Some Story Questions I Had about Hidden Truths (Major Spoilers)

[CooledEvergreen]

These were a few questions I had regarding the story after I played the DLC, and was wondering if people had some answers for them. It has been been a while since I played it so maybe some of these questions were already answered and I just forgot:

• Anankos insists that Inigo Severa and Owain to cut off any connections to their past, why? Sure, going around saying you're a warrior from another world would cause some issues and Owain's Brand might be a cause of concern but other than that I don't see the point of getting new names and hair colors. We see with Shigure's chapter that Vallite soldiers can track locations and the kids do fight them but Anankos decides this before they're ambushed.
• If Anankos is so insistent on severing ties, then why did he change Severa's and Owain's hair color to their mothers? It's still a hair color change but if he wanted to be safe he should've changed it so that it isn't reminiscent of either parents. Also, if he wanted to be even more safe, why not give them a makeover? Surely a part of a God can change more than hair color? Give them new eye colors, eye shapes, new hair lengths, new hairstyles, new heights, new voices there were a load more things he could have done.
• From what I can remember Anankos was like "Halp my World is in danger" and the trio and were like "cool story bro" and helped him out. I feel like there's a disconnect here. Did any of the other kids hear about this? Anankos talks about how he heard about the trio's exceptional feats so surely he heard of Chrom Robin and Lucina? Sure they're most likely busy and in Lucina's Single Ending it's implied she goes back to her future but surely it was a worth a try. It's not like your World, your kid and the love of your life is in danger or anything.
• Anankos hypes up the trio with all these cool new powers and all Inigo and Severa get are is some shiny new armor, while Odin gets to wield magic, there seems to be quite a difference here, and yeah you have those Dragon Veins but that's all temporary.
• Did Mikoto believe that Anankos passed away when she fled to Hoshido? When she went to Sumeragi how much did he know about Valla? Did they hope off the Bottomless Canyon like Corn and friends in Revelations? If Mikoto believed Anankos was alive then was her and Sumeragi's relationship all smoke and mirrors to keep Mikoto and Corn safe?
• I remember Lillith mentioning that she wouldn't betray Anankos by telling Corn about their lineage. I'm not sure which Anankos she's talking about and I can't see her looking good with either once. If she meant Baddie Anankos then it means she had some loyalty to him, which doesn't make a lot of sense considering how she despises him. And how would telling Corn about their origins betraying Goodie Anankos? Yeah there's the Valla curse but surely in Revelations it would be safe to say it? And even then, did Lillith know about the Water Teleportation thingy? Yeah maybe she wouldn't have enough power but considering how she can warp an army of people into a pocket dimension then surely it would have been worth a try?

Edited September 25, 2016 by CooledSheep

[Light Strategist]

When you find out, let me know. I gave up a while back.

Though I'll say one thing.

Anankos is capable of sending the trio back to around the time they left or to the future they saved. Why was Lucina just not added to the team at all? She'd definitely have wanted to help but it's just all conspicuous and irritating.

[SmolPerson]

1- I think this one is to stop anyone from tracking down where they're from and attacking their world, although this is kinda negated in Before Awakening and...well Hidden Truths 1

2- That's not much of a story issue. They're the fanservice characters from the popularity polls, so changing their appearance too much wouldn't work out too well. As for hair colors, they're probably defaulted so that no one could take a different hair color as being a confirmation of a certain character being their father in Awakening.

3- who knows with this one. Maybe Anankos thought they were the cool kids on the block? (Again, for the sake of fanservice, it had to be those three, but from a story standpoint it doesn't make much sense)

4- I don't think this is much of a story issue either. Owain mentions that he wants to be more magic oriented like his mom...but Lissa was most definitely not a Dark Mage so I guess that was just a design choice.

5- This is a prime example of why Mikoto shouldn't have been Vallite. And no, I'm pretty sure none of these were ever answered...

6- Good!Anankos. It's been a while since I've played as well, but I think he mentioned not wanting Corrin to know about him to SOL. And if I remember correctly, Lilith was listening in. I don't know if she knew about travel through water, though.

[Lightchao42]

Anankos insists that Inigo Severa and Owain to cut off any connections to their past, why? Sure, going around saying you're a warrior from another world would cause some issues and Owain's Brand might be a cause of concern but other than that I don't see the point of getting new names and hair colors. We see with Shigure's chapter that Vallite soldiers can track locations and the kids do fight them but Anankos decides this before they're ambushed.

There's no real in-universe reason, but the developers probably didn't want the player to know that they were returning Awakening characters immediately... even though it's obvious that they are.

If Anankos is so insistent on severing ties, then why did he change Severa's and Owain's hair color to their mothers? It's still a hair color change but if he wanted to be safe he should've changed it so that it isn't reminiscent of either parents. Also, if he wanted to be even more safe, why not give them a makeover? Surely a part of a God can change more than hair color? Give them new eye colors, eye shapes, new hair lengths, new hairstyles, new heights, new voices there were a load more things he could have done.

You shouldn't think too deeply into this, because the only reason their hair colors changed was to avoid giving them canon fathers.

From what I can remember Anankos was like "Halp my World is in danger" and the trio and were like "cool story bro" and helped him out. I feel like there's a disconnect here. Did any of the other kids hear about this? Anankos talks about how he heard about the trio's exceptional feats so surely he heard of Chrom Robin and Lucina? Sure they're most likely busy and in Lucina's Single Ending it's implied she goes back to her future but surely it was a worth a try. It's not like your World, your kid and the love of your life is in danger or anything.

The three of them were the top placing children in the popularity poll. In-universe, Anankos could only take a few people along and only brought the first three people who responded.

Anankos hypes up the trio with all these cool new powers and all Inigo and Severa get are is some shiny new armor, while Odin gets to wield magic, there seems to be quite a difference here, and yeah you have those Dragon Veins but that's all temporary.

It's probably just to explain why they're different from Awakening, even if not by much.

Did Mikoto believe that Anankos passed away when she fled to Hoshido? When she went to Sumeragi how much did he know about Valla? Did they hope off the Bottomless Canyon like Corn and friends in Revelations? If Mikoto believed Anankos was alive then was her and Sumeragi's relationship all smoke and mirrors to keep Mikoto and Corn safe?

Staying in a kingdom with an insane dragon god probably isn't safe, so Mikoto probably assumed that he died at some point. Mikoto couldn't talk about Valla without dying, so Sumeragi probably didn't know anything specific about the situation. And even if Mikoto thought that Anankos was alive, it's still possible for Mikoto to fall in love with someone else since her first love was lost forever.

I remember Lillith mentioning that she wouldn't betray Anankos by telling Corn about their lineage. I'm not sure which Anankos she's talking about and I can't see her looking good with either once. If she meant Baddie Anankos then it means she had some loyalty to him, which doesn't make a lot of sense considering how she despises him. And how would telling Corn about their origins betraying Goodie Anankos? Yeah there's the Valla curse but surely in Revelations it would be safe to say it? And even then, did Lillith know about the Water Teleportation thingy? Yeah maybe she wouldn't have enough power but considering how she can warp an army of people into a pocket dimension then surely it would have been worth a try?

She's referring to Human!Anankos, and she's respecting his wishes because he didn't want Corrin to know that their father is a malevolent dragon god. He also told Mikoto to not tell Corrin about him for the same reason.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Lightchao42

[NekoKnight]

tl;dr The Awakening Trio won a popularity poll and all of their lore is an excuse plot to justify their existence.

1&2. There is no reason to hide their identities.

Meta reason: They have new names and hair colors so they can be 'new' characters, and they didn't want any father to be canon.

3. "Cool story bro" is basically their reason for going with Anankos.

Meta reason: They won a popularity poll.

4. There is no reason other than the fact that Owain is a chunibyo nerd.

Meta reason: Nohr doesn't have any myrmidons and you already have two mercenaries, so Owain needed a new base class.

5. I don't think these questions get answered.

6. Dunno.

Meta reason: They didn't think of this before making the first three games or there wouldn't be 3 games if people talked about important information like this.

More questions (that I already know the meta reason to):

1. Why did Anankos only recruit 3 people when he has an entire multiverse of people to ask? Why those three specifically?

2. Why didn't Anankos give the Awakening trio more specific information about the Avatar, such as his name?

3. Why did the Awakening trio not take their mission seriously in any of the routes despite that being the only reason they're in Fatesland in the first place?

[Abvora]

2. Why didn't Anankos give the Awakening trio more specific information about the Avatar, such as his name?

This one actually is answered--he was about to when Lilith interrupted, and then his bigger concern was getting them away from her.

[Light Strategist]

4. There is no reason other than the fact that Owain is a chunibyo nerd.

Meta reason: Nohr doesn't have any myrmidons and you already have two mercenaries, so Owain needed a new base class.

But, by default Severa inherits Dark Mage from Cordelia, why not make her the Dark Mage and Owain a separate class from either of them?

[NekoKnight]

But, by default Severa inherits Dark Mage from Cordelia, why not make her the Dark Mage and Owain a separate class from either of them?

I don't think class subsets are generally considered in a character's canon personality (Cordelia states that she's a bad runner when Mercenary is one of her options), with some exceptions (Oboro gets Merchant because her family were merchants). But that's besides the point. Severa and Inigo are already Nohrian classes so they don't need to change.

[Light Strategist]

I don't think class subsets are generally considered in a character's canon personality (Cordelia states that she's a bad runner when Mercenary is one of her options), with some exceptions (Oboro gets Merchant because her family were merchants). But that's besides the point. Severa and Inigo are already Nohrian classes so they don't need to change.

Surely Cordelia having Myrmidon access would be move confusing in that regard, no?

Actually, you bringing up the Nohrian class factor has me wondering...

How would Fates have turned out if the trio went to Hoshido instead? Obviously, they wouldn't be Nohrian retainers but aside from that, it'd be interesting to think about how things would be different, wouldn't it?

[Lightchao42]

Surely Cordelia having Myrmidon access would be move confusing in that regard, no?

Actually, you bringing up the Nohrian class factor has me wondering...

How would Fates have turned out if the trio went to Hoshido instead? Obviously, they wouldn't be Nohrian retainers but aside from that, it'd be interesting to think about how things would be different, wouldn't it?

This is already answered by their reclass options. Inigo gets Ninja, Severa gets Sky Knight, and Owain stays as a Myrmidon/Samurai.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Lightchao42

[Light Strategist]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a story standpoint, honestly.

Also, I still can't actually imagine Inigo as a Ninja. I can just imagine him on a Stealth Op. He'd be hiding in some rafters, catch sight of a beautiful woman and utter something along the lines of: "Well hello there." and give himself away. Owain and Severa actually have more solid support on their end, what with Owain's base class and Future Past Severa's actions.

[twistedxgrace]

• Anankos insists that Inigo Severa and Owain to cut off any connections to their past, why? Sure, going around saying you're a warrior from another world would cause some issues and Owain's Brand might be a cause of concern but other than that I don't see the point of getting new names and hair colors. We see with Shigure's chapter that Vallite soldiers can track locations and the kids do fight them but Anankos decides this before they're ambushed.

I believe this is because Anankos doesn't want his evil army to end up going to their world (Ylisse) and potentially start another war there.

• Did Mikoto believe that Anankos passed away when she fled to Hoshido? When she went to Sumeragi how much did he know about Valla? Did they hope off the Bottomless Canyon like Corn and friends in Revelations? If Mikoto believed Anankos was alive then was her and Sumeragi's relationship all smoke and mirrors to keep Mikoto and Corn safe?

I suppose she assumed Anankos eventually died, but also consider that Sumeragi was already married to Ikona upon meeting (and falling in love at first signt with) Mikoto, and he would end up having two more kids with his first wife. I kind of like to think that the triangle's relationship was a bit complicated, but clearly the Hoshidan kids didn't mind calling Mikoto "Mother." Azura hints in Revelation that Sumeragi knew of Valla, and Mikoto post-zombie-boss fight in chapter 24 says she couldn't tell Corrin about Valla because of the curse. She and Sumeragi must've gone down the Bottomless Canyon at least once, or maybe Valla is more common knowledge to the older generations. This would all make a lot more sense if we were given a reason why the curse exists and how long it's been in place (apparently is automatically goes away at the end of Revelation, too?). But nope; it's just a dumb plot device that only exists to bring the two armies together.

[NekoKnight]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a story standpoint, honestly.

It would be more consistent with their personalities. I get that they are looking for the Avatar (albeit not very hard) in Nohr but how could they support Garon's conquest with a clean conscience? They've already experienced fighting a conqueror in their own world, but now they're allied with one.

I guess you could say that because Nohr is more of a meritocracy and open to foreigners when compared to Hoshido, they are more readily accepted in Nohr. Still, I wouldn't mind Inigo and Severa replacing Setsuna and Asama. Hinoka got screwed on her retainers.

Edited September 27, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Augestein]

1&2. There is no reason to hide their identities.

Meta reason: They have new names and hair colors so they can be 'new' characters, and they didn't want any father to be canon.

3. "Cool story bro" is basically their reason for going with Anankos.

Meta reason: They won a popularity poll.

4. There is no reason other than the fact that Owain is a chunibyo nerd.

Meta reason: Nohr doesn't have any myrmidons and you already have two mercenaries, so Owain needed a new base class.

Which is freaking weird since the game could have just checked to see if you had a save from Awakening and used your hair color from there. That'd have been a nice touch too. It'd have also been a smart way to let people get Robin / Lucina that DIDN'T have amibos.

4. Which is still weird when you consider the fact that he still has Samurai as a secondary class.

[Light Strategist]

Which is freaking weird since the game could have just checked to see if you had a save from Awakening and used your hair color from there. That'd have been a nice touch too. It'd have also been a smart way to let people get Robin / Lucina that DIDN'T have amibos.

It also could have loaded the Avatar appearance and name from the Awakening Streetpass Data as well.

Alternatively, why isn't that an option for a Bonus Character or two? I'm sure it'd be fun to have Morgan floating about as both a Tactician AND a Dragon, right? ^_^

(obviously I'm discounting Manakete Morgan)

Edited September 27, 2016 by Light Strategist

[shadowofchaos]

Which is freaking weird since the game could have just checked to see if you had a save from Awakening and used your hair color from there. That'd have been a nice touch too. It'd have also been a smart way to let people get Robin / Lucina that DIDN'T have amibos.

Hi there.

I'm a 3ds hacker.

And I can say that your statement is a grossly unfair simplification of the 3ds's limitations and extdata system.

Explanation: Save permission access from each individual 3ds game to another is a security hole that can be exploited with the way the 3ds stores things if that was built into a regular game. Which is why only the development tool Savedatafiler is the only non-homebrew tool that ventures into that territory. You can't run it legit unless it's on a devkit 3ds.

Not to mention carts can't be suspended if they're removed and you will shaft anyone who doesn't have a digital copy if you're thinking it's as easy as how Radiant Dawn did it with PoR. It's literally hardcoded to reset the 3ds with an error message if you eject the cart.

The best you can do is check for Awakening extdata folder on the sd card. And if it exists gives you bonuses. Like, you know, what they did with the accessory shop.

Edit: I apologize for my rude tone... but please think about why a feature wasn't there first before complaining.

Edited September 27, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Light Strategist]

The best you can do is check for Awakening extdata folder on the sd card. And if it exists gives you bonuses. Like, you know, what they did.

Could they not have programmed Fates to read Awakening's Streetpass Data and downloaded the Avatar based on how they were made in that file? Like how Streetpass features work for passing someone with an uploaded team/castle.

I'm clueless about hacking in this regard but that seems doable from my perspective since it'd be just reading for the Avatar data.

[Augestein]

Hi there.

I'm a 3ds hacker.

And I can say that your statement is a grossly unfair simplification of the 3ds's limitations and extdata system.

Explanation: Save permission access from each individual 3ds game to another is a security hole that can be exploited with the way the 3ds stores things if that was built into a regular game. Which is why only the development tool Savedatafiler is the only non-homebrew tool that ventures into that territory. You can't run it legit unless it's on a devkit 3ds.

Not to mention carts can't be suspended if they're removed and you will shaft anyone who doesn't have a digital copy if you're thinking it's as easy as how Radiant Dawn did it with PoR. It's literally hardcoded to reset the 3ds with an error message if you eject the cart.

The best you can do is check for Awakening extdata folder on the sd card. And if it exists gives you bonuses. Like, you know, what they did with the accessory shop.

Edit: I apologize for my rude tone... but please think about why a feature wasn't there first before complaining.

And it wasn't even a complaint. Like. At all. That was actually beyond rude. I just said "it was weird." I don't work with 3DS hardware nor do I program on it, nor have the devkit, so I wasn't aware that it worked that way.

[Light Strategist]

And it wasn't even a complaint. Like. At all. That was actually beyond rude. I just said "it was weird." I don't work with 3DS hardware nor do I program on it, nor have the devkit, so I wasn't aware that it worked that way.

Can I appreciate how it looks like your avatar looks utterly terrified as though they've been yelled at?

[shadowofchaos]

And it wasn't even a complaint. Like. At all. That was actually beyond rude. I just said "it was weird." I don't work with 3DS hardware nor do I program on it, nor have the devkit, so I wasn't aware that it worked that way.

That's why I explained it and made sure to apologize in advance if you took my explanation as having a rude tone.

So if you took it that way, I apologize.

The point for my post is that your "it's weird that" *point* does imply disappointment and a complaint against what they have now.

[Augestein]

Can I appreciate how it looks like your avatar looks utterly terrified as though they've been yelled at?

Sure. It just bothered me by virtue that it was a hyper-aggressive statement for no real reason and the edit only serves to make the response worse rather than better.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that they would have needed anything more than the extras folder from Awakening. So if it checks for it, I'm not sure why it theoretically couldn't actually check through the Awakening extras folder on a creation of a save on Fates. Or even better, it just does it as a presents option like it does for the accessory. As the hair colors and units for the support log seemed to be stored there with an address created with the most recent save that had anything relevant to load over the address of the current hair color or support log statuses in general. Whether that save exists or not. IE, to test this try this:

Let's go with two avatars because it's the fastest way to demonstrate what I mean. Suppose you have a male avatar named Reflet that beat the game and another male avatar named Robin that did not. load up Reflet and save. In the support log, we see Reflet. Now load up Robin, and then save. You'll see Robin covered over Reflet. More interestingly, is that the hair colors of the children will NOT change to Robin's hair colors for children unless Robin has actually obtained them.

Obviously in the game's current state Fates can't do this considering that it apparently only checks to see for the existence of Awakening, but what exploit would really be used from looking at the support log and grabbing the last matching addresses for hair color? I don't see how either version that's digital or physical would be shafted because what I even had in mind for it didn't even require switching of carts, and while I have a physical copy of Awakening, I'm almost certain that the digital copy also has the extra folder as well. Because as far as I'm concerned, in terms of security, the extras folder doesn't actually have anything of value-- no skills, characters, so unless the Awakening extras folder doesn't hold things like the support log -- which I'm pretty sure it does on the account that the fastest way to exploit finishing the support log is by having multiple save and saving on a separate file.

For the record, I'm not complaining, just thinking of a way that they could have perhaps used to avoid a possible security problem. It doesn't have access to an actual smart save at that point.

That's why I explained it and made sure to apologize in advance if you took my explanation as having a rude tone.

So if you took it that way, I apologize.

The point for my post is that your "it's weird that" *point* does imply disappointment and a complaint against what they have now.

The edit actually makes it worse. And no, "it's weird that" doesn't imply disappointment. It's weird, ala strange, that you'd think that. Am I implying disappointment by you then? No. Am I complaining about you? Not at all. I'm genuinely just curious as to why you'd think that I'd be disappointed. Realistically, it's one of those things that'd be nice but is ultimately a "more trouble than it's worth" ordeal. It only works for 3 characters and does very little else. We aren't talking something like Mass Effect where it transfers a ton of little flags-- broken ones at moments, but the thought is there.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Augestein

[shadowofchaos]

Your system save for the support log exists in your cart/game saves as well.

Not in the extdata folder.

As for security reasons, having a game have read and write permissions... or rather having the functionality to modify other titles' saves or data is a huge security concern. As in, Nintendo wouldn't allow that.

If the game function were to exist for that, what if the target id was changes. It's a huge thing that can run unsigned code?

It's actually the reason deathchaos made custom dlc Chrom and such.

Extdata save exploitation. (Which is different for Fates than it is for Awakening. Fates keeps the 6 extra saves and all temporary map saves)

As for the disappointment interpretation, "it is strange that" would imply that you saw it as outside the norm. That it would have been natural for them to do how you thought it was.

Regardless of my interpretation, I will just admit that I was in the wrong and apologize. I'm sorry for jumping on you like that.

Edited September 27, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Lightchao42]

Which is freaking weird since the game could have just checked to see if you had a save from Awakening and used your hair color from there. That'd have been a nice touch too. It'd have also been a smart way to let people get Robin / Lucina that DIDN'T have amibos.

That wouldn't make sense because they's supposed to be Smash!Robin and Smash!Lucina, not "your" Robin or Lucina.

[Augestein]

Your system save for the support log exists in your cart/game saves as well.

Not in the extdata folder.

As for security reasons, having a game have read and write permissions... or rather having the functionality to modify other titles' saves or data is a huge security concern. As in, Nintendo wouldn't allow that.

If the game function were to exist for that, what if the target id was changes. It's a huge thing that can run unsigned code?

It's actually the reason deathchaos made custom dlc Chrom and such.

Extdata save exploitation. (Which is different for Fates than it is for Awakening. Fates keeps the 6 extra saves and all temporary map saves)

As for the disappointment interpretation, "it is strange that" would imply that you saw it as outside the norm. That it would have been natural for them to do how you thought it was.

Regardless of my interpretation, I will just admit that I was in the wrong and apologize. I'm sorry for jumping on you like that.

So what exactly do the Awakening extras save then? I'm curious. Or do you have any documentation that can point me in the direction? I'll admit that I wasn't initially interested in 3DS hacking (I'm more interested in PC hacking and the only form of console hacking that I've done is playstation stuff), but now I'm actually interested. Primarily because I actually want to look at the make-up of games.

Well yeah, I can understand the reading versus editing permissions problem. The issue comes from the fact that the user can play with things directly in Awakening and then move a dirty save over from Awakening to Fates. So a hacked Awakening potentially allows for hacked Fates, or pointed to unused references etc. The user would have an easier time injecting all sorts of nonsense in. I get it.

I guess I'll look at that topic in more detail. I think I remember seeing that one.

Which does seem pretty natural at first glance. You have reoccurring characters, and the game even checks if you played the game that they came from. It *does* seem initially strange that all that comes from it is an accessory.

It's fine. I'm not upset. I was just taken aback by the response initially because it was just a bit of a "I wonder why they didn't" more than anything else.

That wouldn't make sense because they's supposed to be Smash!Robin and Smash!Lucina, not "your" Robin or Lucina.

Well yeah, as they are now. I was actually saying if they didn't. That was my fault for being unclear.