{Revelation's ending} I am confused...

[WinterOkami]

Alright so I got done playing Revelations and there are couple of questions that came to mind looking back at it.

1.If Gunter can commit Seppuku and survive after healing then what's the point of having Ryoma's dramatic death scene, I get that he stroke himself with lightning but it was not what killed him because death by lightning kills you immediatly since the brain gets blown up. I mean if they faked Hinoka's death, they can fake his as well by having Xander take the body.

2. Anankos what's to kill everyone right ? Destroy all kingdoms then in this case why not summon Zombie Mikoto and Sumeragi to the real world to team up with Ganon Garon.

+ Why bring Takumi so late in Conquest's ending if Anankos wants to get the job the done he could simply do that.

3. The Rainbow Sage said Yato needs to react to the power of the legendary weapons, It's suppose to emphasise on their bond as brothers by their bond I mean the one that Xander,Corrin, Ryoma Blond Marth Leo and Takumi but in the fight Corrin just says he wants more power then all the weapons get out of nowhere and create Omega Yato. The way they executed it in Conquest was great as Leo and Corrin had a brotherly moment and Xander defending Corrin and make this epic speech about the real Garon was a good brotherly moment as well. Couldn't we simply have them unite by having Corrin get blown that and get supported by his brothers.

4. Alright so that's more personal but it's regarding the after-battle against Anankos. Corrin becomes the Wise King of Valla, he told Azura that she was supposed to be Queen but Corrin beating Anankos is the reason why he deserves to be King more than her.

That's cool and all but what if you are like me and you married Azura for Revelations ? She is the Queen of Valla and has the same role has Corrin so why this conversation.

5. If Corrin worked for making Valla a better place with Hoshido and Nohr's help, how did they do that ? Did they drop the ressources from the Great Canyon ? In this case does that mean everyone knows of Valla ? This makes no sense to be honest.

6. I know it's told in Dlcs but couldn't they have Anankos reveal his identity as Corrin's father however have the nice Anankos talk to him when Corrin is about to kill him or something " he somehow reached his heart and hears a Thank you son ".

7. Silas is still Corrin's best friend, why didn't he join Valla's army ?

8. Everyone in Valla was an Anankos pawn, how could there possibly be any remaining survivors that aren't zombies.

9.What's the point of keeping Gunter alive if it's for disapearing out of nowhere. Couldn't he sacrifice himself for Corrin and join his wife and child..

10. Why isn't that it's only now that Garon comes out of nowhere to get eaten by Anankos, they had all those scenes where the Hoshidan Royal Family cried for Mikoto and Sumeragi, at least have the Nohrian Scums Royal Family have their emotional moment, maybe near the moment he was about to die have us see Garon's original face before becoming a pawn of Anankos {Leo said he used to be very nice and also handsome with a lot of ladies at his back}. It would have been great to see Garon's ugly face crack into the handsome man he used to be before getting eaten like dragon treat.

Anyways these were my questions, hope you can help understand a lot more please.

[Abvora]

1.If Gunter can commit Seppuku and survive after healing then what's the point of having Ryoma's dramatic death scene, I get that he stroke himself with lightning but it was not what killed him because death by lightning kills you immediatly since the brain gets blown up. I mean if they faked Hinoka's death, they can fake his as well by having Xander take the body.

I assume Gunter survived because there were healers on standby, while Ryoma was in the same room as Garon, so Corrin couldn't send healers to him, so he bled out.

2. Anankos what's to kill everyone right ? Destroy all kingdoms then in this case why not summon Zombie Mikoto and Sumeragi to the real world to team up with Ganon Garon.

+ Why bring Takumi so late in Conquest's ending if Anankos wants to get the job the done he could simply do that.

Because it would unite the kingdoms against him. He really wants to manipulate them into fighting each other.

3. The Rainbow Sage said Yato needs to react to the power of the legendary weapons, It's suppose to emphasise on their bond as brothers by their bond I mean the one that Xander,Corrin, Ryoma Blond Marth Leo and Takumi but in the fight Corrin just says he wants more power then all the weapons get out of nowhere and create Omega Yato. The way they executed it in Conquest was great as Leo and Corrin had a brotherly moment and Xander defending Corrin and make this epic speech about the real Garon was a good brotherly moment as well. Couldn't we simply have them unite by having Corrin get blown that and get supported by his brothers.

Yeah, no, this was just laziness on the devs parts.

4. Alright so that's more personal but it's regarding the after-battle against Anankos. Corrin becomes the Wise King of Valla, he told Azura that she was supposed to be Queen but Corrin beating Anankos is the reason why he deserves to be King more than her.

That's cool and all but what if you are like me and you married Azura for Revelations ? She is the Queen of Valla and has the same role has Corrin so why this conversation.

1) Dev laziness in not changing plot dialogue, and 2) It's possible their roles will be different, ie Corrin will be the one doing the public speaking while she does the behind-the-scenes paperwork, hence why he asks her if she's still fine with that since he'll be getting all the credit.

5. If Corrin worked for making Valla a better place with Hoshido and Nohr's help, how did they do that ? Did they drop the ressources from the Great Canyon ? In this case does that mean everyone knows of Valla ? This makes no sense to be honest.

He says in his speech that Hoshido and Nohr gave land to make a new Valla, so it's somewhere on the surface.

6. I know it's told in Dlcs but couldn't they have Anankos reveal his identity as Corrin's father however have the nice Anankos talk to him when Corrin is about to kill him or something " he somehow reached his heart and hears a Thank you son ".

The good Anankos has been completely absorbed by the evil one, I believe.

7. Silas is still Corrin's best friend, why didn't he join Valla's army ?

Because the epilogues are lazily-written generic pieces of crap.

8. Everyone in Valla was an Anankos pawn, how could there possibly be any remaining survivors that aren't zombies.

Some may have escaped and fled to the surface during the first destruction, while others may have been taken as slaves to keep the army's equipment in order. That's the reasoning I used for my fic, anyway. Anthony at least was completely human and not a zombie, so there were at least some humans in Valla.

9.What's the point of keeping Gunter alive if it's for disapearing out of nowhere. Couldn't he sacrifice himself for Corrin and join his wife and child..

I assume it's supposed to be a character arc, but it's sloppily written.

10. Why isn't that it's only now that Garon comes out of nowhere to get eaten by Anankos, they had all those scenes where the Hoshidan Royal Family cried for Mikoto and Sumeragi, at least have the Nohrian Scums Royal Family have their emotional moment, maybe near the moment he was about to die have us see Garon's original face before becoming a pawn of Anankos {Leo said he used to be very nice and also handsome with a lot of ladies at his back}. It would have been great to see Garon's ugly face crack into the handsome man he used to be before getting eaten like dragon treat.

Dev laziness.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Abvora

[GoXDS]

1. Gunter was "only" stabbed in the stomach. meanwhile, Ryoma slashed his whole belly open

2. Garon wasn't simply a ress'ed zombie. also, Garon seems to have more power pumped into him than normal since Anankos regained power by devouring him. so Anankos might not have been able to afford summoning more people as actual bodies (rather than invisibles), outside of Valla

3. *shrug* the brothers thought something in their heads?

4. who has the real power, I guess? implies Valla isn't strictly patriarchal so it's possible for Azura to be Queen and hold most of the power while having a King. instead, it's the other way around

5. as mentioned, not original Valla

6. probably could've. they just decided not to

7. yea, epilogue lines are lazy. but also, long distance friends! he also could've felt that he had to join him before since Corrin needed support in his cause and felt Corrin was being wronged. but now that that's all over, he's less obliged to do so and so goes back to where his duty says as a knight of Nohr

8. above

9. some people just like peiple alive better even if it's better, plotwise, to leave them dead =\

10. they didn't really write anything that would lend to such a scene. Garon was really gimped as a character. such a scene would require some rewriting of the plot. as mentioned, Garon probably had more of Anankos's influence over him. and even then, the scene where he gets gobbled, there's nothing really that would suddenly "wake: real Garon up for a second

[WinterOkami]

Thanks a lot at least the story seems clearer

[joshcja]

When a (young male audience focused) manga writer writes your plot, it looks like EFP (Extruded fantasy product) with dank memes and even more T&A.

That's pretty much the answer to "why is fates plot?"

Edited August 18, 2016 by joshcja

[WinterOkami]

If manga artists wrote the story it would explain all the japanease cliché/fantasm for the female units.

[joshcja]

If manga artists wrote the story it would explain all the japanease cliché/fantasm for the female units.

There's no "if"

The game was straight up advertised as "Come play as a half nhorshidian half dragon half sue in this thrilling 3 way epic battle written by a semi-known young male audience targeted manga writer while having epic 3 ways in the new base mechanic!"

This is also apparently why some people complain about the plot (???), apparently this announcement was "hype" instead of "well i'm playing this inebriated as fuck"

Edited August 18, 2016 by joshcja

[DKlein89]

Alright so I got done playing Revelations and there are couple of questions that came to mind looking back at it.

4. Alright so that's more personal but it's regarding the after-battle against Anankos. Corrin becomes the Wise King of Valla, he told Azura that she was supposed to be Queen but Corrin beating Anankos is the reason why he deserves to be King more than her.

That's cool and all but what if you are like me and you married Azura for Revelations ? She is the Queen of Valla and has the same role has Corrin so why this conversation.

Anyways these were my questions, hope you can help understand a lot more please.

Which child did you sacrifice being able to recruit for that Azurrin ship?

[TheWerdna]

As mentioned above, about half your questions can be answered by "the devs got lazy"

[RedRob]

There's no "if"

The game was straight up advertised as "Come play as a half nhorshidian half dragon half sue in this thrilling 3 way epic battle written by a semi-known young male audience targeted manga writer while having epic 3 ways in the new base mechanic!"

This is also apparently why some people complain about the plot (???), apparently this announcement was "hype" instead of "well i'm playing this inebriated as fuck"

I went and looked up what works the manga author IS pulled in to write the story had done, and so far they consist of a

• Shonen about two guys with superpower running a repo service
• A manga about wine tasting that he did with his sister
• A bunch of detective series
• A manga for Fatal Frame
• A shonen about people with psychic powers escaping from an evil organization
• A steampunk Journey to the West
• A sci-fi horror mystery
• A sports manga

Now, FE is medieval fantasy, and I see nothing like that in his resume, so who at IS thought he could write a FE game. Heck, his preferred genre seems to be detective fiction.

[NekoKnight]

Now, FE is medieval fantasy, and I see nothing like that in his resume, so who at IS thought he could write a FE game. Heck, his preferred genre seems to be detective fiction.

You can see some influences of this in Birthright and Revelations with the (once again poorly executed) traitor mystery.

I'm hesitant to blame Kibiyashi because it seems like he was barely involved with the writing. If he gave the general framework of the story, it was up to IS to refine and develop those ideas into a strong plot. The biggest problems seem to be rooted in "Kamui must be a morally flawless Mary Sue" and "We gotta find a way to sell Revelation", which I doubt Kibiyashi played a part in.

[Abvora]

You can see some influences of this in Birthright and Revelations with the (once again poorly executed) traitor mystery.

I'm hesitant to blame Kibiyashi because it seems like he was barely involved with the writing. If he gave the general framework of the story, it was up to IS to refine and develop those ideas into a strong plot. The biggest problems seem to be rooted in "Kamui must be a morally flawless Mary Sue" and "We gotta find a way to sell Revelation", which I doubt Kibiyashi played a part in.

I'm gonna disagree with the "Corrin is a Mary Sue" aspect, or at least that it's the root of the game's problems. The real root of the problem lies with Garon and the writer's inability to make him anything other than a one-dimensional villain. Make him more similar to Lyon and Travant, and suddenly all the problems with the game's morality and (especially) Conquest disappear.

[RedRob]

You can see some influences of this in Birthright and Revelations with the (once again poorly executed) traitor mystery.

I'm hesitant to blame Kibiyashi because it seems like he was barely involved with the writing. If he gave the general framework of the story, it was up to IS to refine and develop those ideas into a strong plot. The biggest problems seem to be rooted in "Kamui must be a morally flawless Mary Sue" and "We gotta find a way to sell Revelation", which I doubt Kibiyashi played a part in.

I''m just questioning why he was chosen to write for a genre he never wrote for before. If anything I'm blaming IS for not finding a more suitable writer.

Though I do wonder a bit about the framework Kibiyashi provided, since the only fantasy works he done are a lot more fantastical than FE. I wonder if Fates might had been more anime-ish if Kibiyashi was more involved with the story.

In the end, I don't think he was the best person to write a FE game, and I wonder why IS thought he was.

If you ask me, IS chose a shaky foundation for the story, and built an even shakier plot on top of it.

Edited August 20, 2016 by RedRob

[NekoKnight]

I'm gonna disagree with the "Corrin is a Mary Sue" aspect, or at least that it's the root of the game's problems. The real root of the problem lies with Garon and the writer's inability to make him anything other than a one-dimensional villain. Make him more similar to Lyon and Travant, and suddenly all the problems with the game's morality and (especially) Conquest disappear.

I think making Garon a more nuanced villain would be one way to tackle a lot of the narrative problems. Had he been a Lyon or Travant, we'd have a very different, and presumably better story. In the story we do have, however, Kamui's can-never-do-wrong-ultimate-charisma-chosen-one portrayal makes the story a lot worse.

Let's imagine a retelling of Conquest, fixing two separate issues:

Method 1: Garon is now a nuanced villain, making Nohr's cause more morally ambiguous. Kamui can now support them and still be heroic.

Method 2: Kamui is no longer obligated to be morally flawless, so he can support Nohr and be judged accordingly for his actions.

While I'd choose method 1 out of personal preference, method 2 would at least make the protagonist's actions consistent with his morality (i.e. Conquest becomes the Evil route). Fates is a very character driven story so I believe that the game's unwillingness to let the protagonist be flawed or develop as a character hurts the story more than the conflict being a cliche good vs evil scheme.

tl;dr I agree with you about fixing Garon being important but I rank it slightly lower than fixing the protagonist.

In the end, I don't think he was the best person to write a FE game, and I wonder why IS thought he was.

If you ask me, IS chose a shaky foundation for the story, and built an even shakier plot on top of it.

We may never know how much he truly had a hand in the writing, and whether or not his resume and writing specialty even mattered. I doubt his original draft will ever be released to the public. The only thing I've heard about his involvement was that Gooron was his idea (doesn't leave the best impression but the execution by IS may still be the real issue).

More than his specialty as a writer, I think the bigger mistake was hiring a writer who didn't have time to develop or supervise the project.

Edited August 20, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Blademaster_Aio]

There are many things wrong with fates plot, and which is why it's a mess.

But the devs were lazy. They have made decent plots that do not revolve around one character before, they have zero excuse to mess this up.

[WinterOkami]

Which child did you sacrifice being able to recruit for that Azurrin ship?

Soleil, too disturbing

Though I only did that thinking the ending would look different.

Rhajat is the real deal for my Kana since MyUnit gives her high strength with the magic increased to used both swords and dragonstones

I think making Garon a more nuanced villain would be one way to tackle a lot of the narrative problems. Had he been a Lyon or Travant, we'd have a very different, and presumably better story. In the story we do have, however, Kamui's can-never-do-wrong-ultimate-charisma-chosen-one portrayal makes the story a lot worse.

Let's imagine a retelling of Conquest, fixing two separate issues:

Method 1: Garon is now a nuanced villain, making Nohr's cause more morally ambiguous. Kamui can now support them and still be heroic.

Method 2: Kamui is no longer obligated to be morally flawless, so he can support Nohr and be judged accordingly for his actions.

While I'd choose method 1 out of personal preference, method 2 would at least make the protagonist's actions consistent with his morality (i.e. Conquest becomes the Evil route). Fates is a very character driven story so I believe that the game's unwillingness to let the protagonist be flawed or develop as a character hurts the story more than the conflict being a cliche good vs evil scheme.

tl;dr I agree with you about fixing Garon being important but I rank it slightly lower than fixing the protagonist.

We may never know how much he truly had a hand in the writing, and whether or not his resume and writing specialty even mattered. I doubt his original draft will ever be released to the public. The only thing I've heard about his involvement was that Gooron was his idea (doesn't leave the best impression but the execution by IS may still be the real issue).

More than his specialty as a writer, I think the bigger mistake was hiring a writer who didn't have time to develop or supervise the project.

Now about rearranging Nohr, having Corrin not turn evil is really odd now that you mention him. In Conquest he is way more emotional than in other paths because he is obliged to be Garon's dog. To be honest it's like Ghast in this story Corrin is perfect everyone loves Corrin, everyone is a Corrin sexual. Nobody hates Corrin, Corrin always get understood, if you don't like Corrin you're either possesed or you're the main villain and Camilla and Hinoka's worst ennemy because they need to ride Corrin's dragonsword.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm gonna disagree with the "Corrin is a Mary Sue" aspect, or at least that it's the root of the game's problems. The real root of the problem lies with Garon and the writer's inability to make him anything other than a one-dimensional villain. Make him more similar to Lyon and Travant, and suddenly all the problems with the game's morality and (especially) Conquest disappear.

Do we still need to put that much maligned ''slimy'' aspect about Garon under spoiler tags? If so then you may want to skip my post if you haven't finished the story yet.

The sad thing is that they actually did write Garon as a deeper, more interesting figure but decided to ditch him for a boring blob monster going MUHAHAHA 24 hours a day.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Etrurian emperor

[WinterOkami]

Do we still need to put that much maligned ''slimy'' aspect about Garon under spoiler tags? If so then you may want to skip my post if you haven't finished the story yet.

The sad thing is that they actually did write Garon as a deeper, more interesting figure but decided to ditch him for a boring blob monster going MUHAHAHA 24 hours a day.

Indeed

Btw couldn't Anankos tell him he was going to get killed ? Or at least retrieve the power he had so that Conquest leads to Revelation as the gang needs to avenge Garon knowing he was fooled all along.

I also really dislike how in other paths they ignore the weirdest events like Garon's final wishes or why exactly did Takumi came out of nowhere and fought.

That raises another question.

11. In the third path Azura sings the full song of Lost in Thoughts All Alone in End of All (Below}. Why is she still alive ? If End of All Sky and Land killed her why didn't Below didn't as it require far more superior powers since they were facing Anankos in his full power rather than a vessel.

[Edelgard]

11. It's because the song Lost in Thoughts is about Anankos and Valla. The curse forbids it to be sung outside of the hidden kingdom just like talking about it. That's why Azura slowly vanished, and that's why she could sing her heart out when facing Anankos. The final battle was located in Valla after all.

[WinterOkami]

11. It's because the song Lost in Thoughts is about Anankos and Valla. The curse forbids it to be sung outside of the hidden kingdom just like talking about it. That's why Azura slowly vanished, and that's why she could sing her heart out when facing Anankos. The final battle was located in Valla after all.

Makes sense but what was it Valla, it felt more like the middle of nowhere in the Astral Plane ?

[Edelgard]

Makes sense but what was it Valla, it felt more like the middle of nowhere in the Astral Plane ?

Not really. Anankos created a black hole in the sky that slowly consumed Valla (That's how it's explained on the wikia at least). So I guess it didn't make a difference on the curse.

[WinterOkami]

Hmm okay

[Thane]

Hmm okay

I think that just about sums up the ending of Revelation.