Should echoes have a 3 tiered system for all classes?

[Dinar87]

Since gaiden had a few third tier classes in it, I was wondering if they should be brought back or whether they should use split promotions again like in awakening and fates? What are your thoughts on this? 

[The DanMan]

Either they'll give every class a third-tier version (which from what I can tell actually work with the game's pacing thanks to differences in the way Gaiden handles promotion level and EXP yield) or leave it completely untouched. Obviously, I'd prefer them to touch things up.

[Busterman64]

I only have experience with 3'rd tier classes from RD(haven't played Gaiden). Personally, I would love all the classes to have 3'rd tiers because it's a mechanic I've missed since RD for how cool it is and how much it stands out! Or heck, go a step further and let you also have a choice in alternate classes like in Sacred Stones.

(Felt like showing the picture, also, it's a good example )

Pretty much:

3'rd tiers + Alternate Classes(some only for specific classes)= Massive Variety!

It'd be a way to make certain units(like the villigers in the trailer) be whatever you need to have a balanced team!

(Again, no experience with Gaiden whatsoever, just throwing ideas out there!)   

[Azz]

Personally I hope not. All the classes that did not have three tiers had something to offset this. For example:

-Alm's Hero class and Celica's Priest (Also for female mages) and Princess class both had two weapon types, being swords and bows and swords and magic respectively

-Falcon Knights had the slayer skill and the Whitewings had the triangle attack also

-Sages healed 5 HP every turn

-Saints healed 5 HP to the units around them every turn

In turn, third tiers were all locked to one weapon type and the only one that got a buff was Bow Knight which was that all their bows were 1-5 range which was the case already for all bow weapons except for the basic bow that was equipped if no weapon was already equipped.

While I wouldn't be too peeved off, I would like it to stay the way it already is.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Azz

[escotanner]

They said they were keeping everything in so it is possible.

[EricaofRenais]

I hope they do make third tier for all classes I loved it in RD and I want it to return, but if they leave it the same as in the original Gaiden I can live with it since I will still be able to use third tier on the units that have it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by EricaofRenais

[Night Zap]

I don't want third tiers. The main reason they were in RD was so the returning characters could start promoted (to contrast the inexperienced BD members), but still have the usual 30-40 levels to gain.

Also, most of Gaidens third tiers became new classes in other games. The Dread Fighter became an unrelated melee class, the Soldier seperated from Knight (Turning the latter into a first tier and the Baron/General into a second tier), Bow Knight became an alternative to Sniper instead of it's next tier. The only class that returned as a third tier was Gold Knight.

And if third tiers do return, I hope mastery skills won't be a thing (or at least, much more limited). Giving everyone a chance-based supermove is overpowered and quickly becomes boring, because anyone could suddenly unleash a nuke.

Overall, I feel that most third tiers have a "the same but more" feeling to them. The one that truly averts this are Snipers (Getting a horse in Gaiden and additional range in RD), but the first option became an alternate second tier in later games and more range is redundant when it comes to Gaiden (presuming bows keep their huge range in Echoes), so they couldn't gain anything interesting either.

[Dinar87]

11 minutes ago, Night Zap said:

I don't want third tiers. The main reason they were in RD was so the returning characters could start promoted (to contrast the inexperienced BD members), but still have the usual 30-40 levels to gain.

Also, most of Gaidens third tiers became new classes in other games. The Dread Fighter became an unrelated melee class, the Soldier seperated from Knight (Turning the latter into a first tier and the Baron/General into a second tier), Bow Knight became an alternative to Sniper instead of it's next tier. The only class that returned as a third tier was Gold Knight.

And if third tiers do return, I hope mastery skills won't be a thing (or at least, much more limited). Giving everyone a chance-based supermove is overpowered and quickly becomes boring, because anyone could suddenly unleash a nuke.

Overall, I feel that most third tiers have a "the same but more" feeling to them. The one that truly averts this are Snipers (Getting a horse in Gaiden and additional range in RD), but the first option became an alternate second tier in later games and more range is redundant when it comes to Gaiden (presuming bows keep their huge range in Echoes), so they couldn't gain anything interesting either.

But them being broken is exactly what made them so fun to use after players were accustomed to a less overpowered system. I understand some people might want an actual challenge that isn't trivialized by a chance based one hit kill but that's what I like about them. It just wouldn't be the same without those op skills. At least, that's my opinion anyways.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Dinar87

[escotanner]

Just now, Dinar87 said:

It just wouldn't be the same without those op skills. 

That is true, but I think that if they bring back 3 tiered classes, they may nerf them.

[Dinar87]

Just now, escotanner said:

That is true, but I think that if they bring back 3 tiered classes, they may nerf them.

That sucks :( what's the point otherwise?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Dinar87

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Classes in this game had third tiers, but they were really just for show because promoting just raised stats to the new class floor.

A villager could have 40 in all stats - every class, every unit has a 40 stat cap across the board. It's not like a 3rd tier gave any unit skills or real advantage, just some promotion gains (and not many extra levels because in Gaiden you promote ASAP).

As otherwise noted, non-third tiers got bonuses, but like I said, it's all for show. 40 is 40 is 40, and with such low stat growths you won't be missing to many +1 luck (or no stat) level ups.

[Azz]

Well third tiers in Gaiden weren't really broken, they were only broken in RD.

In Gaiden, they were no super awesome skills that ne-shot every things and with the horrid growths of Gaiden, you weren't gonna get a maxed out character, even if you over grind by going Villager->Merc->Swordfighter->Demon Fighter->Villager and so on until you got so much stats that you could finally go down a class that was worth it, but even then that was relatively pointless. If any class was broken it was Falcon Knight simply because if you had the peg sisters trained well enough you could destroy the last map with triangle attack shenanigans.

I do expect 3rd tiers to return since in one scene we do see Lukas (Luka) as an Armour Knight in I believe what would normally be the third map in Gaiden and as a soldier in the screen where Grey promotes to a Cavalier and by the third map, it is very unlikely he could have gotten to level 10, but level 7 yes and we all know, Armour Knight is not a fully promoted class, just don't expect third tiers to be broken since they were only broken in RD.

[escotanner]

They could add some skills to the game, but I'm not very hopeful.

[Tryhard]

3 minutes ago, Azz said:

I do expect 3rd tiers to return since in one scene we do see Lukas (Luka) as an Armour Knight in I believe what would normally be the third map in Gaiden and as a soldier in the screen where Grey promotes to a Cavalier and by the third map, it is very unlikely he could have gotten to level 10, but level 7 yes and we all know, Armour Knight is not a fully promoted class, just don't expect third tiers to be broken since they were only broken in RD.

Kinda makes me wonder too. Villagers didn't seem to be able to promote into Knights, just Soldiers. It's the fifth map including the cave bandits, though (after the promotion shrine). I don't think they would just leave it as Soldier -> Armour Knight, so perhaps we will just see 'General' as the third tier class, or indeed Baron.