Standards/Rules for a "fair" playthrough

[claire]

I just use the cool characters

[Natsu_T]

I agree with using Invasions in Conquest, as the other person said. Can we acknowledge for a second just how brutally difficult invasion 2 is in Conquest? I simply CANNOT beat it until I play several chapters later, the scaling is absurd. It shows up around chapter 18 and I just don't see how you can beat it at that point. That first archer comes in dealing like 50+ damage times 2 while most of your units have no more than 25 defense. And that's not even getting into the guy with entrap that actually rushes towards you :(.

I forgot to mention Keaton, but this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. What exactly were the developers thinking when designing his skill? For me, personally, that is an extremely useful skill because it gives easier access to other ore besides just randomly finding them in your castle. But if you visit other castles then his skill is entirely worthless. So it's like, where is the designer's intent here? A lot of things like this make me feel like they didn't try to actually balance the game around anything in particular, and just threw stuff in, did a few random playtests and hoped everything worked out. It also seems like they didn't expect anyone to do iron-man runs at times, because Conquest is literally unbeatable if you lose 2+ royals. Some maps just require you to keep hitting those dragon veins without missing a beat.

Also, I should clarify that it doesn't specifically bother me that other people play the game differently. I would just prefer more structure to the ways one can approach the game. For instance, I would love it if FE Fates had a mode like the following:

- Skips all story elements and dialogue automatically so you don't have to keep pressing start. MyCastle stays for preparations.

- Disables a certain amount of things like offline options and path bonuses, or otherwise gives you specific bonuses to this mode's options.

- Automatically erases the file if the game is turned off during a chapter.

It's not that I want everyone to play like that, I just want there to be a definitive mode that can be relayed to others to foster a community around. I really don't like community-driven drafts and specifics, which is sometimes why I dislike speedrun/challenge communities, to the person who suggested that. I would prefer if the community's discrepancies would be highlighted by a single game mode's name, rather than a series of asterisks. I know I mentioned things like core vs. hardcore in shooters like Battlefield and CoD, but I can accept that much more easily as it is a streamlined preset that you can just name off rather than *explain.*

Ultimately, I probably wouldn't even be having an issue of solidarity if FE was on a console and you could play online with friends in a co-op campaign or something.

[joshcja]

I agree with using Invasions in Conquest, as the other person said. Can we acknowledge for a second just how brutally difficult invasion 2 is in Conquest? I simply CANNOT beat it until I play several chapters later, the scaling is absurd. It shows up around chapter 18 and I just don't see how you can beat it at that point. That first archer comes in dealing like 50+ damage times 2 while most of your units have no more than 25 defense. And that's not even getting into the guy with entrap that actually rushes towards you :(.

I forgot to mention Keaton, but this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. What exactly were the developers thinking when designing his skill? For me, personally, that is an extremely useful skill because it gives easier access to other ore besides just randomly finding them in your castle. But if you visit other castles then his skill is entirely worthless. So it's like, where is the designer's intent here? A lot of things like this make me feel like they didn't try to actually balance the game around anything in particular, and just threw stuff in, did a few random playtests and hoped everything worked out. It also seems like they didn't expect anyone to do iron-man runs at times, because Conquest is literally unbeatable if you lose 2+ royals. Some maps just require you to keep hitting those dragon veins without missing a beat.

Also, I should clarify that it doesn't specifically bother me that other people play the game differently. I would just prefer more structure to the ways one can approach the game. For instance, I would love it if FE Fates had a mode like the following:

- Skips all story elements and dialogue automatically so you don't have to keep pressing start. MyCastle stays for preparations.

- Disables a certain amount of things like offline options and path bonuses, or otherwise gives you specific bonuses to this mode's options.

- Automatically erases the file if the game is turned off during a chapter.

It's not that I want everyone to play like that, I just want there to be a definitive mode that can be relayed to others to foster a community around. I really don't like community-driven drafts and specifics, which is sometimes why I dislike speedrun/challenge communities, to the person who suggested that. I would prefer if the community's discrepancies would be highlighted by a single game mode's name, rather than a series of asterisks. I know I mentioned things like core vs. hardcore in shooters like Battlefield and CoD, but I can accept that much more easily as it is a streamlined preset that you can just name off rather than *explain.*

Ultimately, I probably wouldn't even be having an issue of solidarity if FE was on a console and you could play online with friends in a co-op campaign or something.

Conquest invasion 2: Put a paired up nostank on the throne. Hit end 10 times, walk to the throne after entrap goes off (it's the last action on the preset chain and it will attack instead of entrapping if you're in range) hit end 2 more times.

If you want to high man the "chapter" it can be pretty brutal, ngl. Invasion3 is the only one immune to cheese though.

Edited March 24, 2016 by joshcja

[Emblem Blade]

'Fair' changes by the person describing it. For me at the least the following would apply for most of the time.

Using My Castle (this only applies to other players' My Castles):

*Skills/Unit Recruitment: I would do this regardless and not skip it on Conquest where you ability to level up units is very limited and enemies can easily wreck teams with ease if you didn't level everyone evenly. Birthright? Lunatic Mode only. Revelations? Only for getting the likes of Scarlet and Izana who you don't really get.

*Minerals/Food Resources: Minerals I can skip thanks to Smithing. Food on the other hand I will do when it comes to getting Lilith to max her stats out.

*Stores: Conquest only here, you want some weapons that have a normal weapon effect when you know that upcoming chapter will make you suffer.

Grinding: You can't grind effectively in Conquest and you don't really need to grind at all in Birthright. Revelations: Well, if you chose Hard or Lunatic on Classic and you notice the level scaling on enemies and your recruited allies, grinding might be one of your safest options for survival.

DLC: Varies by how much of a 'perfectionist' you are. Sometimes one gets bored of the story (especially after beating each path multiple times) and wants to side-track somewhere else.

[JulioRicardo]

I played through birthright using very little of the bonus stuff. I only used the stat boosters and boots.

Conquest though, that was a different story. Used both dread scrolls on MU and Silas. Used the Exalt Seal on Azura. I grinded a little on the DLC maps and also used the gold one.

For me, it's not about making it as difficult as possible or as "pure". That stuff is in the game because I believe IS wanted us to use it if we want to. It makes the game entertaining, and that's ultimately what matters.

[Aggro Incarnate]

I agree with using Invasions in Conquest, as the other person said. Can we acknowledge for a second just how brutally difficult invasion 2 is in Conquest? I simply CANNOT beat it until I play several chapters later, the scaling is absurd. It shows up around chapter 18 and I just don't see how you can beat it at that point. That first archer comes in dealing like 50+ damage times 2 while most of your units have no more than 25 defense. And that's not even getting into the guy with entrap that actually rushes towards you :(.

If you want to high-man Invasion 2, trying to beat it within 4 turns kinda helps because otherwise reinforcements start popping up. The sides can be taken care of relatively quickly; you'd be able to kill two enemies on each side within one turn if you use your units well, and as long as there is a destructible building or two on each side they'll waste a turn My strat for it was to kill as many merchants in the first turn with tanks that can survive the villagers, daggers and Enfeeble so that you don't get Spendthrift-ed to death. Using the mess hall, STR/DEF/SPD tonics as necessary helps as well if your team doesn't have enough power or durability, though it's up to you to decide how much gold you want to spam on them.

On top of that, you might want to experiment with different castle styles and edifice positioning, since the enemy deployment number, stats and positioning are made intentionally quite difficult in response to the player being able to make use of My Castle related mechanics. The Lottery Shop, Arena and the Smithy are indestructible, so use them if you want to block enemy trespassing through a certain region. Statues and buildings can distract enemies as they try to take hold of your seize point. Units are deployed in front of a building, so where you place them have direct bearings on the initial starting position of your units. Different castle styles come with different possibilities of choking and so on. Also make use of Dusk Dragon and the Golems if you can afford them, and they'll chip away enemy HP every turn.

That said, as joshcja said earlier, throne nostanking works quite well for Invasion 2, but only if you have a viable nostank with enough MAG and DEF at that point, particularly when considering that at some difficulties some of the enemies have Lunge. It's not something everyone playing the game might have at that point in the game though...

Edited March 24, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[Natsu_T]

Well I heard that you get more bonus DV for each building you keep alive, so I feel like using a single unit to win the chapter on the throne is pointless because you aren't getting good exp or DV from it. Will that archer and maids prioritize buildings they can hit over units that are right in their face hitting them? If rushing them is viable, I may need to change my layout to put as many buildings near the south as possible. Previously I was Chevois walling and keeping all the buildings inside the walls, with fire orb and golem shooting over the top.

[eclipse]

Also, I should clarify that it doesn't specifically bother me that other people play the game differently. I would just prefer more structure to the ways one can approach the game. For instance, I would love it if FE Fates had a mode like the following:

- Skips all story elements and dialogue automatically so you don't have to keep pressing start. MyCastle stays for preparations.

- Disables a certain amount of things like offline options and path bonuses, or otherwise gives you specific bonuses to this mode's options.

- Automatically erases the file if the game is turned off during a chapter.

It's not that I want everyone to play like that, I just want there to be a definitive mode that can be relayed to others to foster a community around. I really don't like community-driven drafts and specifics, which is sometimes why I dislike speedrun/challenge communities, to the person who suggested that. I would prefer if the community's discrepancies would be highlighted by a single game mode's name, rather than a series of asterisks. I know I mentioned things like core vs. hardcore in shooters like Battlefield and CoD, but I can accept that much more easily as it is a streamlined preset that you can just name off rather than *explain.*

Ultimately, I probably wouldn't even be having an issue of solidarity if FE was on a console and you could play online with friends in a co-op campaign or something.

There's two huge issues with this:

1. FE is a single-player game at its heart. If you want a multi-player version, go to FEPlanet, and sign up there. I believe The Banner Saga is multi-player (but I'm not certain, since I'm not here to challenge other people, just help 'em out). There should be others out there that aren't Fire Emblem, but have a similar feel.

2. If you really want a "structured" single-player experience, check out the Fire Emblem Drafts subforum. There's a bunch of rules meant to make the game as fair as possible.

FE isn't meant to cater to everyone's individual needs, or we'd have Battle Saves on Classic. Work with what you've got!