Fire Emblem Fates: The Good and the Bad (spoilers)

[Jagged Jagen]

My list of opinions:

The Great/Good:

- Aesthetics: Fire Emblem Fates is a great looking and sounding game. From the system boundary pushing graphics to the numerous musical tracks, it's great. Many Fire Emblem games are good in aesthetics for their respective system, Fates is no different.

- Birthright's Story: Birthright's story, whilst mostly an archetypal FE story, had tight writing, good characters and many jaw dropping moments.

- The new Weapon Triangle: With the trinity of magic gone, I felt too many weapons were outside a triangle, until Fates fixed this by adding more weapons into the iconic triangle, it's great!

- Some Map Design: Some maps in Fates (Conquest in particular) are absolutely stellar.

The Ok/Mixed:

- Map Design as a whole: Whilst some maps are good, others leave something to be desired. Each path has their strengths and weaknesses in Map design. On the whole, the map design has its ups and downs.

- Rebalanced Pair-Up: Good in theory, mixed in execution. More incentives to Dual Strike and/or more disincentives to Dual Guard would IMO be beneficial.

- Removal of Weapon Durability: Not a bad system, but not enough that strikes me as unique. Stat debuffs aren't bad, but given that the game also has Dragon's Vein gimmicks, concealed weapons and status staves to lower stats, I feel the increase that the new system provides in statistical complexity, fails to counterract what is lost in inventory/fund management.

- Characters: The cast of Fates is mostly solid, but they haven't really stood out in my mind in comparison to some other casts (Namely Rekkas, Awakenings and Sacred Stones)

- My Castle: My Castle is an ok distraction in between levels, but I don't feel it is very deep by simulation game standards, and that it leads to some balance issues in the game similar to the World Map has done before.

The Bad

- Conquest's Story: The story for Conquest has most certainly been a point of contention with some people liking it and some not so much. Unfortunately, I fall in the latter category. I feel there was a lot of potential that was unfortunately missed in the story.

- The Villains: I wish the villains had more depth than they do. IMO, the villains on their own are somewhat passable, but coming from a series where Arvis, Nergal, The Black Knight and Lyon all exist, there is a lot to be desired.

- Fanservice: I don't mind Kozaki's art, I really don't, but I don't think the armor design is doing the series any favours at the moment. More subtle designs in future would be desired.

- Children: They feel shoehorned in, to be honest. I understand that it was a popular mechanic, but I also feel it should either be plot relevant or not in the game.

- Tonal Dissonance: I feel one of the bigger issues with Fates is the inconsistent tone. Simply put, the non-linear focused gameplay goes against some of the tonal moments (ex. Corrin is devastated by ____, whatever that may be, and then parties at My Castle, and then goes back to being devastated immediately after).

These are my opinions on Fates.

Edited March 7, 2016 by DeoGame

[Alex95]

I got a few more I forgot:

Good:

• The graphics. They are amazing! The style really improved after Awakening and the visuals look sharper.

Bad:

• Corrin sucks as a unit... (As least to me, anyway)

Eh:

• While the graphics are great, some of the designs in clothing aren't. Most of them don't look very practical, even.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Power Master

[Emblem Blade]

I got a few more I forgot:

Good:

• The graphics. They are amazing! The style really improved after Awakening and the visuals look sharper.

Bad:

• Corrin sucks as a unit... (As least to me, anyway)

Eh:

• While the graphics are great, some of the designs in clothing aren't. Most of them don't look very practical, even.

How does Corrin 'suck' as a unit?

Clothing design is indeed 'meh'...they made the class designs better for both new and returning characters (including class-exclusive) . Some designs for characters in general (classes not unique characters) that have been used in every game could be a bit better.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I got a few more I forgot:

Bad:

• Corrin sucks as a unit... (As least to me, anyway)

Brah, git gud. Honestly, its hard to Corn to suck as a unit.

[Alex95]

My Corrin dies within, like, two hits. I'm training, but it's slow going.

[Emblem Blade]

My Corrin dies within, like, two hits. I'm training, but it's slow going.

Going down...in two hits!? How is that possible even in Hard? I can understand somehow about Lunatic but Hard? Unless you're in the mid or late game, going down in two hits seems so odd.

[Katryn]

Okay, I'll play. Here are my thoughts:

The Good:

-- New Pair-Up System: It actually has logical patterns as to how it works, and the enemies use it too which makes it more believable / fair.

-- The new weapons triangle: I like how everything has a place and purpose now. It also won't let me get as much away with stacking mages over archers as I did in Awakening.

-- The overall aesthetic design: I like how Nohr and Hoshido have their own distinct flavor. It makes playing each campaign its own unique experience and i think Hoshido's aesthetics breath some fresh life / a fresh design choice into the series.

-- The characters: Overall I am really thrilled with the diverse and interesting roster of characters that can be used throughout the various routes. I think there's someone here to suit a wide variety of tastes and that anyone playing can likely find a favorite that will only get better when their supports begin to be explored.

-- Birthright's story: It's not perfect, but it is good within the standards of the series and (a few needless / melodramatic deaths aside) I feel it provides a satisfying arc for obtaining justice for the wrongs that happen during the game's setup.

-- The way areas available in both games are utilized uniquely (and / or with interesting details for someone who's played another version) in each game. I think the way that map assets were handled is really clever. It allowed the team to utilize assets without that coming across as cheap or annoying to me, and the impact I felt it had on each story as also interesting.

-- Music. The game has absolutely fantastic music. Need I say more? I also like how you can pick what track plays at your MyCastle.

-- Supports / Marriage System: These are two of my favorite things about Fire Emblem. (To be clear, I adore the support system and see marriage as a bonus. I don't *need* a marriage system to pair characters up: I'm a romance novelist. I'd do that anyway. But I'm more than happy to use the system if it's there.)

The Meh / Okay:

-- Weapon durability / stat system. I'm still having trouble getting a good grip on how weapons work right now (although it's looking like "Get iron +2s and prosper is the basic strategy). It has also lead to a couple chapters where I've forgotten to buy healing items. Whoops.

-- Return of the Awakening Trio: I didn't get far enough in Awakening / do enough pairings in Awakening to get these characters there, but even with that said I'm not sure I'm totally for bringing characters from one game to the next (Expect Anna--she's FE's Cid and totally doesn't count under any of my recurring character issues.)

-- Conquest's Story: There are serious problems and as a writer I can totally see why others are getting very bent out of shape over it. That said, I do think it contains some worthwhile aspects and even the bad stuff can be used by me, as a writer, as a learning tool. I'll save my ire for the true problems; not the plot as a whole.

-- MyCastle: It feels like a facebook game, and I've just never been a fan of those. I admire that they tried to implement a way to take a break between missions, and in Birthright it works decently (not so much in Conquest, imo). I like the stores, the lottery shop, finding items, having characters cook unique food to boost stats, end collecting resources that can help with forging better weapons. (I like forging as a concept but I think it needs more refinement to prevent the iron+ issue I mentioned earlier.) I don't like building hearts with my husband (I get the feeling something was suppose to happen at those (!) points rather than non-existent flowers), bringing random people over to talk (If they had more to say or if bringing them over made more of a difference. Right now I don't see a point really.) I'll get to my real gripes under "Ugly".

The Ugly:

-- The "Crystal Ball" Conspiracy and it's ilk: There are some bad, bad plot tools used in these games and they really take a fantastic premise in some craptacular directions. The FE Fight Club Curse, everything Garon, the amount of railroading in Conquest, some stupid pointless deaths in Birthright, Scarlet abuse, etc.

-- Feeding Lilith / PVP -- The former is tedious beyond words and the latter I currently don't understand, but found annoying when I was trying to do invasions. I'll also put the accessory shop here--I love the premise but getting what's needed for those accessories is a pain. (Until you get the initial piece--then it can be fun on birthright to get the additional pieces using the arena.)

-- The Hoshidan reincarnated trio -- Why is this a thing? I would have preferred unique characters.

-- The way this game implemented babies: I've got nothing against children, but if you are going to include them do it well. The Deeprealms (or whatever; I may have the name wrong?) are just ***another*** FFIV swipe from the Land of Summoned Monsters Rydia goes to in order to come back as an adult at a later point. I don't despise them as much as some people since I *did* like the implementation of LoSM in that game, but it makes my jaw risk further bruising every time I see how many parallels this game has to my favorite game of all times. (Except for the fact that they both have amazing soundtracks--that parallel is welcome to stay.)

***

All in all I really love what I've played of both games (I'm at Conquest 17 / Birthright 21 respectively) and I am looking forward to enjoying Revelation, DLC and further playthroughs to uncover things I missed / pair people I didn't pair in my initial runs. I think there are things that could have been better, but *as a game* I think Fates deserves the praise that it has received and I think that its positive reception bodes well for the future of the series. I know I'll be eager to see where it goes from here.

[PeaceRibbon]

FYI I've only beaten Birthright.

Good

Characters- The cast isn't perfect, (looking at you, Awakening rip-offs) but its certainly filled with memorable characters that are worth caring about. It also helps that support conversations are easier to get than ever before.

Music- No elaboration required.

Core Gameplay- Very solid. Hidden weapons adds a lot to the strategy, and the maps are well designed. Some are a bit boring, but still well designed.

Revamped Class System- Immediate Heart Seal use. So good!

Graphics- The in-game graphics don't really try that hard to be different from awakening, but that's not a bad thing. And goodness those CG cutscenes!

Bad

Story- Heartfelt, but overall lacking. One of the things that made the other stories in the series great was the fact you went to a variety of places with a lot of different goals, even if you didn't play the paralouges. Fates, unfortunately, felt like one long string of events that led up to one exact goal. There are good events, but overall not many of them feel like they're important.

Fanservice- It's straight up sad. I still like the character designs, but if this keeps up we gonna have way to much sexualization, and future games won't be all that comfortable to play at times.

Castle Invasions- The enemies are way too many in number, and your defenders are way too spaced apart for it to be fair.

---

Overall, I think this game is a good entry in the series, and worth it's price tag. Picking which side of the conflict you want to fight for is a novel idea that adds to the experience, and the gameplay is still a lot of fun. Take my complaints with a grain of salt, because they're not huge in the long run.

[Alex95]

Going down...in two hits!? How is that possible even in Hard? I can understand somehow about Lunatic but Hard? Unless you're in the mid or late game, going down in two hits seems so odd.

I suck at strategy :P. Two hits is the average, actually. If I'm lucky, he can take four! He's level 16, btw, so I don't know how he's not lasting long. I blame the stat growths...

[Emblem Blade]

I suck at strategy :P. Two hits is the average, actually. If I'm lucky, he can take four! He's level 16, btw, so I don't know how he's not lasting long. I blame the stat growths...

Reminds me of how bad my units had for strength growths on my main file for Birthright...had horrible times where they would get a + up in their Strength Stat after about 5 runs each.

[Lann La Mirah]

I finished only Conquest, but here are my thoughts!

The good:

• New classes! New weapons! New weapon triangle!
• New pair up system!
• Great looking CGs!
• Good music!
• More interesting map designs than Awakening
• The characters are really likable
• The story premise is great! But...

The bad:

• Well, it's been mentioned to death, but the story definitely could use work. :S Loved the premise, but it fell flat. I didn't actually think it was that bad, but it left much to be desired.
• Did anyone else think that Azura felt separate from the other royal siblings? She was a major character, they were major characters, and their interactions with each other seemed... minimal after the prologue? Maybe that was just me.
• The clothing designs for some of the characters. The dark mages particularly. :/ Though the battle panties are pretty weird too.
• They bring back 6 Awakening characters, but not Henry??
• Children mechanic is odd
• "Bond" option feels odd to me too, but it's cute
• The three route thing is cool, but why release it in two versions? Conquest didn't really feel complete by itself...
• The world didn't feel fleshed out. I mean, it's not NOT fleshed out, but I guess I didn't really feel like I knew Nohr very well by the end of it.

Other thoughts:

• I actually haven't played male Corrin, but I'm assuming it's a relatively similar experience to female Corrin besides spouse options? I kinda wish the male and female routes were a little more different from each other, like Persona 3 Portable.

Despite my large list of negatives, I really loved Conquest to pieces. As much as I loved Awakening, I really think Fates tops it except for the no Henry thing.

[Emblem Blade]

I finished only Conquest, but here are my thoughts!

The good:

• New classes! New weapons! New weapon triangle!
• New pair up system!
• Great looking CGs!
• Good music!
• More interesting map designs than Awakening
• The characters are really likable
• The story premise is great! But...

The bad:

• Well, it's been mentioned to death, but the story definitely could use work. :S Loved the premise, but it fell flat. I didn't actually think it was that bad, but it left much to be desired.
• Did anyone else think that Azura felt separate from the other royal siblings? She was a major character, they were major characters, and their interactions with each other seemed... minimal after the prologue? Maybe that was just me.
• The clothing designs for some of the characters. The dark mages particularly. :/ Though the battle panties are pretty weird too.
• They bring back 6 Awakening characters, but not Henry??
• Children mechanic is odd
• "Bond" option feels odd to me too, but it's cute
• The three route thing is cool, but why release it in two versions? Conquest didn't really feel complete by itself...
• The world didn't feel fleshed out. I mean, it's not NOT fleshed out, but I guess I didn't really feel like I knew Nohr very well by the end of it.

Other thoughts:

• I actually haven't played male Corrin, but I'm assuming it's a relatively similar experience to female Corrin besides spouse options? I kinda wish the male and female routes were a little more different from each other, like Persona 3 Portable.

Despite my large list of negatives, I really loved Conquest to pieces. As much as I loved Awakening, I really think Fates tops it except for the no Henry thing.

Not really 'six' Awakening characters...more of three actual Awakening characters and three expies of the more popular characters (Cordelia, Gaius and Tharja). The only implication of anything are their respective bios and appearance otherwise just expies (Rahjat does imply though that she has met Corrin before which gives a scary thought).

Revelations apparently could be seen as a filler story, something to help cover up the holes that the Birthright and Conquest had involving how the events in both routes happened/took place.

Male and female routes? As in Corrin's support relationships?

[saisymbolic]

I finished only Conquest, but here are my thoughts!

The good:

• New classes! New weapons! New weapon triangle!
• New pair up system!
• Great looking CGs!
• Good music!
• More interesting map designs than Awakening
• The characters are really likable
• The story premise is great! But...

The bad:

• Well, it's been mentioned to death, but the story definitely could use work. :S Loved the premise, but it fell flat. I didn't actually think it was that bad, but it left much to be desired.
• Did anyone else think that Azura felt separate from the other royal siblings? She was a major character, they were major characters, and their interactions with each other seemed... minimal after the prologue? Maybe that was just me.
• The clothing designs for some of the characters. The dark mages particularly. :/ Though the battle panties are pretty weird too.
• They bring back 6 Awakening characters, but not Henry??
• Children mechanic is odd
• "Bond" option feels odd to me too, but it's cute
• The three route thing is cool, but why release it in two versions? Conquest didn't really feel complete by itself...
• The world didn't feel fleshed out. I mean, it's not NOT fleshed out, but I guess I didn't really feel like I knew Nohr very well by the end of it.

Other thoughts:

• I actually haven't played male Corrin, but I'm assuming it's a relatively similar experience to female Corrin besides spouse options? I kinda wish the male and female routes were a little more different from each other, like Persona 3 Portable.

Despite my large list of negatives, I really loved Conquest to pieces. As much as I loved Awakening, I really think Fates tops it except for the no Henry thing.

Too bad the routes in P3P weren't that different from each other outside of the supports, some dialogue and the color scheme.

(Funny. Despite that, the non-canonical girl route in P3P still feels more canonical than the canonical boy route.)

I agree with just about everything with the poster I quoted. The only thing we differ on is the dark mage/sorcerer design. After the mercenary/hero design, it is my favorite.

I do have few nitpicks, though.

The nitpicks:

• I disliked how they censored Niles' dialogue because it took the fun out of all of my favorite supports including him. They ruined my OTP Arthur x Niles and messed up the bukkake moment in Niles x Felicia.
• As much as I like certain children, I dislike the Hyperbolic Time Chamber implementation of them. According to Sophie x Silas support, it had only been weeks since they put her in the Time Chamber. You can court her as Mamui. You can court a person that is technically only a few weeks old in your world?
• Avatar customization is limited. The hair choices, in particular. I have only two that I continue to pick--that is, one for each gender.
• The My Room conversations were butchered--I feel like this is divine retribution for the skinship being cut from the localization. Instead of getting interesting tidbits of conversation about the characters, now I get repetitive comments about jack shit that I could care less about but I keep doing it because I like looking at the Live 2D models.
• The implementation of same-sex marriage and how you lose out on children. Not the fact that same-sex marriage is in, mind you. I wish Rhajat was not the Femui choice. Tharja was tolerable in Awakening; I did not want her again in Fates. I wish it had been Flora/Felicia, given their blind love for Kamui. Jakob/Silas could have been for Mamui despite how I love Niles. There was a suggestion on how they could have handled the child mechanic on another page of this thread and it could have covered everything child-related in this game. If anything, that was what the Bond Unit thing should have been instead.
• Lilith. Why is she even here?
• Inivisble Kingdom. Why would you make a game based off the theme of choice when you circumvent that by introducing a path that defeats the entire purpose?
• I dislike how they took away the unique weapon icons for each weapon. I keep looking at them, thinking I can see how each weapon looks, only to realize I'm looking at the same damn thing.

I think those are all my nitpicks.

[Aggro Incarnate]

I've been seeing some complaints about how often one is encouraged to use dual guards than dual attack but I'm not sure if this is the case. At least for some of the higher difficulties I think there are more incentives to use dual attacks; In Conquest Lunatic a recurring theme are certain enemy placements or reinforcements that simply cannot be dealt with guard stance. One needs to get rid of most of the the block of enemies, pronto, ASAP, and the need for the manpower to get rid of all of them within the player phase encourages one to use dual attacks instead of relying on dual guard. In many ways I feel that I'm rather encouraged to use dual attack in higher difficulties, though not always (which is a good thing: being encouraged to choose out of the two given the situation is optimal), but perhaps that's more testament to my personal style of playing, or perhaps the situation is a lot different on Hard Mode I guess... (I'm especially thinking chapters 11, 13, 14, 17, 18, 23, and 24)

[Party Moth]

I won't go into detail because my opinions are generally polarizing and I've spent enough time on here rambling about them.

The Good:

-Gameplay: Conquest in particular is a nice return to form after the onslaught of seize and rout enemy post-Radiant Dawn. The three routes are a nice method of experimentation to see what sort of gameplay resonates best with consumers, and the balancing of experience and Pair Up is refreshing. Probably one of the smoothest playing experiences in the series.

The "Meh":

-Music: I must be the only person on earth who isn't buying how "amazing" the music is. It's a step down from Awakening in terms of handling melodic material, and more often than not there are strange orchestration choices that don't lead to good timbres, sloppy articulations, and generally a poorer handling of the samples being used. Azura's theme is particularly polarizing, as it is often thrown into tracks with no retrogrades, inversions, or even changes in tonality due to its pentatonic nature. This is in contrast with Awakening's three primary identities, which mold themselves into the tonalities, melodic lines, and other identities in fluid ways more often than not. There are moments where it strikes true (tritone modulation and rising tension of the Chapter 6 map theme is well executed), but overall it falls apart upon further analysis. Perhaps it is obvious that I am a music composition major.

The Bad:

-Children: Poorly implemented, and makes the already superfluous anachronism of story events even more convoluted without violently rending story and gameplay from each other even more.