Revelations has Serious Pacing Issues (Spoilers)

[Rezzy]

I've loved Fates so far, and for all their flaws, I enjoyed Conquests and Birthright overall. Revelations starting well enough, and the story was progressing at a decent pace, but ever since actually bringing my army to Valla, the narrative has just hit a brick wall.

I'm now at Chapter 23, and nothing has happened since I got here. Basically what's happened has...

A: I met and got betrayed by some little fart named Anthony.

B: I met Azura's mom, or at least some shell of her.

That's pretty much it. Scarlet died at the beginning of course, but very little has happened to actually advance the narrative, I may as well be playing trial maps, for all the story each map advances. A few additional cut scenes showing my enemies plotting, or showing what the heck Garon's been up to would have been nice. I really want to like this game, but I feel myself not really compelled to play each chapter to see what happens next, and that never happens with Fire Emblem. Revelations started relatively strong, but so far, the late-mid game is making it the worst of the 3 paths, when this is supposed to be the definitive path.

[saisymbolic]

I've loved Fates so far, and for all their flaws, I enjoyed Conquests and Birthright overall. Revelations starting well enough, and the story was progressing at a decent pace, but ever since actually bringing my army to Valla, the narrative has just hit a brick wall.

I'm now at Chapter 23, and nothing has happened since I got here. Basically what's happened has...

A: I met and got betrayed by some little fart named Anthony.

B: I met Azura's mom, or at least some shell of her.

That's pretty much it. Scarlet died at the beginning of course, but very little has happened to actually advance the narrative, I may as well be playing trial maps, for all the story each map advances. A few additional cut scenes showing my enemies plotting, or showing what the heck Garon's been up to would have been nice. I really want to like this game, but I feel myself not really compelled to play each chapter to see what happens next, and that never happens with Fire Emblem. Revelations started relatively strong, but so far, the late-mid game is making it the worst of the 3 paths, when this is supposed to be the definitive path.

Yeah, after the recruitment of all the royal siblings, the story gradually ran out of gas. For me, at least.

[Thane]

Revelation seems to have had no idea what it wanted to do other than "get all the units to make sure people don't feel bad about having to make a choice" and "oh yeah, solve all the remaining plot holes".

To be fair though, it's not like Birthright or Conquest are that much better. Birthright spends five chapters searching for your brothers and then you go on a magical adventure to assassinate a king, and in Conquest you run around on errands until you're told to invade a country and your siblings are lined up as bowling pins.

[PizzaRice]

Well seeing as how you have all 4 of the nohr royals with you and yukimura can join you (after upgrading a puppet to lvl 3(i think chapter 22)) i just assumed Anankos ditched Garons body to fight you back in Valla

[Radiant Dragon]

Well seeing as how you have all 4 of the nohr royals with you and yukimura can join you (after upgrading a puppet to lvl 3(i think chapter 22)) i just assumed Anankos ditched Garons body to fight you back in Valla

Yukimura unfortunately does not join you in Revelations. Him and Scarlet are two of my favorite characters...

[Abvora]

I unfortunately agree with this. I loved the first 17~ chapters, being an exile on the run trying to gather allies even though nobody believes you. Then it all goes to hell as soon as you set foot in Valla. Bunch of chapters of effectively "go here, do the goal, repeat", then they throw a bunch of fast-paced emotions and revelations at the end without giving you time to properly process them.

They should have spread them out, or at least used the filler chapters to do worldbuilding on Anankos and Valla.

[Tolvir]

Agree with everything said here. Revelations started off so strong. I thought that maybe the other two versions lacked a well put together story because the focus was all on Revelation. And then past Chapter 18 when Scarlet dies it fell apart. There are some points that would of been really cool if it was put together better. What should of happened is both families should of had a large reveal each that really give them motivations for being there outside of just trusting Corrin's word. Ryoma's family and Sumeragi, and Xander's family and something to do with the real Garon and the possessed Garon. But oh well, once again a missed opportunity.

[PizzaRice]

Yukimura unfortunately does not join you in Revelations. Him and Scarlet are two of my favorite characters...

He doesnt? then i guess the people ive seen with both him and Fuga in their castles are hacking. I didnt care much for him so i nvr bothered checking with revelations.

Edited April 14, 2016 by PizzaRice

[Time the Crestfallen]

The pacing issues started right away for me. On Conquest and Birthright, you spend the first 5-7 chapters doing nothing of any real importance and in Revelation, Azura immediately takes you to Valla and dumps all the exposition onto you right after Chapter 6. It feels like they should've built up to the reveal or weaved some of the exposition into the narrative better, but instead I'm left wondering why Azura didn't immediately try to-

http://fireemblemfates.nintendo.com/dlc/

Oh. Right.

[Rezzy]

Agree with everything said here. Revelations started off so strong. I thought that maybe the other two versions lacked a well put together story because the focus was all on Revelation. And then past Chapter 18 when Scarlet dies it fell apart. There are some points that would of been really cool if it was put together better. What should of happened is both families should of had a large reveal each that really give them motivations for being there outside of just trusting Corrin's word. Ryoma's family and Sumeragi, and Xander's family and something to do with the real Garon and the possessed Garon. But oh well, once again a missed opportunity.

Fates is pretty much Missed Opportunity: The Game. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it could have been so much better and the story brings down the fantastic gameplay. If I went by gameplay alone, I'd say Fates is my favorite FE game.

I unfortunately agree with this. I loved the first 17~ chapters, being an exile on the run trying to gather allies even though nobody believes you. Then it all goes to hell as soon as you set foot in Valla. Bunch of chapters of effectively "go here, do the goal, repeat", then they throw a bunch of fast-paced emotions and revelations at the end without giving you time to properly process them.

They should have spread them out, or at least used the filler chapters to do worldbuilding on Anankos and Valla.

Some world building is definitely needed in Fates. I don't get the sense that Valla is some great Kingdom, it seems like an empty field from James Cameron's Avatar movie with a Castle in it.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Rezzy

[Tolvir]

Fates is pretty much Missed Opportunity: The Game. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it could have been so much better and the story brings down the fantastic gameplay. If I went by gameplay alone, I'd say Fates is my favorite FE game.

Some world building is definitely needed in Fates. I don't get the sense that Valla is some great Kingdom, it seems like an empty field from James Cameron's Avatar movie with a Castle in it.

Like I have said before in other threads, I think the game was rushed. It would explain the incomplete feel to the game's story since there is no world building, and no backstory to pretty much anything. I believe that if they took an extra 6 months - a year to flesh out the story and the script, the problems the game has wouldnt be there.

[NeonZ]

They really shouldn't have spent so much time in Valla if they couldn't really introduce new characters in Revelation. They likely wanted to get rid of the previous antagonists as quickly as possible, but they didn't really have enough content to replace them.

Like I have said before in other threads, I think the game was rushed. It would explain the incomplete feel to the game's story since there is no world building, and no backstory to pretty much anything. I believe that if they took an extra 6 months - a year to flesh out the story and the script, the problems the game has wouldnt be there.

I think the story progression in Conquest and Birthright are pretty standard considering the writer. Shin Kibayashi's most famous manga series, Kindaichi Case Files, mostly relies on characters and places being introduced for each specific case rather than long set ups and build up.

New locations that are mostly introduced as you arrive in them, with only a couple of ones that are mentioned or shown in advance is pretty standard for shounen manga world building in general - look at something like One Piece.

[Tolvir]

They really shouldn't have spent so much time in Valla if they couldn't really introduce new characters in Revelation. They likely wanted to get rid of the previous antagonists as quickly as possible, but they didn't really have enough content to replace them.

I think the story progression in Conquest and Birthright are pretty standard considering the writer. Shin Kibayashi's most famous manga series, Kindaichi Case Files, mostly relies on characters and places being introduced for each specific case rather than long set ups and build up.

New locations that are mostly introduced as you arrive in them, with only a couple of ones that are mentioned or shown in advance is pretty standard for shounen manga world building in general - look at something like One Piece.

That is true as well. I knew that the writer they got was a Manga writer, but didnt know he was a Shounen manga writer, which explains a lot. Especially Corrin being a bit too much of a special snowflake with all the praise. Most Shounen center around that one protaganist that just happens to be special somehow, and everyone praises how great they are.

Wow, once you look at it like a Shounen it starts really explaining itself. Lets hope 15 doesnt involve Kibayashi, nothing against him but I would rather not see Fire emblem turn into another shounen with a different paint job.

[Book Bro]

The pacing issues started right away for me. On Conquest and Birthright, you spend the first 5-7 chapters doing nothing of any real importance and in Revelation, Azura immediately takes you to Valla and dumps all the exposition onto you right after Chapter 6. It feels like they should've built up to the reveal or weaved some of the exposition into the narrative better, but instead I'm left wondering why Azura didn't immediately try to-

http://fireemblemfates.nintendo.com/dlc/

Oh. Right.

I have to agree with this post. The first half was too rushed, and the second half so far has been too slow (also on chapter 23). It doesn't help that Valla is totally uninteresting.

[Fircoal]

IT's not just Revalations. The pacing of all the fates games are poor.

[Rezzy]

I have to agree with this post. The first half was too rushed, and the second half so far has been too slow (also on chapter 23). It doesn't help that Valla is totally uninteresting.

I think this is where world building comes into play. Instead of the 6-7 filler chapters we have in Valla, maybe we could have spent more time going to the neutral nations (they exist) of whatever this continent is called and building up a coalition. We could have Izana join us in Revelations, where it actually makes sense, instead of dying 5 minutes after we meet him, which is just stupid. He really has no reason to join you in Birthright, or especially Conquests. He's supposed to be the leader of a neutral nation, and he seemingly comes without his army and is just hanging out, since we have a nice hot tub.

We could have the Wind Tribe join us, and maybe even the Fire Tribe. (Is the Fire Tribe part of Hoshido or independent like the Wind Tribe? They do a terrible job of explaining the politics of this place.)

And the whole Fight Club Curse is pretty contrived. If we can't name Valla by name, can't we at least just call it something else, so we don't sound stupid when trying to convince people? Just say, "It's actually the evil King Bob in Bobland we need to be fighting!" Then when the army gets to Valla, just explain the curse and that this place is actually called Valla.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think this is where world building comes into play. Instead of the 6-7 filler chapters we have in Valla, maybe we could have spent more time going to the neutral nations (they exist) of whatever this continent is called and building up a coalition. We could have Izana join us in Revelations, where it actually makes sense, instead of dying 5 minutes after we meet him, which is just stupid. He really has no reason to join you in Birthright, or especially Conquests. He's supposed to be the leader of a neutral nation, and he seemingly comes without his army and is just hanging out, since we have a nice hot tub.

We could have the Wind Tribe join us, and maybe even the Fire Tribe. (Is the Fire Tribe part of Hoshido or independent like the Wind Tribe? They do a terrible job of explaining the politics of this place.)

And the whole Fight Club Curse is pretty contrived. If we can't name Valla by name, can't we at least just call it something else, so we don't sound stupid when trying to convince people? Just say, "It's actually the evil King Bob in Bobland we need to be fighting!" Then when the army gets to Valla, just explain the curse and that this place is actually called Valla.

I always thought that the curse would work better sort of like the Taboo Curse from Harry Potter in that if you mention anything about Valla, it lets Anankos know where you are and maybe open up a portal right next to you, so rather than having 'we can't talk about Valla or else we'll dissolve', it'd be more 'we can't talk about Valla or else Anankos will know where we are and without the Fire Emblem, he'll kick our nuts out through our noses in a fight'.

[Tolvir]

I always thought that the curse would work better sort of like the Taboo Curse from Harry Potter in that if you mention anything about Valla, it lets Anankos know where you are and maybe open up a portal right next to you, so rather than having 'we can't talk about Valla or else we'll dissolve', it'd be more 'we can't talk about Valla or else Anankos will know where we are and without the Fire Emblem, he'll kick our nuts out through our noses in a fight'.

That would work a lot better as it would also establish a bit of a sense of urgency or fear due to the fact that you arent just dealing with your typical tyranical king, you are dealing with a deity gone mad.

[Rezzy]

I always thought that the curse would work better sort of like the Taboo Curse from Harry Potter in that if you mention anything about Valla, it lets Anankos know where you are and maybe open up a portal right next to you, so rather than having 'we can't talk about Valla or else we'll dissolve', it'd be more 'we can't talk about Valla or else Anankos will know where we are and without the Fire Emblem, he'll kick our nuts out through our noses in a fight'.

That would work a lot better as it would also establish a bit of a sense of urgency or fear due to the fact that you arent just dealing with your typical tyranical king, you are dealing with a deity gone mad.

That would have been much preferable to what we got. Or they could have just given Valla a different name to refer to it outside of Valla.

I have to agree with this post. The first half was too rushed, and the second half so far has been too slow (also on chapter 23). It doesn't help that Valla is totally uninteresting.

I actually remember thinking to myself that it seemed like a lot was happening in early Revelations and wishing they had made the Rev route longer than Birthright and Conquests, since it was the "official" route, now I wish we had just spent more time before coming to Valla, the land of nothing.

[Avalanche]

Fates is pretty much Missed Opportunity: The Game. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it could have been so much better and the story brings down the fantastic gameplay. If I went by gameplay alone, I'd say Fates is my favorite FE game.

Some world building is definitely needed in Fates. I don't get the sense that Valla is some great Kingdom, it seems like an empty field from James Cameron's Avatar movie with a Castle in it.

I think this opinion is pretty true of a lot of people here. Fates is probably (I'm a sucker for Radiant Dawn's structure, sue me) my favorite game in the series from a pure gameplay perspective, but it feels like we got the first draft of each of the stories. I think Valla's existence is probably the biggest example, because the curse as a plot point is so lame it's almost funny. This could be an awful idea, but I do wonder how each story would have panned out if a different writer wrote each one and went to Kibayashi for general continuity? Yes, it would have costed IS more cash, but I do wonder how it would have played out by having one person refine their route instead of Kibayashi having to power through all 3.

[Rezzy]

I think this opinion is pretty true of a lot of people here. Fates is probably (I'm a sucker for Radiant Dawn's structure, sue me) my favorite game in the series from a pure gameplay perspective, but it feels like we got the first draft of each of the stories. I think Valla's existence is probably the biggest example, because the curse as a plot point is so lame it's almost funny. This could be an awful idea, but I do wonder how each story would have panned out if a different writer wrote each one and went to Kibayashi for general continuity? Yes, it would have costed IS more cash, but I do wonder how it would have played out by having one person refine their route instead of Kibayashi having to power through all 3.

Knowing it was written by Manga/Anime writers explained a lot. For lack of a better word, maybe of the filler chapters feel episodic. There's the overarcing story, but the stuff that happens in the chapters has no real affect outside of their own chapter. Oh, we just killed a bunch of Kitsune? Oh well. Oh, we just met the Wind Tribe? Oh well. It just seems so different from past Fire Emblem games, where it seemed like every chapter advances the story and built upon the last one. Where in Fates, you could probably skip 4 or 5 chapters, and not miss out on anything. On Chapter 24 of Revelation, a single sentence can explain everything you need to know since we got here: we met Azura's mom and killed her and Scarlet, too. You don't need to know about Anthony. He's a throw away character who wasted more than 10% of the chapters in this game.

I wouldn't have minded Anthony if other stuff actually happened in the chapters, that featured him, but no his stuff is the only thing that happens in those chapters.

Chapter 1: Meet him

Chapter 2: He tried to kill us and big bro combo gets suspicious of him

Chapter 3: We kill him

At least the Zola betrayal arc had other stuff going on and he fit into the surrounding story. When Birthright/Conquests has better story presentation than you, it's a problem.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Rezzy

[Jakkun]

Knowing it was written by Manga/Anime writers explained a lot. For lack of a better word, maybe of the filler chapters feel episodic. There's the overarcing story, but the stuff that happens in the chapters has no real affect outside of their own chapter. Oh, we just killed a bunch of Kitsune? Oh well. Oh, we just met the Wind Tribe? Oh well. It just seems so different from past Fire Emblem games, where it seemed like every chapter advances the story and built upon the last one. Where in Fates, you could probably skip 4 or 5 chapters, and not miss out on anything. On Chapter 24 of Revelation, a single sentence can explain everything you need to know since we got here: we met Azura's mom and killed her and Scarlet, too. You don't need to know about Anthony. He's a throw away character who wasted more than 10% of the chapters in this game.

I wouldn't have minded Anthony if other stuff actually happened in the chapters, that featured him, but no his stuff is the only thing that happens in those chapters.

Chapter 1: Meet him

Chapter 2: He tried to kill us and big bro combo gets suspicious of him

Chapter 3: We kill him

At least the Zola betrayal arc had other stuff going on and he fit into the surrounding story. When Birthright/Conquests has better story presentation than you, it's a problem.

Rontau was a little shit and I hate the fact that he was written like that tbh. It wouldve made more sense if he was say, a Villager who's parents were killed by Anankos, and was ordered by Anankos to decieve the Avatar, against his will. It wouldve been interesting for him to not actually want to fight because he's fearful of his life, but gives in to betray the avatar. However what we get after his betrayal is a kid who looks like he's just doing this for the Evulz. Now I will say after his transformation, it is made apparent that Anankos set him up to do this, but this feels more in line with something like Iago's asskissing than anything.

in short: I wish there was a reason to like the kid, instead of him just being a textbook example of "you cant trust everyone, Corn."

[Thane]

Rontau was a little shit and I hate the fact that he was written like that tbh. It wouldve made more sense if he was say, a Villager who's parents were killed by Anankos, and was ordered by Anankos to decieve the Avatar, against his will. It wouldve been interesting for him to not actually want to fight because he's fearful of his life, but gives in to betray the avatar. However what we get after his betrayal is a kid who looks like he's just doing this for the Evulz. Now I will say after his transformation, it is made apparent that Anankos set him up to do this, but this feels more in line with something like Iago's asskissing than anything.

in short: I wish there was a reason to like the kid, instead of him just being a textbook example of "you cant trust everyone, Corn."

Doesn't Ryouma and Xander excuse Corrin's behavior in the end anyway? I couldn't believe what I was seeing when that little brat showed up - oh hey, an obvious trap, let's follow it! Screw exploring the mystical kingdom on our own, we have our own personal, obviously evil guide here!

It's almost like Gunter all over again; "gee, I wonder who's the traitor. Maybe, just maybe, it's the guy who for some reason can't support in this route and suddenly got a lot more lines after this little subplot became important."

[saisymbolic]

Ack! Someone mentioned Zola! My heart!

But, yeah, it is pretty bad that a character that was supposed to be a minor character ended up having the most characterization.

[Thane]

Ack! Someone mentioned Zola! My heart!

But, yeah, it is pretty bad that a character that was supposed to be a minor character ended up having the most characterization.

Zola truly is the unsung hero of this game; he's one of the smartest and most efficient characters in it. Too bad0 his very presence seems to have absorbed Leo's pragmatism in Conquest and amplified Xander's hypocrisy, as well as made the latter lose his memory since he can't even remember his original plan.