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Knife
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What does pineappled mean?

Q. What does pineappled mean?

A. What Horace said.

What stages do you prefer to play on?

Q. What stages do you prefer to play on?

A. I generally like:

-Town & City (good neutral, more than Smashville IMO. Great for Greninja because he can manuever well.)

-Final Destination (good old stage that I'm really familiar with, makes shuriken camping with Greninja easier.)

I dislike:

-Battlefield (people live too long, Greninja's usmash doesn't connect on platforms)

-Duck Hunt (this is actually a good Greninja stage because of circle camp potential, I just personally dislike how the duck and dog interrupt attacks)

What technique would you like to be able to do IRL?

Q. What technique would you like to be able to do IRL?

A. Rolling. Definitely rolling. More specifically Smash 4 rolling with lots of invincibility frames and low endlag.

-Need to get through a crowd of people? Just roll through them!

-Hostile individual starts fighting you? Keep rolling back and forth until he gets tired/dizzy!

-Girlfriend says "we need to talk"? Roll away!

What are your favorite matchups to play?

Q. What are your favorite matchups to play?

A. I love Greninja vs. Luigi since he literally can't do anything about spaced fairs and it pushes him away. Greninja vs. Falcon for the high combo/edgeuard potential plus Falcon players are usually fun to play especially the ones that rely on hard reads (I never get mad when a Falcon spikes me). I kinda enjoy Link vs. Toon Link, feels like I'm beating my younger self. I love playing against Pacman with anyone, just really fun to see them with their traps and get through (plus I can shield shamelessly when I'm feeling threatened). Greninja vs Mewtwo is fun too, fast characters that are both Pokemon, fighting for viability. I could go on, but here's a general tier list based on who I enjoy/dislike fighting (with any character):

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EDIT: Zera, I'll get to your last question later. MU stuff takes a while to write and I don't like half-assing answers.

Edited by Knife
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Since you're using Greninja, can you say anything about the Greninja vs Dedede MU?

Q. Greninja vs. Dedede?

A. I'll write this from a Dedede perspective, since I'm guessing that's what you want.

Neutral: Greninja is really fast and it can be tough to catch him, especially campy ones. Dedede will pretty much have to approach most of the time, which can be tough with Greninja shuriken and Fairing you. Learn to powershield his stuff as best you can to get in close, though you will probably still eat hits. Dedede is just the kinda character with very little dodging ability but the ability to live absurdly long to kinda make up for it. At a certain point, Greninja will try to kill you (unless they camp a percent lead and go for timeout in which case GGs). You can start to get a lot of hits in neutral when Greninja approaches for the kill. Bair is a decent approach tool when spaced. Dedede's ledge pressure is actually really good, use a combination of grabs, Gordos, and attack to keep Greninja offstage.

Killing: Powershield Dsmash is a really good kill option. You can try for a Fsmash to ledgetrap kill, but you will almost always eat a punish it you miss. Usmash and uair are good anti airs if the Greninja likes to jump above you.

Offstage: You can toss Gordos offstage and they work pretty well since Hydropump has no hitbox. Dair can be good if the Greninja is being really predictable, but inconsistent. Otherwise I think Dedede is better of ledgetrapping and not giving up stage control.

Disadvantage: Greninja has a lot of true combos on you, unfortunately you have to eat the hits most of the time. Rage Dedede is pretty scary though and if you can avoid Greninja's horizontal kill moves (Fair, Fsmash, Dsmash) you can live a very long time. Just remember that if the Greninja is absolutely tourney serious, he will just go for the timeout instead of risking his life trying to kill a rage Dedede (aka you have to approach). Getting back on stage isn't too difficult given Super Jump's superframes, but a good Greninja will ledgetrap you hard. Mix up ledge getup options.

Do you benefit from crowd energy or do you prefer the spectators to be relatively quiet?

Q. Do you benefit from crowd energy or do you prefer the spectators to be relatively quiet?

A. I don't wear headphones, but I still filter out background noise well since I'm really into the game and focusing on game audio. You'd have to tap my shoulder to get my attention when I'm playing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me what the audience is doing, but I do prefer a loud and active scene (whether its for or against me, hype is hype).

Why do you say Town & City is more neutral than Smashville? Is it the most neutral stage?

How do you think Sonic should be played?

Q. Why do you say Town & City is more neutral than Smashville? Is it the most neutral stage?

A. It's not as matchup polarizing as Smashville because of the horizontal drifting platform. Characters with Fair chains (Sheik, Ness, Diddy, Mewtwo, etc.) and character with high base knockback forward throws (Ness, Diddy, Mario, Rosalina, etc.) can kill at really low % with the assistance of the Smashville platform. You may say it doesn't happen very often, but I've seen it happen at all levels of play and regardless the possibility is there. Town & City is pretty fair since it rotates between a platform and flat layout. There is some jank that can happen like dying due to a missed tech on a blastzone bound platform or a Uair chaining character getting extended combos, but its not as bad. I think FD is actually the most neutral stage, despite it helping zoners a lot. Zoning in this game is not as prominent as it was in Brawl because shielding and mobility is better. I can't think of a single character that gets a super huge benefit from FD.

Q. How do you think Sonic should be played?

A. Optimally he, should be played very hit and run and campy, with lots of circle camping. This is kinda accentuated by his design since he has really average frame data for a fast character, bad landing options, and bad kill power. Therefore, a Fox can be pretty aggressive since he has the kill power and frame data to complement his speed, while Sonic doesn't. It might be lame, but that's just how the character is best played.

Whats so bad about Wii Fit for you in terms of a match up?

Q. Whats so bad about Wii Fit for you in terms of a match up?

I just dislike ledge camping characters (Villager's bad too but is a bit better for me IMO), especially ones that can heal for free (so you can never truly maintain a lead on them and force approaches unless you are up a stock) and kill you for making a mistake approaching. I generally have to play on top of them all the time to win, and its annoying.

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What does Palutena need to be viable?

Would switching Custom specials with her defaults be enough?

Q. What does Palutena need to viable?

A. Not much honestly. Get her some better startup (you know its bad when her fastest grounded attack is her frame 6 Dash attack) and reduce endlag (having tilts with more than 1 second of endlag is bad). She is definitely viable from that point IMO, she has great aerials, decent throw confirms, and good mobility.

Q. Would switching Custom specials with her defaults be enough?

A. Yes, because it allows her to rely on her aerial game even more, with the ability to play a very hit and run style which is better than a walling style default Palutena plays. So it allows her to sort of ignore her poor grounded frame data (though it's still there). I think custom Palutena is top 15 assuming it was only her that was allowed customs, I've seen enough Aerolink to know this.

Edited by Knife
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Palutena's ground game is sad ;_;.

I say this as a part-time Palutena player.

Please give me tilts instead of misinputs. Though utilt can be useful.

Having one faster-ish smash wouldn't hurt either, such as if dmsmash was faster other than just being a weaker fsmash, or something.

Uthrow killing 5-10% earlier would be a huge help, actually. (currently around 150 with rage on mid-heavy chars)

A very, very slight disjoint increase on fair would be very good as well.

... I just listed things I've pondered about in the past but I think these would be appropriate buffs to Palutena.

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If you played as your favorite CHARACTER (forget movesets), who would it be?

Q. If you played as your favorite character, who would it be?

A. Link of course. The whole solitary warrior that has nothing but his courage to fight evil (starting out) trope appeals to me so much.

Palutena's ground game is sad ;_;.

I say this as a part-time Palutena player.

Please give me tilts instead of misinputs. Though utilt can be useful.

Having one faster-ish smash wouldn't hurt either, such as if dmsmash was faster other than just being a weaker fsmash, or something.

Uthrow killing 5-10% earlier would be a huge help, actually. (currently around 150 with rage on mid-heavy chars)

A very, very slight disjoint increase on fair would be very good as well.

... I just listed things I've pondered about in the past but I think these would be appropriate buffs to Palutena.

She definitely needs frame data fixes on her moves. It's pretty bad when her tilts have worse FAF than most smash attack (though the active frames are nice, they should make dtilt hit better below the ledge for 2 frames). The rest seem like quality of life fixes and won't address her main issues. Also, her Usmash is amazing, one of the best Smashes in the game IMO after what TLTC did me when I played him (it is so good for catching ledge getups).

How do you fight against Sonic? What match-ups does he have trouble with?

Q. How do you fight against Sonic? What match-ups does he have trouble with?

A. In general, you find ways to shut down his approaches (lingering aerials to stop spindash helps so much, especially if you have confirms off them) and abuse his poor landing options since he has pretty much no autocancels or low lag aerials and is floaty. Kinda of a broad answer I know, you're gonna have to tell me a matchup if you want more than that.

Sonic is commonly cited to have trouble against Rosalina, Cloud, Fox, Sheik (might be even after the patch), Zero Suit Samus, and Mega Man. Otherwise he's generally strong against most of the cast, though there are some debatable evens like Mario, Diddy, Villager, Pikachu, and Ike. He's also one of the best counterpick characters to the viable heavy crew (DK and Bowser) and pretty much destroys them.

Are you going to Genesis 4? :v

70% sure I'll be going, last year was a blast.

Edited by Knife
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What do you think of Smash 4's balance?

How bad is the Rosa/Cloud matchup?

What matchups does Bowser have trouble with?

What stages does Bowser prefer? What stages does he not like?

Edited by Tsunami922
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What do you think of Smash 4's balance?

How bad is the Rosa/Cloud matchup?

What matchups does Bowser have trouble with?

What stages does Bowser prefer? What stages does he not like?

Q. What do you think of Smash 4's balance?

A. As of 1.16, the game is pretty balanced at top level with no clear "best" character (Diddy would be the best candidate, though Cloud could be if he didn't have such a bad MU with top level Sheik). You can at least win at the local level with most characters if you're good enough (unless you live in Tri-State or Socal). Trela bodying all of Houston with Mii Swordfighter and pre-patch Mewtwo strikes me as a personal example. Most characters in Smash 4 are easy enough to play with a solid understanding of fundamentals.

As you get higher up competitive play, lower tier characters won't cut it anymore and mid tier characters struggle with common matchups. As balanced as Smash 4 is, there definitely is a tier list. This is evident in what characters tend to perform better (and while some characters are unexplored, for the most part good characters are common because they're good).

You might think that you can succeed by solo maining a top tier character based on how balanced most top tier MUs are (I don't think anyone in top 9 has more a +1 advantage on each other) but even then it's tricky. Anti's recent victory at CEO shows how important counterpick characters are in the meta. He used primarily Mario, but he needed his pocket Cloud, ZSS, and Metaknight to advance at times. Given how large the roster is, don't underestimate the value of counterpicking and MU inexperience which can get you pretty far even if you main a low tier (though if you do, you should still pocket a top/high tier).

TLDR; Smash 4 is so balanced and characters are so easy to play that actually having more than 1 character can be extremely useful at times. Disclaimer though, don't try to pocket characters if you don't play at a high level, stick to one until you do (I don't even consider myself good enough to attempt pocketing multiple characters). Read my previous post on what characters make good CPs.

Q. How bad is the Rosa/Cloud matchup?

A. Theory (Cloud has big disjoints with safe aerials, should be able kill Luma easily and pressure Rosalina with good mobility/offense) and early results (such as Tweek beating Dabuz convincingly at Shots Fired) gave the impression that Cloud won this MU hard. Recent results however have shown its not that bad, with Dabuz and Falln beating Tweek very recently. Rosalina has some of the best edgeguarding in the game and Cloud can die very early with a good sweetspot Bair/Dair from Rosalina. Rosalina Uair also beats Cloud's Dair, so he is prone to juggling (which he normally has no issue with because his Dair is so good). Still in Clouds's favor, but not by much. MUs can change over time, this is a good example of one.

Q. What matchups does Bowser have trouble with?

A. I'm not sure about the mid tier/low tier MUs, but I imagine he does pretty well against most people around or below his level. When we start getting into the top tier MUs, he loses badly to Zero Suit Samus and Sonic, with disadvantage to Ryu, Cloud, Diddy, and Rosalina. He can actually do fairly well against Mario, Fox, and Sheik based on results. I definitely think you need a secondary to be able to beat ZSS and Sonic.

Q. What stages does Bowser prefer? What stages does he not like?

A. Bowser should prefer to go these stages (as in I'd ban these against him): Town & City (low ceiling for his Uthrow>Uair to kill earilier)

Bowser doesn't like these stages (I'd counterpick him here): Battlefield (live longer against his vertical kill moves, avoid grabs easier with platforms, juggling him is easier, circle camping is easier since he has to commit a lot when he jumps after you), Duck Hunt (you can camp him easily in the tree, though be careful of his command grab if he is in range), and Dreamland (circle camping potential, avoids grabs, makes juggles easier, though you may want to avoid getting caught in his Side B as you could die pretty early if he lands on a platform).

Edited by Knife
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  • 3 weeks later...

I currently still use Ike the most currently and feels his worst MU is Diddy Kong, from your knowledge of both characters, what do you think would be Ike's best options in that MU as a whole?

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