Snipers: DEBATE

[Florete]

Oh ok...

-40k is not a fatal blow.

And there's nothing stopping you from using two snipers (Rebecca and Louise), especially when Louise comes with that A with Pent making him that much better. and is also essentially +10k due to being already promoted.

fix'd

It's 50k, and it's a pretty darn huge blow.

Rebecca and Wil are both assumed to be played, so Louise is likely to not be played on account of her being an addition that isn't contributing except maybe a support with Pent, which isn't good enough on its own to get her played. One Sniper is all anyone really needs, so three is overkill.

[canas is back]

It's 50k, and it's a pretty darn huge blow.

Rebecca and Wil are both assumed to be played, so Louise is likely to not be played on account of her being an addition that isn't contributing except maybe a support with Pent, which isn't good enough on its own to get her played. One Sniper is all anyone really needs, so three is overkill.

also, it takes a slot away from a better character, and kills tactics or exp,besides bows are expensive themselves so

BOWS+ 50 K PROMOTION=FAILED FUNDS

[Reikken]

It's 50k, and it's a pretty darn huge blow.

Everyone else uses 10k. 50k is only 40k over that, so it's 40k.

Rebecca and Wil are both assumed to be played,

Of course, since you can't evaluate a character that doesn't exist, but they don't need to both be fielded at once. That makes no sense.

[Florete]

Let's see what I can pull out...

Supports - They're getting each other. Here's why.

Wil's other supports:

Dart - Not played in ranks

Lyn - Wants Florina or Kent more. Plus, Rebecca's evade > Lyn's Critical evade. Plus, Rebecca is faster.

Rath - Not likely to be played on account of being another bow user

Wallace - Not likely to be recruited at all, much less played

Raven - Takes too long to be worth it

Wil wants Rebecca

Rebecca's other supports:

Dart - Not played in ranks

Louise - Not likely to be played on account of being another bow user

Nino - Comes too late to make use of supports

Lowen - A possible alternative, though rather long

Sain - Also possible, though not as good as Lowen. Longer, and Lowen's evade>Sain's crit evade

Raven - Possible, but not as good as Lowen for her. Also long.

Rebecca wants Wil the most, though possibly Lowen.

They are likely to be around the same level when they meet, though Rebecca is notably harder to raise. Level 8 sounds like a fair level.

Rebecca:

HP: 21.2

Str: 6.8

Skill: 8.5

Spd: 10.2

Luck: 7.5

Def: 4.05

Res: 3.1

Wil:

HP: 24.5

Str: 9

Sk: 8

Sp: 7.4

Lk: 8.4

Df: 6.2

Rs: 1.5

Wil wins in: HP, Str, luck, Def. Rebecca wins in: Skill, Sp, Res.

Who is better here is arguable. They shouldn't be attacked head on, so the HP, Def, and Res don't matter too much. Thus, Wil does more damage and Rebecca is doubling more and (barely) hitting more. However, if Rebecca is paired with Lowen, she may easily have a C-support by now, closing the gap in power and further boosting her in hitting, dodging, and critting. No clear winner here.

Let's advance to promotion. On account of the second Orion's Bolt appearing on Four-Fanged Offense, they can easily be promoted together.

Rebecca lv 1 Sniper

HP: 32.4

St: 14.6

Sk: 15.5

Sp: 18.4

Lk: 13.5

Df: 7.85

Rs: 8.7

Wil lv 1 Sniper

HP: 36.5

St: 16

Sk: 16

Sp: 14.2

Lk: 13.2

Df: 10.6

Rs: 7.5

Wil wins in: HP, st, sk, def. Rebecca wins in: Sp, luck, res

The differences in st, sk, luck, and res are so small they're hardly noticeable. Thus, Wil has better durability in HP and def while Rebecca is faster. Since they shouldn't be attacked up close, I'd say Rebecca has a bit of an advantage here. They're likely supporting each other, so... yeah.

As for B supports...

Rebecca likely has Lowen, helping her close the minor gaps in str and hit and boosting her avoid and crit.

Wil likely has Lyn, which re-opens the minor gaps in str and hit, yet not helping him avoid anything. This is faster than Rebecca's Lowen B, but doesn't start until later, so that evens things out again. Another problem is that when Lyn hits 20, she isn't being deployed until promotion unless a bonus slot is available, which doesn't come much.

Finally, endgame stats. lv 15 sounds fair:

Rebecca:

HP: 40.8

St: 20.2

Sk 22.5

Sp: 26.8

Lk: 20.5

Df: 9.95

Rs: 12.9

Wil:

Hp: 47

st: 23

sk: 23

sp: 19.8

lk: 18.8

df: 13.4

rs: 11

Wil wins in: HP, st, sk, def. Rebecca wins in: Sp, luck, res

Differences are more noticeable. .5 Skill difference is really nothing. 7 speed is something, but enemies are slow, so Wil is still likely to double a good deal of the time. Wil still has the durability and Rebecca still has the dodging. Neither really matters much since they aren't likely to be attacked, but given the possibility, I'd say Rebecca is more likely to live on account of dodging more often. Supports are the same, minus Lyn not being deployed.

It almost comes down to personal preference. The speedy dodger, or the heavier hitter? Do you mind a bit of a challenge earlier? My vote is on the speedy dodger, as her joining conditions are obsolete to me.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Fox

[_____]

Lowen wants Marcus A/Eliwood B or Eliwood A/Marcus B more than Rebecca B.

[Doom103]

Wil is a cooler character, but Rebbecca has better stats so I use Wil, but my Wil turned out very good on my second play through

[¬_¬]

I'd only use Wil if I were to overuse him all of Lyn's mode, but I prefer using the Cavaliers and Erk.

Rebecca > Wil in my book, coming from the guy who used his name.

[Florete]

Lowen wants Marcus A/Eliwood B or Eliwood A/Marcus B more than Rebecca B.

I can't see how anyone would want Marcus. He's not a great character later, so it would essentially be a wasted support.

[Swordsalmon]

I can't see how anyone would want Marcus. He's not a great character later, so it would essentially be a wasted support.

Because he's incredible at start and still is pretty good by late-game due to level advantage and supports.

[Tino]

Marcus is like a slightly worse Titania or Seth. He is massively, massively underrated and underestimated because of all those FAQs saying that he sucks.

[Florete]

In comparison to the other Paladins minus Isadora, he does suck... Aren't all three better than him upon promotion or possibly sooner?

[Swordsalmon]

In comparison to the other Paladins minus Isadora, he does suck... Aren't all three better than him upon promotion or possibly sooner?

None of them match Marcus in early-game, and he's cheaper to use.

[Reikken]

In comparison to the other Paladins minus Isadora, he does suck... Aren't all three better than him upon promotion or possibly sooner?

Yes. It's just that he's INCREDIBLY AMAZING early on and stays decent enough later. His spd will be utter garbage later on, but fortunately for him, this game's average enemy AS is extremely low. Not that he can double everything or anything like that. But he can DA a fair amount. And he has decent str and has good durability thanks to his class and supports. I wouldn't use him after the early chapters, but doing so is not a bad idea.

[_____]

In comparison to the other Paladins minus Isadora, he does suck... Aren't all three better than him upon promotion or possibly sooner?

The same could be said of Titania or Seth. They're both good.

[Reikken]

It can't, actually.

[Tino]

When I'm talking about a "better" character, I'm talking about a character who helps you the most during game, and Marcus is almost a necessity earlygame. And he's not as bad lategame as most people say, so he is indeed better than the other Paladins. From the way I define "better", that is.

[Florete]

The same could be said of Titania or Seth. They're both good.

They both have good growths. Seth especially has arguably the best Paladin growths in the game.

[_____]

They both have good growths. Seth especially has arguably the best Paladin growths in the game.

And yet the other Paladins surpass him and Titania, eventually. Marcus does not have terrible growths; he doesn't have the best growths ever, I admit, but he's useable.

[Florete]

And yet the other Paladins surpass him and Titania, eventually. Marcus does not have terrible growths; he doesn't have the best growths ever, I admit, but he's useable.

That's why I don't consider them to be truly awesome characters. But they are both better for their respective games than Marcus is for this one.

[Tino]

That's why I don't consider them to be truly awesome characters. But they are both better for their respective games than Marcus is for this one.

That is definitely true. They are the best in their respective games, while Marcus is not in his.

[Swordsalmon]

And yet the other Paladins surpass him and Titania, eventually. Marcus does not have terrible growths; he doesn't have the best growths ever, I admit, but he's useable.

No one really surpasses Seth, except for possibly Moulder. :/ He has some really nice supports that more than make up for Seth's slightly weaker end-game stats.

[_____]

That's why I don't consider them to be truly awesome characters. But they are both better for their respective games than Marcus is for this one.

Yet he's still useable, and he's still a moderatly useful character. I could say "Aran sucks because Nephenee is better!", which isn't true. Aran is a good character. He's just overshadowed by Nephenee.

[Tino]

Besides, there's no rule that says you can't use both Aran and Nephenee.

[Florete]

Yet he's still useable, and he's still a moderatly useful character. I could say "Aran sucks because Nephenee is better!", which isn't true. Aran is a good character. He's just overshadowed by Nephenee.

I didn't say he was unusable. But I find it better to use him as little as possible. He's not horrible later in the game, but everyone else will likely be so much better that he'll seem that much worse. Thus, I find using him a lot to generally be a bad idea.

Aran is on a different team for a while, so his usefulness is much different. Come endgame, I much prefer Nephenee myself.

[_____]

I didn't say he was unusable. But I find it better to use him as little as possible. He's not horrible later in the game, but everyone else will likely be so much better that he'll seem that much worse. Thus, I find using him a lot to generally be a bad idea.

Aran is on a different team for a while, so his usefulness is much different. Come endgame, I much prefer Nephenee myself.

But you do admit that a unit that is surpassed by another unit still has a chance to be used and can be useful for a period of time, correct?

Edited October 9, 2008 by ChaosNinji