Obama Clearly won the debate

[Cynthia]

well if we are so self centered, then how come the UN still exists, how come we are the largest country by charitable givings, the list could go on, but there is something to philantrophy.

Once again, America is making excuses for it.

Might as well start telling other countries they owe us favors now.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Cynthia

[sandmanccl]

That is an opinion, and actually you're wrong, as there is a higher acceptance rate for homosexuals in England than here, and that would be the group I fall under, since I am undecided about my preference, but I'm leaning more towards a homosexual side.

Sure America SAYS they accept them, but how many people do? They can't even get married here.

There is a MUCH higher acceptance rate in England, than in America. I'm sorry, but America is one of the most self centered countries in the world, and that is a fact.

Ever been to Europe? They are more prejudiced against gay people on average than you are going to find among large cities here in the United States. Sure, if you're talking about the crazy successionists in the South, you're not going to find a lot of people who care for you, but move to New York or pretty much anywhere in California, basically move to any Metropolis in the United States, and you'll find more acceptance for gay people than you will in foreign countries.

This opinion was formed by a gay friend of mine that went to college in a liberal part of England and returned to the US because he couldn't take the prejudice.

Racism is a problem here. I'm not going to deny that. It's hard to overcome racism when the most racist people in the country are the ones that continue to scream "IT'S JUST BECAUSE I'M [insert ethnic minority here], ISN'T IT?"

@ Doom103: Hate and Love are linked. You can't hate something unless you love something else, and love turns into hate quite easily.

[Cynthia]

Ever been to Europe? They are more prejudiced against gay people on average than you are going to find among large cities here in the United States. Sure, if you're talking about the crazy successionists in the South, you're not going to find a lot of people who care for you, but move to New York or pretty much anywhere in California, basically move to any Metropolis in the United States, and you'll find more acceptance for gay people than you will in foreign countries.

This opinion was formed by a gay friend of mine that went to college in a liberal part of England and returned to the US because he couldn't take the prejudice.

Racism is a problem here. I'm not going to deny that. It's hard to overcome racism when the most racist people in the country are the ones that continue to scream "IT'S JUST BECAUSE I'M [insert ethnic minority here], ISN'T IT?"

@ Doom103: Hate and Love are linked. You can't hate something unless you love something else, and love turns into hate quite easily.

It's funny you should say that.. I LIVE in New York, and I'm not seeing this acceptance, if anything, it's WORSE here. As when I went to New Jersey, I encountered more and more people who accepted it.

I've been all over New York state too, so it's not like I'm in 1 small area, it's all over.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I believe there really can't be much worse than people KILLING homosexuals for the sole reason of being homosexual. That happens in New York ALL the time.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Cynthia

[sandmanccl]

Well okay. Maybe New York was a bad example. New York is a rather strange place.

But seriously, it's not so bad out here on the West Coast. I'm from Las Vegas, NV, which might as well be part of California because of all the people who've moved here from SoCal over the past two decades.

The problem with being different is that there's always going to be nutjobs that hate you for it. I'm born and raised Mormon and I can't tell you how much shit I've taken from people over the years. All I'm trying to say is that moving to another country isn't going to "solve the problem."

[Cynthia]

Well okay. Maybe New York was a bad example. New York is a rather strange place.

But seriously, it's not so bad out here on the West Coast. I'm from Las Vegas, NV, which might as well be part of California because of all the people who've moved here from SoCal over the past two decades.

The problem with being different is that there's always going to be nutjobs that hate you for it. I'm born and raised Mormon and I can't tell you how much shit I've taken from people over the years. All I'm trying to say is that moving to another country isn't going to "solve the problem."

I didn't say it would solve the problem, in fact I admitted, it happens over there as well. I honestly have other reasons for wanting to leave as well. I don't even see why you're defending why I should stay, I have the right to leave, so there is no point in trying to convince me to stay.

I'm unhappy in this country, and I wish to return to my heritage. I have more faith in them, than here, and that's what it's all about, faith. If you have no faith in your country, you will never be happy there. I have lost my faith in ours, as it really ISN'T, "the greatest country in the world." There is no such thing.

Yes, America has it pretty good, but it's not the greatest place in the world as some Americans seem to think.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Cynthia

[Defeatist Elitist]

How do YOU know what America needs for health care? How do YOU know what Americans need? You live in Canada, you don't know how Americans live, as you don't LIVE in America. You can't go by what people say, you go by experience. Honestly, I fail to even see you able to make a valid argument about what AMERICA NEEDS.

I refuse to even accept your ideas on what America needs until you become an American citizen. Whether I agree with your views or not, you're not an American, so therefore you can't tell Americans what they need. Try reforming your OWN country, not ours.

Oh come on, living in America doesn't have too much do do with what I was saying. First of all, I didn't claim to understand America's needs for Health Care, I just explained an example I saw.

But honestly, we'll see what happens when the elections roll 'round. I believe in equality, semi-socialism, etc, all that "Liberal Bullshit". This is the main reason I support Obama, because I'd much rather have an intellectual in command of the massive adjacent nation then a maverick.

Oh, and lawl at saying that Obama should take lies like a man. Because everyone knows that lieing is a good trait for your leader.

[Cynthia]

Oh come on, living in America doesn't have too much do do with what I was saying. First of all, I didn't claim to understand America's needs for Health Care, I just explained an example I saw.

But honestly, we'll see what happens when the elections roll 'round. I believe in equality, semi-socialism, etc, all that "Liberal Bullshit". This is the main reason I support Obama, because I'd much rather have an intellectual in command of the massive adjacent nation then a maverick.

Oh, and lawl at saying that Obama should take lies like a man. Because everyone knows that lieing is a good trait for your leader.

You can't say it's a better health care plan though, because you don't use the current one. I'm saying you do not endure these "hardships," that Americans do. You can't help change something that you don't even experience, because you only know what needs changing from what you're told.

This is why only AMERICAN citizens can vote. Americans don't tell you how to run Canada, or who to elect.

Also I think it's COMPLETELY relevant. AMERICAN politics, I think is a subject, where being AMERICAN should be considered.

[canas is back]

Oh come on, living in America doesn't have too much do do with what I was saying. First of all, I didn't claim to understand America's needs for Health Care, I just explained an example I saw.

But honestly, we'll see what happens when the elections roll 'round. I believe in equality, semi-socialism, etc, all that "Liberal Bullshit". This is the main reason I support Obama, because I'd much rather have an intellectual in command of the massive adjacent nation then a maverick.

Oh, and lawl at saying that Obama should take lies like a man. Because everyone knows that lieing is a good trait for your leader.

it is because people don't want to have to pay for the leeches on society that it creates (I know these things, my grandmother works for medical)

[Doom103]

That is an opinion, and actually you're wrong, as there is a higher acceptance rate for homosexuals in England than here, and that would be the group I fall under, since I am undecided about my preference, but I'm leaning more towards a homosexual side.

Sure America SAYS they accept them, but how many people do? They can't even get married here.

There is a MUCH higher acceptance rate in England, than in America. I'm sorry, but America is one of the most self centered countries in the world, and that is a fact.

America uses over seventy percent of the oil used per YEAR. America use more than any country combined.

America has a United Nations policy where they are allowed to seize any country they believe is a threat to them, however other countries do not hold this right.

Those are just a few examples. You don't have to agree, but it's pretty obvious to me, that America IS self-centered.

If you don't like it leave, simple.

False China uses more oil, and America was based off the second greatest civilization ever Rome, don't like it leave

And I have never gone into the whole the whole Fact vs Opinion debate and by definition you have stated your opinion about America being self centered

I don't mind gays and the generations are getting better so again if you dont love this county then leave, every simple

[Cynthia]

If you don't like it leave, simple.

False China uses more oil, and America was based off the second greatest civilization ever Rome, don't like it leave

And I have never gone into the whole the whole Fact vs Opinion debate and by definition you have stated your opinion about America being self centered

I don't mind gays and the generations are getting better so again if you dont love this county then leave, every simple

Incorrect, AMERICA uses more oil. Look it up.

I also said I was planning to leave, so there was no need to say that. I'm not afraid to say it, "I hate this country, and I want to leave."

Lastly, if Rome was so great, then why did they fall apart? That's right, because they couldn't control their own empire, and lost half of it. Then the Roman empire became the "Holy Roman Empire," and converted to Catholicism and led their country into the "holy wars," killing thousands for their beliefs.

Yeah, Rome is amazing isn't it?

Also America was also based on Greece, and France, and England, as when creating the constitution, they asked to get books of all the laws of other countries, as they wanted to base their country on the laws of other limited governments.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Cynthia

[canas is back]

Incorrect, AMERICA uses more oil. Look it up.

I also said I was planning to leave, so there was no need to say that. I'm not afraid to say it, "I hate this country, and I want to leave."

Lastly, if Rome was so great, then why did they fall apart? That's right, because they couldn't control their own empire, and lost half of it. Then the Roman empire became the "Holy Roman Empire," and converted to Catholicism and led their country into the "holy wars," killing thousands for their beliefs.

Yeah, Rome is amazing isn't it?

thats why we are based off it's ideals

and the holy roman empire started later

[Cynthia]

thats why we are based off it's ideals

and the holy roman empire started later

Yes, we based off it's ideals in the sense of it's law system, but really the Holy Roman Empire is a sign of how their empire fell, and became tainted. If we were based off of that, we'd be doing the same thing in due time.

[Doom103]

Incorrect, AMERICA uses more oil. Look it up.

I also said I was planning to leave, so there was no need to say that. I'm not afraid to say it, "I hate this country, and I want to leave."

Lastly, if Rome was so great, then why did they fall apart? That's right, because they couldn't control their own empire, and lost half of it. Then the Roman empire became the "Holy Roman Empire," and converted to Catholicism and led their country into the "holy wars," killing thousands for their beliefs.

Yeah, Rome is amazing isn't it?

Also America was also based on Greece, and France, and England, as when creating the constitution, they asked to get books of all the laws of other countries, as they wanted to base their country on the laws of other limited governments.

Why not leave now? My Dad left colombia at age 13 and by himself made a new life here, he is president of an engineering firm

The reason why they fell is because they became christian, and al great powers, the bigger they are the harder they fall right

it is isn't it

Greece and Rome mostly

[canas is back]

The Holy Roman Empire (HRE; German: Heiliges Römisches Reich (HRR), Latin: Sacrum Romanum Imperium (SRI)) was a union of territories in Central Europe during the Middle Ages and the Early Modern period under a Holy Roman Emperor. The first Holy Roman Emperor was Otto the Great in 962. The last was Francis II, who abdicated and dissolved the Empire in 1806 during the Napoleonic Wars. It was officially known as the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (German: Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation, Latin: Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanicæ) from the 16th century onwards.

The Empire's territorial extent varied over its history, but at its peak it encompassed the Kingdom of Germany, the Kingdom of Italy and the Kingdom of Burgundy, territories embracing the present-day Germany, Austria (except Burgenland), Switzerland, the Netherlands, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Belgium, as well as significant parts of modern France (mainly Artois, Alsace and Lorraine), Italy (mainly Lombardy, Piedmont, Emilia-Romagna, and Tuscany), and Poland (mainly Silesia and Pomerania). For much of its history the Empire consisted of hundreds of smaller sub-units, principalities, duchies, counties, Free Imperial Cities, as well as other domains. Despite its name, the Empire did not include Rome within its borders.

the holy roman empire is not connected with the roman empire, RESEARCH

[Doom103]

the holy roman empire is not connected with the roman empire, RESEARCH

THIS!!!

[Cynthia]

Why not leave now? My Dad left colombia at age 13 and by himself made a new life here, he is president of an engineering firm

The reason why they fell is because they became christian, and al great powers, the bigger they are the harder they fall right

it is isn't it

Greece and Rome mostly

I think you really should look this up, because it wasn't because they became Christian, that's just discriminatory. It was because they forced everyone to follow one religion, which is completely different. They took away people's right to freedom of religion. America is certainly NOT based on that. America was based on the Roman justice system. It was not based on Rome itself, with possibly the exception of architecture, but even then we have our own style.

Also, those other countries had just as big an influence as Rome did. The idea of a limited government came from England, as they were the first to have a limited government. Also, YES France, because they had VERY similar laws to England, not to mention they had their own revolution after ours to get a limited government. America looked to see what worked.

Also, I can't just LEAVE a country as a minor first of all, as I'm not going to throw away my education, and sneak into another country. I plan on doing it the legal and smart way. Saving money, having a good education under my belt, and going through customs, as my parents don't simply move to another country to please me, nor do I ask that of them.

By the way, that just says it didn't include Rome in it's borders, it's referring to the CITY of Rome. The empire was the remains of what used to be the Roman empire, the part with Rome became the Byzantine Empire.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Cynthia

[Phoenix Wright]

Hm, this has nothing to do with Obama. In the old times, everyone knows the Roman Empire fell apart because its people fell apart. Gladiators, corrupt, sluts, whores, everything. AMERICA isn't like that, trust me it isn't and if you don't believe that then GTFO, and if you haven't been to America yet then GTFIn. This place is a lot better than most countries, just that the people in control are ASSHOLES. Sorta like the people at school Cynthia, and any others with a bad school.

[Doom103]

I think you really should look this up, because it wasn't because they became Christian, that's just discriminatory. It was because they forced everyone to follow one religion, which is completely different. They took away people's right to freedom of religion. America is certainly NOT based on that. America was based on the Roman justice system. It was not based on Rome itself, with possibly the exception of architecture, but even then we have our own style.

Also, those other countries had just as big an influence as Rome did. The idea of a limited government came from England, as they were the first to have a limited government. Also, YES France, because they had VERY similar laws to England, not to mention they had their own revolution after ours to get a limited government. America looked to see what worked.

Also, I can't just LEAVE a country as a minor first of all, as I'm not going to throw away my education, and sneak into another country. I plan on doing it the legal and smart way. Saving money, having a good education under my belt, and going through customs, as my parents don't simply move to another country to please me, nor do I ask that of them.

Cynthia btw, no hard fellings this is a debate

I admire you doing the legal and smart way, but my father did it the legal and smart way too and he is very sucesfull

Now the rome thing

Becoming Cristian made their army weaker and that was the roman empire, with a weak army their economy dropped like a rock

Christianity highered their values making them less prone to train and kill, I've read books upon books upon books of Rome, because Rome is that epic

[Cynthia]

Cynthia btw, no hard fellings this is a debate

I admire you doing the legal and smart way, but my father did it the legal and smart way too and he is very sucesfull

Now the rome thing

Becoming Cristian made their army weaker and that was the roman empire, with a weak army their economy dropped like a rock

Christianity highered their values making them less prone to train and kill, I've read books upon books upon books of Rome, because Rome is that epic

Rome was very influential on all things, that much is true.

Also there are legal methods I have to go through, not to mention a person I would like to convince to come with me after she graduates.

And of course no hard feelings. Like I said, I hold no grudges, it just wastes both of our time.

[Doom103]

Rome was very influential on all things, that much is true.

Also there are legal methods I have to go through, not to mention a person I would like to convince to come with me after she graduates.

And of course no hard feelings. Like I said, I hold no grudges, it just wastes both of our time.

Cool, a best friend I assume

lol yea, btw I really like you, well the fact that your smart and hold your own in conversations lol my gf is giving me a hard look XD

Stop by the chat sometime

[sandmanccl]

Oh come on, living in America doesn't have too much do do with what I was saying. First of all, I didn't claim to understand America's needs for Health Care, I just explained an example I saw.

But honestly, we'll see what happens when the elections roll 'round. I believe in equality, semi-socialism, etc, all that "Liberal Bullshit". This is the main reason I support Obama, because I'd much rather have an intellectual in command of the massive adjacent nation then a maverick.

Oh, and lawl at saying that Obama should take lies like a man. Because everyone knows that lieing is a good trait for your leader.

That implies that McCain isn't intellectual, which is a pretty silly thing to say. I'd rather have someone in the White House that fights partisanship than someone who was ONLY propelled to the forefront of their party because the party leaders know he'll just push their agendas without regard to trying to make America a better place.

In regards to Rome, the Roman empire fell because they over-expanded and lacked communication between the vast expanses of it's own reach. It was a poor military decision and nothing else. Take a college world history class from an accredited professor before spouting nonsense, please.

[Rehab]

Debate sucked terribly.

[Doom103]

Debate sucked terribly.

This 110%

Wb btw, haven't seen you Mac

[Mufasa]

I don't think the leader of a country should be someone who is afraid to fight. Even if the alternate is a war hungry mongrel. If the latter is the case, then we can simply stop him. (Which is the congress's job. DUH.) Plus, with the Congress being mostly democratic, and then the president being a democrat, then most of the republican ideas will be completely shot down. There needs to be a sort of balance between the two. (Which leads back to the main theme of RD.)

Which is another reason I'm voting for McCain.

[Meteor]

It's really too bad we can't combine the best qualities of the two candidates. My biggest gripe with McCain is actually Palin. Ugh.