I can already feel that this game will get the same amount of hate as Awakening did...

[Time the Crestfallen]

Wasn't it 500 pages PER ROUTE? They had to have cut a lot of content; I've mentioned it before but I'm sure the duchies, cities etc. were all more fleshed out originally and that only their "skeletons" made it into the game when it was too late to remove them from the final product. I've got zero proof of this, but it could also serve as an explanation as to why that pink-haired singer still has her unique character portrait.

Inquisition is essentially "oh, you're the chosen one to defeat the evil plaguing our lands!" and that's the entire game. The rest is a singleplayer MMO with hollow choices, often boring characters, etc. However, it made some small improvements story-wise, but it's almost offensive how the literal one-minute epilogue is more exciting than anything found within the main story.

Per route?! That's the first I've heard of that but if it's true, then Kibayashi went all in. I'd kill for a work ethic like that. Although if it's true, then it's also possible that IS made such huge cuts because of 3DS memory limitations rather than to save development time. This also raises the issue of whether or not future games should be made for 3DS or Wii/NX. The games would probably be better if they were made for the latter, but I also greatly enjoy the convenience of being able to play FE on a hand-held.

Being the chosen one is still better than being a glorified janitor tho...

EDIT: I looked it up and no, it was 500 between all three routes. Regardless, I'm almost 100% sure they would've cut quite a bit out for whatever reason.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Phillius

[The DanMan]

This strikes me as a great exaggeration. Fates has its strengths and weaknesses on writing just like every other FE (and rest assured, I can list colossal weaknesses of any other FE you can name... while I don't necessarily agree that "all FEs have bad plots", they do tend to all have major problems), and while I tend to agree it's weaker than most (I still like it better than 6 or 7, but I can see why one might differ), I really have a hard time parsing someone legitimately claiming it has a worse plot than Shadow Dragon, which managed to have a cast of characters which felt like cardboard cutouts. I can usually roll my eyes at bad plot points in FE - I'm used to them by now, thanks - but in SD I totally didn't even care when random generic PC #14 bit the dust because it so horribly failed to characterise almost anyone beyond a weak trope.

I slaughtered most of my army to see all the side chapters, there aren't many other FEs I'd even consider doing that in even if they had the same requirements...

Pretty much as General Banzai said; Shadow Dragon is all-round minimalistic, and really focuses on only a single character (Marth). By keeping it's ambitions low, it hit the points it wanted to.

The biggest complaint I can see about SD is what it didn't do, while with most other FE stories it's what they do do.

Per route?! That's the first I've heard of that but if it's true, then Kibayashi went all in. I'd kill for a work ethic like that. Although if it's true, then it's also possible that IS made such huge cuts because of 3DS memory limitations rather than to save development time. This also raises the issue of whether or not future games should be made for 3DS or Wii/NX. The games would probably be better if they were made for the latter, but I also greatly enjoy the convenience of being able to play FE on a hand-held.

Being the chosen one is still better than being a glorified janitor tho...

EDIT: I looked it up and no, it was 500 between all three routes. Regardless, I'm almost 100% sure they would've cut quite a bit out for whatever reason.

The next FE will release on Nintendo's newest handheld, whatever that may be. Calling it now.

Edited March 1, 2016 by The DanMan

[NekoKnight]

Of the games listed above, only Other M is as offensively bad as Fates is. There are plenty of games where the writers just didn't try, or there are games that are mostly on point but fail in a few critical areas. But few games are like Fates and Other M that are both heavily invested in their story and self-defeating in their execution. Other M; a game that baits you with telling the back story of one of the largest feminist icons in video games, that makes Samus a whiny, monotone, co-dependent womb-on-legs in love with an abusive male figure. Fates; a game about family where you are encouraged to fuck your siblings, lied about the premise of BOTH of its stories, and forces every character to be retarded in order to hide the real canon story behind a 3rd DLC only route.

It would only be player worship if the main character (I.E Corrin) wasn't their own established character that reacted to the situations on their own merits, I honestly don't see much difference in characters praising Corrin (Or chiding him/her for their naivety etc) any different than any other lord in the series getting praised or decried by other characters in the game. (I.E Ephraim who never fights battles he can't win etc.)

So your constant complaints about player worship don't hold much water when while we get to customize Corrin, we aren't actually controlling the majority of what he/she says or does apart from a select few times, and I honestly going through both stories didn't see much of this so called worship you speak of, they get called out several times and while they do have the most focus, they are the main character, they should get the most focus regardless of what people think about them as either an avatar or them as "Corrin"

While the Avatar/MU (note, both terms imply this is YOU) isn't a perfect self-insert because they have something of a defined personality and make choices independent of the player, they do want you to feel this is your character. You can choose the name (many people will either choose their own name or a nickname they associate with) and their spouse (something that people get super invested in, not because they care about Kamui as a character but because they care about the spouse).

There are plenty of reasons why Fates has embarrassing amounts of player worship. Several characters personalities revolve around worshiping you (Camilla), some to the point that they do ridiculous things like betraying their country for you (Kaze). No matter how much shit your character does (Conquest) the game paints you as a tragic hero who is eventually forgiven by even the people who should hate you the most. Even if you don't personally project yourself onto Kamui, the game is definitely heavy on worshiping that character.

Per route?! That's the first I've heard of that but if it's true, then Kibayashi went all in. I'd kill for a work ethic like that. Although if it's true, then it's also possible that IS made such huge cuts because of 3DS memory limitations rather than to save development time. This also raises the issue of whether or not future games should be made for 3DS or Wii/NX. The games would probably be better if they were made for the latter, but I also greatly enjoy the convenience of being able to play FE on a hand-held.

Being the chosen one is still better than being a glorified janitor tho...

I think you are giving them too much credit, thinking hardware limitations are relevant to what they tried to accomplish. Much of both routes is filler-like and you don't need THAT much dialogue for better world building and proper story elements. Other games pulled it off and they didn't have 3 games worth of content to do it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Thane]

Per route?! That's the first I've heard of that but if it's true, then Kibayashi went all in. I'd kill for a work ethic like that. Although if it's true, then it's also possible that IS made such huge cuts because of 3DS memory limitations rather than to save development time. This also raises the issue of whether or not future games should be made for 3DS or Wii/NX. The games would probably be better if they were made for the latter, but I also greatly enjoy the convenience of being able to play FE on a hand-held.

Being the chosen one is still better than being a glorified janitor tho...

"So I thought, "Well, I could do that." Then I started writing the story about the Hoshido family. I ended up using 10 pages on just the beginning. I ended up writing about 500 pages."

/.../ "That's right. So I ended up writing a huge amount and I thought, "Well, this has become quite the task." So I gave them the pages for the first storyline for the Hoshido family and I had to write the same amount for the other two stories. I said, "There's no way I can do that." But then once I got started...I did it."

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/fire-emblem-fates/0/2

Here's the thing though, we have no idea what he wrote, as far as I know. Given that he was under pressure and wrote 1500 pages, I honestly think it sounds like he went for quantity over quality.

I doubt they cut a lot of things because of hardware limitations but simply because it'd be too extensive and convoluted, and that they wouldn't have enough time to implement everything. That being said, given the final state of the product, they might've chosen to exclude the wrong things, but like I said, it's impossible for us to know.

[MCProductions]

I personally think IS went with those 1500 pages without changing anything due to their obvious fanboyism, but due to said pages basically being a first draft, the story never got the refinement it needed, and we have the mess we have now.

That said, tho I can only truly consider Conquest among this opinion at present, I still consider Fates to have a better narrative than 1/2 of the series.

[ckc22]

The one thing that Fates does do well is focusing on one long arc instead of a bunch of mini arcs. It's too bad that because of that it feels like they didn't realize you still need plot progression during it.

I agree with a lot of the complaints - the characterization is off, theres no sense of agency among the party.

[Jave]

And I hate the argument that because the previous games supposedly had awful stories, we're not really allowed to criticize this story.

Eh, I'm pretty sure nobody here is saying this. There's quite a difference between disagreeing with someone and telling someone to shut up.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Jave

[Time the Crestfallen]

"So I thought, "Well, I could do that." Then I started writing the story about the Hoshido family. I ended up using 10 pages on just the beginning. I ended up writing about 500 pages."

/.../ "That's right. So I ended up writing a huge amount and I thought, "Well, this has become quite the task." So I gave them the pages for the first storyline for the Hoshido family and I had to write the same amount for the other two stories. I said, "There's no way I can do that." But then once I got started...I did it."

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/fire-emblem-fates/0/2

Here's the thing though, we have no idea what he wrote, as far as I know. Given that he was under pressure and wrote 1500 pages, I honestly think it sounds like he went for quantity over quality.

I doubt they cut a lot of things because of hardware limitations but simply because it'd be too extensive and convoluted, and that they wouldn't have enough time to implement everything. That being said, given the final state of the product, they might've chosen to exclude the wrong things, but like I said, it's impossible for us to know.

He actually wrote 500 pages per route? Huh, everything I've found said it was only 500 between the three. Well you can't fault Kibayashi for for laziness...

But this only reaffirms my belief; even if most of it is filler, there is absolutely no way that Fates has 500 pages worth of draft in each individual route. Hell, 500 across all three is a stretch.

Of the games listed above, only Other M is as offensively bad as Fates is. There are plenty of games where the writers just didn't try, or there are games that are mostly on point but fail in a few critical areas. But few games are like Fates and Other M that are both heavily invested in their story and self-defeating in their execution. Other M; a game that baits you with telling the back story of one of the largest feminist icons in video games, that makes Samus a whiny, monotone, co-dependent womb-on-legs in love with an abusive male figure. Fates; a game about family where you are encouraged to fuck your siblings, lied about the premise of BOTH of its stories, and forces every character to be retarded in order to hide the real canon story behind a 3rd DLC only route.

Here's the thing though; there's nothing about Fates that I find offensive per-say, it's just badly written. Being able to S-Rank siblings was husbando/waifu pandering and the obsessions of several characters with Corrin is just player worshipping, both of which are incredibly eye-rolling but I'm not going to grab my pitchfork and torch over it. Not to mention that the 'whole revolutionise the Kingdom from within' of Nohr is technically correct, even if it's executed in the most idiotic way possible. Bad-writing (consider the list I posted), player worshipping (where 'only you, the player's self-insert/audience surrogate character can save the day is the bread-and-butter of the RPG Genre) and fanservice (Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball anyone?) isn't offensive to me. Turning the biggest and greatest feminist icon in the Video Game industry into a weak-willed individual, both having feelings for and completely subservient to an abusive father figure in a game with a motherhood motif so blatantly obvious a lobotomy patient could pick up on the subtext however, is so offensive that everyone involved should be tied up and left at the mercy of every radical SJW on tumblr.

I think you are giving them too much credit, thinking hardware limitations are relevant to what they tried to accomplish. Much of both routes is filler-like and you don't need THAT much dialogue for better world building and proper story elements. Other games pulled it off and they didn't have 3 games worth of content to do it.

I'll admit that considering hardware limitations was jumping the gun a bit, but until someone can explain how it's possible, I refuse to believe that Fates uses 1500 pages worth of script in-game.

The one thing that Fates does do well is focusing on one long arc instead of a bunch of mini arcs. It's too bad that because of that it feels like they didn't realize you still need plot progression during it.

I agree with a lot of the complaints - the characterization is off, theres no sense of agency among the party.

That's actually my only major complaint about Awakening's story; the Valm arc had enough good characters (especially Walhart, who I consider to be one of the most interesting villains in the entire franchise), story ideas and potential to carry an entire game by itself, and yet it winds up relegated to an unimportant 2nd act almost completely disconnected from the rest of the game.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Phillius

[NeonZ]

There are plenty of reasons why Fates has embarrassing amounts of player worship. Several characters personalities revolve around worshiping you (Camilla), some to the point that they do ridiculous things like betraying their country for you (Kaze). No matter how much shit your character does (Conquest) the game paints you as a tragic hero who is eventually forgiven by even the people who should hate you the most. Even if you don't personally project yourself onto Kamui, the game is definitely heavy on worshiping that character.

If the game were really focused on player worship, especially on Conquest, would Corrin/Kamui really be portrayed so powerlessly? Most of the "bad" actions brought about in the Conquest route come about from Corrin's inability to stop things, like the executions in Cheve. Standing around watching something that the character clearly dislikes is no power fantasy, and that's basically what happens during half of Conquest's chapters. If they were really just going for empowering the player, they easily could have portrayed a Corrin, who, for example, was so competent that he managed to execute Hans/Ganz and got him ousted as a traitor during the Cheve incident, getting away from there without letting any innocents die. But they didn't. And, in fact, his failures and limited abilities are constantly brought up.

Of course, contrasting with that, we also have Corrin magically going through these battles where he and his men somehow don't kill anyone (which leads to some actual player worship like Kaze admiring that so much he joins him). They wanted to make Corrin's methods clearly different from Nohr's traditional ones, but chose a really stupid way to do that.

Edited March 1, 2016 by NeonZ

[Thane]

Here's the thing though; there's nothing about Fates that I find offensive per-say, it's just badly written. Being able to S-Rank siblings was husbando/waifu pandering and the obsessions of several characters with Corrin is just player worshipping, both of which are incredibly eye-rolling but I'm not going to grab my pitchfork and torch over it. Not to mention that the 'whole revolutionise the Kingdom from within' of Nohr is technically correct, even if it's executed in the most idiotic way possible. Bad-writing (consider the list I posted), player worshipping (where 'only you, the player's self-insert/audience surrogate character can save the day is the bread-and-butter of the RPG Genre) and fanservice (Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball anyone?) isn't offensive to me. Turning the biggest and greatest feminist icon in the Video Game industry into a weak-willed individual, both having feelings for and completely subservient to an abusive father figure in a game with a motherhood motif so blatantly obvious a lobotomy patient could pick up on the subtext however, is so offensive that everyone involved should be tied up and left at the mercy of every radical SJW on tumblr.

I don't think that's a good example. Dead or Alive never pretends to be about anything other than busty anime girls; that's all there is to it. Fates is supposed to be about family and two nations at war, yet like NekoKnight said, the player is essentially encouraged to bone a "sibling", not to mention things like Camilla's introduction cutscene.

Fan service doesn't have to be bad, and comes in many forms. People are free to do whatever they want and enjoy whatever sexual stuff they want on their own spare time provided they don't hurt anyone. However, the kind of fan service that's ubiquitous in Fates sticks out like a sore thumb, and that's where my complaints come from.

I believe offensive is a word that should be used sparingly, but I did feel like the game assumed I was an idiot for the majority of the playthrough, especially in Conquest and towards the end of Revelation with dat pacing and [spoiler=Revelation endgame]Garon being teleported to Valla out of the blue only to be eaten with just a few lines, never to be mentioned again.

which really sums up his character, really.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Thane

[NekoKnight]

If the game were really focused on player worship, especially on Conquest, would Corrin/Kamui really be portrayed so powerlessly? Most of the "bad" actions brought about in the Conquest route come about from Corrin's inability to stop things, like the executions in Cheve. Standing around watching something that the character clearly dislikes is no power fantasy, and that's basically what happens during half of Conquest's chapters. If they were really just going for empowering the player, they easily could have portrayed a Corrin, who, for example, was so competent that he managed to execute Hans/Ganz and got him ousted as a traitor during the Cheve incident, getting away from there without letting any innocents die. But they didn't. And, in fact, his failures and limited abilities are constantly brought up.

Of course, contrasting with that, we also have Corrin magically going through these battles where he and his men somehow don't kill anyone (which leads to some actual player worship like Kaze admiring that so much he joins him). They wanted to make Corrin's methods clearly different from Nohr's traditional ones, but chose a really stupid way to do that.

Well, you said it all yourself. Kamui isn't a perfect power fantasy but it has many things that qualify. I'll add on that Kamui goes against orders that would supposedly lead to his execution but he's just let off the hook.

Here's the thing though; there's nothing about Fates that I find offensive per-say, it's just badly written. Being able to S-Rank siblings was husbando/waifu pandering and the obsessions of several characters with Corrin is just player worshipping, both of which are incredibly eye-rolling but I'm not going to grab my pitchfork and torch over it. Not to mention that the 'whole revolutionise the Kingdom from within' of Nohr is technically correct, even if it's executed in the most idiotic way possible. Bad-writing (consider the list I posted), player worshipping (where 'only you, the player's self-insert/audience surrogate character can save the day is the bread-and-butter of the RPG Genre) and fanservice (Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball anyone?) isn't offensive to me. Turning the biggest and greatest feminist icon in the Video Game industry into a weak-willed individual, both having feelings for and completely subservient to an abusive father figure in a game with a motherhood motif so blatantly obvious a lobotomy patient could pick up on the subtext however, is so offensive that everyone involved should be tied up and left at the mercy of every radical SJW on tumblr.

"Offensive" probably isn't the right word, unless it means "them trying to tell me Marx and Nohrrin are heroes is an insult to my intelligence". But I do think Fates deserves a special term for the lengths it goes to undermine everything it does.

Edited March 1, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Time the Crestfallen]

I don't think that's a good example. Dead or Alive never pretends to be about anything other than busty anime girls; that's all there is to it. Fates is supposed to be about family and two nations at war, yet like NekoKnight said, the player is essentially encouraged to bone a "sibling", not to mention things like Camilla's introduction cutscene.

Fan service doesn't have to be bad, and comes in many forms. People are free to do whatever they want and enjoy whatever sexual stuff they want on their own spare time provided they don't hurt anyone. However, the kind of fan service that's ubiquitous in Fates sticks out like a sore thumb, and that's where my complaints come from.

I believe offensive is a word that should be used sparingly, but I did feel like the game assumed I was an idiot for the majority of the playthrough, especially in Conquest and towards the end of Revelation with dat pacing and [spoiler=Revelation endgame]Garon being teleported to Valla out of the blue only to be eaten with just a few lines, never to be mentioned again.

which really sums up his character, really.

The volleyball thing is more of an example of how common fanservice is in the industry that you can dedicate an entire game to big-titty anime girls and no-one will consider it particularly odd. I also don't remember being ''encouraged' to sleep with any of the siblings, with the possible exception of Camilla, you're just given the optin of doing so. Having the option to do something doesn't mean it's encouraged.

[Water Mage]

The one thing that Fates does do well is focusing on one long arc instead of a bunch of mini arcs. It's too bad that because of that it feels like they didn't realize you still need plot progression during it.

I disagree with that, I prefer mini-arcs rather than one long arc.

Mini-arcs are great for world-building.

Path of Radiance is a good example of this.

[Time the Crestfallen]

"Offensive" probably isn't the right word, unless it means "them trying to tell me Marx and Nohrrin are heroes is an insult to my intelligence". But I do think Fates deserves a special term for the lengths it goes to undermine everything it does.

That's fair. Fates does have a terrible story, there's no denying that. However, I've also played quite a few games that I personally would consider far worse than Fates, so seeing people get so bent out of shape about it seems odd to me.

It's also worth mentioning that I enjoy SyFy Original B-movies, deliberately seek out bad fanfiction and will take opportunities to play (but not buy) video games that are considered awful for whatever reason because I can extract humour from them, so both my tolerance and definition of what can be considered 'bad' likely exist on a different plane of reality than most others, so feel free to consider me desensitised to such things.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Phillius

[Thane]

The volleyball thing is more of an example of how common fanservice is in the industry that you can dedicate an entire game to big-titty anime girls and no-one will consider it particularly odd. I also don't remember being ''encouraged' to sleep with any of the siblings, with the possible exception of Camilla, you're just given the optin of doing so. Having the option to do something doesn't mean it's encouraged.

There's nothing wrong with dedicating an entire game to skimpily clad people of either gender if that's the purpose of the game. Given the interactive nature of video games, I'm genuinely surprised it's not a bigger thing than it already is. I find nothing wrong with people having a wank to whatever they want if they do it in private without it affecting anyone else, and if a game is just about banging hot anime dudes/dudettes, then so be it. At least the sexualization won't affect a genuine attempt at a story.

Well, isn't it enough to be encouraged to pork one of your siblings? And have an entire cutscene dedicated to her showing her goods when it doesn't belong in the game?

It's also worth mentioning that I enjoy SyFy Original B-movies, deliberately seek out bad fanfiction and will take opportunities to play (but not buy) video games that are considered awful for whatever reason because I can extract humour from them, so both my tolerance and definition of what can be considered 'bad' likely exist on a different plane of reality than most others, so feel free to consider me desensitised to such things.

How? How do you sleep at night after witnessing such unspeakable horrors?

[NekoKnight]

The volleyball thing is more of an example of how common fanservice is in the industry that you can dedicate an entire game to big-titty anime girls and no-one will consider it particularly odd. I also don't remember being ''encouraged' to sleep with any of the siblings, with the possible exception of Camilla, you're just given the optin of doing so. Having the option to do something doesn't mean it's encouraged.

This 'option' was not something the players exclusively decided to focus on. If I recall correctly, the developers even said that Takumi and Leon were specifically designed to be attractive to female players, and Camilla's intended sex appeal is pretty straightforward. Even if there isn't dialogue in game that says "You should totally tap that", the sibling characters are designed to be attractive to YOU. I say "encouraged to" as a hyperbole of "it's not in any way discouraged to shack up with your siblings, and the story warps to accommodate this choice if you make it".

Edited March 1, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Time the Crestfallen]

There's nothing wrong with dedicating an entire game to skimpily clad people of either gender if that's the purpose of the game. Given the interactive nature of video games, I'm genuinely surprised it's not a bigger thing than it already is. I find nothing wrong with people having a wank to whatever they want if they do it in private without it affecting anyone else, and if a game is just about banging hot anime dudes/dudettes, then so be it. At least the sexualization won't affect a genuine attempt at a story.

Well, isn't it enough to be encouraged to pork one of your siblings? And have an entire cutscene dedicated to her showing her goods when it doesn't belong in the game?

Couse not, nothing wrong with it. But I can't really see a movie getting away with the same kind of thing without receiving a much higher rating or being heavily censored. If you want other examples, how about X-Blade, the crossover with SMT, the countless fantasy games with chainmail bikinis and so on.

This 'option' was not something the players exclusively decided to focus on. If I recall correctly, the developers even said that Takumi and Leon were specifically designed to be attractive to female players, and Camilla's intended sex appeal is pretty straightforward. Even if there isn't dialogue in game that says "You should totally tap that", the sibling characters are designed to be attractive to YOU. I say "encouraged to" as a hyperbole of "it's not in any way discouraged to shack up with your siblings, and the story warps to accommodate this choice if you make it".

Well it's not as if incest hasn't been a recurring element of FE. I'm more pissed at the execution than anything else, especially since preserving the dragon's blood within their veins would've been a perfectly valid excuse, considering that a similar plot point was a pretty major part of Judgral. It's basically just what's already happened in the franchise run through the waifu/husbando/fanservice filter.

How? How do you sleep at night after witnessing such unspeakable horrors?

I've read so many that I have emerged out the other side and transcended into a zen-like state of misanthropy and nihilism. If misery builds character, then I've reached Nirvana :D

[Thane]

Couse not, nothing wrong with it. But I can't really see a movie getting away with the same kind of thing without receiving a much higher rating or being heavily censored. If you want other examples, how about X-Blade, the crossover with SMT, the countless fantasy games with chainmail bikinis and so on.

I've read so many that I have emerged out the other side and transcended into a zen-like state of misanthropy and nihilism. If misery builds character, then I've reached Nirvana :D

I don't understand what we're arguing about anymore because I agree with you. If it doesn't fit the narrative then it shouldn't be there. If chainmail bikinis are so bloody important to some designers then there should at the very least be male equivalents. However, I feel like we've derailed the topic enough.

Well yeah, you sure must have. I've read very few in my days but most have been absolutely horrendous; I swear the ratio must be like 95-5 or something between horrible piles of miserable garbage to good.

I do remember reading the winner of Blizzard's WoW writing contest, and it was so good that they decided to make it canon. "In the shadow of the sun", I believe the name was.

[General Banzai]

By offensive I meant intelligence-insulting. Things like meeting your long-lost birth mother after a lifetime of separation only for her to die the very next scene and it's supposed to be some huge tragedy. I will say Fates has some good moments, but it also has crippling, crippling bad ones.

[ckc22]

I disagree with that, I prefer mini-arcs rather than one long arc.

Mini-arcs are great for world-building.

Path of Radiance is a good example of this.

If you use it well and there are subtle connections or they lead into each other naturally. Awakening has arcs that feel too separate and contained imo.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I don't understand what we're arguing about anymore because I agree with you. If it doesn't fit the narrative then it shouldn't be there. If chainmail bikinis are so bloody important to some designers then there should at the very least be male equivalents. However, I feel like we've derailed the topic enough.

Well yeah, you sure must have. I've read very few in my days but most have been absolutely horrendous; I swear the ratio must be like 95-5 or something between horrible piles of miserable garbage to good.

I do remember reading the winner of Blizzard's WoW writing contest, and it was so good that they decided to make it canon. "In the shadow of the sun", I believe the name was.

Something like that :D. Sturgeon's law is hard at work when it comes to fanfiction, but the same could be said for most things.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Phillius

[RedRob]

Couse not, nothing wrong with it. But I can't really see a movie getting away with the same kind of thing without receiving a much higher rating or being heavily censored. If you want other examples, how about X-Blade, the crossover with SMT, the countless fantasy games with chainmail bikinis and so on.

Well it's not as if incest hasn't been a recurring element of FE. I'm more pissed at the execution than anything else, especially since preserving the dragon's blood within their veins would've been a perfectly valid excuse, considering that a similar plot point was a pretty major part of Judgral. It's basically just what's already happened in the franchise run through the waifu/husbando/fanservice filter.

I've read so many that I have emerged out the other side and transcended into a zen-like state of misanthropy and nihilism. If misery builds character, then I've reached Nirvana :D

I remember a comic where a murderous sociopath achieved inner peace, reaching a state of reverse Nirvana, which allowed him to shoot mind bullets.

So in short, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DON'T KILL US!!!

Jokes aside, I once thought of Corrin finding out he's not related to the Hoshidians by blood at all after siding with them, resulting in him killing Mikoto in a blind rage, believing she lied about being his mother.

Also the crossover was about idols, so fanservice was a given.

Now for a presentation of Fates flaws in a form of a joke.

Me: Corrin, when are you going to act like the hero you technically are?

Nohrrin: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! NOBODY UNDERSTANDS! PEOPLE KEEP DYING WHENEVER I TRY TO HELP THE-

Horrin: *punches Nohrrin* Shut up you whiny ass! This is what you get for not choosing Hoshido. *kicks Nohrrin repeatedly in the gut*

Nohrrin: *cries like a little bitch*

Me: *notices Azura is in the room* Aren't you going to put a stop to this? Or at least explain how this is happening?

Azura: Meh, fuck it. Too lazy.

*Camila arrives*

Camila: *in a singsong voice* Corrin, I'm here to bone you- There's two of you!? Ooohh myyyy..... *orgasms at the thought of a threesome*

Me: Well this has gone to hell. *backflips the fuck out of there*

[Time the Crestfallen]

I remember a comic where a murderous sociopath achieved inner peace, reaching a state of reverse Nirvana, which allowed him to shoot mind bullets.

So in short, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DON'T KILL US!!!

Jokes aside, I once thought of Corrin finding out he's not related to the Hoshidians by blood at all after siding with them, resulting in him killing Mikoto in a blind rage, believing she lied about being his mother.

Also the crossover was about idols, so fanservice was a given.

Now for a presentation of Fates flaws in a form of a joke.

Me: Corrin, when are you going to act like the hero you technically are?

Nohrrin: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! NOBODY UNDERSTANDS! PEOPLE KEEP DYING WHENEVER I TRY TO HELP THE-

Horrin: *punches Nohrrin* Shut up you whiny ass! This is what you get for not choosing Hoshido. *kicks Nohrrin repeatedly in the gut*

Nohrrin: *cries like a little bitch*

Me: *notices Azura is in the room* Aren't you going to put a stop to this? Or at least explain how this is happening?

Azura: Meh, fuck it. Too lazy.

*Camila arrives*

Camila: *in a singsong voice* Corrin, I'm here to bone you- There's two of you!? Ooohh myyyy..... *orgasms at the thought of a threesome*

Me: Well this has gone to hell. *backflips the fuck out of there*

There's also this for Conquest:

[RedRob]

There's also this for Conquest:

We need a thread just for jokes like this. Heck I'm creating one.

[Abysswalker25]

I enjoyed conquest. Not the best story, but I expected it after what people said. However, It wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. The gameplay and characters make it a solid addition to the FE series. I felt it was way better than Awakening, which I also enjoyed.

I await Revelations. If only I was super fast and had money to get the Special Edition and get it early. Sold out in like 5 minutes.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Abysswalker25