over the Sorcerer.

Mage - Weak magic attacks since Legion's Might is pretty bad, but even weak magic attacks can spread their status effect benefits and they're still strong enough they're never a liability especially when min/maxed as a Sorcerer. Curing most debilitations, healing, and enchanting weapons is just icing on the cake.

Strider - High Damage skills, much higher attack frequency from the ai than a Fighter who tends to stand around blocking instead of doing anything, area of effect skills, and the AI is a great shot when targeting flying enemies. The light armor helps them stay alive when facing magic users such as Dragons or Wights which would kill Warriors or Fighters. (Dragon's can instantly kill Pawns anyway regardless of health or ability, but the Breath attacks can ravage 'tank' attempts and Maelstrom can outright kill an HP oriented pawn using heavy armor.) That's not even to say Hellhounds, Evil Eyes, and most of Bitterblack which Striders can all help to stun at a distance or survive their magic assaults better than any Fighter or Warrior. Their daggers and shortbows also give them advantages on quick enemies compared to Sword or 2H users.

What I look for in my personal team is:

1 Mage (My personal pawn since it's hard to find a Legion's Might Pawn) *I'm at a high enough level on my current run that I can use my Pawn as a Mage without worrying about them leveling up as one.

2 Striders

For the Striders I rule out any pawn that doesn't have Helm Splitter or a variation of it right away, then I look for Cloudburst Volley or a variation of it. Icing on the cake is Scarlet Kisses and no other Dagger skills, but if they have Biting Wind that's fine or if they have skills like Dazzle Blast that's fine too if I can't find Striders that have Helm Splitter and Cloudburst I tend to look for harasser Rangers or a Sorcerer with High Voidspell and hopefully basic versions of the attacking skills.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dwlr

[Tryhard]

Did you mean give the Gold Idol to Madeline's shop or Caxton after you make a forgery since you can't get both until NG+? Since I haven't really played up to the point where I used their inventories much before I was unsure which one was generally better aside from Madeline selling good female armor.

[Dwlr]

Did you mean give the Gold Idol to Madeline's shop or Caxton after you make a forgery since you can't get both until NG+? Since I haven't really played up to the point where I used their inventories much before I was unsure which one was generally better aside from Madeline selling good female armor.

Madeline generally has better stuff. You can get everything from other locations, but Madeline's shop items are found latter in the game (not much latter in terms of time, but the locations which they are found are after a difficulty spike and is much harder than anything you face before the area) than Caxton's items are. Madeline's shop is geared for Females and the weapons are Daggers. Caxton offers a more diverse selection of weapons, but no additional armor for anybody. They both offer Galvanic Razors after the Gold Idol, but Madelena offers the Kunai can deal 10x the damage and they're pretty rare to find outside of her shop. It should be noted that Caxton sells weapons better than everything he gains from giving him a gold item after you beat the main game making giving it to him pretty pointless in the long run it just offers weapons for every class slightly earlier.

The Flameskirt, Sultry Cowl, and Sultry Pareo can all be used endgame and are sold after giving Madeline the Gold Idol. A lot of people like the aesthetics of the Flameskirt as well.

tl;dr

Give it to Madeline, better items that take longer to find in their alternative locations.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Dwlr

[B.Leu]

Holy crap, you guys talk about complicated stuffs like stats calculation, I never bothered with it... mostly because it was too late for me, eh. :p

I'm pretty much done with the game, I have the best equipments, max level in everything, golden dragon forged, various waifuying, cheesed what's his name and co in bittersweet countless times....
It was kind of like Diablo, t'was mostly my curiosity that keept me going on again and again. The trill of new ennemies, items and equipments. Especially in Bittersweet Isle, where I really enjoyed the random factor of it, even though redoing the same room was kind of repetitive.

Hmm, Classes...

The first class I choosed was Strider. Why ? Because it was the balanced class, that had long-ranged and melee-attack and it has awesome gameplay. Most of the time I used the bow, but I wasn't afraid of going to the melee with daggers, especially with the awesome skills, dashing like a ninja with Biting Wind to distract and slashing the ennemies, or concentrating on one ennemy with Hundred Kisses when my pawns distracted the other ennemies. The Bow skill were great too ! Shooting lines of arrows, three arrows, or just one single powerful shot ! It was pure awesome !

Fighter was pretty much what I expected them to be, which is not a good thing to me, it was too slow, didn't do enough damage, the skills weren't worth it... and in DD, Mobility => Def. like Dark Souls.

As a PC class, it was crap.... however,as a pawn class it was good, a great PV bait, in fact, my main pawn was a Fighter.

Yeah, I really didn't treated my pawns well... in fact by the end of the day, I figured out that I should just dispose of them to get the full solo advantage skills. Plus the whole 'farm the boss from Bittersweet Isle'.

Plus in the end, they only did crap, seriously my full team of Lv200 only used their daggers attacks, not even their skills, their attacks ! Even in the middle of a Maelstrom or a insta-kill attacks ! That's lower than the bottom !

If I remember correctly, my first group was, a Strider (Me), Two fighter (One being my Main pawn) and a Mage, and gosh did this team was better.

The mage class was interesting, but still not my thing though, but it was necessary to have in a group for everything it give to the party, healing, thunder, enchantment. I'm just going cut my personal view of classes in a few words, because this post is becoming way too long.

I honestly think that Warrior is a pure BS class be it for a PC or a pawn, it's slow, only three skill, all are bad.

Sorcerer is awesome, but not really as pawn. Seriously, they only spam the wrong spell ! So I feel like a it's more like a PC class, but I don't like using it so.
Ranger is my mind, he best class of the game, it has everything the Strider had, but even better, and those delicious explosive arrows !

Hybrid class were all interesting, Assassin was my favorite class, love the skills, Assassinate, Sword, the style, everything, though objectively, Ranger is still better imo..
Magic Knight keep the slowness of a Fighter, but bring massive advantage, such as freaking Holy Cannon. Magic Archer is the same, but even better as it have only good things, imo.

I have very good memories of this game, honestly, each thing I strugled with felt rewardful, defeating a bunch of bandits, a single troll, that was hard, but when I did it....

It make the final bosses of the game kinda underwhelming.

Oh yeah, good thing that in the Dark Arised Edition, the warp stone only costed 1000 G, huh ?

Edited January 17, 2016 by B.Leu