How is Roy more popular than Marth?

[Harvey]

So I saw the results of the votes and I'm shocked that Roy made it second instead of say...oh idk, MARTH?!?!?

Now this really begs me the question, how the hell is Roy more popular than Marth when you consider the fact that.

1. Marth has miles of a better character development than Roy.

2. Marth has made more appearances than Roy

3. Marth is a more balanced and a PROPER unit in both FE and Smash?

I just don't get the point as to why a lot of people seem to favor Roy over Marth. Its just plain odd...

 

[Rezzy]

Roy has red hair, and is therefore better.

Keep in mind Marth's votes got divided between his two games, though I don't remember if that put him ahead.  Part of it is that Marth is kind of boring and generic, at least in the games that we got in the West.

Roy's in a similar vein, but his personality is slightly better, at least in my opinion.

[Harvey]

2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Roy has red hair, and is therefore better.

Keep in mind Marth's votes got divided between his two games, though I don't remember if that put him ahead.  Part of it is that Marth is kind of boring and generic, at least in the games that we got in the West.

Roy's in a similar vein, but his personality is slightly better, at least in my opinion.

I'm not so sure about that. But then again, I haven't played FE1 and FE3 so I can't say for certain.

But from what I've read about him, his personality is MILES better than Roy and according to Shadow Dragon, his personality got a whole lot better.

Roy to me is just plain horrible in every way because again, even if you can put up with his character, he is horribly balanced both in FE6 and Smash.

Also to note that when you consider that both Roy and Marth are nearly identical, it begs to wonder, what does Roy have that Marth doesn't.

 

[HK Motendra]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Also to note that when you consider that both Roy and Marth are nearly identical, it begs to wonder, what does Roy have that Marth doesn't.

Two words: Flame Sword

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Also to note that when you consider that both Roy and Marth are nearly identical, it begs to wonder, what does Roy have that Marth doesn't.

 

Two words: Red Hair

Yeah, Roy sucks as a unit, without taking his personal weapon into account, but people often don't take how good a unit they are into account when picking their favorites.  De gustibus non est disputandum.

[Harvey]

29 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Two words: Red Hair

By that logic, how is it that Raven, Selena, Sully and Eliwood aren't that popular?

 

[Rezzy]

10 minutes ago, Harvey said:

By that logic, how is it that Raven, Selena, Sully and Eliwood aren't that popular?

 

I've seen plenty of Raven and Selena fans.  Eliwood doesn't really have a strong force one way or the other.  Sully cut her magical red hair too short, so she doesn't get the full effect of its power.

[Randoman]

Roy's overall popularity in that poll really baffled me as well. 

Personally, I found Roy way too bland and perfect, personality-wise since he's composed and calm practically all the time. I mean, at least lords like Marth and Eliwood (who quite a few people also claim are bland) lose their cool/show weakness/make mistakes rather often and make them seem human and relatable enough.

I mean, Marth has quite a few moments in his games where he has to put his royal duties first over prioritizing saving innocent people, and he really resents doing that. Even his Awakening DLC chapter reinforces this when Marth talks to Robin after the chapter, and Elice in FE12 even calls Marth a weak, vulnerable child for wanting to save everyone and mentions that his heart breaks and bleeds when he loses even one companion (though Elice does wish that Marth will keep upholding such sentiments and ideals). There's also Marth not being able to confess his feelings to Caeda until Nyna pushes him to do so, and even then he was really awkward and stuttery about it. Marth also gets intimidated/flustered when Athena forces his way into his army in FE11 and when Tiki (though it was Xane disguised as her) proclaims her love for him. No other lord gets flustered or intimidated by his allies as much/often as Marth does.

As for Eliwood, both his father's and Ninian's death is really all I have to say. That, and being too trusting/kind to the point that Erik gets the jump on him and Lloyd/Linus get him at bladepoint when asking if they're okay after the battle.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Randoman

[L9999]

Never understimate Roy's fanbase. They are the reason he came back in Smash 4. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

I've seen plenty of Raven and Selena fans. 

*Opens mouth to question, only to realize you meant Fates Selena, not Flourspar*

Counting the combined results of Shadow Dragon Marth and New Mystery Marth, his total is 15877 + 8670 = 24547. That's over 4000 less than Roy's 28982. That's pretty substantial, but rest assured that all Smashers got top 10 slots with multiple iterations combined, so the connection there is strong. I couldn't tell you why Roy got the edge over Marth in the poll. From a Smasher's perspective, fire swords are cool, and I love the Smash 4 design that depicts Roy with more armor and a Ryu style bandanna instead of a headband. When Roy speaks in Smash, it's louder, more aggressive like his play style. When Marth speaks, it sounds pompous, uncaring, like he's late for an appointment for that feminine hair of his. And don't get me started on the tiara. And Roy's lower placement on tier lists gives him a delightful reputation as the franchise underdog. When a FE fan tells a Roy main that Roy was a garbage character in FE6, the Roy main is used to the rhetoric, appreciates it.

From the (western) Fire emblem fan's perspective, there just aren't a lot of people with personal experience with Roy's game to be biased against him as a Lord. And some who claim that Roy is good enough (These people also probably used Wolt too). There aren't a lot of us here singing Marth's praises either. Sure he's a great lord from a gameplay perspective, but his one western released game is commonly cited as the dark turn for the franchise. Even if people softened their stance on Shadow Dragon over the years, it's still a sensitive subject. Most of us started this series with lords like Lyn, Hector, Ike, Eirika, and Ephraim. And marth's writing and plot just don't do much that we haven't seen done better in those other games.

[Harvey]

5 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

From the (western) Fire emblem fan's perspective, there just aren't a lot of people with personal experience with Roy's game to be biased against him as a Lord. And some who claim that Roy is good enough (These people also probably used Wolt too). There aren't a lot of us here singing Marth's praises either. Sure he's a great lord from a gameplay perspective, but his one western released game is commonly cited as the dark turn for the franchise. Even if people softened their stance on Shadow Dragon over the years, it's still a sensitive subject. Most of us started this series with lords like Lyn, Hector, Ike, Eirika, and Ephraim. And marth's writing and plot just don't do much that we haven't seen done better in those other games.

I'd argue that Shadow Dragon sold well..infact better than PoR and RD. I don't get why people claim that it bombed considering that it sold on the same level as Sacred Stones did.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

44 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I'd argue that Shadow Dragon sold well..infact better than PoR and RD. I don't get why people claim that it bombed considering that it sold on the same level as Sacred Stones did.

 

Sales can help paint an explanation, but you need more details than just the individual game sales. Between its many iterations, the DS sold nearly 10 times the amount of units than the gamecube. Shadow Dragon retailed at a lower price, and your son already owns the system for pokemon. The Wii is not too far behind in sales, but its casual appeal helps explain why so few core games outsold their gamecube counterparts. Trust that I would not argue that Shadow Dragon "bombed". It's the principles of the game that struck negativity in fans. After Radiant Dawn's near abandonment of support conversations, we get a game that features no attempt at such a system. What a disappointment after going through so much effort to remake the game. And the plot is more bare bones than what you'd be used to with the internationally released titles. Very few scenes were added to the plot of the game, most in the form of prologue tutorial chapters. There's a new reclass feature, but it feels hollow. Only existing to turn bad units (like archers) into good units (like cavaliers and pegasus knights). Why raise a thief when you can just reclass him back to thief upon reaching a chapter with chests? It didn't feel like being expressive with your units, it felt like deploying units in an Advance Wars game. Plus the paralogue chapters have a downright offensive criteria to unlock. If you have less than X amount of units, you can get the paralogues in order to recruit more, substitute characters. Choices don't matter, only how bad you are at the game.

There are more gripes people shared for this game. And like I said, a lot of people are starting to hate it less these days. But when news of FE12 not getting an international release hit us, we accepted the death of the series and only Shadow Dragon felt right to blame.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Gustavos

[eclipse]

9 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Sales can help paint an explanation, but you need more details than just the individual game sales. Between its many iterations, the DS sold nearly 10 times the amount of units than the gamecube. Shadow Dragon retailed at a lower price, and your son already owns the system for pokemon. The Wii is not too far behind in sales, but its casual appeal helps explain why so few core games outsold their gamecube counterparts. Trust that I would not argue that Shadow Dragon "bombed". It's the principles of the game that struck negativity in fans. After Radiant Dawn's near abandonment of support conversations, we get a game that features no attempt at such a system. What a disappointment after going through so much effort to remake the game. And the plot is more bare bones than what you'd be used to with the internationally released titles. Very few scenes were added to the plot of the game, most in the form of prologue tutorial chapters. There's a new reclass feature, but it feels hollow. Only existing to turn bad units (like archers) into good units (like cavaliers and pegasus knights). Why raise a thief when you can just reclass him back to thief upon reaching a chapter with chests? It didn't feel like being expressive with your units, it felt like deploying units in an Advance Wars game. Plus the paralogue chapters have a downright offensive criteria to unlock. If you have less than X amount of units, you can get the paralogues in order to recruit more, substitute characters. Choices don't matter, only how bad you are at the game.

There are more gripes people shared for this game. And like I said, a lot of people are starting to hate it less these days. But when news of FE12 not getting an international release hit us, we accepted the death of the series and only Shadow Dragon felt right to blame.

. . .if you're going to diss Shadow Dragon, at least do it right.  Thieves can't reclass.  Class growths meant that certain units wanted to level in certain classes.  Certain characters had hilarious results when reclassed (Wendell the Swordmaster is one).  There's some small dialogue between certain characters, if they're both deployed.

As for the topic. . .why does it matter?  In the end, it's a preference for a video game character, which has a very negligible impact in the grand scheme of things.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

24 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .if you're going to diss Shadow Dragon, at least do it right.  Thieves can't reclass.  

 

Ah! You're right. I only played the game start to finish once on release, so forgive the hazy details. I'll look to you for proper dissing of Shadow Dragon in the future.

[Flee Fleet!]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

So I saw the results of the votes and I'm shocked that Roy made it second instead of say...oh idk, MARTH?!?!?

Now this really begs me the question, how the hell is Roy more popular than Marth when you consider the fact that.

1. Marth has miles of a better character development than Roy.

2. Marth has made more appearances than Roy

3. Marth is a more balanced and a PROPER unit in both FE and Smash?

I just don't get the point as to why a lot of people seem to favor Roy over Marth. Its just plain odd...

 

It's because Roy's considered smart.

 

Well, that's what me and most others say.

 

 

Whereas Marth's a blue guy who's way too kind about everything.

[Shin]

Roy has his fair share of fans from Smash and people who've played FE6. I was a little surprised to see Roy so high, it makes sense, but I'd thought he'd make the top 10!

[Azz]

Because people like different things and maybe there are more people that like Roy over Marth.

It's pretty simple really.

Also, opinions how one character's personality/usability in an FE game is pretty subjective. I mean, I love Tharja's characters, meanwhile a lot of people don't, and I find Wendy to be an okay unit, based on my experience. So yeah...

[Magical Glace]

7 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Keep in mind Marth's votes got divided between his two games, though I don't remember if that put him ahead.  Part of it is that Marth is kind of boring and generic, at least in the games that we got in the West.

Even with the votes combined, Marth is 4th, behind Ike, Roy, and Hector.

As for why I like Roy more than Marth, reading Roy's supports honestly gives a much clearer picture of his whole character, while Marth never had that.  There's also the way FE11's plot was set up, there wasn't a lot of interchapter dialogue.  

Also I honestly consider FE11 Marth worse than Roy gameplaywise, but that's just me.  

Also the Roy/Wolt support is best and stuff like that.

[Jave]

When comparing Marth and Roy, I guess a lot of people prefer the "Cool Kid" over the "Pretty Prince" archetype.

Also, Marth canonically marries one woman. Roy was the original Harem Lord.

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .if you're going to diss Shadow Dragon, at least do it right.  Thieves can't reclass.  Class growths meant that certain units wanted to level in certain classes.  Certain characters had hilarious results when reclassed (Wendell the Swordmaster is one).  There's some small dialogue between certain characters, if they're both deployed.

As for the topic. . .why does it matter?  In the end, it's a preference for a video game character, which has a very negligible impact in the grand scheme of things.

It matters because its a confusing matter. When you compare characters who are just the same with one having better personality than the other and the fact that Marth's appearance is the main key that FE was born, its a known thing that Marth has to atleast come there atleast from 1-5.

Actually, I'm really puzzled how Ike came on top in the first place considering how PoR is criticized badly in Japan and that it bombed so hard.

1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Even with the votes combined, Marth is 4th, behind Ike, Roy, and Hector.

As for why I like Roy more than Marth, reading Roy's supports honestly gives a much clearer picture of his whole character, while Marth never had that.  There's also the way FE11's plot was set up, there wasn't a lot of interchapter dialogue.  

Also I honestly consider FE11 Marth worse than Roy gameplaywise, but that's just me.  

Also the Roy/Wolt support is best and stuff like that.

I'll agree that some of Roy's supports are good. But you can't compare Roy and Marth because of that because support conversations weren't introduced at the time and doing that on the remake wasn't a possibility as well.

24 minutes ago, Jave said:

Also, Marth canonically marries one woman. Roy was the original Harem Lord.

You make it sound like child marriage is the coolest thing ever....:P

 

[Limstella]

Smash wise, Roy stands out among the sea of blue hair. His animations are also much more interesting/flashy than Marth's with the fire effects.

[Jave]

24 minutes ago, Harvey said:

You make it sound like child marriage is the coolest thing ever....:P

 

Who says Roy isn't already an adult by the time he marries?

[Rezzy]

Adding supports was a possibility for SD, they just chose not to.

[Jave]

18 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Adding supports was a possibility for SD, they just chose not to.

Heck, they added them in FE12, along with base convos.

[Etria]

Wait, don't tell me different people have different tastes. Say it ain't so.

Also (green hair>)red hair> blue hair