I can already feel that this game will get the same amount of hate as Awakening did...

[NekoKnight]

Stay predictable serenes. Ignore reality as much as you want.

You've been given numerous counterarguments and ignored them all because they don't suit your conclusion. The irony is palpable.

All you can do is plug your ears, close your eyes and keep screaming that it must be everyone else who is wrong.

[ckc22]

You've been given numerous counterarguments and ignored them all because they don't suit your conclusion. The irony is palpable.

All you can do is plug your ears, close your eyes and keep screaming that it must be everyone else who is wrong.

Your counterarguments are illogical "it's cheating cause I say so even though it doesn't involve breaking the code in anyway."

There are only a few things that matter:

1) Is fates breakable? Yes.

2) Can you do it faster and easier than you can break awakening? Yes.

Your "arguments" are a thousand excuses that ignore the basic fact that my castle can be used to easily break the game as early as right after chapter 6.

You can admit that these things are true and say that you like the game better when you choose not to use them. What you can't do is pretend like you can't choose not to break awakening in the exact same way.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ckc22

[Etrurian emperor]

I never quite joined the Awakening hate train myself and don't plan to hop on any future Fates hate train either.

However i find it perfectly understandably that the people who had a problem with Awakening would be disappointing in fates. Some of the criticism of Awakening like the dual system have been addressed to at extend but in other areas Fates actually doubled down on aspects that a lot of people fond problematic about Awakening. The Skinshipping(even if dumbed down a lot) and the completely out of place children mechanic did little to relieve the concerns of people who were worried that Fire emblem was moving to close into dating sim territory.

That the story and worldbuilding remain a weakness despite both of them already being considered some of the weakest aspects of Awakening isn't helping Fates case either.

[Captain Karnage]

I absolutely love Fates.

I hate the writing, but adore the gameplay (haven't played Birthright or Revelations yet though).

I am just deciding to ignore the stupidity of Corrin and the blatant plot-holes, and I am able to enjoy myself greatly!

same here

also

I think calling it Fire Emblem if makes more sense, because how much the game pushes you to pick Hoshido.

you have to ask yourself "what if I chose the other side"

[NekoKnight]

Your counterarguments are illogical "it's cheating cause I say so even though it doesn't involve breaking the code in anyway."

There are only a few things that matter:

1) Is fates breakable by using systems that are intended to circumvent the game's difficulty? Yes.

I'll agree with your conclusion when you write out your premise like this.

Getting overpowered characters via MyCastle is NOT a core function of the game. You need to download those characters in order to break the game. Conquest is made harder and more like classical Fire Emblem by removing gold and exp grinding, but if I choose I can use the DLC to circumvent those limitations. If I used a console command to give myself an overpowered character, you'd call that cheating but if I download that character from another player it's not cheating? Who's making the arbitrary distinction of legitimate play now?

You're making a pointless argument because no one really disagrees that it is indeed possible to break the game's difficulty with a certain feature. What we disagree with is whether that feature is and ever was considered the normal way to approach the game's difficulty. Letting (key word) the gameplay remain challenging in Conquest is as simple as saying "I will not download additional content that will make the make easier". Awakening was a lot more complicated, necessitating that you don't overuse CORE mechanics.

[Integrity]

ckc and guys talking to ckc, stop fighting about dumb shit.

if you want to talk about it, be adults.

EDIT: this goes double today, i've got a bunch of work to do so just behave and don't sass me.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Integrity

[ckc22]

I'll agree with your conclusion when you write out your premise like this.

Getting overpowered characters via MyCastle is NOT a core function of the game. You need to download those characters in order to break the game. Conquest is made harder and more like classical Fire Emblem by removing gold and exp grinding, but if I choose I can use the DLC to circumvent those limitations. If I used a console command to give myself an overpowered character, you'd call that cheating but if I download that character from another player it's not cheating? Who's making the arbitrary distinction of legitimate play now?

You're making a pointless argument because no one really disagrees that it is indeed possible to break the game's difficulty with a certain feature. What we disagree with is whether that feature is and ever was considered the normal way to approach the game's difficulty. Letting (key word) the gameplay remain challenging in Conquest is as simple as saying "I will not download additional content that will make the make easier". Awakening was a lot more complicated, necessitating that you don't overuse CORE mechanics.

Mycastle is a core function of the game, it is included in everyones copy with no payment required. It's not DLC. I agree. To get extra gold/exp you have to use dlc, which my castle is not.

It's not cheating because you aren't breaking any system in the game, your not hacking or messing with code or anything.

Extreme low manning isn't considered the "normal way" to play Awakening, yet that is what people are doing to break awakening. It's no different than whats going on here, people just have a boner for conquest and a huge bias against awakening. That much is obvious.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

The more intelligent systems tries to pander and make the game suit everybody's play style, the more FE will start crumbling quickly all over again.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Great Geargia Gateway

[ckc22]

The more intelligent systems tries to pander and make the game suit everybody's play style, the more FE will start crumbling quickly all over again.

Crumbling? The Awakening was the downfall of the series... line again. Lol.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Mycastle is a core function of the game, it is included in everyones copy with no payment required. It's not DLC. I agree. To get extra gold/exp you have to use dlc, which my castle is not.

It's not cheating because you aren't breaking any system in the game, your not hacking or messing with code or anything.

Extreme low manning isn't considered the "normal way" to play Awakening, yet that is what people are doing to break awakening. It's no different than whats going on here, people just have a boner for conquest and a huge bias against awakening. That much is obvious.

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question of how My Castle is any more broken than Streetpass or Bonus Teams.

The more intelligent systems tries to pander and make the game suit everybody's play style, the more FE will start crumbling quickly all over again.

FE isn't crumbling, the fact that Fates had the best US launch in the entire series is proof of that. It's just becoming something different and whether that change is good or not is entirely subjective.

[NekoKnight]

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question of how My Castle is any more broken than Streetpass or Bonus Teams.

FE isn't crumbling, the fact that Fates had the best US launch in the entire series is proof of that. It's just becoming something different and whether that change is good or not is entirely subjective.

I think we should stop talking to ckc22. He's dedicated to his mindset and isn't interested in hearing what we have to say. Plus the topic is bothering the mods.

Also, I agree with your second point. If FE was "crumbling", we wouldn't have gotten so many gameplay improvements and innovations in Fates. The other controversial elements of the series direction are worth discussing but let's give credit where it's due.

[Thane]

To change the topic, can I just mention how boring the later maps of Revelations are? I mean I'm actually contemplating not opening chests just so I can finish them faster. Waiting for slow-moving platforms among other things is not fun.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Thane

[Hunter Nightblood]

To change the topic, can I just mention how boring the later maps of Fates are? I mean I'm actually contemplating not opening chests just so I can finish them faster. Waiting for slow-moving platforms among other things is not fun.

Which path? I've beaten Birthright and I don't remember moving platforms.

[Thane]

Which path? I've beaten Birthright and I don't remember moving platforms.

Pardon me, I meant Revelations. The maps are slow, overly gimmicky and the pacing of the story is completely bizarre, so there's not much to look forward to there.

[Zerosabers]

To change the topic, can I just mention how boring the later maps of Fates are? I mean I'm actually contemplating not opening chests just so I can finish them faster. Waiting for slow-moving platforms among other things is not fun.

Later maps in Fates is why we need warp back. Preferable FE11 warp so I don't have to play the game.

I've only finished Birthright and that Hans map is just dumb. Most of the other are alright.

Edit: Woops you're talking about Revelation.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Zerosabers

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think we should stop talking to ckc22. He's dedicated to his mindset and isn't interested in hearing what we have to say. Plus the topic is bothering the mods.

Also, I agree with your second point. If FE was "crumbling", we wouldn't have gotten so many gameplay improvements and innovations in Fates. The other controversial elements of the series direction are worth discussing but let's give credit where it's due.

Mhmm. I don't think the waifu/husbando aspect will ever be fully dropped, but the gameplay has evolved quite nicely. All I need is a better plot and either cutting the kids or providing a decent reason for their appearance and I'll be happy.

To change the topic, can I just mention how boring the later maps of Fates are? I mean I'm actually contemplating not opening chests just so I can finish them faster. Waiting for slow-moving platforms among other things is not fun.

That's a Revelation map right? I get the feeling that IS noticed the complaints about Awakening having boring map design/mission objectives and started coming up with the wackiest shit they could think of. Hopefully they'll tone it down a notch for FE15.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Phillius

[Thane]

That's a Revelation map right? I get the feeling that IS noticed the complaints about Awakening having boring map design/mission objectives and started coming up with the wackiest shit they could think of. Hopefully they'll tone it down a notch for FE15.

They definitely did, but if I were to choose between Awakening's maps and these last ones in Revelations, I'd pick Awakening's without a second thought. Arbitrary waiting and horribly paced story that fails on every level towards the end is just...ugh. Sorry, I didn't mean to whine that much, but I'm replaying it now and I had forgotten just how boring it was, both gameplay and story-wise. Hopefully I'll be in the minority here, but I think a lot of people will feel the same at least when they replay it.

[Dark Holy Elf]

It's a bit disappointing to hear that about Revelations; I'm playing Conquest and have found its map design to be the best in the series, so it's a shame if it doesn't carry over. I don't really care about bad plot (please, it's Fire Emblem; except for parts of FE8-10 I think all of them have bad plots) but slow maps sound potentially irksome.

[Thane]

It's a bit disappointing to hear that about Revelations; I'm playing Conquest and have found its map design to be the best in the series, so it's a shame if it doesn't carry over. I don't really care about bad plot (please, it's Fire Emblem; except for parts of FE8-10 I think all of them have bad plots) but slow maps sound potentially irksome.

I agree, I love Conquest's map design for the most part (chapter 19 being the biggest exception), but this is just frustrating. It's usually pretty easy at least, but if you do lose someone you're going to have to re-do the entire map which takes forever; I just lost Kagerou due to the map waiting for you to reach a certain point before they drop extra reinforcements, and I had been playing that map for about half an hour, and at least five minutes remained. Welp, I guess I'll have to try again tomorrow.

I also dislike Fire Emblem's story writing in general (character interactions are usually better), but that doesn't mean I'll look the other way when it's bad, especially not for a game which the developers bragged had a great one.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Thane

[ckc22]

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question of how My Castle is any more broken than Streetpass or Bonus Teams.

Because you can get to it faster and it costs absolutely 0 resources and takes 0 effort to do?

I think we should stop talking to ckc22. He's dedicated to his mindset and isn't interested in hearing what we have to say. Plus the topic is bothering the mods.

You're just as dedicated to your mindset... Which is that my point is correct but...... (1000 excuses why it's different here).

If you agree that Fates is breakable, which I haven't seen anyone deny, then we don't even have an argument.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ckc22

[Jave]

I do not consider anything that requires an Internet connection to be a core function of the game, since it's not something every owner of the game has access to.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Because you can get to it faster and it costs absolutely 0 resources and takes 0 effort to do?

You can't use My Castle until after Chapter 6. Awakening's wireless content is unlocked after Chapter 3, so you don't get to it faster. While you don't lose weapons through My Castle, it's also much harder to farm gold without DLC in Fates as Skirmishes are more expensive on Birthright, costing 1200-2500 depending on the map, so you can't play on Normal difficulty and spend 500 gold on Skirmishes to get 2-3k worth of bullions. Not to mention that on Conquest, you can't get skirmishes at all and don't gain experience from My Castle battles and that using Bonus Teams in Awakening doesn't require an internet connection.

You're just as dedicated to your mindset... Which is that my point is correct but...... (1000 excuses why it's different here).

If you agree that Fates is breakable, which I haven't seen anyone deny, then we don't even have an argument.

We aren't arguing that Fates isn't breakable, we're arguing that it isn't as easily breakable as Awakening.

[ckc22]

I do not consider anything that requires an Internet connection to be a core function of the game, since it's not something every owner of the game has access to.

By that logic the choice/path split isn't even a core function of the game.

You can't use My Castle until after Chapter 6. Awakening's wireless content is unlocked after Chapter 3, so you don't get to it faster. While you don't lose weapons through My Castle, it's also much harder to farm gold without DLC in Fates as Skirmishes are more expensive on Birthright, costing 1200-2500 depending on the map, so you can't play on Normal difficulty and spend 500 gold on Skirmishes to get 2-3k worth of bullions. Not to mention that on Conquest, you can't get skirmishes at all and don't gain experience from My Castle battles and that using Bonus Teams in Awakening doesn't require an internet connection.

We aren't arguing that Fates isn't breakable, we're arguing that it isn't as easily breakable as Awakening.

Fates being breakable has 0 to do with gold or skill buying... for the like eighth time. Mycastle opens 1 chapter after branch of fate. And bonus teams do require the internet - they're all spotpass and require downloading.

[Jave]

By that logic the choice/path split isn't even a core function of the game.

It is if you bought the SE.

It definitely isn't if you bought a single-path version.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jave

[Time the Crestfallen]

Fates being breakable has 0 to do with gold or skill buying... for the like eighth time. Mycastle opens 1 chapter after branch of fate. And bonus teams do require the internet - they're all spotpass and require downloading.

Then what does it have to do with? Because one of your points was that My Castle, in your own words

Because you can get to it faster and it costs absolutely 0 resources and takes 0 effort to do?

Bonus Teams and Awakening Streepass require just as much resources and effort while giving better rewards. So what if My Castle is unlocked one chapter after Branch of Fate? That's still three chapters latter than Awakening's wireless features get unlocked. Have you even explained how My Castle requires zero effort and resources? Because the quote above demonstrates that your argument in that regard so far boils down to 'it just does'.

I'd also like to point out that I can turn my DS' wifi off and access Awakening's Wireless content minus Streetpass while visiting the castles of other players requires that Wifi be turned on.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Phillius