Loki Laufeyson Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Good... GOOOOOOOOOD! The thanian prophecy is coming true! Ehh the only time i had a problem with Azura was in Conquest. When she just up and vanished for no fucking good reason. Like, Birthright, she at least has the decency to have a reason to fading into nothingness (and its a bit sad). But Conquest? She just goes bye bye for no reason. Its so dumb. Azura, why you doin that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Where the living fuck did i mention fanfiction? Im discussing the fact the character sucks because of bad writing. Im not going to hold it against the character because he makes moral choices that i dont agree with. Not when its a result of inconsistency across the board because the writing resulted into chicken-shit route. If i disliked characters because i didnt agree with their moral choices, and held it against them, well...my favorite characters would be a bunch of white bread do-gooders, and what fun is that? I just cant hold it against the character. If you want to, fine, but dont ask me to. I saw him as a sad, broken man who couldnt realize he was making the worst mistakes of his life during Birthright. In Conquest, i saw him as really stubborn who finally came around a bit too late in Conquest. You seem confused. Xander isn't being criticized because he makes moral choices we don't agree with, it's because he does that and the game still portrays him as an honorable guy we should see in a good light. One moment he's causing the deaths and suffering of many innocents, and another moment he's holding speeches about peace. You can blame it on the bad writing, i agree with you. But that doesn't mean you can write off the complaints we have about the Xander that the game gave us. Edited March 2, 2016 by BruceLee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Ehh the only time i had a problem with Azura was in Conquest. When she just up and vanished for no fucking good reason. Like, Birthright, she at least has the decency to have a reason to fading into nothingness (and its a bit sad). But Conquest? She just goes bye bye for no reason. Its so dumb. Azura, why you doin that? [spoiler=Conquest Endgame spoilers]I'm pretty sure she says singing her song in the battle against Takumi will kill her in exchange for weakening him. Still dumb, but here ya go I still don't think Fates narrative is bad, just unrefined. That writer they hired said he wrote a first draft for Fates, and this game REALLY feels like an unaltered First draft narrative wise. Edited March 2, 2016 by MCProductions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skornvorax Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Honestly, I liked most of the cast of this game... sure they are rather basic and such but... I like them,but mostly the Nohr part, I found them much more interesting, I mean sure Niles and some others can be abit annoying at first but they get some interesting Supports so its fine by me....that being said... Alot of Hoshido characters were just... bothersome, like Subaki,that Samurai guy,that goddamn bastard Takumi,Lobster Ryoma(aka the Multiplayer destroyer),the Ninja Trio (went for Kagero as my first waifu.... meh),and most of the children... I mean im fine with some of them like Cordelia and...uuuhh.... Shiro and Hisame were all right but the rest... eh or bleh Also Mozu felt like a more boring version of Donnel, I miss Donny the nuke weapon.... Also Garon and his 'friends'... Its just so dissapointing to see the generic muahaha villians.. cant we at least have a more interesting Villian... like Mustafa or Cervantes... or even Walhart Edited March 2, 2016 by Skornvorax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 [spoiler=Conquest Endgame spoilers]I'm pretty sure she says singing her song in the battle against Takumi will kill her in exchange for weakening him. Still dumb, but here ya go I still don't think Fates narrative is bad, just unrefined. That writer they hired said he wrote a first draft for Fates, and this game REALLY feels like an unaltered First draft narrative wise. [spoiler=More Conquest spoilas] Yeah but when it comes time for her to leave, she doesnt even say thats whats going on. Like, you get the impression Azura didnt die from that after all is said and done. You arent even sure shes dead at all. I mean, is she? Ugh. I feel like these plots can work just fine, if they werent so scared to make our MU question and look bad. Conquest could be a good "bad guy" route, where our MU feels vengeful toward Hoshido. Also Iago's railroading is really tacked on. Its just so...chicken-shit writing. Revelation could be hella good if it werent for a certain Fight Club Curse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ymir Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Arthur, only because his hit rate is terrible, which I'm sure can be fixed. Aside from that I like everyone so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 You seem confused. Xander isn't being criticized because he makes moral choices we don't agree with, it's because he does that and the game still portrays him as an honorable guy we should see in a good light. One moment he's causing the deaths and suffering of many innocents, and another moment he's holding speeches about peace. You can blame it on the bad writing, i agree with you. But that doesn't mean you can write off the complaints we have about the Xander that the game gave us. When was Xander randomly killing innocents again? I'm pretty sure the only innocents I saw get killed were random villagers via Iago and Hans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Garon, I mean holy shit can you even be more blatantly evil? This guy is one of the flattest villains I've ever seen. I thought Thane was exaggerating how bad Conquest was but no. The best part is I'm not even to the really bad part apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Garon, I mean holy shit can you even be more blatantly evil? This guy is one of the flattest villains I've ever seen. We just needed a scene where Garon announced the new Nohrian sport is professional puppy punting and we'd be set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Entre birthright exclusive cast sans oni lady. Sorry I just am not fond of the racist lobster brigade. Edited March 2, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Entre birthright exclusive cast sans oni lady. Sorry I just am not fond of the racist lobster brigade. I actually agree with this, just substitute Oboro for Oni lady. Seriously, WHY do I care more for the Hoshidan siblings when I don't choose them than when I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 When was Xander randomly killing innocents again? I'm pretty sure the only innocents I saw get killed were random villagers via Iago and Hans. So Hoshidan soldiers who are simply defending their country from being invaded don't classify as innocent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Seriously, WHY do I care more for the Hoshidan siblings when I don't choose them than when I do Same, but flipped. I do like Elise and Leo though all the time, but I care more for Elise when I didn't choose them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) So Hoshidan soldiers who are simply defending their country from being invaded don't classify as innocent? Its a war. Also he kiiinda gets executed if he doesn't fight them and uuuh, someone like hans takes over the army. Pragmatic chivalry is weird, though I cant say I dislike it at all. (Wait you care about takumi when you play conquest...HOW? Ngl I do spare clericwithanoverusedname as much as possible because its like punching a retarded puppy, ch22 is her fault though, that's my dust bish) Real talk though (spoilers): takasshat is flat out more evil than the main villlan of the game in conquest. Iago/gandorf only want to kick puppies takasshat actually does it, then runs away crying like a bitch, over and over and over. I LOVE killing that exemplar of what a truly garbage human being is. Edited March 3, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) So Hoshidan soldiers who are simply defending their country from being invaded don't classify as innocent? Soldiers who are fighting back to kill you and have no issues about doing so. And probably will since Conquest is pretty tough at times. See, if Xander was massacring civilians I would have an issue with it, but hes fighting soldiers. Soldiers that are trying to kill him and all of his allies in the defense of their homeland. They aren't at fault, but neither is Xander because it is simply how war is. Edit: Guy above beat me to it. Edited March 3, 2016 by Abysswalker25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I attack you and try to kill you, you fight back in self defense. You are now no longer an innocent and killing you is ok. Please, think about what you say before you post. Its a war. And Nohr is the aggressor. Just like in my example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Soldiers know what they're doing. They sign up for this in most cases. They're consenting to the possibility of battles and even dying in those battles. Unless Hoshido forced civilians to fight, these soldiers are not innocent in the way you insist they are. Its not their fault, sure. But they did know what they were getting into. If they fall, they fall. I don't see how killing enemy soldiers during war constitutes as slaughtering innocents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Yeah I might agree with that logic if GLORIOUS NIPPON STEEL didn't have a flat out genocide boner the size of upper state Manhattan. Edited March 3, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah I might agree with that logic if GLORIOUS NIPPON STEEL didnt have a flat out genocide boner the size of upper state Manhattan. Like pre omgmomdied they might have been something resembling peaceful but the hoshidans border on flat out jihadism at times. Seriously when do they mention GENOCIDE in Hoshido? Is it just because they call him "Nohrian scum?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) More like the general mentality is "the only good nhorian is a dead nhorian" Edit: Seriously Corin is fluffy bunnies and happyness but something tells me that generations of hate would not make for uuuh, gentle conquerors if he/she wasn't holding the reins. Edited March 3, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Soldiers know what they're doing. They sign up for this in most cases. They're consenting to the possibility of battles and even dying in those battles. Unless Hoshido forced civilians to fight, these soldiers are not innocent in the way you insist they are. Its not their fault, sure. But they did know what they were getting into. If they fall, they fall. I don't see how killing enemy soldiers during war constitutes as slaughtering innocents. If a country is being invaded adult civilians capable of fighting will be ordered to fight. What do you mean they know what they're getting into? They aren't getting themselves into anything, Nohr is bringing the war to their home, it's self defense. Like how are you even justifying this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) If a country is being invaded adult civilians capable of fighting will be ordered to fight. What do you mean they know what they're getting into? They aren't getting themselves into anything, Nohr is bringing the war to their home, it's self defense. Like how are you even justifying this? A country attacking would also call upon its adult civilians capable of fighting. People who probably don't want to fight but have to out of fear/loyalty/duty whatever reason they might have. You wouldn't consider them innocent though, since they were the aggressors according to your logic. Edited March 3, 2016 by Abysswalker25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The war didn't just suddenly happen. There was lots of tension and build up for at least 16 years(assuming Corrin is 19 or 20 and was abducted at ~4ish). Anybody enlisted during that time probably had an inkling about what would happen. Maybe I worded it poorly or something, but people who go through the training to be soldiers are well aware of the risks. And, like I said, civilians who are forced to fight are a completely different story. Also, I'm not justifying the war. I actually don't give a fuck. In a real-world situation I'd care, but for this I don't have any stance. Thanks, SE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 If a country is being invaded adult civilians capable of fighting will be ordered to fight. What do you mean they know what they're getting into? They aren't getting themselves into anything, Nohr is bringing the war to their home, it's self defense. Like how are you even justifying this? Okay in defense of Xander here, like he had a choice here. Multiple times in Conquest, which you have stated that you will not play so it is giving only one side of the story, Xander talks about how there have been many times that he thinks his father goes to far, and that he knows what his father is doing is wrong. He can't stop it though because his father is essentially a dictator. He will be executed if he even speaks against him, let alone act against him. I suggest reading the Xander and Corrin support, it gives you some insight on what Xander's situation is. If you want to look at the person to blame for the war, you need to look at Garon and his two power ranger villain friends, because they started it, the Nohrian royal siblings are only forced into it, not by choice. You have a bit of a double standard here, because in reality, Nohrian soldiers are innocent as well. They have a dictator called a king practically holding them at the tip of a sword and telling them to attack, but I guess its okay because they are just Nohrians, who cares about those guys? By the way, that would include Xander, Leo, Elise, Camila, Niles, Odin, Selena, Beruka, Pieri, Laslow, and all other nohrian characters because if they speak out against Garon, they die. So before you go talking about how horrible Xander is for invading a country, actually care to look at his situation before speaking, because he doesn't want to be there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Serene's Law: All threads will eventually descend into discussions of Conquest's plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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