Guy

[_____]

I don't think that's Guy's fault though. I mean, Hard Hard Mode (HHM) is Hard Hard Mode for a reason. You might just have to put his supports and give him a killing edge in order to make use of him.

Sure it's not very reliable of him, but you can't really hold it against him. At least he survives. Unless of course he doesn't survive.

It's Hector Hard Mode, not Hard Hard Mode.

[Just call me AL]

Talk of Guy goes in here. Anything goes. That also includes personal experiences.

Here's mine:

Guy is great, in the normal modes and EHM. He's able to one-round alot of units for a long time.

But, from personal experience, he is not so great in HHM. He is great until the early 20 chapters. That's when the enemies defenses are rising faster than Guy's strength, which is bad. He was not able to one round anything unless they were a magic unit, or he managed to pull off a critical with the ~30% crit rate he often had. I see this as unreliable, and to constantly have his supports close by just so he can have a higher crit rate seems more of a hindrance than a help. Other units are one-rounding enemies without supports, and pwning anything with supports in range, while Guy needs his supports and a Killing Edge for a better chance to pull a critical and one-round anything. To me, he begins to become a hindrance in the second half of HHM, just after the first time you visit the Dragon's Gate, and so I drop him. Any other mode, he is a great help for practically the whole game, but I don't think that HHM is the place for Guy. Not with his 30% Str growth rate. He just can't keep up, not without his Killing Edge and supports, which he heavily relies on for a good chance of owning a HHM enemy.

Opinions? Who agrees? Who doesn't? Let's hear it all.

You said nothing I don't agree with. Guy turned out O.K. for me, but I don't feel like he's elite material.

[Meteor]

His 30% Str growth does not mean he's less likely to be blessed.

Subjective

That's why he backs it up.

[Florete]

That's why he backs it up.

With that statement alone, it wasn't backed up so well.

He's obviously the best SM in the game; Karel and Karla both suck. That doesn't mean he's great.

[Judge Judy]

With that statement alone, it wasn't backed up so well.

He's obviously the best SM in the game; Karel and Karla both suck. That doesn't mean he's great.

Of course he is great, well for me anyway.

[Tino]

Let's stick to this: On average, he's great. One of the best HHM characters. For some people, he just turns out so great.

If you want to debate whether Guy is good or not, fine, but then I don't want to get this "but he turned out bad for me" stuff thrown at me.

[Florete]

Let's stick to this: On average, he's great. One of the best HHM characters. For some people, he just turns out so great.

If you want to debate whether Guy is good or not, fine, but then I don't want to get this "but he turned out bad for me" stuff thrown at me.

Point is, he's only great as long as he has his supports. That's not good enough for me. He can't fend for himself well enough, so he's not great in my eyes. Good, but not great.

[Tino]

Supports are always easy to keep up with. They give him an 75~98% chance to kill something in one round. I call that great.

[Judge Judy]

"but he turned out bad for me" stuff thrown at me.

Well its to do with personal experience. There is really no right and wrong answer.

[Florete]

Supports are always easy to keep up with. They give him an 75~98% chance to kill something in one round. I call that great.

I'm sure they do, but the problems stand. He must build them first. He'd better be getting A Matthew/ B Priscilla because he isn't getting A Priscilla. These will both take about 80 turns. His supports won't be full until maybe the mid twenties, where most units shouldn't be needing supports so badly. These are kickass supports, but if he strays away from them, or they stray from him, he's stranded. This will happen on occasion. I still stand saying units that are great without needing supports > units that are greater from supports.

[Tino]

units that are great without needing supports > units that are greater from supports

Units that are great without supports and help nobody < Units that are great with supprts and actually help one or two other units

This assuming that both "greats" are exactly equal.

[Florete]

Units that are great without supports and help nobody < Units that are great with supprts and actually help one or two other units

This assuming that both "greats" are exactly equal.

I must disagree. Great units don't need supports, so the supports can be left for those who need it more, but this also forces you to be sure they are next to each other, building it up. A lot of characters in this game need no supports to be great, and Guy isn't one of them. You must consider how a unit fares when alone.

[Tino]

Unit A who has supports is great, but this means that this unit A also makes two other characters more valuable than before.

Unit B who has no supports is great, but he makes nobody else more valuable than before.

Unit A with supports makes three good units (Unit A and his supports partners). Unit B makes only one (himself).

[Meteor]

Guy's 29 Skill, +15 Crit class bonus, and an active B support with any unit will give him 39 crit, enough to make his odds of at least one crit higher than no crits (I'm assuming he doubles). He doesn't need both Matt and Prissy to be close; either will suffice, and that's if he even needs to crit.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Meteor

[Florete]

Unit A who has supports is great, but this means that this unit A also makes two other characters more valuable than before.

Unit B who has no supports is great, but he makes nobody else more valuable than before.

Unit A with supports makes three good units (Unit A and his supports partners). Unit B makes only one (himself).

Unit A

Pros:

Helping others

Being made great by others

Cons:

Relies on others

Can't be trusted to stray too far (Meh, those are kind of the same)

Unit B

Pros:

Already great/Not relying on anyone

Can be dropped for a chapter or two if room is needed

Can be dropped for the entire game without any real loss if stat screwed

Can stray off alone for a bit if needed

Can become even better with the help of another

Cons:

Not aiding anyone else.

Unit A's pros can turn into his cons. Unit B doesn't have any real cons in him/herself, just the s/he isn't boosting anyone else.

[Swordsalmon]

With that statement alone, it wasn't backed up so well.

He's obviously the best SM in the game; Karel and Karla both suck. That doesn't mean he's great.

Except he's Top Tier material. -_-

I must disagree. Great units don't need supports, so the supports can be left for those who need it more, but this also forces you to be sure they are next to each other, building it up. A lot of characters in this game need no supports to be great, and Guy isn't one of them. You must consider how a unit fares when alone.

False. Every one of the best combat characters, sans Miledy and Percival, are only so high because of supports that boost stats. If you're going supportless, you are that much weaker.

Let's look at say, Raven. He has incredible offense; actually second-best in the game. He's a great character that has a huge weakness; no supports. Raven's Avoid and Defense are that much lower, making him inferior to characters with supports, such as Lowen.

And even Miledy and Percival are hindered. As both have bad supports, they aren't benefitting other characters. Lance and Alan are both benfitting each-other and Roy, which is very useful to all three. Percival and Miledy usually cannot to that.

[Florete]

Except he's Top Tier material. -_-

Still subjective. Remember that tiers mean nothing to me.

False. Every one of the best combat characters, sans Miledy and Percival, are only so high because of supports that boost stats. If you're going supportless, you are that much weaker.

Let's look at say, Raven. He has incredible offense; actually second-best in the game. He's a great character that has a huge weakness; no supports. Raven's Avoid and Defense are that much lower, making him inferior to characters with supports, such as Lowen.

And even Miledy and Percival are hindered. As both have bad supports, they aren't benefitting other characters. Lance and Alan are both benfitting each-other and Roy, which is very useful to all three. Percival and Miledy usually cannot to that.

It's not so bad if you're already great.

He has Priscilla and Lucius, possibly a B Rebecca. Not the greatest bonuses, but he doesn't need them anyway. Look at my previous post.

Also, you guys should try a supportless game and see how things turn out.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire

[Tino]

Still subjective. Remember that tiers mean nothing to me.

It's not so bad if you're already great.

He has Priscilla and Lucius, possibly a B Rebecca. Not the greatest bonuses, but he doesn't need them anyway. Look at my previous post.

Also, you guys should try a supportless game and see how things turn out.

Priscilla has Erk and Guy. Lucius has Serra and might snatch a B Raven. That's it.

[Meteor]

Care you about tiers or not, Guy is still a good character.

Raven is the only unit in the game that your argument is good for. (Not including Athos)

[Reikken]

Priscilla has Erk and Guy. Lucius has Serra and might snatch an A Raven. That's it.

fix'd

Also, you guys should try a supportless game and see how things turn out.

a bit harder than it needs to be is how it turns out

Edited October 22, 2008 by Reikken

[Swordsalmon]

Still subjective. Remember that tiers mean nothing to me.

It's not so bad if you're already great.

He has Priscilla and Lucius, possibly a B Rebecca. Not the greatest bonuses, but he doesn't need them anyway. Look at my previous post.

Also, you guys should try a supportless game and see how things turn out.

Don't bother posting here, then. >__<

Yet Guy is still better.

Priscilla wants Erk A, Guy B and Lucius isn't be fielded due to promotion issues. Rebecca is a Mid Tier average Sniper, and she's better with Lowen A, Sain B.

I've done so before. :o

[Tino]

I honestly even doubt Rebecca deserves Mid Tier.

[Reikken]

Rebecca is at least mid tier. Certainly not any lower, but not any higher either, due to class issues.

Priscilla wants Erk A, Guy B and Lucius isn't be fielded due to promotion issues. Rebecca is a Mid Tier average Sniper, and she's better with Lowen A, Sain B.

You act like everyone uses the exact same team every time they play the game.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Reikken

[Raven]

Don't bother posting here, then. >__<

Anything goes here. I made it that way. If you don't like it, you should stop posting here.

[Swordsalmon]

You act like everyone uses the exact same team every time they play the game.

Well, Serra, Erk, and Priscilla are all better than Lucius and the first two have a level advantage, so it's more likely they promote first.