UNLEASH IT Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 This is a bit of a controversial topic but what do you guys think about abortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I am pro-choice to a degree. Keywords being to a degree. I don't approve of abortions being done just because the mom doesn't want the baby, nor do I approve of late-term abortions being done on perfectly healthy infants. But abortion is absolutely fine in some cases and even a necessity. What if the baby is discovered to have a serious disorder like Taysach's Disease? Taysach's literally destroys a baby's brain and subjects the poor thing to suffering all its life until it dies before the age of 3 or 4. I'd rather the kid just be aborted than put it through that. And what if pregnancy actually threatened the mother's life? And I haven't even mentioned cases like ectopic pregnancy. And sometimes, even if the baby has a disorder that doesn't necessarily threaten its life, it can still have something that can make it very hard for anyone to take care of it. It's cases like these that abortion should be legal for. Especially if the baby is in the first term. I'm not a believer that life starts at birth OR at conception. To me, life beings at the first heartbeat. The first heartbeat is the first sign of real human life. Otherwise, it's just a cell or little clump of cells that, while alive, are not really a living human yet. You might as well say life begins when the egg cell first develops in an unborn infant in that case, which really makes little sense given how many egg cells women get rid of through menstruation. Edited September 13, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I personally believe it to be personally wrong, but should be legal, but with red tape where necessary (i.e. not in cases of sexual assault or health concerns). Anything that can preserve life should be used to preserve it, unless it affects another's life. Illegal abortion should not return, no matter how bad legal abortion is, as that's a lot more dangerous than a legal one. @ Ana: Terminal illnesses I can excuse. Disorders that don't significantly shorten lifespan I cannot. I say this because people would abort Downs and other special needs disorders because the mother can't be bothered to try mothering a baby with developmental issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I agree that it's wrong if the mother simply doesn't want to take care of the baby. If the mom really can't afford to care for a child with a significant disorder and there aren't any other people around who can, then I think an abortion here is just fine. And I forgot to mention pregnancy from rape. I would hope to god I can abort the baby if I'm raped and pregnant from it. I'm someone who suffers from an extreme phobia of pregnancy and I'd probably have a panic attack and such on top of the mental damage done by the rape itself. My body is also very small and likely not very well suited to a birth, so my life could be threatened too. Edited September 13, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I agree that it's wrong if the mother simply doesn't want to take care of the baby. If the mom really can't afford to care for a child with a significant disorder and there aren't any other people around who can, then I think an abortion here is just fine. And I forgot to mention pregnancy from rape. I would hope to god I can abort the baby if I'm raped and pregnant from it. I'm someone who suffers from an extreme phobia of pregnancy and I'd probably have a panic attack and such on top of the mental damage done by the rape itself. My body is also very small and likely not very well suited to a birth, so my life could be threatened too. Does the place have safe surrender? Safe surrender is where you leave a newborn at one of a particular group of establishments where it easily could get into the custody of a governing body to care for it if the mother or family could not. If so, that isn't an excuse. If not, that must be her choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 100% pro choice. I don't really consider fetuses as "people", and think that women shouldn't be forced to go through a pregnancy, which can be a very unpleasant experience, if they don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Pro-Lifer here. The only two cases where I approve of abortion are 1) Risk to the mother's life, 2) The child has extreme mental degradation/will not survive birth/will need to be hooked up to life support for the entirety of a likely very short lifetime. Regarding pregnancy from rape, I think it a vital part of justice that a child should never have to pay for its parent(s)' misdeeds. However, I do agree with Rommel that there needs to be a functional adoption system for this. Since a child is its own organism from the very moment it is conceived with its own unique diploid DNA, it is of my opinions that it is a human and that it has human rights, and due to not yet having its own agency, it cannot be accused of any misdeed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Does the place have safe surrender? Safe surrender is where you leave a newborn at one of a particular group of establishments where it easily could get into the custody of a governing body to care for it if the mother or family could not. If so, that isn't an excuse. If not, that must be her choice. I don't know. I've never needed to find out. 100% pro choice. I don't really consider fetuses as "people", and think that women shouldn't be forced to go through a pregnancy, which can be a very unpleasant experience, if they don't want to. Then the woman shouldn't be getting pregnant in the first place. We've already mentioned things like rape, but otherwise, a woman can completely prevent herself from becoming pregnant by using condoms, birth control, and just not having sex. EDIT: Tuvarkz, so you would force me to go through something I am deathly afraid of just because some heartless monster decided to penetrate me and wind up getting me pregnant? If I could, I'd be saying something really mean right now, but of course, that would be really mean. So I'm just going to say I don't like you. Edited September 13, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Then the woman shouldn't be getting pregnant in the first place. We've already mentioned things like rape and terminal illnesses, but otherwise, a woman can completely prevent herself from becoming pregnant by using condoms, birth control, and just not having sex. People like to have sex. Condoms and birth control don't work 100% of the time, and even if they do, the woman might have just not decided to (or couldn't )use it for whatever reason, I don't judge. I just think women should have the right have abortions for whatever reason, no matter how futile they might seem to be. Edited September 13, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) People like to have sex. Condoms and birth control don't work 100% of the time, and even if they do, the woman might have just not decided to (or couldn't )use it for whatever reason, I don't judge. I just think women should have the right have abortions for whatever reason, no matter how futile they might seem to be. In the case where condoms and birth control actually don't work and it isn't because of anything the man or woman did (like secretly poking a hole in the condom), that I can let slide, but if a woman simply decides not to use a condom and she gets pregnant, that's her own fault. The child shouldn't have to pay for her stupidity. And you would really be okay with, say, aborting a late term fetus that would've otherwise had a good and healthy life? Wow. Just wow. Edited September 13, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 And you would really be okay with, say, aborting a late term fetus that would've otherwise had a good and healthy life? Wow. Just wow. I didn't say anything about late pregnancy abortions Like most pro choice people, I believe there should be a time limit for it, though I'm not sure which is it, since I'm not a specialist on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 The issue is you can't exactly prove this. Discriminating based on "woman doesn't want it" vs "woman can't take care of it" is tenuous and requires you to jump through a lot of hoops to get it. Then you get into issues where maybe the woman can't take care of the baby, but somehow her credentials mark her as "not wanting it." Keeping abortion uniform is consistent and doesn't require a word of mouth thing, and it's easy to lie. It's not viable to be in favor of abortions in some non-health related issues since it's much more difficult to prove in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I am very neutral about it Women shouldn't be doing abortion. It's basically murder of an unborn child, which should, like any other form of murder, be charged with. Furthermore, a woman shouldn't do abortion if they like, realized in the middle of their pregnancy (I'm talking like 5-6 months in) that a baby is hard and difficult to take care of, or if the baby is revealed to have a mental issue like Down Syndrome. These kids may be more difficult to take care of, but they are still kids! They deserve to live just as normal children deserve it. Cases when I don't mind abortion is if: - The mother is less than 16 years old. You are way too young to be a mother, since you are litterally in the middle of your schooldays and are still growing up on your own. You shouldn't be raising kids since it is bad for you AND your kid. - When the mother or kid will have serious issues , or have big chances of dying when the baby is born. - Sexual assault For ANY other reason, I don't approve of abortus. Not in the slightest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think society and governments should do whatever possible to prevent the necessity for abortions - educating children on contraception at an early age, increase social benefits for mothers, fathers and children, drastically improve supply for day care centers et cetera. Children are our society's future and should be worth a bigger part of the taxpayer's money than it is now. We have allowed children to become an economic liability - it's not fair to burden women with that responsibility and pretend that it's only their business. As long as that's the case we shouldn't even be talking about outlawing abortion tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Personally, I believe that life does begin at conception and abortion, therefore, is ending a life. However, I still support abortion because in my opinion, the pros outweigh the cons, especially in the case of mothers who are financially unable to support a child (and this happens to be the most common case). Though, I still wouldn't call myself pro-choice but rather pro-abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I didn't say anything about late pregnancy abortions Like most pro choice people, I believe there should be a time limit for it, though I'm not sure which is it, since I'm not a specialist on the subject. If we go by my belief at life beginning at the first heartbeat, I believe somewhere between week 24 and week 27 of the pregnancy is the line, as that is when the heart starts beating. Anytime before that it would be more okay to abort, anytime after that, it wouldn't be. This is mainly going by your stance on abortion though, not really mine. I'm just giving you a bit more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Personally, I believe that life does begin at conception and abortion, therefore, is ending a life. However, I still support abortion because in my opinion, the pros outweigh the cons [...] I doubt that any of these "pros" can possibly outweigh the con of destroying a life. Why stop at the unborn child then? Why not do the same with the elderly who can no longer work? Or disabled people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 EDIT: Tuvarkz, so you would force me to go through something I am deathly afraid of just because some heartless monster decided to penetrate me and wind up getting me pregnant? If I could, I'd be saying something really mean right now, but of course, that would be really mean. So I'm just going to say I don't like you. The intent of my beliefs is to minimize the loss of life. As there are no artificial wombs, then there is no other way to keep the new life alive, and I don't think it is fair to kill a human due regardless of how much of a monster the father might have been. And then, there's always the morning after pill, which will likely stop the conception itself, which means no life is lost. While a morning after pill can prevent an already fertilized egg from attaching, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt in favor of using the pill rather than banning the pill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horuos Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I honestly don't care. It is 100% their choice. If they want an abortion, go for it. However, I do care about the embryos aborted. I believe the aborted embryos should be used for stem cell research, as it could cure many different diseases, it could cure cancer for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 My stance: Abortion must be legal. If it is outlawed, abortions will still happen, they'll simply be more dangerous because they're done in illegal fashions with less concern for health and safety. I had an argument with my mother about this and she claims that only the mother has the right to make the choice. An acceptable position but if that is the case, it cannot be government funded. I refuse to pay for something that I am not allowed to comment on in any fashion. I do think that abortion should be deemed illegal after 23 weeks, however. At that point, premature babies have about a 25% of survival. If killing a live baby outside the womb is deemed illegal, then it should be the same inside the womb. The case of Kermit Gosnell is probably the best example of why this stance is acceptable. He would snip live prematures' spinal cords with scissors which is incredibly painful. If that is horrible in your opinion, then realize that there is no difference between that and doing it inside the womb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) The intent of my beliefs is to minimize the loss of life. As there are no artificial wombs, then there is no other way to keep the new life alive, and I don't think it is fair to kill a human due regardless of how much of a monster the father might have been. And then, there's always the morning after pill, which will likely stop the conception itself, which means no life is lost. While a morning after pill can prevent an already fertilized egg from attaching, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt in favor of using the pill rather than banning the pill. It probably doesn't work 100% of the time and the female might not have access to it. What if the rape victim is a child who can't drive herself anywhere? It's happened. Edited September 13, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think it's up to the woman/whoever. It's their body and not yours to make the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylveonzoroark Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) If a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be forced to go through pregnancy. That being said, she should also be responsible and use birth control when possible. Edited September 13, 2016 by sylveonzoroark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think it's up to the woman/whoever. It's their body and not yours to make the decision.Fair point.So it cannot be publicly funded. If I don't get a say so I refuse to pay for something I am not allowed to comment on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Pro-choice. Bad things happen for reasons people already named. The only real thing I feel that isn't really great about pro-choice is that I knew girl in high school who would have unprotected sex so she could "trap" a guy into being in a relationship with her if she got pregnant. And if being pregnant wouldn't do the trick, then she would just get an abortion... that is a bit crazy, but I am certain that is an extreme outlier and that kind of thing almost never happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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