Would you want another Chameleon unit in a future FE game?

[Extrasolar]

So earlier today, I was thinking of the possible inclusion of Xane in Heroes (and I have intensely mixed feelings about that no two Hectors or two Takumis please), and I started wondering if we'd ever see anything like him in a future FE game.

Having a clone of a unit of your choice provides a lot of strategic possibilities and can give the gameplay more depth, and Xane himself was definitely a unique mechanic in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery.

Perhaps for balance's sake, I would implement a gauge similar to the laguz gauge of the Tellius games, where Xane 2.0 could only stay transformed for a certain amount of time before forcibly reverting to his helpeless base form. That way, you couldn't just clone your Ryoma 2.0 for an infinite amount of time and faceroll everything. If you were to include the class in a future game, what sort of changes would you make to it?

So I'm curious. For everyone who played Shadow Dragon and/or New Mystery, did you use Xane? What did you use him for, and did you generally like having him around? Would you like having another Chameleon unit sometime in the future?

Edited March 11, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

So earlier today, I was thinking of the possible inclusion of Xane in Heroes (and I have intensely mixed feelings about that no two Hectors or two Takumis please), and I started wondering if we'd ever see anything like him in a future FE game.

Having a clone of a unit of your choice provides a lot of strategic possibilities and can give the gameplay more depth, and Xane himself was definitely a unique mechanic in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery.

Perhaps for balance's sake, I would implement a gauge similar to the laguz gauge of the Tellius games, where Xane 2.0 could only stay transformed for a certain amount of time before forcibly reverting to his helpeless base form. That way, you couldn't just clone your Ryoma 2.0 for an infinite amount of time and faceroll everything. If you were to include the class in a future game, what sort of changes would you make to it?

So I'm curious. For everyone who played Shadow Dragon and/or New Mystery, did you use Xane? What did you use him for, and did you generally like having him around? Would you like having another Chameleon unit sometime in the future?

It's not a visible gauge but Xane does indeed revert back after a few turns. Personally I generally used him as a third Ballista whenever I wanted long range support. You only get two in the game, it's a useful class and it leaves little to no risk of him reverting back to base form while in danger of getting hit by the enemy.

 

As for seeing more, yes, definitely. I'd love to see another Chameleon, not only for the potential strategic element but also for the story. I'd love to see Chameleons as a full on race of and spies. There's a lot of potential for some great twists there. It's honestly baffled me that they had this great idea in the very first game and have only ever revisited it in remakes and direct sequels.

[Dragrath]

Hmm I don't really think it would work out all that well namely due to the limit and range it just doesn't seem worth the effort to add

On the other hand shapeshifters could do interesting story effects. Or lead to fun gameplay situations especially if the copying could work on enemies ;)

The real problem is that Replicate does everything they do but better making it seem to be the modern version of the copy concept.

If shape shifters were to return I would have to hope they could do their thing on enemies as well or it might be a bit weak...

Also if the turn count is limited The unit should hopefully copy the inventory/skill set of the original as otherwise they would be back line material...(If memory serves Xane needed an appropriate weapon in his inventory to do anything)

[Extrasolar]

26 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's not a visible gauge but Xane does indeed revert back after a few turns. Personally I generally used him as a third Ballista whenever I wanted long range support. You only get two in the game, it's a useful class and it leaves little to no risk of him reverting back to base form while in danger of getting hit by the enemy.

Ah, that's right. I'd forgotten about this, since I never used him in my SD playthroughs. Thanks for correcting me.
 

8 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

On the other hand shapeshifters could do interesting story effects. Or lead to fun gameplay situations especially if the copying could work on enemies ;)

This could be an interesting thing introduced, but for the most part with enemies you're fighting, you already have access to members of their class (and yours are probably better). Unless you mean turning into bosses?

Maybe the Chameleon could turn into a defeated boss or something? That would be kind of cool.

10 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

Also if the turn count is limited The unit should hopefully copy the inventory/skill set of the original as otherwise they would be back line material...(If memory serves Xane needed an appropriate weapon in his inventory to do anything)

I'd actually keep this requirement just for logic's sake. I mean, they're shapeshifting, but can't spontaneously create weapons...unless that's part of the lore, too. I guess you could easily say they harness some sort of magical aether to create fake magic weapons to use while they're shifting (I mean, iirc, Xane sponatenously pops a horse out of nowhere if he copies a cavalier, so...)
 

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

As for seeing more, yes, definitely. I'd love to see another Chameleon, not only for the potential strategic element but also for the story. I'd love to see Chameleons as a full on race of and spies. There's a lot of potential for some great twists there. It's honestly baffled me that they had this great idea in the very first game and have only ever revisited it in remakes and direct sequels.

I really like this idea! An entire race of shapeshifters in a world would be a pretty cool thing, especially in the potential for drama it creates (can you trust x? How do you know he's not a Chameleon spy leading you into a trap...?)

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dragrath said:

Hmm I don't really think it would work out all that well namely due to the limit and range it just doesn't seem worth the effort to add

On the other hand shapeshifters could do interesting story effects. Or lead to fun gameplay situations especially if the copying could work on enemies ;)

The real problem is that Replicate does everything they do but better making it seem to be the modern version of the copy concept.

If shape shifters were to return I would have to hope they could do their thing on enemies as well or it might be a bit weak...

Also if the turn count is limited The unit should hopefully copy the inventory/skill set of the original as otherwise they would be back line material...(If memory serves Xane needed an appropriate weapon in his inventory to do anything)

Copying the inventory is a bit broken. As it is  a chameleon already gives you a second copy of your best unit with practically no investment. There's has to be limiting factors like a weapon loss or untimely reverting. I wouldn't object them to copying the current HP of the unit in question though. Or at least work out some kind of percentage copy so you don't always need to heal them on their first turn. Showing the gauge or number to turns before the unit reverts would be helpful too rather than being forced to count how long its been since you last used mimic.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

I wouldn't call Replicate better than a Chameleon. Sure, a Ryoma replicant is awesome, but not so much if you want one dodgetank a bunch of Lances with a Dual Katana, and a bunch of Axes and Bows with Rajinto on the same enemy phase. Plus, for standard tanks which will take damage, because a Chameleon has its own separate HP, they work better, because Replicate would double the damage taken by the one tank, but not their HP.

I think one of the reasons we haven't seen a Chameleon again is because of Dancers. And I'm not talking about endless refreshing (which IS doesn't allow in FE3 or 12). Rather, a Dancer and a Chameleon alike give you a second action with a unit basically.

However, there are differences in the way the two are handled. A Dancer can choose a new unit to have act again every turn, whereas a Chameleon needs a turn to transform before they can act, and another turn if they wish to swap what unit they mimic. A Chameleon also has superior enemy phase applications by giving you two units, whereas the Dancer has greater player phase potential with the ability to move one unit twice (doubling that 1 unit's movement range) instead of two units once (each restricted to standard movement range). A Dancer needs no weaponry to function, a Chameleon needs their own weapons. A Dancer needs protection, whereas with the right mimicking, the Chameleon can protect itself.

There is certainly room for bring back Chameleons, and I wouldn't mind it personally. Another awesome utility bot is always nifty.

Also, concerning their potential role on the plot- isn't there a whole mini-drama concerning shapeshifting Delfinians in XBCX? (I need to get back and beat C11 and 12.)

[NekoKnight]

Xane was okay. I used him to get a second Minerva but I don't think I'd really care about never seeing them again. They provide some interesting story options, but I think a character who can take anyone's form would need more limitations (such as Anankos only being able to fully control people who are dead) to make it not broken.

[Dragrath]

16 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Ah, that's right. I'd forgotten about this, since I never used him in my SD playthroughs. Thanks for correcting me.
 

This could be an interesting thing introduced, but for the most part with enemies you're fighting, you already have access to members of their class (and yours are probably better). Unless you mean turning into bosses?

Maybe the Chameleon could turn into a defeated boss or something? That would be kind of cool.

I'd actually keep this requirement just for logic's sake. I mean, they're shapeshifting, but can't spontaneously create weapons...unless that's part of the lore, too. I guess you could easily say they harness some sort of magical aether to create fake magic weapons to use while they're shifting (I mean, iirc, Xane sponatenously pops a horse out of nowhere if he copies a cavalier, so...)
 

I really like this idea! An entire race of shapeshifters in a world would be a pretty cool thing, especially in the potential for drama it creates (can you trust x? How do you know he's not a Chameleon spy leading you into a trap...?)

Hmm how about a chameleon that could take the form of enemies they killed sort of like a shape stealer That could be a fun variation on the concept (Obviously there would have to be a limit on stolen transformations) They would probably be mostly an enemy only race with perhaps one token member

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Copying the inventory is a bit broken. As it is  a chameleon already gives you a second copy of your best unit with practically no investment. There's has to be limiting factors like a weapon loss or untimely reverting. I wouldn't object them to copying the current HP of the unit in question though. Or at least work out some kind of percentage copy so you don't always need to heal them on their first turn. Showing the gauge or number to turns before the unit reverts would be helpful too rather than being forced to count how long its been since you last used mimic.

Ah I was mainly referring to monster weapons and the like... >_< Perhaps the copying would be just exclusive to inhuman weapons? If weapons were to be "copied" they would probably have to be weaker...

Theory crafting from Scratch perhaps there could be special weapons for mimicing units that shift to a corresponding "standard" version of whatever weapon the copied unit would use They could come in E, D, C, B etc. variations of the copied units equipped Weapon with anything outside of those having to be prepared in advance. Basically some kind of "Morph Stone"...

[Extrasolar]

4 hours ago, Dragrath said:

Hmm how about a chameleon that could take the form of enemies they killed sort of like a shape stealer That could be a fun variation on the concept (Obviously there would have to be a limit on stolen transformations) They would probably be mostly an enemy only race with perhaps one token member

Hmm... That could be interesting as a race, definitely. Though I'm confused as to what you mean - would the Chameleon constantly shift into the enemies that it killed, so you couldn't stay in one form for longer, and would immediately swap? Or would it be like a menu selection of different downed enemies you could choose to turn into?

Personally, I like the idea of 'saving' the forms of bosses in a similar way to how some summons work in some RPGs. They'd be the more powerful of the forms the Chameleon could take, but of course they'd be limited by the timer or energy gauge. 

I imagine the Chameleon class wouldn't promote, but would have roughly 30 levels of growth to compensate. But then again, we could have them promote in a similar way that Wolfskin and Kitsune do. Maybe something like Chameleon --> Doppelgänger, or something like that.

Actually, that's kind of a cool concept for a chapter. You'd fight a bunch of Chameleons that would take on the forms of your party members, meaning you'd have to adapt your strategies to beat the team you raised (kind of similar to Radiant Dawn switching perspective and forcing you to fight either the Greil Mercenaries or the Dawn Brigade units). I liked it when it was done in RD (for the most part...praying that the Greil Mercenaries didn't reach you before the chapter was over if you were the Dawn Brigade...)

I was thinking the same thing with a single playable 'good' Chameleon of the bunch. I imagine he'd (picturing someone very similar to Xane) be the black sheep of his race - a cheerful, scatterbrained kind of guy rather than the sneaky, sought after spies of the main race. As a bonus, he'd be the runaway prince of the tribe because he doesn't agree with his evil father's ruling ways.

They'd be widely sought after as spies and infiltrators for 'bad' kingdoms. The story ideas are numerous.

4 hours ago, Dragrath said:

Theory crafting from Scratch perhaps there could be special weapons for mimicing units that shift to a corresponding "standard" version of whatever weapon the copied unit would use They could come in E, D, C, B etc. variations of the copied units equipped Weapon with anything outside of those having to be prepared in advance. Basically some kind of "Morph Stone"...

So you're saying they'd have special Chameleon-only weapons that they you would have to buy or find for them to use when transformed? Just trying to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying.

[Dragrath]

55 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Hmm... That could be interesting as a race, definitely. Though I'm confused as to what you mean - would the Chameleon constantly shift into the enemies that it killed, so you couldn't stay in one form for longer, and would immediately swap? Or would it be like a menu selection of different downed enemies you could choose to turn into?

Personally, I like the idea of 'saving' the forms of bosses in a similar way to how some summons work in some RPGs. They'd be the more powerful of the forms the Chameleon could take, but of course they'd be limited by the timer or energy gauge. 

I imagine the Chameleon class wouldn't promote, but would have roughly 30 levels of growth to compensate. But then again, we could have them promote in a similar way that Wolfskin and Kitsune do. Maybe something like Chameleon --> Doppelgänger, or something like that.

Actually, that's kind of a cool concept for a chapter. You'd fight a bunch of Chameleons that would take on the forms of your party members, meaning you'd have to adapt your strategies to beat the team you raised (kind of similar to Radiant Dawn switching perspective and forcing you to fight either the Greil Mercenaries or the Dawn Brigade units). I liked it when it was done in RD (for the most part...praying that the Greil Mercenaries didn't reach you before the chapter was over if you were the Dawn Brigade...)

I was thinking the same thing with a single playable 'good' Chameleon of the bunch. I imagine he'd (picturing someone very similar to Xane) be the black sheep of his race - a cheerful, scatterbrained kind of guy rather than the sneaky, sought after spies of the main race. As a bonus, he'd be the runaway prince of the tribe because he doesn't agree with his evil father's ruling ways.

They'd be widely sought after as spies and infiltrators for 'bad' kingdoms. The story ideas are numerous.

So you're saying they'd have special Chameleon-only weapons that they you would have to buy or find for them to use when transformed? Just trying to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying.

-The idea was they gain the transformation without losing a current one. The though would be through a menu(the con being they would have  limit to the number of forms

-And for the weapons yes exactly special Chameleon only weapons though they could still use "regular" weapons for the copied classes.

i.e. Lets say they have a D ranked morphing weapon and transform into a Armored Knight. Their main weapon would correspondingly change  into the form of an Iron(or steel in the older games) Lance but If They had a Javilin pre-transformation they could use that too. Does this resolve the confusion?

[Jotari]

So obviously stats aren't really all that important in Chameleons (except HP so far), but I reckon in order to make actualising them an investment of some sort, their ability to copy units should be dependent on their level. Either make it so they can't copy units that are a higher level than them, or the amount of turns they can maintain a transformation is reduced when copying a higher level unit (and subsequently the amount of time they can maintain a transformation is increased the lower the level of the unit in question).

[Extrasolar]

3 hours ago, Dragrath said:

-And for the weapons yes exactly special Chameleon only weapons though they could still use "regular" weapons for the copied classes.

So how would the special Chameleon weapons differ from the regular weapons? Why would be the benefits or drawbacks to just using the Chameleon weapons rather than just  the normal weapons? Would these weapons be purchasable like Dragonstones/Beaststones in Awakening and Fates, or would they be rarer?

3 hours ago, Dragrath said:

i.e. Lets say they have a D ranked morphing weapon and transform into a Armored Knight. Their main weapon would correspondingly change  into the form of an Iron(or steel in the older games) Lance but If They had a Javilin pre-transformation they could use that too. Does this resolve the confusion?

Oh, so you're saying the Chameleon Weapons would be able to change their form too, depending on what form the Chameleon takes! That's a pretty interesting idea imo, if I'm understanding this correctly?
 

26 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So obviously stats aren't really all that important in Chameleons (except HP so far), but I reckon in order to make actualising them an investment of some sort, their ability to copy units should be dependent on their level. Either make it so they can't copy units that are a higher level than them, or the amount of turns they can maintain a transformation is reduced when copying a higher level unit (and subsequently the amount of time they can maintain a transformation is increased the lower the level of the unit in question).

Yeah, I'd go with what they do in the series already as far as untransformed stats (in that they'd be pretty poor across the board, with the possible exception of luck, which might allow them to dodge a hit or two when untransformed). I was thinking that if we went with Chameleon promotions, Chameleons (first tier) would only be able to copy first-tier classes, while Doppelgängers (second tier) could transform into second-tier classes. As for a turn limit. Though I'm not sure what I'd set the transformation timer at...

Maybe there'd be a special and rare item, similar to the laguz grass or something, that would allow the Chameleon to stay in transformed form for the entire map, or immediately allow them to transform without wasting an entire turn to do so.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Dragrath]

12 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

So how would the special Chameleon weapons differ from the regular weapons? Why would be the benefits or drawbacks to just using the Chameleon weapons rather than just  the normal weapons? Would these weapons be purchasable like Dragonstones/Beaststones in Awakening and Fates, or would they be rarer?

Oh, so you're saying the Chameleon Weapons would be able to change their form too, depending on what form the Chameleon takes! That's a pretty interesting idea imo, if I'm understanding this correctly?
 

Yeah, I'd go with what they do in the series already as far as untransformed stats (in that they'd be pretty poor across the board, with the possible exception of luck, which might allow them to dodge a hit or two when untransformed). I was thinking that if we went with Chameleon promotions, Chameleons (first tier) would only be able to copy first-tier classes, while Doppelgängers (second tier) could transform into second-tier classes. As for a turn limit. Though I'm not sure what I'd set the transformation timer at...

Maybe there'd be a special and rare item, similar to the laguz grass or something, that would allow the Chameleon to stay in transformed form for the entire map, or immediately allow them to transform without wasting an entire turn to do so.

Yep the Chameleon weapons would change form with the transformation in theory. The idea is to allow more versatility though they would have a few drawbacks.

-Rarity-You couldn't just buy more after all they aren't exactly a friendly group... The unit would probably come with either the E and or D rank variant based on join time, Where as any better grades or special variations would have to come from elsewhere either as rare treasure or ripped from the cold dead hands of other Chameleons...

A key detail of note The weapons would determine what to transform into based on the following criteria.

-They shift into Equipped weapon at time of copying the target. This means when copying the unit pay attention to what they have equipped! If  the target you want to copy has a sword and a Lance and you want the chameleon weapon to become a lance then make sure the ally or enemy in question has equipped the lance before copying them!

-The only question would be if for future stored transformations (probably through a skill or item) it could be set to "update" the form based on changes. 

 

Now Statwise The idea crossed my mind what if certain stats impacted the transformation (length, recharge rate etc.)? It feels wrong for all the stats to have no meaning to me(though lack of offenses and defenses are given)

-Skill-affects duration of transformation Say the duration is either (skill/2 )=turns transformation lasts(possibly with a fixed modifier?)

-Speed-affect how quickly a transformation gauge replenishes?

And as for luck how about they don't copy that stat? Sort of as the token flaw that reveals their true nature :D

 

[Extrasolar]

20 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

-Rarity-You couldn't just buy more after all they aren't exactly a friendly group... The unit would probably come with either the E and or D rank variant based on join time, Where as any better grades or special variations would have to come from elsewhere either as rare treasure or ripped from the cold dead hands of other Chameleons...

I like this a lot. It only makes sense, and having to steal from the dead bodies of enemy Chameleons is dark in a lot of good ways, lol. I would go so far as to say the only S/SS rank Chameleon weapon would be in the hands of the evil Chameleon king, and killing him would pass it on to the playable Chameleon, after an appropriately emotional scene. Maybe that weapon would have an extra special property, like letting him stay transformed for double the time, being able to switch into any weapon (so long as the Chameleon was transformed into something capable of wielding it), or something similar.
 

22 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

-They shift into Equipped weapon at time of copying the target. This means when copying the unit pay attention to what they have equipped! If  the target you want to copy has a sword and a Lance and you want the chameleon weapon to become a lance then make sure the ally or enemy in question has equipped the lance before copying them!

This is a great one. I can only imagine when hilarity ensues.

*uses Chameleon to copy bishop to try to get the light magic...and ends up with a staff instead. whoops.*
 

16 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

-Skill-affects duration of transformation Say the duration is either (skill/2 )=turns transformation lasts(possibly with a fixed modifier?)

I like this idea. As skill goes up on the playable Chameleon, it's tied with him leaning to master his transformation power and the energy that it burns more. Makes sense in lore and is a cool mechanic that gives the player satisfaction that he's gotten stronger when he can spend longer transformed the later the game goes. But he'd definitely need to start with a good skill base, and have a good skill growth. 2 on the modifier sounds good to me.
 

14 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

-Speed-affect how quickly a transformation gauge replenishes?

I don't know about this one, as I've always seen Speed in-game representing a unit's reflexes and agility. I don't see how being more agile would make the gauge replenish faster. Not sure what I would use instead, as I would make it run off of stamina...which doesn't really exist in FE. Strength is there, but it's...not quite a perfect parallel.
 

14 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

And as for luck how about they don't copy that stat? Sort of as the token flaw that reveals their true nature :D

Yeah, I was thinking along these lines. Though... I'm not sure whether I want them to have high luck in the vein of Herons, Dancers and Bards, etc., or low luck... Leaning towards high just to give the player a little leeway if they get attacked untransformed, but I guess this all depends on the lore, whether or not they're 'favored' by the gods, or whatnot. I see them as Trickster-esque spirit figures, so I think high luck would be better.

[Dragrath]

5 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

I like this a lot. It only makes sense, and having to steal from the dead bodies of enemy Chameleons is dark in a lot of good ways, lol. I would go so far as to say the only S/SS rank Chameleon weapon would be in the hands of the evil Chameleon king, and killing him would pass it on to the playable Chameleon, after an appropriately emotional scene. Maybe that weapon would have an extra special property, like letting him stay transformed for double the time, being able to switch into any weapon (so long as the Chameleon was transformed into something capable of wielding it), or something similar.
 

This is a great one. I can only imagine when hilarity ensues.

*uses Chameleon to copy bishop to try to get the light magic...and ends up with a staff instead. whoops.*
 

I like this idea. As skill goes up on the playable Chameleon, it's tied with him leaning to master his transformation power and the energy that it burns more. Makes sense in lore and is a cool mechanic that gives the player satisfaction that he's gotten stronger when he can spend longer transformed the later the game goes. But he'd definitely need to start with a good skill base, and have a good skill growth. 2 on the modifier sounds good to me.
 

I don't know about this one, as I've always seen Speed in-game representing a unit's reflexes and agility. I don't see how being more agile would make the gauge replenish faster. Not sure what I would use instead, as I would make it run off of stamina...which doesn't really exist in FE. Strength is there, but it's...not quite a perfect parallel.
 

Yeah, I was thinking along these lines. Though... I'm not sure whether I want them to have high luck in the vein of Herons, Dancers and Bards, etc., or low luck... Leaning towards high just to give the player a little leeway if they get attacked untransformed, but I guess this all depends on the lore, whether or not they're 'favored' by the gods, or whatnot. I see them as Trickster-esque spirit figures, so I think high luck would be better.

Yeah The idea that came to me was really in regards to the skill stat. I just couldn't figure out what to use for the second one... Hmm seeing a speed is tied to avoiding doubling... maybe Magic? (I mean a transformation ability is clearly part magic...) That seems like it works better than speed... What do you think?

As for Luck I would say probably best less than Dancers/Bards/Singers(henceforth just called performers) but more than your average soldier no need to pull from the extremes here.

Now for the issue regarding performers how about performers can't perform for performers?

 

[Extrasolar]

13 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

Yeah The idea that came to me was really in regards to the skill stat. I just couldn't figure out what to use for the second one... Hmm seeing a speed is tied to avoiding doubling... maybe Magic? (I mean a transformation ability is clearly part magic...) That seems like it works better than speed... What do you think?

As for Luck I would say probably best less than Dancers/Bards/Singers(henceforth just called performers) but more than your average soldier no need to pull from the extremes here.

Now for the issue regarding performers how about performers can't perform for performers?

 

Magic makes sense...but then again, they'd also need high strength if they're copying physical units and using physical weapons (Unless we'd have their magic substitute for their strength in those cases, since they're using magical power to assume the form in the first place, they could also use it to increase their 'strength' while transformed.) If that's the case, I'd be all for magic.

My idea with the high luck is that they'd be manipulating their own fate magically in order to protect themselves as much as possible. Like, limited-scale reality warpers (kind of how their powers work in the first place). But yeah, we don't want to make it high enough that they dodge all that regularly when they're untransformed, since timing the transformations is important.

So the statspread would look something like this while untransformed:
HP - Low
STR - Low
MAG - High
DEF: Low
SKL: High
SPD: Low
LCK - Decent to high
RES - Decent to high; they can function as magic tanks untransformed, due to how much they use magic anyway

All stats except luck (should they copy HP or not?) change when transformed.
 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Dragrath]

47 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Magic makes sense...but then again, they'd also need high strength if they're copying physical units and using physical weapons (Unless we'd have their magic substitute for their strength in those cases, since they're using magical power to assume the form in the first place, they could also use it to increase their 'strength' while transformed.) If that's the case, I'd be all for magic.

My idea with the high luck is that they'd be manipulating their own fate magically in order to protect themselves as much as possible. Like, limited-scale reality warpers (kind of how their powers work in the first place). But yeah, we don't want to make it high enough that they dodge all that regularly when they're untransformed, since timing the transformations is important.

So the statspread would look something like this while untransformed:
HP - Low
STR - Low
MAG - High
DEF: Low
SKL: High
SPD: Low
LCK - Decent to high
RES - Decent to high; they can function as magic tanks untransformed, due to how much they use magic anyway

All stats except luck (should they copy HP or not?) change when transformed.
 

Sounds good to me though I don't think HP should change as that would mean their total vitality changed in combat which seems weird...

HP - low->moderate 
STR - Low(replaced when transformed)
MAG - High; used to determine the rate of transformation replenishment(replaced when transformed)
DEF: Low(replaced when transformed)
SKL: High; Untransformed stat Determines duration(replaced when transformed)
SPD: Low(replaced when transformed)
LCK - Decent to high
RES - Decent to high; they can function as magic tanks untransformed, due to how much they use magic anyway (replaced when transformed)

This makes sense to me lorewise from what we have set up here.